mimi66 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) [...] As for pivot on demi-pointe - I'm not sure I understand - perhaps you mean what I would call a fouetté - not a fouetté turn as iin Swan Lake but a half pivot initiated by the leg going through first position to turn the body one half turn. Since the leg is "thrown" that for me is a fouetté. In a pivot the lifted leg is not dynamic - makes no movement. I need to understand what you mean before I can reply. [....] Sorry Anjuli, I realised that I did not explain it well at all.... This was at the barre - a pirouette en dehors finished with attitude derrier on demi-pointe, then pivot on demi-pointe 180 degrees en dedans (towards the barre) keeping the attitude, then allonge, close to 5th position (feet) , then finish. Edited January 11, 2014 by mimi66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Sorry Anjuli, I realised that I did not explain it well at all.... This was at the barre - a pirouette en dehors finished with attitude derrier on demi-pointe, then pivot on demi-pointe 180 degrees en dedans (towards the barre) keeping the attitude, then allonge, close to 5th position (feet) , then finish. Well, the same theory applies....pivot toward the barre by pressing the heel of the demi-pointe foot forward - don't let it lag behind - take the second shoulder with you and spot it in sections. Of course, make sure you are not leaning on the barre in any way. Edited January 11, 2014 by Anjuli_Bai 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Later on (just leaving to go to class now) my other all time heart sinker is the brisee and will explain why later. It's funny when I was in my twenties I remember feeling very excited about learning brisees but now I just think Oh no and usually chicken out and just do an assemblee the easy option. But when well done they do look good!! Does anyone have brisee as their worst or favourite step!!? I think brise unders must be one of my worst steps. It's hard to get the back-front beat done properly to be noticeable to the audience. I just find that my calves 'get in the way' because I have sway-backed legs. Unfortunately, that's not a valid excuse for not doing them well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) There are a couple of things that might help with pivot - in arabesque, attitude, etc. But try it in retire first so you can concentrate on the pivot and not worry about the arabesque. Remember: the standing heel leads you around. Don't turn your body first and then try to catch up with the standing foot. Lift the standing heel ever so slightly from the floor and that's what moves first. Divide the room into 8 sections - wall, corner, wall, corner, wall corner, etc. Now, skim that standing heel to the next corner or wall - along with your spot. At first this dividing of the room into 8 sections will seem bumpy but once you get the hang of it - it will smooth out and the pivot will look like (and feel like) a smooth circular pivot. Lead with your heel, skim it along the floor, spot at the same time - don't leave anything behind such as your "following" shoulder. Once you get it smooth, do it in attitude (its easier than arabesque) and then finally in arabesque. The trick to keeping your arabesque leg steady is to raise it and lock it in place with your back muscles. When you first practice this way of doing pivot do it en dedans (turning toward the standing leg) because it is easier. Then work on it en dehors (turning away from the standing leg). Lead with the heel, do only 1/8th of the room at a time, leave nothing behind. Let me know how it goes. Anjuli - This has been very helpful, thank you for the advice. So far I've tried the pivots the way you've described with the foot sur la coup de pied at the back, and also in a low mini-attitude just off the supporting foot. I've tried spotting each corner in a spot, pivot to corner, spot, pivot to wall, etc fashion. For some reason I've never thought about spotting in pivots before! I also find dividing the room into 8 sections very helpful. For now, I can only do this successfully by myself very slowly, practicing with a mirror in front of me so I can check if the supporting foot is turned out when I complete the circle of pivots. It looks like I'll need to get used to it before adding in a bit more speed and doing it in arabesque. I have 2 questions about the back, which might be related. You mentioned, 'The trick to keeping your arabesque leg steady is to raise it and lock it in place with your back muscles.' I have been told I should use my back muscles more, and while I understand what it means (I think) I don't know how to activate them more, if that makes sense. So even for something 'simple' like holding the arm in 2nd during a barre exercise, how would I use my back more? Am I right to think it's the same feeling for 'locking the back leg in place' for arabesque? I have been told to imagine my arms being long, but I think I need more imagery or specific exercises? My back is not very bendy, which I find a bit restricting, such as in grand battement derriere and develope derriere. However, I can place the palms of my hands flat on the floor with straight legs and rise to demi-pointe at the same time. I have been told this shows useful flexibility for ballet, but my back seems to have less natural range. So I was wondering if there are any safe ways for encouraging more range of movement in the back? Edited January 12, 2014 by Dancer Sugar Plum 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Anjuli - This has been very helpful, thank you for the advice. So far I've tried the pivots the way you've described with the foot sur la coup de pied at the back, and also in a low mini-attitude just off the supporting foot. I've tried spotting each corner in a spot, pivot to corner, spot, pivot to wall, etc fashion. For some reason I've never thought about spotting in pivots before! I also find dividing the room into 8 sections very helpful. For now, I can only do this successfully by myself very slowly, practicing with a mirror in front of me so I can check if the supporting foot is turned out when I complete the circle of pivots. It looks like I'll need to get used to it before adding in a bit more speed and doing it in arabesque. I have 2 questions about the back, which might be related. You mentioned, 'The trick to keeping your arabesque leg steady is to raise it and lock it in place with your back muscles.' I have been told I should use my back muscles more, and while I understand what it means (I think) I don't know how to activate them more, if that makes sense. So even for something 'simple' like holding the arm in 2nd during a barre exercise, how would I use my back more? Am I right to think it's the same feeling for 'locking the back leg in place' for arabesque? I have been told to imagine my arms being long, but I think I need more imagery or specific exercises? My back is not very bendy, which I find a bit restricting, such as in grand battement derriere and develope derriere. However, I can place the palms of my hands flat on the floor with straight legs and rise to demi-pointe at the same time. I have been told this shows useful flexibility for ballet, but my back seems to have less natural range. So I was wondering if there are any safe ways for encouraging more range of movement in the back? A good stretch/strengthener for arabesque: Stand at the barre in fifth position, sideways, with one hand on the barre. Tendu your outside foot to the back. Now, do your very best back bend, remembering to obey all the rules of alignment and with ABSOLUTELY no weight on your back tendu foot. Now at the depth of your backbend, lock into that back leg with your back muscles, come up bringing your tendu back leg with you into arabesque. Don't come up one inch without bringing your arabesque leg with you. Keep it coming up, up, up, and then go into penché without unlocking that arabesque leg from your back. When you've hit the extent of your penché, come back up to arabesque - leg still locked in your back. If you don't like the word "locked" then think of it as "engaging" your back muscles. As for your arms - think of them coming out from your spine. They don't begin at your shoulders - they begin from your spine. This will give them more sweep - a freer movement - lighter. None of this happens overnight - but if you work on it - it will change the aura of your dance. And remember to breathe. As for the pivots - you said you are using a mirror to check to see if the supporting leg is turned out. Learn to feel it - there's no mirror on stage. If you are in control of the standing heel - skimming it forward for en dedans and retarding it for en dehors - it will be turned out. The pivot and spot happen simultaneously. Everything happens as one piece - just like a statue. When one part moves before or after the other that's when you get in trouble. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 All those lovely tips to work on! I sall certainly try the arabesque streach, thank you Anjuli. Going back to grand jete en tournant... it took me a day to realise that it is what I learned as jete entrelace. This is my favourite one, I just love that "flying in the air" feeling, particularly when I am coming down after having half-turned in the air. That's notwithstanding the fact that I would still need to work on this step - I seem to start turning my body to early... I seem to remenber this step being taught when I was learning ballet (russian based, non-syllabus) as a child - but it puzzles me as it seems such an advance step to teach for mid-way through the 2nd years of ballet (I was about 9 or 10). But then I seem to remember very little about these classes. My old teacher still teaches, it seems. ...and myy mother still keeps my stage tutus from those days, bless her... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) I also need to address three specific areas this year on top of the above: First is improved and sustained leg extension though increased power to utilise my full existing flexibility. Second: Larger range in back bends particularly the lower back. Third: Better foot articulation, in spite of all the classes I do, this is something that is not fully address on a regular enough basis, its something I need to do anyway and I guess this will be to some extent be through hi repetition. For 1 and 2 I will be seeking the views and possible one to one help from my Body Balance instructor which works at my local gym, but she has no ballet experience If everyone is as concerned as suggested and wants to help, well there it is, all ideas welcome, now go for it. Finally A special little thank you to Straceydor. Michelle, Your last comment quoted above made me think you felt 'picked on'. If I am wrong I don't mind being corrected at all. I don't want you to feel that you are 'picked on', and I'm sure everyone else on this forum feels the same. Because I was worried you felt 'picked on' I wasn't sure whether I should reply to your request. But incase you find it useful, and incase there are forum readers who would find it useful, here are my thoughts. About the first area you want to work on ('improved and sustained leg extension') I think you mean you would like your legs to go higher and be able to hold them up en l'air for longer. If I'm wrong about what you're asking, please correct me. But if I'm correct, in my personal opinion I don't think your Body Balance instructor is the best person to help you because you said, 'she has no ballet experience'. If she hasn't had any ballet experience you would have to explain to her ballet teachnique. This could become a time-consuming exercise for you. I don't mean that the instructor is not good at what she does. But for something as specific as increasing/improving the height of your extension, you would have to explain to her about the need to keep turnout no matter what the height is, using and strengthening the inner thighs and centre, etc. This is why I'm saying it might end up being time-consuming for you. Anjuli has mentioned a great excercise for increasing extension in post 367. I think it would be more worthwhile to ask for some private lessons from a teacher you work well with and explain what you want to work on. The advantage of working with a ballet teacher is that she/he can check your alignment; it's easy to 'cheat' in ballet. So if you do an exercise like the one Anjuli covers in post 367, your teacher can check if you're raising the working hip to help you raise the leg off the barre (as an example). With your second request ('larger range in back bends') I've asked Anjuli about improving range in the back, which she has answered in post 392. But this is also something a ballet teacher in a private lesson can help you with because she/he can check that you are bending back safely and not straining any areas of your back or neck. The other suggestion I have is joining a pilates class. Again, I would suggest finding an instructor, who has done ballet. I once tried a pilates class, which had a lovely instructor. However, she had never done ballet, so she wouldn't have known what you meant if you had said to her, 'I'd like to increase my back range for ballet'. It's easier to work with someone who knows exactly what you're talking about, without you having to explain what an arabesque is, what a develope is, etc. I hope you find this helpful. Edited January 13, 2014 by Dancer Sugar Plum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 ...and myy mother still keeps my stage tutus from those days, bless her... That is very sweet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 A good stretch/strengthener for arabesque: Stand at the barre in fifth position, sideways, with one hand on the barre. Tendu your outside foot to the back. Now, do your very best back bend, remembering to obey all the rules of alignment and with ABSOLUTELY no weight on your back tendu foot. Now at the depth of your backbend, lock into that back leg with your back muscles, come up bringing your tendu back leg with you into arabesque. Don't come up one inch without bringing your arabesque leg with you. Keep it coming up, up, up, and then go into penché without unlocking that arabesque leg from your back. When you've hit the extent of your penché, come back up to arabesque - leg still locked in your back. If you don't like the word "locked" then think of it as "engaging" your back muscles. As for your arms - think of them coming out from your spine. They don't begin at your shoulders - they begin from your spine. This will give them more sweep - a freer movement - lighter. None of this happens overnight - but if you work on it - it will change the aura of your dance. And remember to breathe. As for the pivots - you said you are using a mirror to check to see if the supporting leg is turned out. Learn to feel it - there's no mirror on stage. If you are in control of the standing heel - skimming it forward for en dedans and retarding it for en dehors - it will be turned out. The pivot and spot happen simultaneously. Everything happens as one piece - just like a statue. When one part moves before or after the other that's when you get in trouble. Thank you Anjuli, I will definitely try the tendu with back bend exercise and think of my arms coming from my spine during class. I'll try practicing the pivots without a mirror as well and not spot separately from the pivot movement. Your help is much appreciated. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi Dancer Sugar Plum Firstly thank you for replying to my post, for a while I thought I was never going to get a response when I turned things around and said these are the issue I want to address, any ideas?. I thought for a moment, here we go, nothing to criticise, they must be Sunday afternoon dancers not to be taken seriously. But at least you replied. If someone shows concern for me, of course I will thank them, it is only right and proper in my book to do so. Similarly I usually thank the teacher and pianist at virtually every class I go to, that just me, for them it’s recognition that they are appreciated. As for being picked on I thought Tulip had summed that up well in post #372, however I do feel things were getting catty with constant reference to me returning to beginner classes because it seemed very much as if this was down to the fact I didn’t belong to the same club of attending many years ballet classes. One point I made many times but it fell on deaf ears, time is not on my side. OK about the leg extension ('improved and sustained leg extension'), first of all flexibility to get it there is reasonably OK, I'm 5ft 3, with momentum I can top 5ft 7, but I cannot do a static lift and hold. I have already spoke to a number of teachers on this one, most seem to think I should be happy with what I have (Grrr they must think I'm old and past it), one of my teachers did bring in a number of books covering this item, but generally I'm doing those things anyway. I'm not saying I haven't improved things, as I'm basically from a scientific background I tend to measure things, admittedly the only measurements are devant. When I first started to record my results my dead lift for the right leg was 2ft 11, now its best is 4ft 2, the left leg was 3ft 6, best now 4ft 8. One element that accounts for about 6inches is a Splits stretch when warm before hand. Difference between best and average at most is a couple of inches. As for lifting on and off the barre, that really is no problem. I have both fixed and portable barres in my own studio, the fixed is 3ft 3 high, the portable which is a double barre is 3ft bottom, and 3ft 10 top. As for where it is in second, I'm not really sure other than it is above 90, but not as much as 135, but I can hold it there in class. I always resist the fall, otherwise if you just let it go the foot flexes which look rubbish, however I am aware that my foot is not quite as strait as I would like it, so I hold that tension there until the foot hits tendu on the decent. For me to get above 135degrees on the developee used in Odette's solo with the double beat would be the icing on the cake. I think the key to this is to be able to contact and utilise the iliopsoas, rather than rely on the abs, I'm not sure I'm doing that, or doing that properly. I know in our body balance class we go into a tree pose, well at least the others do, I go for a retire with a flat supporting foot, my toe is always above the knee and I think my working leg is at 90 degrees to the body. That is certainly a lot harder than the tree pose which is taught there, by my instructor does not seem to mind as she knows of my ballet background. That is supposed to use the iliopsoas, but I'm not sure how to visualise or sense it in any meaningful way. As my Body Balance Instructor is a qualified full time gym instructor that seems to know her way around muscle groups etc, and Body Balance consists of a good deal of Pilate and Yoga. As for turnout and alignment, I will worry about those. Backbends, yes I will try Anjuly’s suggestions. We seem to have a good deal of opportunity in Body Balance to exercise this one and I do push my limits as far as I dare, and I can certainly feel the pinch in my lower back, but I am sure I should be able to go further. UPDATE Visit to London on Saturday went well, although I did have to stop off at Boot at Kings Cross and get some gel pads to support the ankles in my shoes against the hard concrete surfaces, otherwise they were fine. Did my first body balance class today, in bare feet as always. However I held back as another issue appeared at the last class before Christmas. The Gym was cold as it had a canopy all round it in preparation for a party. Not taking account of that, there is a splits type exercise we go through, I felt my left leg go, I thought I had caught it in time, a couple of days later in my own gym after a good warm up on the treadmill I gradually lowered down into splits, it was still there. I tried again yesterday (after a couple of weeks), it seemed clear, then all of a sudden it hit me, no second chance. The muscle itself does not appear to be a problem for most movement, so I hope it wont impact my ballet too much until it heels, it just a real annoyance. In any case will get it checked out with Physio tomorrow. So far its full steam ahead for LAB on Thursday, I have a video of the Rep they did last week to help me catch up, that’s fantastic, they have the same mind-set as I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Michelle: Would you be so kind as to explain this iin your post #397?: "I thought for a moment, here we go, nothing to criticise, they must be Sunday afternoon dancers not to be taken seriously." Who is "they"? It can't mean yourself - since you are not a "they." It couldn't be you in any case since it is more than obvious that you are not a Sunday afternoon dancer not to be taken seriously. Does "they" mean those of us who post in this thread? I want to be sure I understand your meaning. Thanks. As for responding to any particular post....one can't demand a response. People have many reasons for responding or not and it should not be seen as personal rejection. Is it not possible to have a pleasant interchange on the subject of adults and ballet without it being about one particular agenda? Ask me a question - a true request for information - not a platform for an agenda - and I promise a courteous reply "if" I possess the information, , A response is a courtesy - not subject to a critique for the lack there of. And - it really does bother me that many people are feeling the need to respond defensively - constantly stipulating their good intentions constantly qualifying their words.. This shouldn't be necessary beyond the usual norms of courteous communication. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi Anjuli In previous posting following my injury I took a lot of flack, both me personally, my physio and my teachers too, the implication that we were all rubbish, that why in the end I gave examples of my rubbish technique of not specifically following a teachers instructions. For me I was using my own initiative and talent the BEST way I know how. Admittedly some teachers may get upset, others complement what I do by demonstrating technique in a similar way, which happed recently at one of my rep workshops, as I know it is a fine line I tread between the acceptable and unacceptable. But at the end of the day I’m not passive but a thinking dancer with a lot of fire in my belly I attempted to turn things around, I assumed there was a helpful body of knowledge out there, but the silence was defining. It seems when there is something negative to say everyone has an opinion, request for specific help, nothing. I know I could not demand a response, but when I can help others I most definitely do. As for naming names as to THEY, quite simply I’m not going there, as it’s know where useful to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi Anjuli In previous posting following my injury I took a lot of flack, both me personally, my physio and my teachers too, the implication that we were all rubbish, that why in the end I gave examples of my rubbish technique of not specifically following a teachers instructions. For me I was using my own initiative and talent the BEST way I know how. Admittedly some teachers may get upset, others complement what I do by demonstrating technique in a similar way, which happed recently at one of my rep workshops, as I know it is a fine line I tread between the acceptable and unacceptable. But at the end of the day I’m not passive but a thinking dancer with a lot of fire in my belly I attempted to turn things around, I assumed there was a helpful body of knowledge out there, but the silence was defining. It seems when there is something negative to say everyone has an opinion, request for specific help, nothing. I know I could not demand a response, but when I can help others I most definitely do. As for naming names as to THEY, quite simply I’m not going there, as it’s know where useful to go. Personally, I didn't read "flack", I read concern of people for you and your dancing. As you keep saying you want to keep dancing as long as you can, I think people were suggesting caution and rest and querying some of the things you were apparently advised in many instances because of their own experience. Perhaps people now feel wary of offering advice because it always seems to be turned back on them? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi Anjuli In previous posting following my injury I took a lot of flack, both me personally, my physio and my teachers too, the implication that we were all rubbish, that why in the end I gave examples of my rubbish technique of not specifically following a teachers instructions. For me I was using my own initiative and talent the BEST way I know how. Admittedly some teachers may get upset, others complement what I do by demonstrating technique in a similar way, which happed recently at one of my rep workshops, as I know it is a fine line I tread between the acceptable and unacceptable. But at the end of the day I’m not passive but a thinking dancer with a lot of fire in my belly I attempted to turn things around, I assumed there was a helpful body of knowledge out there, but the silence was defining. It seems when there is something negative to say everyone has an opinion, request for specific help, nothing. I know I could not demand a response, but when I can help others I most definitely do. As for naming names as to THEY, quite simply I’m not going there, as it’s know where useful to go. ....and thus I conclude that "they" are "us." I'm am so tired of this innuendo and refrain... And, so, - here is mine: This thread is no longer one in which I want to participate. If anyone has a question or an issue in which they might want me to respond or be a part of - please start another thread. (Good post, Janet - but I think it is hopeless - how many times and in how many ways have we all said the same thing?) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dancersmum Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'm quite frankly astounded at the comment" I thought I was never going to get a response when I turned things around and said these are the issue I want to address, any ideas?. I thought for a moment, here we go, nothing to criticise, they must be Sunday afternoon dancers not to be taken seriously." I never realised there was a time limit for replying, silly me. I'm with Anjuli in that I am sick of all the innuendos and little comments here and there. We're all supposed to be adults who can have a conversation and agree to disagree with each other without the little digs. If you look back at page one of this thread, the tone was set and I too will not be participating in this thread again, despite loving following the journeys of adult dancers and the insights into technique. Enough is quite simply enough 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I was actually going to make a comment myself, but I agree with you Anjuli, people have only wanted to offer help and support to Michelle. I don't think part of this thread needs fuelling and attention any further. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi Janet Re “I think people were suggesting caution and rest and querying some of the things you were apparently advised in many instances because of their own experience.” As regards caution and rest, if you recall I ceased all workouts and ballet activity for the past 3 weeks, I also ceased the physio’s procedure, admittedly I physically could no longer do them. Do you think Im not just a little bit scared of returning back to ballet this week, I have had to take an educated view against my recovery, that if I phase it in by Thursday l should be sufficiently recovered for a single class, others to be phase in later, I think that qualifies for a cautious approach. This of course is dependant upon my physio tomorrow. Finally I am especially sorry that Anjuli feels that “this thread is no longer one in which I want to participate” . Well it seem many of you feel the same way as Anjuli, so what ever I do it will be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well it seem many of you feel the same way as Anjuli, so what ever I do it will be wrong. Oh just grow up. This is meant to be a thread about adult ballet, not 5 year olds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I sometime wish I was 5 year old, rather than treading on egg shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Oh dear have been away for a couple of days and things seemed to have come to some sort of impasse here. I was going to report back on some of the technique issues had started to discuss a few days ago but not much point until I see what happens with the thread or whether a new one is started which could be along the lines of Technical issues/ questions for the Adult amateur dancer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Oh dear have been away for a couple of days and things seemed to have come to some sort of impasse here. I was going to report back on some of the technique issues had started to discuss a few days ago but not much point until I see what happens with the thread or whether a new one is started which could be along the lines of Technical issues/ questions for the Adult amateur dancer? Please go ahead and bring the thread back to its proper course with your thoughts on the technical issues. I don't think we need another thread! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Lin when I opened this thread, I stated it was not mine, and in any case I think I've probably been sent to Coventry now so for goodness make use it. The thread should not belong to anyone person, that's why I came off the other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well if Anjuli or others are still reading I wanted to ask another question about the brisee! Anjuli you suggested a strong swish with the leg before the beat. I know you are supposed to get the supporting leg then to leave the floor to join the swished leg so to speak to do the beat(and this is where my weakness lies at the moment I think.....to get enough strength to really push that supporting leg forward .......but is there a dynamic in the brisee of trying......with that initial swish to travel as far forward on the diagonal as possible......rather than a just up ward movement to get the beat in......is there a strong feeling for forwards and along. this is of course for anyone either teaching or attempting to do brisees (as well as Anjuli) I haven't had a chance to try out the pivot yet but should do in my Wednesday class. I'll have a go at the exercise to support arabesque but I do know that when I do a back bend with the leg extended in tendu derrière this does cause a restricted feeling in the lower back but maybe it is this restricted feeling which needs working through and pushed a little!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I never said the other thread belonged to anyone, Michelle. You managed to turn it in to one all about you, with the same digs at people as you have here. I shall not comment any further as it is a waste of time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Being a bit floor bound in the ballet world right now I have been working more on back strength/mobility. This exercise comes from a dance injury rehab programme. If you lie on your stomach flex one foot, rotate the leg to turn out and pointe the foot maintaining as much turnout as you can. Gradually lift this leg behind you off the floor and you can take the hip of the raised leg slightly off the floor then slowly lower. Repeat about 4 times on each leg. This should help with strength/mobility in lower back from a non weight bearing position. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straceydor Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think you will find that the " picked on" statement was mine and not Michelle's. Yes Michelle can stand up for herself well done Michelle. I have previously privately messaged Michelle before with support. I think you should all reread all of the threads on here which Michelle has wrote and which some one has commented on about her, then think about everything from her perspective I still think that you pull to pieces things that Michelle writes on here and not others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 This thread is about adult ballet. Do you have anything useful to say about it or only want to indulge in a playground tiff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straceydor Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Fiz I believe I was told that to write on this forum incites comment. I was just answering a comment already started . " Indulge in a playground tiff" I believe that's what you are doing I was only putting someone else straight. Yes this thread is about Adult ballet but your comment isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 So why do you only comment when you feel Michelle has been "picked on" as I believe you put it? You never add anything about adult ballet itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Straceydor, I admire your supportive stance. However, if you go back and read every post in this thread from the viewpoint of an unbiased bystander, you may well see that: Michelle is not being "picked on". When Michelle posts, her words are often provocative and sometimes make paranoid accusations towards other forum members. In the past she has been disrespectful to and about teachers and has been gently reminded that this is not acceptable. It has occurred to me that if Michelle contradicts teachers, and tries to correct her fellow pupils - which by her own admission she has done - then this could make her a less than ideal fellow student to some people. They are perfectly within their rights to voice this opinion. Personally it is my feeling that Michelle likes a good debate and tries to provoke people into responding. If they respond with advice, this is generally ignored or deflected with paranoid accusations that people are suggesting Michelle is "rubbish" and that she should "give up". In the light of such accusations, people have withdrawn and decided - as is their wont - not to respond to Michelle's posts. Then, they are accused of ignoring her. What I think has happened is that other Forum Members have become tired of this endless round of stubborn posts, ignoring concern, paranoid accusations and general drama and they have declined to take part any more. That is their prerogative. This pattern, after all, continued for many many pages and into two separate threads. We cannot insist that any one forum member interacts with another. If people have grown tired of doing battle with Michelle, that is up to them. I cannot see that you now arguing with other posters, and reprimanding them for "picking on" Michelle, is constructive. If you wish to re-read every post in this and the previous thread then by all means do so. But by giving other forum members a telling off I do not believe you are helping the situation one bit. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 I've said it before: I believe that Michelle's posts, which do take up a disproportionate amount of 'space' on this thread, would be better placed in her own personal blog on her ballet journey or whatever she chooses to call it. A forum invites discussion, comment and, sometimes, advice but, judging from many of her posts, I don't think that this is what Michelle really wants. A blog obviously can attract comments but it is not a discussion between two or more people in the same way as a forum is. If you don't want feedback on your posts, or only want certain types of feedback (which I feel is the case with Michelle) then a blog, which is effectively your own forum, almost exclusively made up of your own posts, is, IMO, the best vehicle for lengthy posts on your ballet journey (or whatever you choose to call it). 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) [...] for a while I thought I was never going to get a response when I turned things around and said these are the issue I want to address, any ideas?. I thought for a moment, here we go, nothing to criticise, they must be Sunday afternoon dancers not to be taken seriously. [...] [emphasis added by mimi66]. Just for the record. I chose not to respond to Michelle's post about her new "agenda", but not for the reason she would like to believe. No doubt other members of the fourm thought the same and chose the same course of action. If somebody thinks she knows it all, and positively disregards her teachers' instructions during the class and dares to criticise them (on the totally wrong and irrelavant points,due to her own inexperience and ignorance) in less than 18 months (give or take) since she first came to anything... and has not learned anything over the past 12 months or so since she came to this forum - I do not think that is a hardly surprising reaction. Before complaining that she and her opinion is not being taken seriousely, she should consider how disrespectful she has been to those who have more experience and experties, and to ballet as an art form. I feel that many people felt deeply uncomfortable with her desrespect to ballet itself and have decided not to engage with this person any more. Edited January 14, 2014 by mimi66 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straceydor Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Do some of you believe that "teachers" are right all of the time? Well I am here to tell you that they are human beings who are not gods Even those with many years of experience are not always right or not always right in everyone's eyes. I am not a dancer which has already been stated. I don't always comment because of this and I am no composer of words. I came on this forum to learn. Reading about adult dancing and some ones journey is enlightening. Michelle is the only consistent writer on what she has been doing. Choosing not to read or comment is your choice and a good one but when ones words have been continually been commented about then you expect it. I did not want to start this discussion but just wanted to reply (which is polite) to those who commented on mine. Hence the picked on is my wording etc. If you would like a ballet question from me Fiz what is the correct angle for first position for the feet is it 180 or is it somewhere between that and 90 degrees? discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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