Stirrups36 Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 http://dailym.ai/2bUnPnx Wow. Just. Wow. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Oh my gosh! What on earth would the police have made of such a silly squabble!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 The school has plenty of publicity now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 I feel quite sorry for this teacher. If the parent wanted more frequent or alternative watching opportunities then it's up to them to seek a school that provides that before they sign up. You can't reasonably expect any organisation to change how it works just because you feel like it. He sounds like trouble! Good on her for standing her ground and not being bullied. But I have to say that I much prefer schools where there is more of an open door policy and you can get a general idea of how things are going even if not actually watching So watch out Cheltenham teachers .. He might be looking for a new school 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alison Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 I was wondering if either of them was going to get charged with wasting police time ... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherbert Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 I feel quite sorry for this teacher. If the parent wanted more frequent or alternative watching opportunities then it's up to them to seek a school that provides that before they sign up. You can't reasonably expect any organisation to change how it works just because you feel like it. He sounds like trouble! Good on her for standing her ground and not being bullied. But I have to say that I much prefer schools where there is more of an open door policy and you can get a general idea of how things are going even if not actually watching So watch out Cheltenham teachers .. He might be looking for a new school I think you should hold back from hanging this chap out to dry. The Telegraph had the full transcript of the email exchange (never trust DM), his emails seemed polite and balanced. Unless you are absolutely sure of the circumstances you would be wise not to further abuse the guy. But why either side thought a good idea to run to the press i don't know. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 However provoked I still think you have to be really careful about what you actually put into print So I think the teacher was unwise to say some of the things she did in the email.....even if she thought them!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melody Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 It's amazing that this sort of thing seems to keep happening - a manageable dispute escalating to the point where police are being called in and people are going to the press. At least in the UK it's unlikely that an irate parent or teacher would decide to settle things with a gun, but that seems to be the answer to increasingly trivial problems over here. I don't know whether it's social media or lack of good writing skills or too much reality TV or what, but there seems to be a lot less tolerance and considerate behaviour than in the past. And now I sound like the stereotypical old woman complaining about how things were so much better 100 years ago... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara in NZ Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 From what I have observed, it is part of the 'customer is always right culture' we have now where if people pay for a service, they seem to expect certain rights in return. We had a difficult few weeks recently when a new teacher said she didn't want parents watching their Saturday class (which is at a different venue where you can see through large windows from the corridor). Usually we sit quietly, and watch from the other side of the corridor so it seems like we are waiting for them rather than watching with noses pressed to the window! The new teacher had heard about one mother, who is a dance teacher, who had interrupted a class a few weeks earlier to tell the previous teacher that her daughter wasn't being corrected in pirouettes... so we found we were banned from even entering the corridor! The mother withdrew her child from that class in protest... eventually we have been allowed back into the corridor, with strict instructions that no class is to be interrupted and no videoing may take place (which was obvious to most of us). The dust is settling slowly, but it seemed so unnecessary! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Wall Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 (edited) Soon I think they'll be calling him 'Father Rose'!! Edited September 2, 2016 by Bruce Wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mummy twinkle toes Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 The teacher could have had a discussion about progress with him. She could have kept Gabrielle for 10 minutes and show her Dad. The Dad may not understand that ballet requires repetition of movements. Both over-reacted. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Link to Telegraph article on the subject as mentioned by Sherbert above: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/furious-row-erupts-over-girls-ballet-lessons-as-dad-and-dance-sc/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 When my niece was doing some martial arts as a youngster one school let you watch one lesson and that was it, the other let you in to watch for the last 10 minutes of each lesson. I think we all accepted that. Having parents, friends, others watching can be distracting and disruptive. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Our local school allows parents to watch classes during the last week of term. According to the Telegraph article, the Father hadn't seen his daughter dance in the 20 months since she started classes, and apparently couldn't make the next watching week because of a "pre-booked family holiday". Where had he been for the preceding 17 months/4 terms? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherbert Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Link to Telegraph article on the subject as mentioned by Sherbert above: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/01/furious-row-erupts-over-girls-ballet-lessons-as-dad-and-dance-sc/ This is a different article, there was one with the full email exchange. However, not sure much to be gained from adding to the already too much public disclosure of this pointless bust up! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I think there is probably more to this story than meets the eye. Things that jumped out to me were the fact that the girls mother had been to watch classes - it was only the father that had not. And if parents watching classes are at the end of every term and he last watched in December - what happened to Easter and Summer end of terms? It also states that the teacher went to the police after he was contacting her parents - for harassing them and causing them distress. What on earth have her parents to do with it? The teacher is also actually the Principal of the school and has several teachers working for her. The Principal may well be responding on official school policy after one of her staff has been approached. I do know of this school and it is perhaps worth noting that the school has several venues within Cheltenham, not just one base - particularly for the younger children . And I agree that parents watching whenever they want can be very disruptive - especially in smaller venues for the little children that this school uses. I happen to know also that this school did a show in the summer term which was presumably another chance to watch them perform? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Did the man contact the Principal's parents? Or other parents at the school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I think you should hold back from hanging this chap out to dry. The Telegraph had the full transcript of the email exchange (never trust DM), his emails seemed polite and balanced. Unless you are absolutely sure of the circumstances you would be wise not to further abuse the guy. But why either side thought a good idea to run to the press i don't know. I'm not abusing the guy I'm sure there are aspects to the story the papers haven't communicated but the principle is there. I found this interesting actually in more of a context of contract law and marketing If a supplier offers to provide services in a certain way and with certain conditions then the customer has entered into that contract accepting those terms. I just think the power of social media and the opportunity to leave a bad review because you didn't like contract terms is something teachers need to be wary of. The teacher seemed to not respond in a way a lot of consumers might expect ie; customer always right. I think that made a tricky situation more emotional. But I'm still wondering how this could be classed as harassment on either side as far as reporting to the police goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I think there is probably more to this story than meets the eye. Things that jumped out to me were the fact that the girls mother had been to watch classes - it was only the father that had not. And if parents watching classes are at the end of every term and he last watched in December - what happened to Easter and Summer end of terms? It also states that the teacher went to the police after he was contacting her parents - for harassing them and causing them distress. What on earth have her parents to do with it? The teacher is also actually the Principal of the school and has several teachers working for her. The Principal may well be responding on official school policy after one of her staff has been approached. I do know of this school and it is perhaps worth noting that the school has several venues within Cheltenham, not just one base - particularly for the younger children . And I agree that parents watching whenever they want can be very disruptive - especially in smaller venues for the little children that this school uses. I happen to know also that this school did a show in the summer term which was presumably another chance to watch them perform? Ah that makes a bit more sense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dramascientist Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 And in the end the child is 4 years old! At that age the children have no technique, they are simply learning how to balance and point their toes. This is again a problem with you tube and other social media that people watch that very rare child who shows amazing ability and talent at 4 years old and people think this is what every 4 year old can do. We all know it takes years and years of training to see real technique! It also shows how dangerous the Internet can be, people are never that rude to each other face to face but in an email it's easy to call people names and read into things. Crazy! 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Bit difficult to defend the teacher calling him a 'stupid, stupid' man and alleging that this was in the heat of the moment - well, no it wasn't if she chose to press 'send' on the email. And to say that she will spread the word that the family is trouble to other dance schools, having thrown her out of her own, is appalling. Also a bit difficult to defend him posting bad reviews of the school because the teacher didn't agree to his request. Six of one and half a dozen of the other, as my grandmother would have said! They both need to grow up and act like mature adults. It's a pity that the little girl in the middle of it all is the one who is not allowed to return to her dance school and whose erstwhile teacher is apparently going to try to ensure that no other dance school accepts her. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTu Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I know things are rarely as black & white as what you read in the papers but I have to sympathise with the dance teacher. She clearly has specific viewing days for parents to attend & enjoy. I think when you sign your child up to any activity you have to accept there are certain terms to which you must abide. I can only imagine if that dance teacher were to allow parents in on weeks that suited them rather than a termly set week how distracting that would be both to the teacher & to the children, especially keeping in mind that the child in question is just 4. I know that there are times when circumstances beyond our control which mean that we cannot attend a viewing class but I think most parents just accept that & look forward to the next. Maybe have a quick word with the teacher to ensure they are happy with your child's progress but I don't think any teacher I know would allow for a parent to attend a different class to watch. From reading through some of the comments it does sound like there were multiple opportunities to watch at this school too. I'm also not sure what the father expected to see in terms of progress at home too as the child is only 4 & classes would still be quite creative. Speaking as a non dancing parent sometimes, particularly when they are so young, your expectations of what you think they will be learning are somewhat unrealistic. Part of me struggles to see how this ever became a police matter & whilst I think the dance teacher could have worded emails more appropriately we don't know the full details from both sides. One thing that does seem clear though is that the parent left terrible reviews of the dance school which nowadays can be done far too easily with little thought to the impact it could have on someone's livelihood. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAIRBELLES Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 As with a lot of stories nowadays I fail to see how this is "news". The police are obliged to investigate if the person reporting the "crime" has used words that indicated harassment , alarm or distress. Some of this story could fall within the realms of section 5(1) of the Public Order Act 1986. I only know this as my ex -husband called the police because her step -dad posted her some Parma violet sweets through his front door . Crazy!!!!! But the police had to follow it up as he said we were harassing him ! Now where did I put that number for The Telegraph 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 From what I have read the family had booked a holiday to Poland which clashed every time it was watching day. Maybe the family are Polish and have to go home on those dates. Imagine if a parent could not attend a school parents evening due to reasonable other comitments. Would it be reasonable for the school to say tough you had your chance or would we expect the teacher to make an appointment that would accommodate both of them. I think the teacher was unreasonable. The father wasn't asking to attend every lesson, just the one. Most parents would understand that this was mitigating circumstances. At the end of the day he is paying for a service and unless the teacher had something to hide and isn't as good as she claims then there shouldn't have been an issue with letting him watch quietly and discretely at the back. The father wasn't abusive in his emails but actually I thought very polite in his first one. Sadly the teacher was very abusive. I don't know this school or family at all but to my mind very weird almost dramatic behaviour from the teacher. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I'm not taking sides on this but we do not know if anything was "said" that could have led to the teacher snapping. Also, in print he could have come across as a lot more articulate and reasonable than in person. I have known many instances throughout my career where people were brilliant in print and not in person and, of course, vice versa. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I agree there may well be more to this than is reported. However two things strike me. One is the amount of money being spent a term for a 4 year old's classes. Perhaps prices are very high in that area? The other is the lack of flexibility on the teacher's side. Like many schools I normally do a watching week at the end of term. However, there are times when parents can't make it - in particular those whose children go to private schools which tend to break up earlier, and those who have come from abroad and may need to return for family reasons/religious celebrations. So I try to be flexible and find another opportunity even if it is at the beginning of the following term If this is really going to disrupt lesson plans by having someone there the whole time, then I suggest just coming in for the last 10 minutes. I also allow this for visiting grandparents who may have come from some distance for an annual visit. It is really only a case of being human! 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 From what I have read the family had booked a holiday to Poland which clashed every time it was watching day. Maybe the family are Polish and have to go home on them dates. Imagine if a parent could not attend a school parents evening due to reasonable other comitments. Would it be reasonable for the school to say tough you had your chance or would we expect the teacher to make an appointment that would accommodate both of them. I think the teacher was unreasonable. The father wasn't asking to attend every lesson, just the one. Most parents would understand that this was mitigating circumstances. At the end of the day he is paying for a service and unless the teacher had something to hide and isn't as good as she claims then there shouldn't have been an issue with letting him watch quietly and discretely at the back. The father wasn't abusive in his emails but actually I thought very polite in his first one. Sadly the teacher was very abusive. I don't know this school or family at all but to my mind very weird almost dramatic behaviour from the teacher. Judging by the way certain newspapers have a habit of putting considerable 'spin' on the smallest of non-stories, it's highly unlikely that we would be able to tell whether either or both of them had been unreasonable. It is also pretty unlikely that either protagonist would have told the newspapers everything, or that the papers would have printed an accurate account if they had! 'Abusive' is a bit of a harsh term (and could be misinterpreted when used to describe a teacher) - maybe 'rude' would be a more appropriate word. The family hadn't been absent from the 'watching week' class on previous occasions due to some Polish holiday obligation though, as it appears the mother had been to watch their dd but the father hadn't. Most dads are absent from these things anyway, unless they are the one who regularly takes their dc to classes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 It seems to have been the family that contacted the press. Why? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Judging by the way certain newspapers have a habit of putting considerable 'spin' on the smallest of non-stories, it's highly unlikely that we would be able to tell whether either or both of them had been unreasonable. It is also pretty unlikely that either protagonist would have told the newspapers everything, or that the papers would have printed an accurate account if they had! 'Abusive' is a bit of a harsh term (and could be misinterpreted when used to describe a teacher) - maybe 'rude' would be a more appropriate word. The family hadn't been absent from the 'watching week' class on previous occasions due to some Polish holiday obligation though, as it appears the mother had been to watch their dd but the father hadn't. Most dads are absent from these things anyway, unless they are the one who regularly takes their dc to classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherbert Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Perhaps enough gossiping now about a specific family and teacher? Albeit they seem to have decided to go public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Calling him a stupid little man and then threatening to get every other school in the area to turn this little girl away is more than rude as far as I am concerned and actually borders on defamation of character. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Quite possibly and I see where you are coming from, but the word 'abuse' when used in connection with the behaviour of a teacher could lead to unfortunate misunderstandings if people stumble on comments out of context, which it is quite possible to do when searching online. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Yes I see what you mean taxi ballet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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