Simply Adult Ballet: the progress of one adult dancer who took up ballet later in life

[Sheila Beelam]

Yes it's a few class and did tax my brain, but we got to do pointe and it meant I had a break from tax returns so I was happy!

I've not seen the thread so will investigate later - off to booty barre class now with non DD, the closest she'll get to a ballet barre!

Ps may be wearing practice or romantic tutu bases at SI x

[aileen]

What's 'booty barre class'? The mind boggles.

[Sheila Beelam]

Haha it's not as bad as it sounds! It's a combination of pilates, yoga and dance. Mainly done at a barre. Focus on core, and it's a great way for me to exercise with non DD

[LinMM]

I was wondering what a booty barre is too!! Is this the barre that gives you most reward(booty as in treasure) sounds good though!

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi terpsichore

 

That’s an interesting mind-set you have.

 

My confidence had taken a knock a week or two ago when I fell flat on my face trying to do posés pirouettes that I had not really mastered and I was starting to ask myself whether at age 65 I wasn't getting a little bit too old for this ballet malarkey.

For me, I think if you are going to learn new movements that include balance like pirouettes and turns then its likely at some point or other you may loose your balance and fall over. The more complicated and demanding it is, the more its likely, it simply goes with the territory.

 

Personally I cant stand a teacher which says “do be careful”, as I silently sense the word “DEAR”, meaning you really shouldn’t be doing that at your age, Grrr, that annoys me no end. I much prefer the type of class where if you fall over, you are expected to get yourself up and try again.

 

I have to learn and practice a sequence which consists of a double en dehors pirouette launched from fourth, but stops with a step on to the gesturing leg in front (strait), so the pivoting leg extends in the air behind, pause, then swish through to the front and drops into fourth as preparation for the next pirouette. There are five of these to be done in line, one after the other. Whilst one done in isolation isn’t too challenging, but to do 5 seamless connected pirouettes in line is very challenging and I expect to end up on my bum more than once before I master it.

 

 

Lin

 

Did you ever do Pilate at the Chelsea Ballet Summer School as that was an option, when you do the LAB intensive its an integral part of the course. I do two classes of Body Balance every week which is a combination of Pilates, Yoga and Tai Chi, I’m also hoping to add at least one of my own which is based on a combination of a couple of advanced Pilates DVD for dancers.

 

LAB was good last night, we’ve added some more on to the two reps we learnt last week, I love building it up in that way and getting a video for homework during the week, that really works for me and you can clearly see where you have gone wrong. I certainly picked up a direction issue that I was not aware off in class. There were four of us in formation going across the room which was fine, then the formation changed, I though somehow I was to remain in my original position, but in reality it changed so I was in a lead position closest to the audience before we changed position again.

 

Transport to LAB at RAD HQ was a little challenging again, this time the Victoria Line was close, so I had to take the longer route of Piccadilly Line to South Kensington, the Circle line to Victoria. This time I only waited 5 minutes for the 170bus and 20minutes later I was at RAD HQ.

 

Well I’m still walking, but my feet did take some pasting again last night, two more classes adding for next week too. I think the combination of correct heel drops followed by ice on the Achilles for ten minutes is showing real benefits of recovery.

 

Lin I don’t think you will be expected to wear a sticky out tutu for LAB intensive, I’m sure it will be an option, but you know me, I’m just a show off. Do you perhaps have a long romantic tutu that can be used with a nice leo, otherwise I guess its St Trinians.

[LinMM]

Well I was rather regretting that I don't think there are any peasants in the Sleeping Beauty are there? There are huntresses though or is that Swan Lake? It's all fairies birthday girls or wicked fairy demons!! Maybe I could get a part as one of Carabosse's helpers....they definitely don't wear tutus!!

 

Years ago I used to be a Friend of the Lyric Theatre in Hammersmith in London. They were doing a play called The House of Bernardo Alba with Glenda Jackson and Joan Plowright and I think Amanda Root. Well they wanted some extras for the first scene set at a funeral. So I went along with about 20 others and they were choosing peasants or Ladies. You can guess which part they linked my face with....I know my place!! It was in fact a wonderful experience having a walk on part in this play but that's another story!

So I guess you are right it probably won't be a tutu for me but hey it might not be St.Trinians either as I may have my smart new degas leotard by then. I can always buy one of those longer style wrap skirts for performances come to think about it. They are quite floaty looking!!

[Terpsichore]

That’s an interesting mind-set you have.

 

For me, I think if you are going to learn new movements that include balance like pirouettes and turns then its likely at some point or other you may loose your balance and fall over. The more complicated and demanding it is, the more its likely, it simply goes with the territory.

 

Personally I cant stand a teacher which says “do be careful”, as I silently sense the word “DEAR”, meaning you really shouldn’t be doing that at your age, Grrr, that annoys me no end. I much prefer the type of class where if you fall over, you are expected to get yourself up and try again.

 

I have to learn and practice a sequence which consists of a double en dehors pirouette launched from fourth, but stops with a step on to the gesturing leg in front (strait), so the pivoting leg extends in the air behind, pause, then swish through to the front and drops into fourth as preparation for the next pirouette. There are five of these to be done in line, one after the other. Whilst one done in isolation isn’t too challenging, but to do 5 seamless connected pirouettes in line is very challenging and I expect to end up on my bum more than once before I master it.

 

Hi Michelle_Richer

 

It is good to see you have made a good recovery as everyone had hoped you would and that you have resumed your training programme for which I wish you well.

 

Actually picking myself up and carrying on with the exercise is exactly what I did.  I told the teacher that the only thing that was hurt was my dignity and made light of it. I am not sure she was satisfied because she asked me more than once in the course of the class whether I was sure I was OK. The truth is that I did shake myself up and and incurred some scratches, grazes and bruises which are still with me.

 

I was actually a little too ambitious that day. I normally take a beginners' class on Thursdays but that clashed with professional commitments in London so I took the Tuesday improvers' class instead as I hate missing a class. After the improvers' class there was a short class advertised as a choreographic class but actually a slightly more advanced class than the earlier class. In that class we did jumps and turns that we had not been taught in the beginners' class or even the improvers' class.

 

I had actually been shown how to do pose pirouettes elsewhere some time ago and thought I would be alright. We were given the option of an easy turn or a hard one and I like a fool chose the hard one to keep up with the other two students. However, I did not spot, felt giddy and lost my balance.

 

On the way home I received a call from a member of my staff who asked me whether there was anything wrong as I did not sound quite right. I told him that I had taken a fall but was OK. That elicited the question of how I came to fall so I told him that I had just taken a ballet lesson. The reaction was as follows and you have to read it with an estuary accent:

 

"What! You doing ballet at your age. I don't believe it. What on earth are you doing that for. Nobody pays you to take ballet lessons. What would have happened to your client if you had hurt yourself and couldn't turn up on Thursday."

 

Now although nobody likes being carpeted there is a lot of sense in that reprimand, I am self-employed and can't afford to take time off. I do ballet for fun partly because it is a complete contrast to my day job which I Iove. Also, it is the day job that pulls in the moolah and it is the moolah which enables me to indulge my interests one of which is ballet.  I have to keep my sense of priorities.

Edited January 24, 2014 by terpsichore

[Sheila Beelam]

What a wonderful story Linda and a fabulous experience!

 

My only ever part in a play was at school at about 10yrs of age when they were casting the Wizard of Oz and I got the Wicked Witch of the East, Mrs Pinch Face (apparently) I had to pretend to ride a bike with a toy Toto in the basket, laugh wickedly and die. From that moment on I decided the stage was not for me...

 

...sorry, I digress, back to adult ballet, we are just producing samples of pretty swishy wrap skirts for adults...watch our fb page for updates Linda

[LinMM]

I'll definitely be on to it!!

 

Luckily I didn't have to speak in this part Sheila!! Just hang about at the back in a peasant like sort of way!!

[Terpsichore]

Years ago I used to be a Friend of the Lyric Theatre in Hammersmith in London. They were doing a play called The House of Bernardo Alba with Glenda Jackson and Joan Plowright and I think Amanda Root. Well they wanted some extras for the first scene set at a funeral. So I went along with about 20 others and they were choosing peasants or Ladies. You can guess which part they linked my face with....I know my place!! It was in fact a wonderful experience having a walk on part in this play but that's another story!

 

I remember that play and it may well have been at The Lyric. Perhaps I saw you on stage.

 

I also remember the Lyric because my school was on the borders of Hammersmith and West Kensington. I remember that the theatre was in a very dilapidated state at that time and was about to be demolished.

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Sheila

I think you require a little therapy to get you over performance nerves and join Linda and my self at the Royal Ballet School for LAB’s Spring Intensive.

 

Just had a look at your site, if ever you do a tutu dress similar to the one displayed on “The New York City’s Professional Training Program” flyer, it matches well with Giselle for Giselle’s first variation in act 3.

 

Lin

Have you ever considered a romantic tutu, it just the bottom part which is quite long and flattering, you have seen my Lincoln pictures, that is the type I’m wearing, then a leo of your choice to match.

 

I need to get a London dance studio booked for February, for some one-to-one rep coaching, have spent most of the morning emailing lots of studio’s, I found one yesterday that sounds brilliant but there is a possible timing issue, need to get things sorted Monday before I go to my first class at 10am, no rest for the wicked .

Edited January 25, 2014 by Michelle_Richer

[Michelle_Richer]

Back to full time this week. Body balance today was hard work, we had a different teacher as our regular one has gone skiing. Some of the other girls moaned too, so I guess it’s not just my drop in fitness while recovering from injury, which is what I first suspected, but I was quite tired at the end of class. Stamford ballet class was fantastic, they we doing a wonderful enchainement that had been cribbed from the grade 5’s performance piece. My only downside is, I have missed two weeks of building the sequence, but the teacher has said she will video it for me. I gather there is still quite a bit to go, but we did spend a lot of the centre time on it, and I loved it.

 

Lincoln was good too, lots of turns and pirouettes, I was just about scraping doubles out of that sticky floor, I don’t think its quite as bad as it used to be, but it’s a long way short of most floors. I was reluctant to put in any more power as I had banged my head going over whilst doing a string of double pirouettes at the weekend, they were very fast (as was the music) with both the preparation, and close very unusual.

 

Its ENB tomorrow plus inspecting my short list of dance studios for hire.

[Michelle_Richer]

Ankles seem to be holding up wonderfully well after both classes at ENB last night and in spite all the walking I did in pursuit of dance studios for hire yesterday afternoon, only downside was the awful weather. One interesting thing we did last night was to make sure our bottoms didn’t stick out as we did a full forward bend port de bras down, we even pair up with a partner who stood sideways on to your back, to check if you were poking your bottom out. As far as I could see, it was a bit of an illusion, the legs must remain absolutely strait and the less the turn out in first the better as it allows the centre of balance to come forward a bit. When out teacher demonstrated, one of the girls looked at me, I returned to look and smiled and said “I’m saying nothing”. The legs to the bottom always go back but if the legs are strait the illusion is, it appears very much minimised. I even checked this in the next class with a different teacher.

 

Looking for a second dance studio to hire, this one is local as I have found another possible private rep coach.

[Michelle_Richer]

Things are already hotting up, went to my ballet class at the Angles theatre for the first time since my ankle problem at Christmas and found they have already started rehearsal for our summer show, so lots of catching up to do. Never the less tonight went quite well, I guess by next week I will be up to speed.

[LinMM]

Looking forward to Saturday to the Giselle workshop where hope to see you......especially after seeing Osipova on Monday. But her piqué turns at the end of that variation were so fast I thought I must be imagining it!! She almost caused a visionary blurr as in a very fast photograph!! Oh well a few lifetimes to go yet!

[Michelle_Richer]

Yes they are fast, I cant do them that fast in a circle, but just about manage on the diagonal. Doing them at half speed gives a reasonable compromise. Not sure how Rejane will treat them, they may not even be included.

 

 

I need to go through that variation a few times before Saturday to make sure my ankles are up to it as it contains quite a lot of jumping type movements. As does the pas de deux, and the friends dance, so it should be quite challenging.

[Anna C]

Ankles seem to be holding up wonderfully well after both classes at ENB last night and in spite all the walking I did in pursuit of dance studios for hire yesterday afternoon, only downside was the awful weather. One interesting thing we did last night was to make sure our bottoms didn’t stick out as we did a full forward bend port de bras down, we even pair up with a partner who stood sideways on to your back, to check if you were poking your bottom out. As far as I could see, it was a bit of an illusion, the legs must remain absolutely strait and the less the turn out in first the better as it allows the centre of balance to come forward a bit. When out teacher demonstrated, one of the girls looked at me, I returned to look and smiled and said “I’m saying nothing”. The legs to the bottom always go back but if the legs are strait the illusion is, it appears very much minimised. I even checked this in the next class with a different teacher.Looking for a second dance studio to hire, this one is local as I have found another possible private rep coach.

Michelle, my apologies if I'm not understanding you, but I didn't get this part:

 

"When out teacher demonstrated, one of the girls looked at me, I returned to look and smiled and said “I’m saying nothing”. "

 

Why did one of the girls look at you? And why did you say "I'm saying nothing"?

 

As an aside, I hope your head is better after your fall? That sounded painful. :-(

[Michelle_Richer]

I guess its that auto correct, it should be, "When OUR teacher", the centre of balance always causes the bottom to be positioned further over to the back, yes it can and should be minimised but its impossible to have completely vertical legs going up and the bottom on the top so to speak. We both see the same thing from our teachers demonstration that her bottom was noticeably over but I will add not too far. That why we smiled.

[LinMM]

Not sure what you mean!! In a forward port de bras I think the idea is not to actually ARCH your back when going forward (or another way of expressing this is pushing your ribcage forward too much) as although this may "feel" good it means you are not using the core muscles and it does make your bottom stick out more!! It's also not good for your back!! But once you are past 90 degrees with your body so to speak then you have to curl in towards the body with upper back to finish off.

You then can either come up through the spine......carry on curling all the way up to standing OR you uncurl at the bottom of the bend bring your arm to 5th and come back via a flat back from 90 degrees again.....depending how the teacher sets it. The latter return is much harder especially if the core is not very strong.

But at some point in a forward bend your bottom will be in the air by the nature of doing a forward bend!!

I do realise I may have misunderstood what you mean though!

[Anna C]

I guess its that auto correct, it should be, "When OUR teacher", the centre of balance always causes the bottom to be positioned further over to the back, yes it can and should be minimised but its impossible to have completely vertical legs going up and the bottom on the top so to speak. We both see the same thing from our teachers demonstration that her bottom was noticeably over but I will add not too far. That why we smiled.

Thanks, yes, I guessed the "our" bit - it was the rest I wasn't clear on. :-)

 

Did you mean that in your opinion the teacher wasn't performing the move correctly?

[Billyelliott]

I construed that you meant that you had looked at each other's behinds and decided to say nothing !!!!

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

I guess its that auto correct, it should be, "When OUR teacher", the centre of balance always causes the bottom to be positioned further over to the back, yes it can and should be minimised but its impossible to have completely vertical legs going up and the bottom on the top so to speak. We both see the same thing from our teachers demonstration that her bottom was noticeably over but I will add not too far. That why we smiled.

 

Your teacher is right, if done correctly, your weight should not go back behind you at all in a forward port de bras. If your weight goes back, it means you've lost the hold in your turnout during the bend forwards or your core is not strong enough to sustain the movement properly. Or both things have happened.

 

If you stand directly behind a wall and try it, you will know how difficult it is to do this 100 percent correctly. And how easy it is for your weight to go back.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Dancer Sugar Plum

[Thecatsmother]

Practicing a forward ports de bras on demi pointe (whilst at the barre) will also give you good information providing you ensure that the turn out does not slip as you do this.

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Dancing Sugar Plum

 

Welcome back to the thread.

I'm extremely sorry but I cannot agree with some of the wording associated with your comment for the following reasons:

 

“your weight should not go back behind you at all in a forward port de bras.”

 

The body in that state roughly resembles an inverted “L” shaped structure as it goes down, for a L shaped structure to be in balance on the vertical column it must be tilted so there is equal weight on both sides, otherwise you would naturally fall forward. Of course we have feet at the bottom of our vertical column (Legs), if they are fully turned out at 180 then they are not helping us to place the weight forward, however if we were in sixth position which is seldom used and often considered as no turnout in first, then some of that weight can be placed forward and remain in balance. Consequently one could ague that the poorer the turnout, the less the bottom protrudes at the back.

 

In reality we are looking for a strait leg line to and including the bottom, but it will be off vertical to maintain the centre of balance, it’s physically impossible to be otherwise. That centre of balance should go equally through the arches, in other words equally distributed between the heel and ball of the foot.

 

The wall thing you referred to, we were doing using our partner at right angles, which worked just as well.

 

 

Hi Billyelliot

 

We were looking at our teachers stance not being totally vertical (not quite the same as poking your bottom out), that stance was quite correct for the reasons I have mentioned above.

 

 

Hi Balleteacher

 

My preference in checking anything associated with balance would be to let go of barre as that can distort what you are hoping to see. I very much like the style of my Bolshoi friends at the Scottish Ballet adult class, who do much of the barre work without actually holding the barre.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Michelle_Richer

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

Hi Dancing Sugar Plum

 

Welcome back to the thread.

I'm extremely sorry but I cannot agree with some of the wording associated with your comment for the following reasons:

 

“your weight should not go back behind you at all in a forward port de bras.”

 

The body in that state roughly resembles an inverted “L” shaped structure as it goes down, for a L shaped structure to be in balance on the vertical column it must be tilted so there is equal weight on both sides, otherwise you would naturally fall forward. Of course we have feet at the bottom of our vertical column (Legs), if they are fully turned out at 180 then they are not helping us to place the weight forward, however if we were in sixth position which is seldom used and often considered as no turnout in first, then some of that weight can be placed forward and remain in balance. Consequently one could ague that the poorer the turnout, the less the bottom protrudes at the back.

 

In reality we are looking for a strait leg line to and including the bottom, but it will be off vertical to maintain the centre of balance, it’s physically impossible to be otherwise. That centre of balance should go equally through the arches, in other words equally distributed between the heel and ball of the foot.

 

The wall thing you referred to, we were doing using our partner at right angles, which worked just as well.

 

 

Hi Billyelliot

 

We were looking at our teachers stance not being totally vertical (not quite the same as poking your bottom out), that stance was quite correct for the reasons I have mentioned above.

 

Hello Michelle,

 

From your post above I think you mean that it is not possible to stop the weight going back in a forward port de bras. I would still stand by what I said in my last post that it is possible, but difficult to do correctly.

 

With the exercise standing behind a wall, the aim is to feel how difficult it would be do a complete port de bras forward. A lot of people would feel how it easy it would be to let the hips/weight go back if they tried to bend right down to their feet.

 

Balleteacher is right in post 477. On demi-pointe it is a lot easier to feel when your weight has gone back because you are balancing on a smaller surface that on the flat. So it's even more obvious if your hips go back because the weight placement in your feet will change. Having your hand on the barre helps you keep your weight forward.

 

If your hips go back, you have not pulled up first, before bending up and over your legs.

 

The Royal Ballet demonstrate correct forward port de bras beautifully in their company class - their weight/hips don't go back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EVMjnHFg-w

 

If you watch 0:01:24, 0:01:52 and 0:02:23 I think you will see what I mean.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Dancer Sugar Plum

[Billyelliott]

Can't get that link to work !

By the way Michelle my comment was meant tounge in cheek .... And I enjoyed imagining all the dancers watching each other ...I'm sure I would have ended up tipping over !

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

Hello Billyelliott,

 

I hope this link works for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EVMjnHFg-w

 

If not, if you type in 'royal ballet class' into YouTube it's the video called 'Royal Ballet Daily Class (complete video)'. It's just over 1 hour 15 minutes long.

 

It made me wish I could do what those dancers could do!

Edited February 1, 2014 by Dancer Sugar Plum

[Billyelliott]

Wonderfull that works perfectly - very inspiring and I'm only half way through !

Thank you ????

Edited February 1, 2014 by Billyelliott

[Thecatsmother]

I think there is another very common issue which can be lost in a forward ports de bras which is to remember to fully keep turnout muscles engaged. You can always test this by checking reach the bottom of your ports de bras. If turnout is not engaged from the top of the legs this will cause you to sway back off your legs as well.

 

The reference to practicing on demi pointe is as was suggested an exercise in correct weight placement as opposed to a balance exercise. It is also a great way to check turn out is engaged as more lightly to slip as you have less contact with the floor because of rise.

 

Back bends are also an important time to ensure you hold your core and turn out as this can easily go in the effort to enhance the bend.

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Dancer Sugar Plum

 

I’m so glad you put those reference times in, that was extremely helpful.

 

If you go to those you will see it illustrates my point “In reality we are looking for a strait leg line to and including the bottom, but it will be off vertical to maintain the centre of balance, it’s physically impossible to be otherwise” exactly.

 

In any case nothing untoward came out of this exercise for me in class, no correction etc, so I'm really not going to get excited about it.

 

I take your point on the comment about using the barre to support doing a full port de bra whilst on releve. However for me, I must confess I frown on anything that is associated with balance that requires holding the barre. Only tonight we were doing rond de jambes at the barre which ended in a arabesque and then a penche. As soon as the movement changed to towards the arabesque my hand came off the barre, the rest of the exercise was completed self supporting, my teacher does not have a problem with that. The rest of the class continued to used the barre.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Michelle_Richer

[Michelle_Richer]

A really good class at Lincoln tonight.

 

Although the studio was the coldest I have know it, it seem to make the floor more slippy. Lincoln has always been my worst floor for pirouettes and tendu’s due to its stickiness. One of the girls mentioned it felt a lot better and as our teacher was sorting out a sequence in her head, I tried a quick pirouette, it took me one and three quarter turns, I could never get more than a turn out of that floor. Later that evening we were doing a short enchainement from corner to corner using en dehors pirouettes. I don’t know why but I just went for a double, it executed beautifully, but I didn’t have time to complete the arabesque properly that followed, when I got to the corner I told my teacher. She told me to leave the arabesque out and go for it on the other side. All doubles on both side went like a dream, not sure how many they were, but at least 6 on each side. The gods were certainly with me tonight on that one.

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

Hi Dancer Sugar Plum

 

I’m so glad you put those reference times in, that was extremely helpful.

 

If you go to those you will see it illustrates my point “In reality we are looking for a strait leg line to and including the bottom, but it will be off vertical to maintain the centre of balance, it’s physically impossible to be otherwise” exactly.

 

In any case nothing untoward came out of this exercise for me in class, no correction etc, so I'm really not going to get excited about it.

 

I take your point on the comment about using the barre to support doing a full port de bra whilst on releve. However for me, I must confess I frown on anything that is associated with balance that requires holding the barre. Only tonight we were doing rond de jambes at the barre which ended in a arabesque and then a penche. As soon as the movement changed to towards the arabesque my hand came off the barre, the rest of the exercise was completed self supporting, my teacher does not have a problem with that. The rest of the class continued to used the barre.

 

I am still learning about correct ballet technique so I don’t mind if someone else has a different opinion from myself.

 

I am impressed that you don’t need the barre, Michelle. I wish I could say the same for myself in class. However, I would suggest that ‘frowning on anything that is associated with balance that requires holding the barre’ may not be the most useful state of mind to have. The barre is there to help you maintain correct alignment, whether you are on flat or on rise. This is harder when you are on demi-pointe.

 

I would also suggest that your fellow dancers may be holding the barre in an attempt to maintain and improve their alignment and turnout. I hope you don’t mind me saying that because someone holds onto the barre for something does not mean they are technically worse than other dancers.

[Jan McNulty]

I would also suggest that your fellow dancers may be holding the barre in an attempt to maintain and improve their alignment and turnout. I hope you don’t mind me saying that because someone holds onto the barre for something does not mean they are technically worse than other dancers.

 

 

Not that I'm a dancer but as a friend of NB and BRB I have the opportunity to watch company class and the dancers of those companies use the barre until centre work commences.