Hours of Dance

[balletmum13]

Hi everyone,

 

As you may or may not know my dd is 14 and is auditioning for year 10 entry at both Tring and Elmhurst.

 

What amount of ballet and other styles are recommended for this age?

 

She currently does over 8.5 hours of ballet (both free work and syllabus) as well as 2 hours of pointe, 2.5 hours of modern, 1 hour of tap, 1 hour of stretch class, 1 hour of street dance (required in her dance school for performance opportunities), 1 hour of jazz and 1 hour of pilates.

 

She also does a 4 hour performing arts class.

 

In addition to this she practices at home at least 0.5 hours 7 days per week (totalling 3.5 hours).

 

In your opinion is this too much, too little or just right?

 

She insists that she does far less than others her age but I am not too sure.

 

Many thanks,

 

BM13

[sarahw]

Ballet mum 13 - that certainly is an impressive amount for non vocational! I would say it's not too little - it's hard to juggle it all at home with school work, travelling etc. If she and you are coping then continue. If you needed to drop maybe the performing arts class? Is it musical theatre?

Good luck!!

[Jan McNulty]

Hello BM13,

 

We have had a number of threads on similar topics.  I did a search on "hours of dance" and came up with these plus lots more general threads.  They may contain useful advice for you.

 

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/10193-over-training/?hl=%26quot%3Bhours+of+dance%26quot%3B#entry136831

 

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/10322-advice/?hl=%26quot%3Bhours+of+dance%26quot%3B#entry140907

 

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/13186-how-many-hours-of-dance/?hl=%22hours+of+dance%22

 

http://www.balletcoforum.com/index.php?/topic/13443-hours-in-the-studio/?hl=%26quot%3Bhours+of+dance%26quot%3B#entry184715

[balletmum13]

Thank you Janet. And yes, the performing arts class has 1 hour of musical theatre dance (a dance to whatever song they are currently learning and a different one too), and then singing and drama. They perform these at various festivals and performances.

[annaliesey]

If it helps, some of the CAT schemes had a benchmark of 13 hrs at age 13, 14 at 14, 12 at 12 etc

 

There wasn't too much weight out on this but they would review with parents and dancers if a lot more or a lot less than this

 

On that basis, I guess you're in the right ball park but maybe your dd feels she needs a bit more of something and could handle more without being disadvantaged too much socially or academically or risks to physical health .... this is only from what I've spoken with other parents and tutors about so don't take my word for it

[balletmum13]

If it helps, some of the CAT schemes had a benchmark of 13 hrs at age 13, 14 at 14, 12 at 12 etc

 

There wasn't too much weight out on this but they would review with parents and dancers if a lot more or a lot less than this

 

On that basis, I guess you're in the right ball park but maybe your dd feels she needs a bit more of something and could handle more without being disadvantaged too much socially or academically or risks to physical health .... this is only from what I've spoken with other parents and tutors about so don't take my word for it

That is interesting to know. Is the 14 hours just for ballet?

[taxi4ballet]

That is interesting to know. Is the 14 hours just for ballet?

Total of hours of dance overall probably, with a large chunk of ballet within that.

 

I'd say your dd is doing plenty, when are her auditions? 

[balletmum13]

Total of hours of dance overall probably, with a large chunk of ballet within that.

 

I'd say your dd is doing plenty, when are her auditions?

They are in January.

[taxi4ballet]

In that case it would be good if she can keep ticking over during the Christmas holidays if she can, and when classes start again, take it steady for a few days and don't overdo it. Going back into full-on dance training after a break is prime-time injury territory!!

 

Best of luck for the auditions

[balletmum13]

In that case it would be good if she can keep ticking over during the Christmas holidays if she can, and when classes start again, take it steady for a few days and don't overdo it. Going back into full-on dance training after a break is prime-time injury territory!!

 

Best of luck for the auditions

She actually hasn't been dancing for 5/6 weeks due to torn ligaments but is due to begin physio and dance this weeks and build up strength over christmas.

[BumbleBallerina]

At 14 I did 9 is hours of ballet a week 1 and a half hours contemporary 1 hour modern and 45 minutes of pilates.And also 2 hours of school dance a week. The hours seem like a good amount and very impressive for non vocational. If you are worried I was advised by teachers to try and do aerobic classes and general fitness classes as well if that helps at all.

[taxi4ballet]

She actually hasn't been dancing for 5/6 weeks due to torn ligaments but is due to begin physio and dance this weeks and build up strength over christmas.

Oh my goodness, so sorry about that, really hope she recovers well enough to do the auditions. If the schools are aware that she is injured (and they do need to know - it is pretty common after all, and won't count against you) then they might be able to re-schedule, or at least take her lack of strength and fitness into consideration during the audition. 

 

When she starts again, maybe do ballet, jazz and pilates, and drop absolutely everything else for the time being. She won't need pointe in the prelims for Tring or Elmhurst, so that isn't a worry. 

 

I've heard that floor barre classes are good for people recovering from injury.

[annaliesey]

That is interesting to know. Is the 14 hours just for ballet?

No it was total dance time they referred to with the concern being around over training mostly

[tropicmama]

Sorry to barge in on this thread but wasn't sure if my question would warrant a whole new thread but I've always wondered how your DDs and DSs (or you) manage to accumulate quite a lot of hours doing ballet within a week.  We constantly run into this issue as most schools in our area only offer one 45-minute or one 1 hour ballet class per week.  And whilst I know it is often frowned upon to attend more than one dance school, we cannot see a way around this if DD wants to do more hours of ballet a week. 

[Colman]

Do grades above and below and try and find an associates programme or similar - if they're offering curriculum classes past grade 1(?) they pretty much have to be offering more than one class a week - and if they're not, they're hardly in a position to complain about people attending classes with other teachers! (Our 8yr old is 2 x 1hr own grade, 1 x 1hr grade below, 3hr associates, 1hr tap (different school), 1hr jazz, 1/2hr demi-pointe/strengthening for 8.5 hrs, maxed out for his age. I get in up to 3.5 hrs by doing 1hr adult curriculum, 1hr adult open, 1hr adult many grades above and 1/2hr demi-pointe strengthening with the kids.)

Edited December 14, 2016 by Colman

[balletbean]

Please move to another thread if this post isn't quite in the right place:  

 

Just still on the subject of the 14/15/16 year olds (yr 10/11 at school) of those not at a Vocational School yet.

 

With such a demand at Vocational Schools for 6th Form entry, how many auditions will they attend? When, as parents do you sit down with your child and have 'the talk' , ie, auditions are not going as planned or for financial reasons (eek, dislike that thought entirely) ?

 

Has anyone got some really useful info/experience if they have entered vocational schools for the first time at 6th form level? 

 

A levels or not? Any regrets not taking them or were successful in obtaining their A levels AND maintained their training at Vocational Schools, some appear to offer A levels some don't!

 

Any experience from those that attended Conservatoire of Scotland or other establishments on a Modern Ballet programme after completing their studies (A levels) at their academic schools, incl those outside the UK similar to a Uni entry? 

 

Do you have a Plan B in place? For multiple reasons, the obvious one being injury but also illness which might put a halt on career their choice. or again that horrible £££ reasons!

 

Just trying to gain as much knowledge about the whole training programme available out there. 

 

Thank you 

 

PS Oh, the last, when at a vocational school what are the extra expenses (£ guideline) do we as parents have to factor in that aren't incl on a prospectus. ie uniform, shoes, costumes, theatre trips. exams or anything that I haven't even thought of over and above the general living costs that you expect for students at any college/uni?  Can't seem to find any useful info . 

 

Thanks again  

Edited December 14, 2016 by balletbean

[Anon2]

At Elmhurst expect to pay for dance wear, so leotards, flamenco skirt, jazz pants, tights and shoes. Shoe wise pointe, flatties, soft blocks, jazz and flamenco. Can't find a price list for any of these at moment but leotards I think around £35 mark. At times will need body or a specific leotard for a performance. Show make up.

At least one theatre trip per term, usually BRB.

Own expenses to watch class, shows. Travel and possibly hotel. In summer the theatre tickets plus friends membership if you want to watch some events like solo competition.

House funds roughly £30/year in sixth form.

Graduation photo shot - upwards of £200.

Medical insurance plus the excess. Sports massage costs - not covered by insurance. Taxi to and from medical appointments if ill when GP not on site - inevitable.

Travel and competition entry costs.

Exam fees for A levels. And subject specific trips to theatre etc.

General living costs of being a teenager away from home!

[hfbrew]

Not sure that this will help as it's some years since ds trained and graduated.

 

But he always had plan b in mind which is why he chose Tring where he got 3 good A levels on top of the excellent GCSEs gained from WL. He also got his level 6 diploma.So now he has retired from dancing he was pleasantly surprised to find himself well qualified for his current job without having to fund more education.

 

I do of course realise that ds was very lucky as he was offered all sorts of funding from several establishments, most people don't get the choices he had. At the time it wasn't clear whether his choice was right for him but now he is extremely glad that he thought so far ahead.

 

For the here and now, when looking at costs, for girls you must factor in Pointe shoes and Tutus depending on where you are training. And yes for all students there will be trips, insurances and competition/ exam costs. Again varies from one establishment to another.

[Anon2]

Oh yes had forgotten the tutu!

Leotards change colour each year for most schools I believe.

[BlueLou]

 

 

Just still on the subject of the 14/15/16 year olds (yr 10/11 at school) of those not at a Vocational School yet.

 

With such a demand at Vocational Schools for 6th Form entry, how many auditions will they attend? When, as parents do you sit down with your child and have 'the talk' , ie, auditions are not going as planned or for financial reasons (eek, dislike that thought entirely) ?

 

A levels or not? Any regrets not taking them or were successful in obtaining their A levels AND maintained their training at Vocational Schools, some appear to offer A levels some don't!

 

Do you have a Plan B in place? For multiple reasons, the obvious one being injury but also illness which might put a halt on career their choice. or again that horrible £££ reasons!

 

 

All things much discussed in our house as we are at the same stage as you Balletbean. Dd has 2 ‘dream schools’ so it looks likely that we will only apply to 3 or 4 schools for entry at age 16. If she’s successful then it was meant to be, and if not it can wait a couple of years! One of her ‘dream schools’ seems to take more at 18 than at 16 anyway, so we decided that if she didn’t get in at 16 it would be better to wait a couple of years and do some A levels and try again at 18, rather than settling for a dance school that she’s not so keen on at 16. Of course, I understand that a lot of dancers change their mind on what is their ‘dream school’ when they visit for auditions, hence why we’ll apply for 3 or 4 rather than just the 2. The extra 1 or 2 that we’ll apply for are also a much discussed topic - see my previous thread on possibilities! 

[2dancersmum]

6th form costs will vary considerably from school to school. DD went to Hammond and gained 2 A levels as well as her level 6 diploma. No fees for A levels or for RAD/ISTD classes, although entry free for dance exams with RAD/ISTD obviously had to be paid. Photos in graduate year was headshots only, no charge for the shoot, just any photos you bought.

 

Standard costs for uniform, pointe shoes, insurances, trips etc,although not tied to a specific school shop so you could source items of uniform yourself.

 

Balletbean - my DD went at 16 and always wanted still do A levels. Her Plan B was to do A levels first and then audition at 18 for diploma and degree courses. She knew accepting a place was always going to be dependent on also obtaining funding - that chat we had to have with her.

 

Tropicmama - how many hours and classes a week your DD does also depends on the age of your child obviously. DDs school was small and only offered 1 x 45 min class a week up to grade 2 (RAD). This increased to 2 x 45 mins per grade from grade 3 upwards, with 2 x 45 mins of vocational grades added in alongside standard grades from grade 4. DD also had 1 x 45 mins of jazz each week, increasing to either 2 x 45 mins or 1 x 1.5 hour class of jazz from intermediate level. She also had 1 x 45 mins class of non syllabus work each week, from grade 1 upwards. So my DD never managed the hours that many people on this forum talk about. She did the vocational grade below hers to give her some extra hours to increase her strength (no class above her level) DD did associates to boost her hours, workshops and a summer school. It was not until she reached adv 1 that we added in a 2nd school - giving her an extra 5 hours a week. It was an issue for us financially and timewise - no option but for me to drive her - over an hour each way and with other children to consider. What I am trying to say is that in my opinion it is the standard of training/the quality of the teaching, that is more important than the number of hours achieved.

[balletbean]

Just adding on to my last post about additional expenses

 

How many pointe shoes on average do the girls get through per term at Vocational Schools? 

 

Do the schools arrange fitting/supply etc then send you the bill or pupils just pay there and then?  Trying to work out how to keep up with the demand if not arranged 'in house'!

 

Sounds simple but pointe shoes aren't like buying yet another leotard or tights etc

 

Thank you

Edited December 14, 2016 by balletbean

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I'm interested in the opposite scenario. Someone who has gone from vocational to non vocational age 16 & managed to combine A levels with preparing for auditions at age 18.

[tropicmama]

2dancersmum, my DD is 7 and currently does 1.25 hours within the week (this is 2 ISTD ballet grades, one half an hour the other 45 minutes) and 2 hours on Saturdays (1 hour RAD grade ballet and 1 non-syllabus class).  In addition, she also does half an hour each of tap and modern once a week, and 45 minutes of street dance.  She is passionate about ballet and although I might be biased, I do think she is quite the natural and more importantly, one can obviously see the spark in her eyes when she is dancing.  She did audition for Tring's CBA but got a no (but it would appear she got the "nicer" no letter, the one acknowledging that her dancing is of a good standard with key focus areas to work on and a suggestion to audition again in May) and is still quite sensitive about the topic and the fact that she can't have ballet on Sundays. Looking at the hours that some 8 year olds do on this forum, she appears to be nowhere near the hours others are doing and I am worried this might disadvantage her once she starts applying for associate schemes that are from 8 years old.

Tropicmama - how many hours and classes a week your DD does also depends on the age of your child obviously. DDs school was small and only offered 1 x 45 min class a week up to grade 2 (RAD). This increased to 2 x 45 mins per grade from grade 3 upwards, with 2 x 45 mins of vocational grades added in alongside standard grades from grade 4. DD also had 1 x 45 mins of jazz each week, increasing to either 2 x 45 mins or 1 x 1.5 hour class of jazz from intermediate level. She also had 1 x 45 mins class of non syllabus work each week, from grade 1 upwards. So my DD never managed the hours that many people on this forum talk about. She did the vocational grade below hers to give her some extra hours to increase her strength (no class above her level) DD did associates to boost her hours, workshops and a summer school. It was not until she reached adv 1 that we added in a 2nd school - giving her an extra 5 hours a week. It was an issue for us financially and timewise - no option but for me to drive her - over an hour each way and with other children to consider. What I am trying to say is that in my opinion it is the standard of training/the quality of the teaching, that is more important than the number of hours achieved.

[All4dancers]

Just adding on to my last post about additional expenses

 

How many pointe shoes on average do the girls get through per term at Vocational Schools? 

 

Do the schools arrange fitting/supply etc then send you the bill or pupils just pay there and then?  Trying to work out how to keep up with the demand if not arranged 'in house'!

 

Sounds simple but pointe shoes aren't like buying yet another leotard or tights etc

 

Thank you

At Ballet West, it's up to the girls to order their own pointe shoes as and when needed. Usually, by this age they have a preferred brand and their feet have stopped growing so they do not need regular fittings. As for how many they get through, well I don't think there is an average as such as it depends on the dancer, their feet and the type of shoe they use. For example my dd wears Gaynors so they last a considerably longer time than some other brands - she went with a new pair in September and was still wearing them after half term and that was with very heavy use, but I think if she hadn't been injured they would have probably died by now.

[sarahw]

At Hammond Stardust shop come every Monday which is handy. If on an MDS you are theoretically tied to them but it's flexible if you ask. Others can buy anywhere.

[sarahw]

Tropic mama your dd is doing plenty for her age I would say. My dd got into RBS JAS on 2x30 min ballet lessons per week plus 30 min modern and tap and 30 min festival private when she did a mix of styles. She was Y4 age 8.

Edited December 14, 2016 by sarahw

[sarahw]

There is a risk of doing too much at this age I think. It takes the fun away and also risks injury.... But as your dd seems so happy you probably have it about right.

[margarite]

My DD got into YDA associates this year aged 9 - in the preceding year she only had between 3-4 hours of dance a week. Associate schemes are usually looking for potential rather than a polished performer I've always been told? I bought her the Rad DVDs for when she got the urge to dance at home

Edited December 14, 2016 by margarite

[tropicmama]

There is a risk of doing too much at this age I think. It takes the fun away and also risks injury.... But as your dd seems so happy you probably have it about right.

 

Thank you sarahw, you have made me feel much better.  I actually think she is doing quite a lot but as she seems so happy, I do not regret the time and money spent on her dance.  I do think it is quite strange to be that enthusiastic about something at age 7, especially compared to the others in her class.  I am always scared that she will burn out or grow tired of it, but at the moment, there is no sign of stopping my little firecracker (and she doesn't seem to be showing signs of slowing down - quite the opposite).  She herself knows that more opportunities will open once she turns 8.  I haven't got the heart to tell her that I'm pretty sure she misses next year's cut off as the couple of associate schemes we looked at says DCs should be 8 by end of August.  She doesn't turn 8 until mid-September.  She might have to wait for the 2018 cycle.  In the meantime, we found a scheme that is from 7.  Submitted the form and paid the fee and still haven't heard back - I am paranoid it was the photo we sent, as it was taken at home using my phone.  After reading another thread on this forum, perhaps I should have taken it at her dance class, with the teacher on hand to assist with the pose!

[tropicmama]

My DD got into YDA associates this year aged 9 - in the preceding year she only had between 3-4 hours of dance a week. Associate schemes are usually looking for potential rather than a polished performer I've always been told? I bought her the Rad DVDs for when she got the urge to dance at home

 That's brilliant margarite!  I was actually looking at the RAD DVDs the other day as my DD was on my case about not having dance classes over the holidays.  She has taken to searching YouTube for the RAD dances/exercises - although I always warn her about trying to attempt other ballet exercises that she hasn't done before in class.  I always keep an eye on her and she does only look for the ones from her class although the videos on YouTube seem to be poor quality.

[sarahw]

Tropicmama - which Associate scheme did you apply for? My dd was like yours at 7 also - we didn't know any others the same but she is at a small school.

[taxi4ballet]

 That's brilliant margarite!  I was actually looking at the RAD DVDs the other day as my DD was on my case about not having dance classes over the holidays.  She has taken to searching YouTube for the RAD dances/exercises - although I always warn her about trying to attempt other ballet exercises that she hasn't done before in class.  I always keep an eye on her and she does only look for the ones from her class although the videos on YouTube seem to be poor quality.

The ones on Youtube aren't great - they tend to be uploaded by individuals doing the exercises and aren't from the 'actual' RAD DVDs. They are fine for listening to the music to practise to - just don't copy the technique

 

If you decide to buy a DVD second-hand, then make sure it is the current syllabus as the RAD have changed a lot of them over the last few years.