Peanut68

Especially when so heavily funded by British Tax Payers enabling ALL UK based students to be fully funded on a means tested basis.... so in theory they don’t need to look for fee income from overseas... Also I dare say they receive additional government funding via Charitable status, via Arts Fund grants & others....not to mention the philanthropic support of Corporste Comanies & Indovidusls (who in turn quite likely benefit from tax savings....again a ‘cost’ or loss of income to the exchequer so all of us in effect. Also, all those who click to add donations, all those who join as ‘friemds’, all those 1000’s paying the application & audition fees for courses....despite knowing the odds of gaining a place are so small. Often these small sums are quite hard for individuals to find but add up to a sizeable amount. I think it is an insult to all of them & all of us to then say they can’t find suitable home grown talent & surely suggests they have little faith on their own training to produce dancers of the calibre for professional work! It is morally questionable too. Does the Government not have to audit or do due diligence on their funding to ensure it does indeed represent good value for money for U.K. tax payers? This same relates also to other schools/colleges/unis & dance compsmies also. On another side, it enrages me that Ballet Dancer’s I understand are in the list of employees that can be sourced overseas....ie. shortage of suitable dancers from UK resident population. Thus surely suggests also that the governments mivey is not being spent wisely in these training institutions to train their students to a good enough level.... or is it the way that their overseas students trained in the U.K., taking places away from British students & benefiting from the U.K. taxpayer cash spent on grants & the facilities they are spent on, apprenticeship teachers etc. etc. (Yes, I appreciate they are self funding via family/sponsorship/prizes awarded....who pays those ‘fees’ I wonder? (Again, if it’s a free place at RBS then is that the tax payer? Or a sponsor who might otherwise subsidise a U.K. student? I do get the whole argument of wanting/needing ‘the best of the best’ & to be a global player etc but I don’t think that is relevant in what is deemed the National Training Institution of excellence when intake numbers are so small anyhow. The ‘global’ element can be catered for by student exchanges surely? So our dancers benefit too from alternative training styles abroad? Of cotese, another cynical take on this is suggesting it’s the egos of these school leaders who want their career cv to see them as international players.... Jyst a few rambling thoughts...!

Think it’s more a case of private schools breaking up a week before state ones for Easter (half terms I think are in Feb & May?)

Very well put Aklf.... this has long been my bugbear...that freakish extreme stretches & leaps & tricks have become the norm on platforms like Instagram that we now expect them all the time.... but stop & look & does it actually look nice??? Much of the time, NO!! It’s ugly & disjointed & without any artistic or story telling or musicality merit. IMHO.... Classical Ballet seems to be compromising the all important beauty of the Classical line for bravarda & tricks more akin to circus skills.

I’m not sure if there actually is a set syllabus for Silver Swans or not? Maybe a teacher of it can enlighten me! Thanks in advance....

Really good point! Many ‘Adult Clases’ in many areas of exercise do seem to be daytime only & actually if you look st the female participants there are perhaps 2 main categories represented predominantly; young mums & retired ladies spanning a few decades. I reckon your suggestion will add much needed revenue to any teacher wise enough to open up evening classes!!

Going back to fees.... am I right in thinking that the schools included as ‘conservatoire’ are indeed fee capped at the standard rate (c. £9k) and would qualify for full standard student loans? Honestly, I thought I’d researched & knew about fees & funding inside out but I’d not at all realised that ‘orivate’ institutions providing degrees fees are different.... I’d assumed any degree course meant equal playing field financially.... Can some also offer DaDa’s which, based on means testing might cover more of fees? Am also concerned seeing A Levels might be required for degree courses in dance.... is this true for entry post sixth form?

Yes!!

In theory possibly.....bit who gets to decide who/what/where???? Hmmmm

The money went to the school NOT the students???? Outrageous!! So ticket buying public are yet again hood winked as to where their money is going.... Again I say, where is the transparent public auditing of schools & companies??? And why are people not shouting long & loud? Or is this a sign again of the long ingrained fear that anyone who speaks out will be cast out? Or rather.... never ever cast at all!!!

I’d also be interested to know what enables a dancer (or actor) to join Equity? Back in my dark ages days, you had to have an ‘equity recognised’ contract for work at equity rates of pay....this discounted much of the first jobs many took (certainly in acting....think little touring companies & profit share that were all too commonly the work pitched for graduates offering no or minimal pay & pretty poor work conditions & no stability) I imagine that low pay/no pay is still rife in the arts; pitched as chances to get experience/to be seen/something on CV. It always struck me as ludicrous that only if you had enough jobs that matched equity conditions could you join the union when surely any union should be there to protect the vulnerable, the naïve & the basically abused as let’s face it much of this type of work frankly was/is. I hope minimum wage etc has sorted some of these issues? But I doubt it....

David Cameron has much to answer for.... bit what did he do? Run away to big cash rewards in the private sector!! HE is the hypocrite here!!

‘Talk to immigration lawyer’..... yep, direct you to sinking ever more money....typical!

I can’t be the only person to read the above who feels uncomfortable & a big sick at the thought of all that??? really bit appropriate in this day & age....who is auditing all these processes? And I can’t hekp but wonder if again this is why so many overseas students:- less hooos to jump through???

Your words will ring so true with many & - I suspect - will be prophetic for even more over the next couple of years.....😢

Ah ha - thank you!! Not that a USA trip seems realistically possible in these current times...even looking for next year....sigh

Oh yes it does.... my Hisband keeps reminding me & my 15 & 17 year olds.....feeling very anxious....& that years of training & costs could do easliy amount to nothing.... the whole visa situation sounds a nightmare too...is this also an issue to attend summer intensives there? Thinking next year...

What is PNB please?

All very unusual tines... I just truly hope that the UK Arts sectors can get on track soon & maybe look to support its on affiliated training establishments more too?

I am interested to see that it appears far more WL trained students are gaining places in RBS US this year - bravo!! My only (slightly cynical?) thought is, will this just be a one off (maybe 2 year) blip due to pandemic having meant fewer international competitions/masterclasses/intensivecourses attended by the ‘powers that be’ & fewer overseas students risking travel to auditions etc & indeed fewer overseas patents willing to risk sending youngsters abroad in these times when there is still a danger of schooling moving online at the drop of a hat...I know I’d hate a youngster of mine to be overseas in these uncertain times.... Of course, I absolutely salute those gaining places at RBS wether via WL or any other route from home or abroad as am sure they are all extremely talented, dedicated & deserve their places.

I think it might already be degree validated?

So am I reading this correctly? That up to 6 precious RBS upper school places (1 year?or 2? Or 3) offered from one competition alone???? this is NOT fair as no way is this an audition opportunity available to all (even fewer than usual in these covid travel restricted times too I’d imagine) I’d be interested to know how this sits with the huge subsidies/bequests/tax deductible corporate charitable gifts/gift aided donations etc where much of this giving is with the Sim of supporting BRITISH ballet training....surely Witt the hope/expectations of nurturing home grown talent?? Thoughts peeps....

Just being nosey, but what & where is the RA?

I think there are more opportunities - both male & female now - including longer & better paid careers in pro football....arguable that both have quite similar requirements too physically/emotionally/dedication/time spent training etc.... I have actually heard of a guy who (quite a number of years ago now) had careers both as a dancer & a footballer....not sure of order/training emphasis etc... However, I think suggesting to my DC a career switch to footie would be as popular as suggesting Fatima moving to IT!! 🤣

Yes, they were shoes I referred to in my earlier post as seen on link from Bloch to an Instagram posting. Ironically I couldn’t find the name of the product or the shoes themselves to buy on their (not great) website!! The concept sounds spot on!

My goodness....I am gob smacked at parental dedication & willingness to dig deep in those already fleeced pockets to pay fur these required tests to facilitate their youngsters attending RBS summer courses....not sure I’d be coughing (sorry, bad choice of words??) up for that if from overseas. Funny thing is the one year when I dare say waitlist candidates may just get the call, I don’t have a hopeful DC as RBS just isn’t the hallowed dream anymore. So first year in many not constantly checking email hoping for a place off the waitlist they seemed annually placed on...I’ve not thrown away literally hundreds of pounds in application/audition fees for intensives/associates/ full time etc... I feel rather flush & gosh, the agony & agro & time saved by not having to get photos & fill in erratic online forms! Freedom! I do wish all who still have ‘the Royal dream’ every success & for those who get to live it - enjoy! The reality didn’t live up to the dream for my dancer sadly....though I did love being a ‘Royal Mum’ just the once at parent viewing after intensive!!! So, the Q I feel I must ask myself is, just who’s dream was it really 🤔🤔🤔 Live & learn 😂