taxi4ballet Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Surely visiting companies could have temporary visas? I expect so, in exactly the same way as visiting athletes, pop stars, orchestras etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 It has been notoriously difficult, and costly, though clearly not impossible, for arts performers outside of the EU to get visas to perform in the UK, even if the artists are unpaid or it is one-off performance. Some never get a visa granted. http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2011/mar/21/home-secretary-visa-rules-arts http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jun/27/britain-persecutes-visiting-artists-visa http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/rbth/society/10966838/british-visa-hell-russians.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Rowan you posted before me and thanks for including some links. It can be equally difficult for non-EU dancers dancing with British companies to get visas if the British company is performing abroad (both within and without the EU). It is such a very complex subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 If we do leave then it would be an ideal time to overhaul all such regulations - haha - too sensible a suggestion for the government and civil service I expect!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 See my post 103 Sarah (we were posting at the same time) - it is an international issue and not just one our government can "sort" in isolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I wonder how Norway and Switzerland deal with the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 As far as I understand it, although they are not in the EU, they are both part of the Schengen area, and are part of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA). Norway, though not Switzerland, is also in the European Economic Area. As part of the Freedom of Movement Act, almost all EU/EFTA nationals are allowed move to and work in the EU/EFTA area, and EU nationals can work in Norway or Switzerland, at least at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate_N Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Yes, I've seen the same issue that Rowan reports. In my field in a university, it has become increasingly difficult for artists - working bona fide performing artists - from certain countries to get visas to come to us to perform and teach. It's a really complex field, and even though we in the UK are not part of Schengen, we reap the advantages of freedom of movement in the Eurozone. I'm trying to be careful of not debating the referendum here but I know that ballet, like all the performing arts, is an international industry and always has been. We need to have the best we can attract to this country (both students and performers) and we need to be able to send our best (students & performers) out to conquer the world! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 I think there can be no doubt that dance students from all over the world want to come to the UK to learn. You only have to look at summer school participation to see that. One year at ENB my dd was one of 3 'local' children in her group, everyone else had come from another country. At an RAD scheme lots of the other girls were from Hong Kong and from Brazil. I can only admire the dedication of students and their parents who are willing to travel half way round the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 But getting a visa to study in a different country (outside of the EU) and getting one to work there are very different matters. And many British ballet students also wish to, and do, study abroad - we just don't hear so much about them. Even if you have studied, say, in America, it will still be very difficult to get a visa to work there as a corps dancer, anyway, even if you're offered a job. Once you're at principal status, it's of course a different matter altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Only yesterday I saw an article about an elite female British sports coach (basketball I think) being forced to leave her job in the US as her visa is expiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumofballetmaddaughter Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 In response to Annaliesey's question of where does it all lead. My daughter has been dancing professionally for 7 years and has recently found out she's been accepted onto the RAD Professional Dancer's Teaching Diploma course. She finishes her current contract in May and will start the 3 month course in June at RAD headquarters. She's wanted to do this for quite a while but this is the first time her vacation period has fallen at the right time for the course. Fingers crossed she will be successful as it is very expensive to do. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miracle Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 If in fact we do leave the Eu will the DADA's at the ballet schools then only be for UK students? As currently they are open to UK and EU.X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melody Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Can we get dancers off the UK shortage list? I assume performing arts are on that list, regardless of the glut of homegrown candidates, because it makes it easier to snap up foreign stars who do great things for the box office. So, realistically, I don't see dancers coming off that list any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briarbear Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 There have been a few comments about Phantom of the Opera, can anyone let me know where to find the info for Auditions in London, DD is a classically trained singer as well as a classically trained dancer in third year of her vocational school and would dearly love the opportunity to audition for Phantom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 There have been a few comments about Phantom of the Opera, can anyone let me know where to find the info for Auditions in London, DD is a classically trained singer as well as a classically trained dancer in third year of her vocational school and would dearly love the opportunity to audition for Phantom. This was the first result I got from putting "Phantom Opera London auditions" into google. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 There are sometimes open auditions advertised in The Stage but I think most castings are via agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cara in NZ Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Just resurrecting this thread after reading this article on 'a career in the corps'. I do appreciate her honesty!http://dancemagazine.com/inside-dm/magazine/a-career-in-the-corps/ 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwimum6 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 I started dancing at 3 1/2 - my dream for as long as I can remember was to be a ballerina. I had an amazing childhood - dancing was and still is my passion, particularly ballet. I got into RBS upper school, had three years there and then I couldn't get into a company in the UK. I danced in Germany - yes as someone recommended that was the place to go, but I missed my family and quite honestly, I wasn't tough enough to push myself. I returned to England and worked in Pantos etc - I was always Good Fairy and Principal Dancer! But panto gave me two really important things in my life. I worked with a troupe of performing children in my first panto improving their performance and it was noticed by their school principal and so I got my first job teaching ballet at Italia Conti! And I discovered that, contrary to my previous plan that I would teach when I was too old to dance, I suited teaching and I loved it! So here I am nearly 50 years later, still teaching and believe it or not still dancing. I even had a second performing career as a character artiste, alongside the teaching! Oh and that second thing - I met my husband during my third panto! We've been married 42 years, and three children and 5 grandchildren later, I am still totally passionate about ballet. Sure I didn't become the ballerina I planned to be, but I am so grateful for the way my life turned out and don't regret a thing. There is no way of knowing if your dancing daughters and sons will have a successful career, but ballet is about so much more than just learning to dance. There's been a few threads about what we all gain from our training - work ethics, perserverance, etc etc - I don't want to repeat it all again. Still even if after all that training your child doesn't make it - either by choice or circumstances - don't regret anything. After all - Dance is Life! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwimum6 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Thank you for this lovely post. It is encouraging when sometimes the path. Seems so rocky !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof6 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 It can be a very hard industry to get jobs in.alot of little girls want to be dancers like alot of little boys want to be footballers. Or it was years ago when i was a dancer statistically over 100 dancers to 1 job at auditions. Also years ago height was a problem aswell, as i am only 5ft 1 alot of jobs wanted at least 5ft 6. I did ballet from 2 and went to stage school at 16 in london, i loved dancing and was lucky enough to get professional jobs but alot of my friends who i went to stage school were not so lucky. I did all sorts of jobs from musicals pantomime to a pop video, so not always doing ballet. as a carear that can be over very quickly as the younger ones finish their courses and you get older, i worked till about 25 i had my 1st child at 20 2nd at 22 and i carried on dancing until i got pregnant with my 3rd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherbert Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 It can be a very hard industry to get jobs in.alot of little girls want to be dancers like alot of little boys want to be footballers. The sort of casual sexism that gets men regularly in trouble, just ask Sir Tim Hunt and Kevin Roberts! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof6 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 i meant no offence by it, i meant stereo typically, my 19 year old son is a dancer and is currently dancing in india right now, but i do have 2 girls that dance and 1 son that plays football too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherbert Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 No offence taken, but Hunt and Roberts meant no offence either, they were just speaking from their experiences. Didn't stop them losing their jobs though. Anyway, was only a casual observation on a topic that vexes me. Carry on as we were! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Mumof6 I did not take offence at the comment - it was a statement of fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherbert Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Facts and offence are not mutually exclusive. Having spent a number of years witnessing my son experience lazy sexism over his choice of ballet over sport I may be over sensitive. Ok ok, I'll stop now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Gender stereotyping by no means confined to sports and performing arts. As a very young scientist I was discussing a tricky problem with a colleague when we were rudely interrupted by a building contractor. "Scuse me love, I need to speak to Professor Smith". My (also female) colleague turned in slo mo and in glacial tones replied "I am Professor Smith". The remembered look on the guys face still makes me giggle. Then there was the matter of the size 4 steel toe cap boots that had to be ordered in specially. If other people have issues with 'atypical choices' frankly its their problem, just rise above it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Anyway back on topic, tough dance training has enabled my daughter to Persue her dream as a dancer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawberyy Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Having a career in ballet/dance is a bit like the lottery. You have to be in it to win it. But this is true for an awful lot of careers now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParentTaxi Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Off topic, but relevant to both young scientists and Tim Hunt: as a PhD student i worked in a lab next to Tim's and collaborated extensively because my PhD overlapped the work of the two labs. He was actually one of the most supportive, gender-blind, encouraging to young female scientists group leaders in the department - much, much more so than my own (female) group leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 My ballet daughters favourite subjects are physics and maths, she achieved As in both subjects and would have Persued a career that involved these subject, however ballet stole her heart and passion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherbert Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Off topic, but relevant to both young scientists and Tim Hunt: as a PhD student i worked in a lab next to Tim's and collaborated extensively because my PhD overlapped the work of the two labs. He was actually one of the most supportive, gender-blind, encouraging to young female scientists group leaders in the department - much, much more so than my own (female) group leader. Tim Hunt is a massive loss to UK science education, driven out of this country by the professionally offended who are not interested in open debate, only knee jerk public damnation. Diversity, equality and inclusiveness, essential for the future of all our children, will never be achieved if we continue to treat people with such little common courtesy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate_N Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Off-topic: re Tim Hunt, there are other views, particularly around his views of 'science education' acting as a massive negative blow to the equality of women in science labs. At the level I work at, the loss of women in senior roles - because of attitudes such as Professor Hunt's publicly expressed views on the behaviour of women in labs - is a nation-wide (indeed, world-wide) problem. His public statement clearly contravened the spirit & principles of the Athena Swan charter, which UCL supports. My apologies to the Moderators, but I couldn't let sherbert's statement stand unchallenged in this thread. I work in the HE sector, and I see at first-hand the difficulties women still face in achieving leadership roles, because of structural sexism & inequalities, but also because of attitudes about what is a "woman's place." You may need to remove all the posts about Prof. Hunt et al. to another thread! Edited August 5, 2016 by Kate_N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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