LinMM Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm going to give that some thought tomorrow Balleteacher but do need to get to bed now as Ive no discipline whatsoever on this IPad and its about to be taken off me.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Just returned from London to find some particularly interesting posts: one from LinnMM about the 6th position another from Michelle_Richer about the improvers' class in Leeds a third from Balleteacher about "the things which adult dancers struggle to learn or are the steps that make your heart sink because you feel you have never quite mastered the essence of the step." The discussion of the 6th position reminds me of an amusing little ballet danced by Daniel Montero in Amsterdam called "Ballet 101". Montero made his way through the 100 positions before gyrating apparently into pieces. The stage strewn with body parts was "position 101". I reviewed the ballet in my article on the Dutch National Ballet Junior Company's mixed bill on 28 Nov. According to Montero the 6th position is feet in parallel which, I think, others have said. In response to Michelle_Richer's post yes I agree the improvers' class is a nice class. I have attended that class only twice so I do not know the other students very well. I have not yet stopped for a coffee with the students of that class or indeed the beginners' class. That is probably because I pay for only 90 minutes parking and I have to dash to my car immediately after class finishes. Also there are usually lots of emails and voicemails screaming for attention after class. If you come on the 25 Feb I shall try to take that class too. If I make it maybe we can have a coffee then. In answer to Balleteacher everything in ballet is hard work for me. I was not made for ballet. However I am game for anything and when I do get pose pirouettes right I get the same sense of exhilaration as I do with skiing. Balance is my main problem. I wobble like jelly when I in arabesque or attitude. I guess that is because my core is so flabby. Too many good dinners and too much port I'm afraid. And I'm not getting any younger. Night night all :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Two points as you cant leave this alone:Firstly I seem to remember a figure of doing ballet for 15 years, not sure if it was you or not, but how much longer do you realistically think I have left, its possibly less than five years no one really knows, no way am I going to get to the end of my days saying I wish I had done this and life had passed me by. I've far too much fire in my belly for that and I'm by no means passive. I've a lot to achieve in that time, given the opportunity its solo with a full orchestra.Second point, is reason you struggle to understand, the logic behind the reason you think I should struggle to understand ballet and take much longer?Believe me when I get good tangle advise I do take it, Balleteacher gave me a link to Ballet Physios, that's where I found mine before she was rubbished on this thread.But hey-ho its like water off a duck back with me.Lin I love your humour I admire your determination, Michelle. I think the point that many people are trying to make is that you need to take care of your body if you want to continue to dance. I can understand that in your opinion, attending many classes will help you achieve your goal of performing a solo with a full orchestra. If you have the time, money and physical capacity to do all those classes then that is entirely your choice, of course. As I said previously, it is clear just how important ballet is to you. However, I do not agree that over-exercising, hundreds of reps of an exercise (where 30 done properly would probably be more effective), and weight-bearing pliés (which I have NEVER seen any professional do in class) are going to help you improve your ballet. How do these exercises and high reps help either your technique or artistry? In my humble opinion, all these inappropriate exercises and high reps are going to do is to contribute to injury, stop existing injuries healing, and eventually stop you dancing - probably before you have achieved your goal. I know only too well how your body can fail you - irrepairably - and the best laid plans can suddenly go out of the window for good. As I said before, bodies are fragile. I don't care how fit you are, how many years of martial arts training you had, a body part can give up in an instant. Do you really want that to happen because of stubbornness? Wouldn't it be possible to drop your defences for *one* minute and actually read - properly - the advice of other adult students and of knowledgeable, well respected teachers? People seem to me to be concerned that over exercising and exercising inappropriately will hinder your ballet ambitions. Instead of instantly going on the defensive and accusing them of discrediting you and "rubbishing" your physio and your teachers, perhaps try to see the intention and experience behind their advice. If, after all that, you still choose to go ahead with your high rep/weight lifting exercise regime, then that is your choice and at that point I would suggest that other posters leave you to it. Please be clear that I am NOT referring to your actual ballet classes here - how many you do, and how you dance there is between you and your teachers. But I do urge you one final time to try to see the concern behind people's words; concern that if you carry on as you are with the exercising then do not be surprised if your body gives up way before your mind does. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Trying to change the subject, I just saw a lovely poster which I think comes from Étude Ballet Boutique on the London Ballet Circle Facebook page: "You can't buy happiness. But you can buy ballet classes and that's kind of the same thing." Isn't that lovely? And isn't there more than just a grain of truth in that sentence? Edited January 10, 2014 by terpsichore 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 That is lovely! I was doing a financial assessment form yesterday and was quite shocked at how much I spent on ballet last year.......and that's not including the theatre visits when I add those on I daren't say how much!! But Ive had a great time anyway!! It's very true what S and P says about the suddenness that the body can become very fragile. And that's the problem because you can get away with things for quite a while when "suddenly" your back goes or your neck goes or your foot stops wanting to move. Sometimes you can be doing something quite innocuous like filling a kettle up(once happened to me) and you're in agony for days and not back to normal for weeks or even months. It may feel "sudden" but in reality it's been about to happen for a while. Which is why one MUST acknowledge those twinges which are warnings that the body is stressed. I know when you get older you do have twinges most of the time it seems but you can usually tell when it's not one of the usual ones OR one of the usual ones feels worse than normal. This is what listening to the body means I think. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm putting this in a second post as its nothing to do with the above. Ballet teacher to get back to what you were asking yesterday. Ive got a few "heart sinkers" One is the en dedans pirouette. I can really enjoy a series of pirouettes set en dehors when they come off but am not so keen on the en dedans ones. I feel they are technically harder to do but wonder if this is just me now. It always feels slightly more clumsy in execution and I can never do more than one whereas I can manage two en dehors ones on good days. This is often set from 4th position.....arms third etc....and originally taught to extend the leg to second before whipping in but in a class the other day it was without the extension to second first......which I did find a bit easier .....but the other way is very ingrained .....is the leg to second first sort of mandatory? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 LinMM, I hope you don't mind me butting in...! The fouette motion probably throws you off centre when your turning en dedans, which is possibly why you found it easier without. Did you open your arm into the turn, or keep it in 3rd and then join the other arm ? (again the opening of the arm to 2nd can throw you off) I was taught both ways and almost always use the non fouette option. Think 'up' not 'around' when you turn, imagine your shoulders being completely over your hips, back wide and give an extra deep plie for impetus before take off, bring your 2nd side 'in' (don't leave it behind) and a strong spotting motion...and see if it helps....! I think that everyone finds their own way of turning, the clue is not to panic !x 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) There are so many steps where I find achieving the details challenging. The first thing that comes to my mind are pivotes in arabesque. Many times I've caught myself in the mirror during pivotes in arabesque and my supporting foot looks pararell. I think of showing the audience the inside thigh and the heel of the supporting leg, and keep the knee facing the middle of the foot as I pivote in order to maintain turnout. But I find it hard to do this enough to actually maintain turnout AND keep the up, up, up accent as I pivote round AND maintain correct arabesque alignment AND keep the leg at the same height AND keep the working leg and foot turned out AND give the feeling of growing in the position as I pivote round, all at the same time and not 'forget' something. And then there's the 'small' issue of keeping my centre engaged to allow all of this to happen. As a dance teacher has said to me recently, 'Ballet dancers need to multi-task'. Edited January 10, 2014 by Dancer Sugar Plum 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 So relate to the above about pivoting in arabesque. I had a couple of private lessons last year and this was one of the things I practised! I think then my pivots were too big and throwing off balance so have been trying to get them a little smaller....so have to do more of them but I am always disappointed if I catch sight of myself in the mirror of what the back leg is doing......not nicely held at all!! Not even at 45 sometimes. It's the same in attitude by the time I'm round my thigh has dropped somewhat I'm going to do en dedans pirouettes without the fouetté action for a few weeks to see if this increases confidence just wondering how others feel about the en dedans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 To be honest everything in ballet I still struggle... I struggle to stand (this is ballet satnding, not when one waits for No10 omnibus) propperly at the barre, and if I feel I am not doing so badly then again it is a struggle to maintein it. The more one learns the more one is able to notices what is going wrong... My current struggle is not to sit on the bottom of my plie, particularly grand plie. This was pointed out in my Zumba class (yes!, but the girl who teaches it were ex-professional ballet dancer, retire because of injury), but then it was also pointed out by one of my ballet teachers of years and years. The thing that really gets me is that I can't really feel the fact I am sitting on it just yet, even though I know in theory how the plie should be executed. And in an attempt to correct this, I end up heaving up one of my hip etc - it is a trial and error time. But I am happy that my teachers are willing to teach me and helping me to get to the new level - when it is so easy to just smile and give me an encouraging "good!"... after all I have no problem picking up all the enchainements on the spots and reversing them to the left in intermediate/advance level class, and it's a hobby, so why dent my ego on some technical "details" and spoil the fun... I shall work on this, taking however much time it will take, because I know it will pay off handsomely in my jumps, turns, everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) There are so many steps where I find achieving the details challenging. The first thing that comes to my mind are pivotes in arabesque. Many times I've caught myself in the mirror during pivotes in arabesque and my supporting foot looks pararell. I think of showing the audience the inside thigh and the heel of the supporting leg, and keep the knee facing the middle of the foot as I pivote in order to maintain turnout. But I find it hard to do this enough to actually maintain turnout AND keep the up, up, up accent as I pivote round AND maintain correct arabesque alignment AND keep the leg at the same height AND keep the working leg and foot turned out AND give the feeling of growing in the position as I pivote round, all at the same time and not 'forget' something. And then there's the 'small' issue of keeping my centre engaged to allow all of this to happen. As a dance teacher has said to me recently, 'Ballet dancers need to multi-task'. Not that I can do that, either, I struggle to maintain my maximum turn out, pivoting or not! What I have been taught, which might be useful, is to imagine initiating the pivot from the core, then your foot moves as a result. I know it is more of image(?) training but it seems to work with me (when I remember). Edited to correct "what I have taught" to "what I have BEEN taught" - I am not a ballet teacher! Edited January 10, 2014 by mimi66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Mimi66 - I know what you mean, I have the same problem. I find it hard to maintain maximum turnout in everything as well! My current struggle is not to sit on the bottom of my plie, particularly grand plie. This was pointed out in my Zumba class (yes!, but the girl who teaches it were ex-professional ballet dancer, retire because of injury), but then it was also pointed out by one of my ballet teachers of years and years. The thing that really gets me is that I can't really feel the fact I am sitting on it just yet, even though I know in theory how the plie should be executed. And in an attempt to correct this, I end up heaving up one of my hip etc - it is a trial and error time. I have a teacher who gave me some advice about how to not sit in plies. She said to keep the tailbone pointing down while you keep the same hold on the rotation of the thighs. At the same time, you are lifting the front of the hips up constantly, so there is a 'push-me, pull-you' energy going on in the body. There is energy going down the back and up the front at the same time. This energy doesn't stop at anytime, even when you've reached the bottom of the plie, which stops the 'sitting' from happening. This should also help stop the pelvis from tilting back. She said that if the bottom releases (your turnout hold) at any point during the plie (even a slight release) then you will end up 'sitting'. I say all this, repeating what my teacher has said, but actually doing all this myself is another matter entirely! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yes I tend to,agree with that. It may be better sometimes to reduce the level you go down ......so not right down to the bottom ....and keep the control and alignment until one is strong enough......especially in adults returning to ballet when older. This will at least protect the knees a bit! Another "heartache" is in any adage holding anything in second. Again is this technically more difficult than holding in devant/derrière/or attitude? Trying to pivot holding the leg in second is a bit of a no-no for me. I think second only looks good with the leg at least at 90 and because I haven't achieved this yet I doubly hate it because its difficult to hold and really doesn't look that good at even 45!! Without getting into a 100 reps of anything is there a strengthening exercise you can do for this other than getting more disciplined and adding a develope a la seconde to my (minimal) daily yoga routine!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straceydor Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I read this post to see what people are doing. I get concerned when I see Michelle getting picked on. She tells us what she has been doing not what others should be doing and she only defends what other experts have told her. I hope you all can agree that people have different bodies that can do different things and have different levels of learning. There is a man who can run forever google it. Yes ballet is difficult to master. Yes you might (I don't know) have to have muscle memory but people and muscles learn at different paces. Teenagers/ children will see and read what they want to especially on the internet or even (I have been told) in a dictionary.This is all common sense. My son had to do exercises for feet from a nhs physio which had him putting his balls of his feet on to a step and then lowering his heels. He would then have to make his heels rise so that he could lower them again to do the reps advised. My son is not athletic nor a dancer This is my opinion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm sorry straceydor but I do not see Michelle being "picked on" I see people being concerned and offering advice. I also see someone who is apparently used to extreme levels of activity that other people have shown concern about in case youngsters who are not yet up to that level try to emulate. On the whole, I find the vast majority of people who contribute to the "Doing Dance" forum to be very supportive and I haven't noticed any signs of people being "picked on". It should be remembered that this is a public forum and to post a comment invites discussion. Spanner has summed up people's concerns beautifully in her post no 352. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think second only looks good with the leg at least at 90 and because I haven't achieved this yet I doubly hate it because its difficult to hold and really doesn't look that good at even 45!! Personally, I think a 2nd en l'air raised from a terre, or from a develope looks good on anyone as long as it's perfectly placed and properly turned out. So no raising of the hip to get a higher leg. The foot should have energy running into the toes to keep them pointed as well. I think all this makes a nice 2nd, no matter the height. Personally, I find it difficult to direct and maintain the energy into the toes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 There are so many steps where I find achieving the details challenging. The first thing that comes to my mind are pivotes in arabesque. Many times I've caught myself in the mirror during pivotes in arabesque and my supporting foot looks pararell. I think of showing the audience the inside thigh and the heel of the supporting leg, and keep the knee facing the middle of the foot as I pivote in order to maintain turnout. But I find it hard to do this enough to actually maintain turnout AND keep the up, up, up accent as I pivote round AND maintain correct arabesque alignment AND keep the leg at the same height AND keep the working leg and foot turned out AND give the feeling of growing in the position as I pivote round, all at the same time and not 'forget' something. And then there's the 'small' issue of keeping my centre engaged to allow all of this to happen. As a dance teacher has said to me recently, 'Ballet dancers need to multi-task'. There are a couple of things that might help with pivot - in arabesque, attitude, etc. But try it in retire first so you can concentrate on the pivot and not worry about the arabesque. Remember: the standing heel leads you around. Don't turn your body first and then try to catch up with the standing foot. Lift the standing heel ever so slightly from the floor and that's what moves first. Divide the room into 8 sections - wall, corner, wall, corner, wall corner, etc. Now, skim that standing heel to the next corner or wall - along with your spot. At first this dividing of the room into 8 sections will seem bumpy but once you get the hang of it - it will smooth out and the pivot will look like (and feel like) a smooth circular pivot. Lead with your heel, skim it along the floor, spot at the same time - don't leave anything behind such as your "following" shoulder. Once you get it smooth, do it in attitude (its easier than arabesque) and then finally in arabesque. The trick to keeping your arabesque leg steady is to raise it and lock it in place with your back muscles. When you first practice this way of doing pivot do it en dedans (turning toward the standing leg) because it is easier. Then work on it en dehors (turning away from the standing leg). Lead with the heel, do only 1/8th of the room at a time, leave nothing behind. Let me know how it goes. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Some thoughts about developpé in second.... Shape the foot as it leaves the floor - shaping it later is too late. As you begin the developpé, lift the knee, feel as if a hand is under your thigh lifting the leg. When the knee has reached its height, visualize that the foot leading the leg upward and pointing to a star in outer space. Don't try to get it too high and don't try to take it beyond it's normal second position which will most probably NOT be directly to your side unless you have perfect turnout. Wherever that leg ends up the knee must be looking up to the ceiling. The reason devant is easier is you have your stomach muscles. The reason arabesque is easier is because you have your back muscles. If you take the leg too far to the side (past your normal a la second) you lose both stomach and back to help you with the lift. A good exercise to do to work on height is (when you are well warmed up) to face the barre, place your leg on the barre in second with your best but not forced turnout. Be sure to be correctly alligned on your standing leg. Now, from the barre try to lift your leg just one inch. Don't be surprised or dismayed if you have trouble. Just keep working on it. It will take time but with work gradually you will be able to lift the leg. Do this consistently when you are warmed up. As for repetitions - just 4-5 lifts are enough. Doing it this way enables you to strenghten the muscles that are very high on the thigh. It took me a couple of months but the result was wonderful. This was taught to me by a very old teacher who taught Mariinsky pre-Vaganova school. Another thing to do: when you do grand battements don't allow the leg to drop - lower it with control. That will also engage those muscles at the top (just where the thigh meets the torso) of the thigh. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Michelle being picked on, you must be jocking. Michelle wouldn't allow anyone to pick on her. I think there has been a discussion going on regarding Michelle's journey to getting better. Michelle appears to me to agree with some advice but not all. All adults discussing ballet and injuries. I am sure our lovely moderators would not allow anyone to be picked on, on this forum. I think that we are all very supportive of each other, we may get scratchy during some heated discussions , but then we agree to disagree. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Interesting comments Anjuli. Another thing to add which can help with stability in arabesques is to gradually strengthen the intrinsic muscles in the supporting foot. You will notice these when you start to wobble in an arabesque and your foot starts to rock. You can improve the strength in these by practicing just standing on one foot in with the other foot raises in a small parallel retire. Try it on each foot(but not at the same time). Once this gets easier you can try the same exercise with your eyes closed. I tend to get students starting on pointe to try this exercise in pointe shoes as well as is a good strengthening exercise. It's important with any developpe to start it off well in terms of placing and turnout. A good exercise to begin to activate the key muscle groups is to lie on you side, engage your turnout from the top of the leg and then try a retire closing with pointed feet so it ends in fifth at the back and repeat to finish fifth front. Make sure you are working the turnout on both legs and engaging your core. Only a few reps are needed and once this becomes easier can be repeated with the leg extension to the side. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila Beelam Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks Anjuli, pivots away from supporting leg annoy me as I have long legs and in arabesque I feel that my leg is like the swinging boom of a sailing boat! Will try to visualise what you have said tomorrow in class 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hi Girls It seems a lot has been happening while I have been away, this gal has been dancing. Although my heel isn’t fully heeled it is considerable better. I left home this morning to get my hair done, I still had a limp particularly with hard pavements. After the hairdressers I pop into the bank and then a couple of shops. On the way back I noticed the limp had gone and my posture was back where it should be, that raised my spirits no end. Tonight I went to my local Salsa class at Boston, but only did the first and third classes, as I could feel the effect on my heel. I was dancing in ballet slippers as that’s my preference, however after the first class I slipped on a ballroom shoe on the right foot, although the shoe has a sold back it has a high strap which was in contact with the Achilles, that simply was not going to work, so I sat the next (Bachata) class out. At the end of the evening my feet have survived pretty well. Next Step, London tomorrow with quite a bit of walking when I go to see Le Corsair. Plan for next week, resume Body Balance classes on Monday and Wednesday, Physio on Tuesday, 2 hour ballet at LAB on Thursday. If that’s successful Lincoln and two classes at ENB back on line the next week, the rest the following week. Lessons learnt: When leaving late classes like ENB etc, is to have good stretch before leaving in spite of people wanting to close the premises. Body Balance: During the winter at least, do a warm-up workout prior to going to class in cold premises and warm clothes for journey to retain heat. No exercises when cold. No or restricted jumping on solid floors. Fitness Training Plan 2014 As we have so many experts telling me high rep load baring exercises is wrong, now I’m going to start with a clean sheet. Basically I need an exercise routine that I can use at home using a combination of my gym and dance studio, it needs to be something that does not without good reason extend beyond 1.5 hours and will be something that is used three times a week. It is for general ballet fitness. My own thoughts on this one is to create a fusion of the Mat Section of the Training DVD “Pilates + Preparation for Ballet Students DYNAMIC 5th” by Dreas Reyneke and Students of the Royal Ballet School, and “The Front Splits Fast Flexibility Program” which has a lot of commonalty with my Body Balance classes. I also need to address three specific areas this year on top of the above: First is improved and sustained leg extension though increased power to utilise my full existing flexibility. Second: Larger range in back bends particularly the lower back. Third: Better foot articulation, in spite of all the classes I do, this is something that is not fully address on a regular enough basis, its something I need to do anyway and I guess this will be to some extent be through hi repetition. For 1 and 2 I will be seeking the views and possible one to one help from my Body Balance instructor which works at my local gym, but she has no ballet experience If everyone is as concerned as suggested and wants to help, well there it is, all ideas welcome, now go for it. Hi Lin Ref “Tut tut Michelle not doing what the teacher said is getting a bit naughty now ” please note I have never disobeyed a direct instruction, releasing the barre on a rise I would say it’s the right and proper thing to do if you have the skill to do it. Alignment should be automatic from muscle memory as you take the outbreath on that rise/retire, admittedly I sometimes have to drop the hand nearest the barre to steady my balance as I'm not perfect (at least not yet Ha ha), but as a floorless technique this is what we should be striving for. As yet I have never been corrected or told it was wrong, if I had, the chances are I would challenge it, but not in front of the class. I think as well there is a bit of a culture difference between me and the majority of dancers. The Majority of dancers I dance with have danced since children, I think there perspective of a teacher is much different to mine. I think there may still be an element of dependency and approval sort in that relationship. For me it’s a partnership, it takes both of us to get me to perform successfully, that’s what I'm paying my teacher for. Finally A special little thank you to Straceydor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Mimi66 - I know what you mean, I have the same problem. I find it hard to maintain maximum turnout in everything as well! I have a teacher who gave me some advice about how to not sit in plies. She said to keep the tailbone pointing down while you keep the same hold on the rotation of the thighs. At the same time, you are lifting the front of the hips up constantly, so there is a 'push-me, pull-you' energy going on in the body. There is energy going down the back and up the front at the same time. This energy doesn't stop at anytime, even when you've reached the bottom of the plie, which stops the 'sitting' from happening. This should also help stop the pelvis from tilting back. She said that if the bottom releases (your turnout hold) at any point during the plie (even a slight release) then you will end up 'sitting'. I say all this, repeating what my teacher has said, but actually doing all this myself is another matter entirely! Well, this makes a lot of sense... thank you Dancer Sugar Plum. So, after all it's back to that "maintaining the turn out" - yet again . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Thanks Anjuli, pivots away from supporting leg annoy me as I have long legs and in arabesque I feel that my leg is like the swinging boom of a sailing boat! Will try to visualise what you have said tomorrow in class Pivot in arabesque en dehors (away from the supporting leg) is often more troublesome. I would suggest: Divide the room into 8ths - corner, wall, corner, wall, etc. Instead of leading with the heel by moving it forward - again just slightly lift - a skim really - the heel and allow it to move back as little as that 8th of a room requires. Keep pressing the arabesque leg back behind you - feel it as one line with the back of your shoulder. Either way - en dedans or en dehors the pivot must be done by moving as one piece. As soon as you allow one part of your body to move separately - in sections - then the stability is lost. Try it in retiré to get the feel of it - or better yet with the lifted foot sur la coup de pied derriére (on the back of the ankle of the standing foot). Going toward the standing foot bring it with you - going away from the standing foot keep pressing it behind you. Think of yourself as a statue - everything moves as one piece. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 As for sitting in pliés - I remember taking a class with prima ballerina Sonia Arova when she said: "Plies (demi or grand) are not a time to rest - they are a continuous movement." You lower yourself only to raise yourself. Nothing really goes down - the body is still up - only the knees are bending. Plié is a preparation for the next thing - not a time to exhale. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Yes I tend to,agree with that. It may be better sometimes to reduce the level you go down ......so not right down to the bottom ....and keep the control and alignment until one is strong enough......especially in adults returning to ballet when older. This will at least protect the knees a bit! ...and thank you LinMM. You had it spot on... this "sitting on the bottom" business started after I started to deepen my plies. I would not have connected the two had it not been for your post. I was going that for that extra miles (more like milimeters), thinking I was still maintaining my turn out, but obviously I wasn't. I will try to go down less and see if I can increase the strength of my turn out muscles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 As for sitting in pliés - I remember taking a class with prima ballerina Sonia Arova when she said: "Plies (demi or grand) are not a time to rest - they are a continuous movement." You lower yourself only to raise yourself. Nothing really goes down - the body is still up - only the knees are bending. Plié is a preparation for the next thing - not a time to exhale. Thank you Anjuli. It's so easy to "rest" even when one is trying not to... Sonia Arova! Wow. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Thanks for the helpful advice on pivots and strengthening exercises for second Anjuli and the advice on foot strengthening Balleteacher. One thing I would say about the barre exercise is though is finding a barre (or object) at the height for your leg initially. I find most barres too high to do this as they would already place the leg at 90 and I cannot hold 90 naturally yet so no way could lift the leg off the barre. I do sometimes place the leg on in second and just stand and practice pulling up the supporting leg to strengthen that but having the leg in 90 is already a bit of a strain even when resting on the barre but at least I can do that now as 18months ago I couldn't get my leg up on the barre!!! Some classes do have those double bars so could try on the lower barre as I see the important thing here is trying to lift a few millimetres above the natural height you can hold the leg at present. I need to hunt around the house I think to find something that would work at the mo!! I think the pivot advice sounds excellent I will let you know how that goes. Later on (just leaving to go to class now) my other all time heart sinker is the brisee and will explain why later. It's funny when I was in my twenties I remember feeling very excited about learning brisees but now I just think Oh no and usually chicken out and just do an assemblee the easy option. But when well done they do look good!! Does anyone have brisee as their worst or favourite step!!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) It may not be my best step but I love brisee. The funny thing is that I used to dread brisee, or actually petit allegro in general. Then suddenly (after years of trial) one day something clicked. Of course there are still so many things to be improved, but I just love petit allegro now. I guess petit allegro requires strong core plus a good cordination... not something one could learn instantly, I guess. Looking forward to your post-class comment, LinMM. Edited because my keyboard refuses to type letter "e".... Edited January 11, 2014 by mimi66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Actually re pivoting... I have recently in one of my classes tried to do this pivot from arabesque in demi-pointe (at the barre). Is there any additiional tips for doing a decent pivots in demi-pointe? I know the way to go is to build up from supporting foot flat, but just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I personally never made friends with grand jete en tournant. I think it's harder for long legged dancers but I still envy those who seem to perform them with ease???? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Balleteacher, I managed to fall over in the one class I did that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) I personally never made friends with grand jete en tournant. I think it's harder for long legged dancers but I still envy those who seem to perform them with ease I am a long legged dancer (or was!) and grand jeté entournant was one of my favorite steps. The trick for me was spotting it - a good strong sweep of the initiating leg and then a strong spot for the turn in the air. The spot sees only two directions - front and back - you shouldn't see any side views. As for brisées - again a good strong sweep of the initiating leg. As for pivot on demi-pointe - I'm not sure I understand - perhaps you mean what I would call a fouetté - not a fouetté turn as iin Swan Lake but a half pivot initiated by the leg going through first position to turn the body one half turn. Since the leg is "thrown" that for me is a fouetté. In a pivot the lifted leg is not dynamic - makes no movement. I need to understand what you mean before I can reply. For most everything - when you have trouble - go back to the preparation - the alignment, the preparatory plié, how the head is used - the forward stance of the body and the amount of dynamiic movement. Too much force is as bad as too little. Hope something Ive said here helps. Something more for tour jetés entournant.....the legs must pass one another close enough for a beat/cabriole in the air. If the legs are splayed at all - the tour is "over." So, as you kick up - make sure that initiating leg kicks squarely in front of you and the leg behind you stays squarely behind you shoulder. Edited to add the last paragraph. Sorry 'bout that. Edited January 11, 2014 by Anjuli_Bai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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