Lower schools abroad

[Pointeyourtoes]

Dd's teacher has suggested we look at schools abroad. Has anyone got any information on any? Thanks

[Frogsmum]

I think there are a good few previous threads on this a while back: Dance Training Abroad & also Vocational Schools in the USA are two which I vaguely remember. I guess it depends on when you'd be looking  - post 16? or before then, as to which schools could be suitable. Hope this helps!

[aileen]

Why has your DD's teacher suggested this, Pointeyourtoes? Is it a matter of cost? And is it in addition to applying to schools in the UK?

[primrose]

My daughter trained at the Bolshoi in Moscow aged 16 years. They do have a lot of foreign younger international students. Personally I would not send my child abroad without me any younger than this but of course every child and family is different.

[Pointeyourtoes]

She got to finals for RBS but no further. Teacher mentioned Paris, Amsterdam and Hamburg but I'm not sure why those three and why not schools here.

[Vonrothbart]

Strange advice, I'd love to know why her teacher suggested it.

[Anna C]

To get finals for RBS is a great achievement in itself. Was this for a year 7 place? If so, personally I wouldn't be panicking just yet! Your dd can try again next year. Did she audition at any other lower schools?

 

As Primrose says, every family is different but unless your child is particularly independent - and bilingual - and you are considering relocating abroad, I can imagine going away to board at a lower school in the same country has enough difficulties, without living in a strange country.

[LinMM]

I think the age of the child makes all the difference and wouldn't be keen to send a pre 16 year old abroad myself even though I know some kids are very independent etc.

if applying abroad ....especially for a younger child ....I think I'd have to be VERY sure that what was offered there would be better than could be offered anywhere in UK etc.

 

Some schools abroad have a good reputation and are connected in a similar way to the RB to exceptionally good Companies .....although there is never a guarantee of getting into those Companies......I Think you mentioned Paris (POB) Amsterdam (Dutch Royal) and Hamburg .....though there is also Berlin which has a better reputation as a whole. There's also the Danish school in Copenhagen with its particular style.

As mentioned there are the famous schools in Russia like Vaganova and Perm and Bolshoi and several in America!!

 

The question is unless there is a VERY good reason to apply to a particular school abroad.....and sometimes there is.....for a particular type of training like Vaganova as an example.....then I personally would stick with it in UK at the moment especially if DD is young and under 14. She will still progress here if very keen.

However it is more unusual for a Dance teacher to advise abroad already if only just out of Junior school.....she must have some reason or other?

Edited April 4, 2016 by LinMM

[Pointeyourtoes]

She's going into year nine next year. Like I say, not sure why not UK but I know the teacher took the failure at RBS badly.

[Pas de Quatre]

Sorry, to get finals but not an actual place should hardly be considered failure and to my mind sounds like an over-reaction by the Teacher.  Did your dd also audition for Elmhurst or any of the other vocational schools or was it RBS only?  Does the Teacher feel she can't take your dd's training further - is it a very small school or is the Teacher either very young (inexperienced) or very old (thinking of retiring)?

[Guest]

The other point about going to schools in other countries pre-16 is that it can have a massive impact on their academic studies. Several of my colleagues with non-dancing children have turned down or delayed overseas postings for this reason.

[dramascientist]

Think carefully Pointytoes about schools abroad. My DD went to the National Ballet School abroad but only because we were living in the country and we were approached by a ballet teacher who taught at another school when we first moved here. DD had to learn another language and the first year was very tough and she was a day pupil so was not living in another country from us. DD did well but the academic program was very old fashioned and she suffered in the last couple of years because she is tall and the school still had very old fashioned ideas about height, body shape etc. I cannot fault the training but if you do make the decision to go abroad then be ready for a different culture as well as a difference in teaching styles.

 

Just go in with your eyes open and think carefully about what you want to know about the school and make sure you visit before you make the commitment.

 

Good luck

DRSC

[primrose]

If you want good classical training then I would look at YDA and Elmhurst. YDA being my first choice.

[Nicola Moriarty]

Tanz Zurich is also exceptional. It is run by Oliver Matz and his wife. I have seen them both teach and they are brilliant. Ivan Diev has moved there from ENB he is so good. 

[Tulip]

How do you and your daughter feel about training abroad pointyourtoes? If you are both interested in doing this then all I would suggest is do your research, which imbue you will. Best of luck, it won't do you any harm to just look.

[Pointeyourtoes]

Thanks tulip - I will, of course do proper research. I was just asking for anyone's experiences of the schools my dd's teacher had suggested looking at. I guess everyone views the uk schools differently and everyone's audition views are different too.

[sarahw]

Pointe your toes

I would agree that for lower school abroad is not an obvious choice. Your dd must be very talented to get WL finals. Consider auditioning for more UK schools next year. Good luck!

[CeliB]

My DS went abroad at 14 as he wanted Vaganova training, but to the USA so avoided the language problem. We did discover that the cultural and educational differences were probably more than we'd expected but not insurmountable. I don't think it was too early for him to leave home at all- he has maintained a strong bond with family and friends back home and gained some amazing experiences abroad, independence not the least of them... But then he has a particularly even and grounded character (I would never let my second son do the same thing- so it's a very personal evaluation).

He does now wish he had taken the plunge and gone to Russia (where he is at the moment) sooner (e.g. age 16), but of course hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it? And personally I suspect he wouldn't have coped with the change in language as well as having to manage education - he isn't particularly academic...

[Pointeyourtoes]

Thanks celib. Would you say that students could get picked up from summer schools like they sometimes do at RBS? Dd has been accepted on to Paris Opera SS .

[invisiblecircus]

Thanks celib. Would you say that students could get picked up from summer schools like they sometimes do at RBS? Dd has been accepted on to Paris Opera SS .

 

Some schools do this and other don't. I'm not sure about Paris Opera SS because it's fairly new. You could ask them.

[CeliB]

It is very common for SIs in the USA to recruit to the full time program (that's how DS got his scholarship to the Kirov in Washington). Often they specify that you cannot apply for the full time program unless you attend the SI. I don't have any experience of European schools I'm afraid (other than Vaganova for which DS was offered an audition on the strength of a recommendation to the Director, so nothing to do with a summer course...).

 

I agree with invisiblecircus, why not just ask them? Its a perfectly reasonable question! I had a feeling POB don't accept new students after a certain age but I may be mis-remembering....

[Sam]

As far as I know POB have never accepted SI students into full-time training. In fact 13yrs at entry is the maximum age( and if you meet the HT/WT criteria) unless there are special conditions. Once accepted to POB they insist on a 6-month trial stage before you are accepted onto the full-time training.Students are told at the end of each year if they move up a year, redouble, or leave.

In France the Conservatoire Nationales in Paris and Lyon start at 14/15 yrs, Marseille and Cannes start at 11yrs. All, except Lyon, have a partner school so school in morning and dance in afternoon, or vice versa. In Lyon, they expect you to home school, which is quite normal for sport students in France. 

[Dance*is*life]

I sent a 16 and a half year old boy student to train at Elmhurst.  His English was adequate and he was quite mature, but he still found it very difficult.  We had many a pep talk on three way skype (me, his Mum and the boy) to keep him going.  I know that children do go away to school at early ages, but honestly is it really necessary?  RBS is the hardest school to get in to in the UK, I suspect, and she got to Finals.  POB have accepted her to their SS.  You have a very talented daughter there.  I would let her exhaust all the other good vocational schools in the UK, before sending her abroad.

[DanceMomma]

I currently live in Texas and I haven't found full time training in the country that also offers full time education for my dd's age (10, 11 in July)

 

In the US most children at an elite level of training for anything are generally homeschooled. Overall I think it is a system that works well but it certainly isn't for everyone. Most places won't accept children to board until at least 14 but usually 16.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't exist I'm just saying that I haven't found any.

 

I think the training here is based on ability rather than age or year group. My dd was training with 10-14yr olds when she was 9. I know of a 14yr old training with 16-17yr olds and living in residence with them.

 

On top off that, the education curriculum is different and that can affect them when they return to the UK. Dd has been at the British international school just to keep her on the British curriculum so it would be easy for her to fit back into school on our return to the UK.

 

I know nothing about any other countries.

[2dancersmum]

I think I would echo the advice to look at all the vocational schools in the UK first, especially if RBS is the only one she has auditioned at.  I say this purely on the side of the academics as I am sure you want her to get good academic qualifications also.  In another English speaking country this may be possible, but in Europe it could be a huge undertaking and I am sure it would detract from her progression in dance if she was worried about another aspect of her daily life - academics, socialising, accommodation.  Not having a qualification recognised in this country might also be a problem if she had to withdraw from dance due to injury or if she decided at a later date that it was not the career she wanted.  I do know of dancers continuing right through to graduation who then seek a career in a different field.

[Pointeyourtoes]

It's not a case of sending her abroad it's a case of asking for information anyone might have about schools abroad. If we decide to go down that route then we would obviously research everything but I was just asking for anyone's direct experiences.

[Life]

Pointeyourtoes

Go for it I say

I'm looking at Paris opera,I know that most schools aboard caters for their country's education and they can continue there studies it's an online programme and they will need to do more work as they will also need to study the local language according to were you pick

I.e my daughter will have to learn French

But she can still do all her Gcse

Hope this helps

I think it's a good idea to look abroad good luck with everything

[CeliB]

Four years ago when DS was offered a full scholarship to a vocational school abroad I asked for opinions on this and on the USA equivalent board. My experience then was that UK parents seemed generally much more open to the idea of training abroad than parents in the USA (all of who seemed to think that if you lived in the UK surely you would go to RBS and why consider anything else). So I am surprised that the responses to your question have been more conservative than when I asked (probably just a different sample of responders!)...

 

I think the main question is WHY you would be considering training abroad and what you think it will give you (your DD) that you couldn't get from a school in the UK. In our case it was very clear- DS wanted Vaganova training. And by and large it has worked out positively.

 

I would note however

 

1. it has, overall, I think been much more expensive - even with scholarships costs of travel are prodigious unless you never go to visit, and that's really hard. I'm sure this is far worse for schools in the USA than in Europe but even so - eg we are now travelling back and forth to Russia and it's £360 per person per trip just for the flight...

2. you will see less of your child if they are abroad. no question. there are enormous gains to be had (and not just for your child, as I have explained in other threads), but it is pretty tough to get used to at the beginning.

 

DS didn't start seriously training until he was 14 so we didn't have to wrestle with sending him away at a much younger age (though as I recall this is the case for you too? DS is young in the school year so went away at the beginning of year 10, 2 weeks after his 14th birthday). We absolutely don't regret letting DS go, but I think I would have considered the decision more carefully had there been feasible vocational training in the UK in the style he wished to study.

 

Hope this helps

[CeliB]

sorry- another thought (and relates to an earlier post in the thread) I do think its a really good idea to do summer school at the school you are interested in. DS did a summer school at Kirov before being offered the scholarship and was pretty happy there. He did a summer at Covent Garden when he was 15 and it confirmed for him he would never want to go to RBS for training. But he didn't do a summer school at the national ballet academy in Amsterdam and I wish he had done, as when he went he loathed it - not just the teaching, but the whole atmosphere of the pre pro program. It's such a personal thing, you have to get a sense of the 'fit' between student and school style and you just can't tell that from the outside....

[sarahw]

Very good point CeliB

[betterankles]

Best school depends very much on the student.  And most importantly what teacher they get!

To get a top technique:

Cuba (virtuosity, fearlessness) for boys rather then girls

Paris Opera (french technique), girls rather then boys?

Zurich I believe

Stuttgart I believe

Kirov Academy (Washington) - not sure how it is now

Vaganova (how is it now under Tsikaridze though?) girls

Ellison Ballet NY

More artistic maybe

Hamburg

 

in UK (always 'careful')

probably ENBS

 

Very good idea to do as many summer schools as possible.   Experience a variety

[MuscleMary]

Hello. I'm new to the site but wanted to say that we have some really great full-time schools here in the uk. Elmhurst is a fabulous school with great teachers. I also know Hammond and Tring have excellent faculty too. I think schools tend to be rated on the success of their students but this isn't really fair. I wouldn't want to be ranked on the number of great dancers I turn out! You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink!! I think it's 30% talent, 50% desire/fight/determination and 20% the teacher. Those are rough percentages but one gets the general idea.

[Jan McNulty]

Hello MuscleMary and welcome to the Forum!