RAD Vocational Exams at Vocational schools

[Petitallegro]

I know that some Vocational schools do RAD Vocational exams, alongside their own system of training, and some do not. I wondered why this is and what the pros/cons of each approach are? Also, roughly what age/year the various exams tend to be taken?

[Lisa O`Brien]

Can't help you with your question i'm afraid, but just wanted to welcome you to the Forum.

[Pas de Quatre]

I think the schools that do take RAD Vocational exams mainly do so to allow dancers to enter for the Phyllis Bedell and Adeline Genee competitions.  It tends to be Intermediate in Yr 9 and Adv 1 in Yr 11, with Adv 2 & Solo Seal in 6th form.  

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I can't answer for the schools that don't do them apart from the fact that I was talking to a parent and expressing the opinion that I was glad my dd was doing them as it would give her the pre-requisite to become a registered teacher later on if she so desired. This parent pointed out that just the fact that a child has trained at Royal who don't do them, is probably enough kudos in itself and they I believe have their own teaching qualification.

 

Doing the exams though (RAD & ISTD) does give some students access to certain competitions such as Phyllis Bedells, Genee & Janet Cram as well. 

 

As for when they are taken, well how long is a piece of string.

 

For students entering dd's school in Year 7 most start off with Inter Foundation.  Each year a small handful of students may enter having already passed this exam so they go straight into Intermediate.  Most children seem to take the exam towards the end of year 7, however some may not take it until Year 8.

 

If a student enters Year 8 and above having not done IF they may be allowed to skip this grade and go straight into Intermediate.  Some took the exam in year 8, some in Year 9.  New students entering in Year 10 have to do Intermediate before being able to join the Advanced 1 class as per RAD rules.  DD tells me that it is the aim for everyone to have taken Advanced 1 by the end of Year 11, though some will be on Advanced 2 and some may not take it whether through entering the school later, losing time through injury or whatever. (Please note that 14/15 year old girls are not always 100% accurate on their information!)

[Canary]

RAD Vocational exams give the dancer UCAS points, age limits can be found on the RAD website.

If you are paying money for training then Intermediate is the backbone your dancer should achieve (13)

Advanced 2 ( 32 fouettes) is demanding so many don't take it as you must get distinction in it to be able to enter the Genee.

 

But your dancer can still work towards the exams even if they don't have the facility to take them.

 

You can always tell an RAD trained dancer by their heads, it's gorgeous

[Jan McNulty]

Hello Ballerina S, welcome out of the lurking shadows!

[Petitallegro]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Very helpful! And for the welcome.

[Anon2]

Didn't RBS stop RAD exams when the syllabus changed? Always assumed it would be too much work for the teachers to have to learn the new syllabus on top of their other teaching commitments.

Elmhurst pupils and staff were involved in the development of the new syllabus. The RAD classes are recommended but not compulsory as an extra cost if not on MDS and taught outside main timetable

[sarahw]

My dd does RAD at vocational school and I consider it an important part of the 'Plan B'.

[BadBallerina]

I know RAD is taught at both Royal Conservatoire and Ballet West and I know first year students who have just taken or are about to take their Advanced One. Of course if you've not done an RAD exam you have to take Intermediate so some will be working both Intermediate just to get it done and Advanced One x

[junedancer]

We were under the impression that the teaching at vocational schools is more technical than the RAD vocational syllabus so I can see why some schools such as RBS don't bother with the exams - at the end of the day their pupils are likely to be judged on the school they attended as much as anything else.  Sorry this doesn't answer your question and I don't know which schools offer RAD Grades and Vocational but would be interested to hear from others on this.  The RAD are clear about minimum ages for exams that are obviously not flexible on this and they also have strong views on when you should start pointe, borne out by the minimum requirements for IF, but I am sure this is an area where vocational students have the advantage of being able to start earlier in a controlled environment.  Could it be that the RAD is not set-up to respond to those at vocational school?

[sarahw]

I would say vocational schools are sensibly paced in the introduction of pointe work and are not limited by age 11 for IF.I think all lower schools apart from RBS do RAD. I think it's a sensible insurance policy and also part of the post performing career planning - assuming they get a career!

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I agree. Children enter vocational school from year 7 onwards when they are 11 years old so are able to begin IF straight away though pointe is not always started in that first term.

 

The only issue is fitting in the classes to learn the syllabus. At dd's school the students receive 2 X 90 mins RAD classes per week but they are on consecutive days which is not ideal. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that at Elmhurst the RAD classes at on Saturdays.

 

I too regard it as an important part of Plan B.

[Karen]

Yes pictures, Elmhurst said at recent audition that RAD classes would be on Saturdays, but weren't sure what would happen if you had completed Adv 2 before starting there (bearing in mind the age minimum for solo seal).

[Picturesinthefirelight]

The RAD website says Solo Seal minimum age is 15, the same as Adv 2. Is that incorrect/out of date?

[taxi4ballet]

The RAD website says Solo Seal minimum age is 15, the same as Adv 2. Is that incorrect/out of date?

Not sure, but passing Adv2 with distinction at 15 and then doing Solo Seal the same year would be quite an achievement!

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Exactly!

[balletbean]

I can see there will come a time that Adv2 and Solo Seal will nearly become obsolete.  

 

BW definitely enter their students for the exams but any regular ballet studios (not Vocational schools) who follow the RAD syllabus will be losing their talented Ballet pupils at 16 for Voc Schools. Thus those pupils will have run out of term time to take these exams. Without a suitable amount of candidates each year RAD may have to change their policy.  

 

Unless Vocational schools worldwide are the ones that follow RAD syllabus. Making up for the shortfall in UK candidates and then making up most of the entries into the major competitions already mentioned. 

 

Hopefully that makes sense.  

[Legseleven]

DD's non-vocational studio enters students for Adv 2 fairly regularly, usually aged 17 or 18 although occasionally younger than that and quite often older, as university students and others. It seems clear that as expected the entries for the Advanced exams reduce level by level but Adv 2 is still being taken by non-vocational students.

[ParentTaxi]

ISTD not RAD, but DD and her cohort of about 5 'serious non-vocational' dancers will take Adv 1, at a rough guess, in c. 18 months time - DD will be 15, the others 16. If all remain at the dance school until 18, as is normal (its main output is to the post-18 dance colleges - LSC, Birds, Laine, performers etc al) then I suspect some or all will take Adv 2.

[ParentTaxi]

They'll have done Adv 2 Tap and Adv 1 Modern by the time they take Adv 1 ballet, so may well leave with the full set of Adv 2.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I can't find any local classes beyond Adv 1 at the moment. I suspect dd will stop RAD at that point anyway as ballet has never been her strongest dance form although she hopes to get beyond that in ISTD tap

Edited December 2, 2016 by Picturesinthefirelight

[balletbean]

I can't find any local classes beyond Adv 1 at the moment. I suspect dd will stop RAD at that point anyway as ballet has never been her strongest dance form although she hopes to get beyond that in ISTD tap

I can understand you frustration, I did not realise that you had to look in your local area for classes, I thought that your DC's current non vocational school would offer the lessons for the grades as and when reached. I had no idea that anyone had to 'shop' around. I have so much to learn. My DD must be in a fortunate position that her non vocational school adapt their timetable for the higher grades each exam season. Nothing is set in stone but changed to meet the needs and numbers of the pupils on the register for that year. At present there is a cluster of pupils studying Inter/Adv1 foundation. The timetable will again change after the exams have been taken. These higher grades hasn't occurred for quite a few years and may not happen again for some years due to the demographics of the pupils.

 

Good Luck on your search

[taxi4ballet]

Only a few non-vocational students get to Adv 2, so the vast majority of dance schools/teachers won't have much (if any) experience of teaching that level. Nor is it easy for the school to schedule enough advanced hours and classes in their weekly timetable, when there may only be the odd one or two students in the class. A lot of teenagers tend to stop dancing as much when they get to GCSEs and A-levels too, which further reduces the numbers. Which is probably why it is so hard to find schools that offer Adv 2.

Edited December 2, 2016 by taxi4ballet

[balletbean]

Only a few non-vocational students get to Adv 2, so the vast majority of dance schools/teachers won't have much (if any) experience of teaching that level. Nor is it easy for the school to schedule enough advanced hours and classes in their weekly timetable, when there may only be the odd one or two students in the class. A lot of teenagers tend to stop dancing as much when they get to GCSEs and A-levels too, which further reduces the numbers. Which is probably why it is so hard to find schools that offer Adv 2.

I had no idea, I honestly thought each school would match the needs of their pupils. Something new learnt today that's for sure. 

[Picturesinthefirelight]

We are looking ahead as she is currently studying Adv 1 at Vocational School but will leave her current school when she is 16 after her GCSE's.

 

She does not want to go away to college at 16 but wants to apply for MT courses aged 18 so will return to a normal school for those two years.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Picturesinthefirelight

[ParentTaxi]

DD's current school doesn't have Adv 2 ballet on the timetable at the moment (though it does for the other disciplines, plus post Adv 2 for Tap, because it is much more common to get through all the grades in Tap by 15 - 17), because of the demographics of the current cohort. DD's peers will probably be the first to do it for some years - but there are enough of them to make it worthwhile unless more than usual leave over the coming 3-4 years. Students without Adv 2 - or in some cases not taken, though learned, Adv 1 - ballet have successfully gone on to the major post 18 dance colleges from the school every year, though.

 

The other 'good' local school, much larger than ours, has Adv 2 (ISTD) as a much more routine fixture on its timetable, simply because their larger numbers mean that flow through to the higher grades of at least some students tends to average out year on year.

[balletbean]

DD's current school doesn't have Adv 2 ballet on the timetable at the moment (though it does for the other disciplines, plus post Adv 2 for Tap, because it is much more common to get through all the grades in Tap by 15 - 17), because of the demographics of the current cohort. DD's peers will probably be the first to do it for some years - but there are enough of them to make it worthwhile unless more than usual leave over the coming 3-4 years. Students without Adv 2 - or in some cases not taken, though learned, Adv 1 - ballet have successfully gone on to the major post 18 dance colleges from the school every year, though.

 

The other 'good' local school, much larger than ours, has Adv 2 (ISTD) as a much more routine fixture on its timetable, simply because their larger numbers mean that flow through to the higher grades of at least some students tends to average out year on year.

Just out of interest, When you say 'larger numbers' what sort of numbers are you referring to? Thank you

[Canary]

If you look at the individual qualifications of teachers in vocational schools they often are not qualified to teach RAD, so it's offered as an extra and parents pay for a RAD teacher to come in especially.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Canary

[sarahw]

It's included in fees at Hammond.

[Harwel]

It's included in fees at Hammond.

As it is at Tring - just one Saturday class for RAD. Actually thinking about it, it's free for MDS pupils who are obliged to attend. Non MDS pupils have to pay.

 

As for small non vocational schools teaching up to advanced 2. My mum runs a small school and has just had one girl preparing for the exam on 2 private lessons a a week. She is now away at vocational school and mum says she is not likely to have another student that level again. But she will accommodate those students she has as she is thrilled to get students to the highest levels.

[balletbean]

 But she will accommodate those students she has as she is thrilled to get students to the highest levels.

That is so lovely to hear, great for your mum as well as the pupil. Brilliant advertisement for her Ballet School 

[Pups_mum]

My DD's old teacher will also teach up to advanced 2 if a pupil wants. In fact my DD was on her own after intermediate and did her advanced foundation and advanced 1 on private lessons and the intensive pre exam courses at RAD HQ. Had she not gone away to school this year I imagine she would have done advanced 2 on the same basis. It's not ideal, and DD would have loved to have been in a class of like minded students, but where we live that's simply not possible. From the financial perspective it of course cost me more and earned her teacher less than if there had been a full class, so not ideal for anyone. But the best any of us could do. I'm sure there are lots of pupils round the country who are working hard to achieve the higher grades in less than perfect circumstances, and lots of non vocational teachers who are doing their best to help them achieve their potential, despite the practical and financial implications. Hats off to all the excellent local dance teachers who support/have supported our DCs along the way!