Anjuli_Bai Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 One of the problems that a young girl faces in studying dance is that precisely those attributes that are perfectly fine, healthy and to be expected (even anticipated) in the maturation process from child to woman, are the same characteristics that are abhored by the powers that be the ballet world. What a conflicted message for a young girl - dreading the onset of perfectly wonderful physical womanhood. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Perhaps it is the expectation of the powers that be in the ballet world that female dancers have a somewhat androgynous appearance, and it it is this expectation that we should be challenging. We cannot hope to prevent eating disorders and the like (much discussed elsewhere in this forum) if girls are continually expected to conform to this unrealistic shape from early teen-hood. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I wonder whether the more modern choreography and the wearing of leotards or other very figure-hugging costumes in performances has accentuated the trend for a rather androgynous appearance on the part of the ballerinas. Sometimes when I have watched performances I've wanted to scream "Don't make grown women go on stage in their pants. It's just not respectful!" Somehow, a tutu is a flattering piece of clothing and a ballerina with a fuller bust would look well-proportioned (and elegant) in it. She would not look top-heavy. In the past ballerinas were expected to look feminine rather than androgynous and super-skinny and a fuller bust would I think have been more accepted. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Actually, I should have said pants AND VESTS. Wayne McGregor take note (and one of the choreographers who did something for ENB at Tate Britain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Ballet "superstar" Polina Semionova is an example of a ballerina who is definitely not flat-chested! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I think any costumier worth their salt should be able to fit flattering costumes that take account of a variety of bust sizes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Actually, I should have said pants AND VESTS. Wayne McGregor take note (and one of the choreographers who did something for ENB at Tate Britain). Oh Gawd, yes. I can't bear those nude vests and knickers that Wayne McGregor loves so much. :-/. Even a normal ballet leotard worn in class looks nicer and is more feminine! Ugh. :-/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plie Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Out of all the great number of body shape/size issues that could potentially present problems for a classical dancer (including the development of scoliosis for my dd) I think too large breasts is one that she need never worry about if our genes are anything to go by well, I have no chest at all but my eldest who is training to be a ballerina does so you can never tell. She hates her breasts and would love to get rid of them and really believes it will hinder her chances once she starts to audition for companies in two years time. Its a hard one! Edited May 9, 2012 by plie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I hope that this comment is not getting too personal, but in the Agony and Ecstasy programme last year there was a photograph of Polina in a modern, flesh/orangey-coloured pants and vest type combo and, having seen other photographs of her, I did wonder how she managed with the top (I feel that she must have worn something underneath or the top must have had some built in support or something). It was a sideways view and she had a very arched back so you couldn't see her chest clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 One of the good things about Tamara Rojo is how she has stated in various articles recently that she wants to move away from the super skinny to more healthy looking dancers. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankruptMum Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I remeber my daughters partner in sports acro was asked by the coach to 'strap herself down' as her bust was well developed for a young teen - it does make you wonder what goes on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitschqueen_1 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 One of the good things about Tamara Rojo is how she has stated in various articles recently that she wants to move away from the super skinny to more healthy looking dancers. Lets hope this happens and is not just a tokenistic gesture as we see in the fashion world. Like Plie my daughter has a bust. Outside of the ballet world she has body to die for... v tall, longlimbed and athletic. We have spent hours sourcing the perfect audition leotard which disguises her bust. She has often remarked that she wishes she could have a detachable bust that she could take off for ballet. I just think it's a shame she feels so self-conscious about it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Well busts are getting bigger generally as we are better fed nutritionally compared to our grandparents and in much better health! Kitshqueen - I would be interested to know if you have any recommendations for leotards that help disguise a fuller bust. My DD has a normal size one but it definitely looks bigger in some leotards than others and she would like it to be smaller (for ballet reasons) if possible. Edited for typo Edited May 9, 2012 by Ribbons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Don't get me started on the problems of finding suitable leotards for big busts - my poor dd takes after me and has to wear a bra under a leotards. Caused a few problems when trying to find something suitable for her RAD Advanced 1 exam and ended up buying the Bloch (I think - I'd have to check) one that has a built in bra (well - kind of - does up inside at the back) plus a bra too I seem to remember. Her usual sports bras are rather noticeable under a normal leotard which she doesn't care about in class (and our school's not that fussy about what they wear). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomuchtallent Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I think its getting harder and harder in the ballet world!! I dont think anything will change soon,infact it will probably get more and more picky as to what is right for ballet.Makes me very sad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 One of my DD's friends has just bought a leotard from capezio that has a proper bra built in (I think its called something like bra-tec). Prior to that she had to wear a sports bra under her leotard which I imagine made her feel quite self conscious, and was obviously no good for exams etc. When you consider how many different designs the big leotard manufacturers bring out every year - new colours, different straps, lacy inserts etc - you would think they would invest a bit more in making leotards to suit dancers of different shapes. Most professional ballet dancers might be boob-less but that doesn't mean most dancers are! I would imagine that quite a reasonable proportion of overall sales go to girls and women who do have boobs and would appreciate a bit of support. In particular, I wonder why Dans-ez who already make sports bras as well as leotards haven't addressed this issue.(Unless they have and I've missed it.) I may write to them.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitschqueen_1 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Kitshqueen - I would be interested to know if you have any recommendations for leotards that help disguise a fuller bust. My DD has a normal size one but it definitely looks bigger in some leotards than others and she would like it to be smaller (for ballet reasons) if possible. Edited for typo Her favourite is the Gala leotard by Gaynor Minden (if I was more technologically capable I would post a link, maybe someone else could help out!) Gaynor Minden leotards are very generous in body length too which I think helps. This leotard has adjustable spaghetti straps and the material is pleated over the bust area which you would think would emphasise them more but in fact it creates an illusion of flatness!! :-) Edited May 9, 2012 by Kitschqueen_1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 The leotards that the RBS school use for all classes and associates dont even have a bra lining in them. As I have mentioned my dd doesnt have a bust, but these leotards do not hide a thing, especially if it is a cold day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Both of my ex Dds would keep their bras on when they had dance lessons after about 16, but neither of them really needed to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 One of my DD's friends has just bought a leotard from capezio that has a proper bra built in (I think its called something like bra-tec). Ah yes - that's the one (not Bloch as in my previous post!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Oh dear, reading these last few posts has taken me right back to my teenage years, and the sheer embarrassment this subject caused to those of us who developed earlier than others. This was in the days when the juniors had to wear white leotards that were ever so slightly transparent. We all wore pants underneath, but you can imagine what it was like for those of us who had to wear a bra as well. We came in for the most dreadful teasing, not only from the boys but the other girls as well. Not happy days. Nowadays, I swear by the Minimal Bounce bra, as it looks just like a crop top. Not sure how it would fit under a leotard, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I find it ridiculous that regulation ballet leotards (other than those for the younger girls) don't have built in support. My daughter made me laugh when she came out of a class one day. One of the other girls had asked why the leotard for the new class had stitching on the front and the teacher had said, rather mysteriously, "it's for something to grow". My daughter found this very amusing. . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I think that we've identified a business opportunity here: well-made, attractive leotards (which are acceptable to ballet schools and examination boards) for girls and women who have a larger bust (or any bust at all, it seems from previous posts). Who's going to get in touch with Lord Sugar! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 What about leotards that can pull the tummy in for those bloated times of the month. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I'd always assumed that ballet dancers' abdominal muscles were so strong that they didn't have that problem, unlike the rest of us! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 To ballet dancers they will always notice any bloating. Bloating happens to all us ladies and ballet dancers are human after all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Beelam Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Im a "normal" size 12 with 34E chest and a post baby bump...(yes my babies are 13 & 15...but it's still a baby bump!) but several times a week I pour myself into pink tights and leotard...so I understand and agree why are there no magic leotards????? Leave it with me 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowlight Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Especially when there are magic swimsuits which do magic things for smoothing bulges and curves. Edited to add....I suppose this wouldn't be considered sporting in an exam or audition situation! Edited May 10, 2012 by glowlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 What about leotards that can pull the tummy in for those bloated times of the month. Good idea, my dd gets water retention and no amount of holding her stomach in makes any difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Moving slightly off-topic, has anyone seen the (IMO) hideous costume which Snow White wears in the ballet of the same name currently being performed at Sadler's Wells? Take a look at the photographs in the Performances Seen section of the forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 And something else to think about: the 1995 ballet "Bella Figura" by Jiří Kylián is performed topless, for both the men and women... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomuchtallent Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 OMG! just looked at the photos of Snow White!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Rowan, all I've got to say is "WHY?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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