How much are our opinions of dancers' performances influenced by their social media personas?

[capybara]

I thought that I'd put this question up for discussion because the ways in which dancers use social media are so varied and I can feel my equally varied reactions seeping into me more and more.

 

Every day, my automatic feed on Instagram offers me, of course, images of dancers dancing but, often, more - much more - of artists in pretty poses related to what is described as a 'favourite leotard' (I think one ballerina had half a dozen favourites in just one week) or, at the other end of the scale, muscular 'he man' positions which, to my mind, have little to do with dance and can verge on the unattractive (to me).

Then there are some glamourous shots in enviable locations from both men and women mixed in the feed with (e.g.) the sweaty hair/headbands shown on selfies. Or the flashy 'tricks' on one hand set alongside the realism and hard graft of a rehearsal. All that is to be expected.

It goes without saying that most posts represent a form of self-promotion (an increasing number are actually paid-for advertisements in semi-disguise) and I wouldn't criticise any dancer for that. But, to answer my own question, I do think that what an individual chooses to show on social media can magnify how we perceive them as people and artists on stage. In a few cases, I wish that I could come to a performance uncluttered by some of that 'additional information' (usually "too much visual information" 😲) which chances to come my way. And, yes, there a few dancers whose social media 'personalities' have affected, negatively I'm afraid, how I perceive their dancing, however good they might really be.

[Sim]

This is a very interesting subject, Capybara.  I definitely think that I am influenced to a degree by certain dancers' public personas vs. who they are onstage.  There are definitely one or two who I can no longer bear to watch onstage because of their postings.  Others definitely do advertising (some not so subtle) but most of them do say 'sponsored content' at the top of the post.  I have nothing against this as I am all for dancers making extra money however they can, be it from guesting or advertising.  So those don't influence me at all.  It's the 'look how fabulous/gorgeous/amazing I am' posts, or occasionally political ones, that turn me off.

 

I often wonder whether I prefer the good old days before computers/social media when dancers were mystical, ethereal creatures and the only time you could connect with them was a few banal words at the stage door or reading an interview.  We never knew anything about them other than that.  Nowadays, they let us into most aspects of their lives via social media, which makes us able to relate and makes them more human than those gorgeous beings we see onstage.  Of course, there are still some dancers who remain private and off social media themselves, but are often included in their colleagues' photos.  In my case, the jury is out.  There are pros and cons to each way of being, so I'm not sure which I prefer. 

[Ondine]

13 minutes ago, Sim said:

I often wonder whether I prefer the good old days before computers/social media when dancers were mystical, ethereal creatures

 

Indeed. These days I suspect Margot Fonteyn's 'affairs' would have been splashed all over the gutter press and I think that would certainly have altered her public image!

 

Constant Lambert of course.  And a blue plaque for what I will politely call her  'love nest' 🤨

 

In 1952 she gave up the flat to her brother’s ex-wife Idell, who lived there until the 1990s. In turn, Idell lent the flat to Fonteyn for her meetings with the aviator Charles Hughesdon, with whom she had an affair for at least ten years from about 1964.   

 

 

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/blue-plaques/margot-fonteyn/

 

 

[Lizbie1]

7 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

Indeed. These days I suspect Margot Fonteyn's 'affairs' would have been splashed all over the gutter press and I think that would certainly have altered her public image!

 

Constant Lambert of course.  And a blue plaque for what I will politely call her  'love nest' 🤨

 

In 1952 she gave up the flat to her brother’s ex-wife Idell, who lived there until the 1990s. In turn, Idell lent the flat to Fonteyn for her meetings with the aviator Charles Hughesdon, with whom she had an affair for at least ten years from about 1964.   

 

 

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/blue-plaques/margot-fonteyn/

 

 

 

Ondine - I find it interesting that you refer to the "gutter press" talking about her affairs in one paragraph and go on to inform us about one in the next.

[Ondine]

Well that's from English Heritage, which gave the flat a blue plaque (there is another) and I don't think her 'affairs' are secret these days! Times change don't they? 

 

(Avert your eyes if you don't want to know more. This is the Telegraph, which may or may not be described as 'gutter press' depending on your point of view!)

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/10820362/Charles-Hughesdon-obituary.html

 

A longer relationship evolved out of a lunch with Margot Fonteyn at Hughesdon’s house in Surrey during the early 1960s — at the end of the meal he followed his guest upstairs and kissed her. “She didn’t resist,” he recalled, “but neither did she exactly melt.” From this inauspicious start they engaged in an affair which continued sporadically for the next 10 years. “As time went on she came to depend on me in many ways,” claimed Hughesdon. “For sex, certainly, but also for companionship, advice, and strength.”

 

[AnneMarriott]

I don't use any social media at all but I have found in the past that even interviews in newspapers or word-of-mouth reports from people who have met dancers have coloured my feelings about individual performers, not always positively.  I try actively to avoid anything about dancers' personal lives and opinions so I can enjoy their performances neat, as it were.

[Ondine]

Sir Frederick Ashton's biography by Julie Kavanagh  is 'warts and all'. Theatricals dahling,  theatricals. Sir Robert (Bobby) Helpmann) and his 'flying ducks'?

 

 

 

 

[capybara]

Just to be clear, in starting this thread, I was thinking of any impact dancers' own social media posts of today might be having on our ballet-watching, NOT the press's approach to private lives past or present.

 

[MAB]

It is all too easy to defame the dead - they can't sue.

[Ondine]

5 minutes ago, MAB said:

It is all too easy to defame the dead - they can't sue.

 

It's not defamation if it's true of course, and referenced by sources etc.

 

But that's getting way off topic.

[Ianlond]

A fascinating topic capybara - thank you. 
Personally, I stoped using Instagram a few years ago as I was using it too much for no benefit, but I would certainly urge anyone who hadn’t seen it to look at the ROH Insight: Interrogating the Ballerina in which (towards the end) Sarah Lamb extremely eloquently outlines her own thoughts on the subject. Very impressive. I’m glad my time at dance school was before social media & I stopped dancing professionally before Instagram really took off! 

However, as Monica Mason mentions in the same insight, dancers have historically been rather silent & even seen as stupid so I absolutely see the worth of dancers being able to express their views more clearly &, perhaps, take more agency in promoting their own career. 

[Lizbie1]

11 minutes ago, Ianlond said:

However, as Monica Mason mentions in the same insight, dancers have historically been rather silent & even seen as stupid so I absolutely see the worth of dancers being able to express their views more clearly &, perhaps, take more agency in promoting their own career. 

 

On the other hand, isn't their silence one of the main sources of their magic?

[Ondine]

37 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

On the other hand, isn't their silence one of the main sources of their magic?

 

Yet Vadim Muntigirov's autobiography was well received. He's also a keen social media user I gather.

 

I suppose it's not sharing as such that's the problem, it's what you share?

 

 

[Sabine0308]

When I've never seen a dancer live before, I am rather curious about their actual skills onstage than judging from an Instagram post, to be honest. Sometimes, I have been disappointed after high expectations, sometimes I was surprised how much better they were onstage.

Also, I'm grateful for the content dancers share, because I cannot check out everyone in person 🙂.

When it comes to self-advertising I am biased...it can be annoying (especially when it's too much and produces rather "nice poses" than dance clips). But of course, there isn't really advertising for dancers in public, compared to sports for example.🥺 So I'd say: go for it.

 

 

[Balletfanp]

46 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

I suppose it's not sharing as such that's the problem, it's what you share?

 

 

This, exactly. Dancers can post what they like, but personally I do tend to get turned off by too many product endorsements and ‘look at me’ content. It’s fine to use social media to promote your performances and to entertain (and Muntagirov is an excellent example of a dancer who seems to have got this balance right). But don’t start me on the trend toward some male dancers (who will remain nameless!) showing their all in rather too close shots of their brief underwear or with dance tights pulled so low as to be almost indecent. All a bit too ‘in your face’ for my liking (and I’m not a prude by any means)! And yes, I do find it difficult to unsee this kind of thing when I watch them perform - and not in a good way! I suppose it must get them extra followers - but that’s not for their dancing, which is obvious from some of the comments on their posts….

 

However, I just stop following them if I find myself getting irritated by the content.

[Ondine]

5 minutes ago, Balletfanp said:

some male dancers (who will remain nameless!) showing their all in rather too close shots of their brief underwear or with dance tights pulled so low as to be almost indecent

 

Blimey. I had no idea. I tend not to look at Insta much. Maybe I should do a little delving for the purposes of research, you understand... 🫣

[alison]

I agree with your last sentence, capybara, although in the case I'm thinking of it only backs up observations made elsewhere. But I'm not on social media so suspect I'm less affected.

[Tango Dancer]

14 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

Blimey. I had no idea. I tend not to look at Insta much. Maybe I should do a little delving for the purposes of research, you understand... 🫣

 

I am obviously following the wrong ones as most of the ones I follow appear fully dressed.  

 

 

 

[Balletfanp]

Most do. But some do seem to succumb to the temptation to pose in their underwear from time to time….

[MoVR]

I  like the little self produced insights into the dancer's daily lives, as it does indeed humanize them to a certain degree, which I don't mind,  because I've found that in my eyes it doesn't take away from their etherealness on stage. Granted, I've never seen any British company live (only through streams and DVD's) due to living in another country, so that might be why I'm not bothered with some extra content. 

I'm also confused on what specific people are referred to when speaking about almost indecent pictures (can only think of one off the top of my head), as I've found most content is rather tame.  

In the end, you choose who to follow and who to unfollow, but I've personally yet to see someone post something that makes me change my mind about their performances

[OnePigeon]

I don’t do Instagram, but thinking I might have to join up - sounds intriguing.  There’s nothing wrong with celebrating the physical perfection of these exalted creatures - please tell me where to look!  Just joking, I’m not that gross (yet)😆😆🧐

 

I actually hate social media and am glad that I’m not being put off dancers by viewing any narcissistic tendencies or political preaching etc.  I can’t stand all the vacuous pouting and simpering that I see from so many on social media so I’m sure it would put me off an artist if I saw this.

[Ondine]

1 minute ago, OnePigeon said:

Just joking, I’m not that gross (yet)😆😆🧐

 

Protesting too much...   😉

[OnePigeon]

3 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

Protesting too much...   😉

Absolutely!  I really am that gross. 😆🤫

Edited August 24, 2023 by OnePigeon

[LinMM]

None whatsoever for me as I’m not on Instagram or Twitter and don’t follow any dancers on social media. 
I am on Facebook though so do get odd posts from dancers posting there but I don’t “follow”them. And also see posts from ROH and ENB there and the Georgian State Ballet as I’ve obviously liked their pages at some point but that’s about it. 
There is one dancer whose Facebook posts can be very close to a certain line sometimes for me at any rate but is admirable in many other ways!!! 
I have to make mind up from seeing them perform as to whether I like their dancing or not so not influenced by what they might be posting about themselves to be honest. 

 

[Geoff]

Paying professionals for help with promotion has certainly advanced some dancers careers. I can think of one case of a ballerina (no names, no names) whose investment in her own PR pushed her ahead at the expense of other, arguably more worthy, members of the same company. I don't think this warped my judgement either way but I admit to bearing a grudge against said dancer on behalf of others. 

 

Moving on, can someone say what the "rules" at the Royal Ballet are these days? It used to be that members of the company were supposed to rely only on help provided by the company (rather as one was not supposed to go to outside coaches). Presumably a different understanding governs today's social media.

[capybara]

1 hour ago, Geoff said:

Moving on, can someone say what the "rules" at the Royal Ballet are these days? It used to be that members of the company were supposed to rely only on help provided by the company (rather as one was not supposed to go to outside coaches). Presumably a different understanding governs today's social media.

I don’t KNOW but some dancers’ accounts have the feel of being managed for them, perhaps by their agents, rather than by themselves. And, of course, there are a number of ‘artistic’ photoshoots which, in some cases, appear specifically geared towards the social media market.

 

Again I’m not sure but I think there may be guidance given to RB dancers about the timing of certain posts - i.e. not pre-empting Company announcements. I believe that Vadim Muntagirov says something about this in his autobiography.

[Ondine]

7 minutes ago, capybara said:

‘artistic’ photoshoots

 

Though those aren't really new, many many 'studio' posed shots in the past with stars of the company!  Social media has brought a wider audience of course.

[Bruce Wall]

For me - in my own mind - the answer is a definitive 'no'.  There is just so much that comes flying in our direction nowadays - and we all have to determine what is useful and what isn't - in every walk of life.  If it isn't dancing in their (i.e., the dancers' regard) - then as far as I'm concerned - in terms of my own personal interest in DANCE - it isn't relevant.  I simply don't now have the time to spend on such frivolities.  

 

There are limits, of course.  If a dancer insists on having Putin tattooed on themself .... then .... well .... I'm sorry ... FOR ME ... that's where it goes beyond the BEYOND!!! 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Bruce Wall

[capybara]

1 hour ago, Ondine said:

Though those aren't really new, many many 'studio' posed shots in the past with stars of the company!  Social media has brought a wider audience of course.

 

I was thinking of the 'artistic' photoshoots organised by the dancers themselves or their agents. I think you are referring to the special 'promotional' photo sessions arranged by Companies - for as long as I can remember as well as nowadays.

[Linnzi5]

Capybara - what an interesting post.

 

I like following some dancers on Instagram as I can see what they are dancing elsewhere and they often may show clips of themselves dancing. I find these things interesting, especially when I don’t have any performances booked. Keeps me going during dry spells!

 

Do posts/social media generally influence who I book for? Not so far. Some posters I prefer to others, certainly. I am not a huge fan of the ‘ look at me I am so attractive, wearing *insert brand name*’ as I don’t find that interesting. Totally understand sponsorship posts though. I book dancers that I find affect me - that is to say, those whose performances move me. If they appear to be lovely people on social media, great! If they’re not on social media, I don’t care.
 

if a dancer posted something I found offensive, would I book to see them? Probably not. It would influence how I view them and that, in turn, could influence my enjoyment of their artistry. I expect others would perhaps not worry? Thus far,  I have not had experience of this but am not that religious in following all social media posts. I suppose it would depend what was posted.

 

I have definitely not watched (and won’t) certain actors because of their posting, comments and attitudes to others. It can be hard to separate the real person from their fictional characters on rare occasions.

[Ondine]

8 minutes ago, capybara said:

I think you are referring to the special 'promotional' photo sessions arranged by Companies - for as long as I can remember as well as nowadays.

 

And very lovely and historically interesting they were too!

 

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/444449056958631591/

 

I suppose dancers have to make the most of a short career, which could end at any time through injury, hence the self promotion.  I know it was ever thus but in the past 'opening a studio' on retirement was what so many did.  Nowadays that's not so simple.

 

[Scheherezade]

There are many modelling shots of dancers out there at the moment, and very good they are too. The dancers know how to use their bodies, which gives an extra, more interesting dimension to the photographs or videos, and I would much rather look at them than the usual clothes-horse models. Personally, it does not in any way impinge upon how I view them as dancers. 

[Sabine0308]

(I'm not related to this platform but...😀) I would encourage those who haven't checked out Instagram to give it a try. Social media are not "evil" per se, it's how you use them and how you set the limits. E.g. you can setup an account but can opt for a setting called "private" which would be a good choice for a start, in my opinion. I use it daily and like to get daily info about dancers and musicians and their upcoming performances/concerts. It serves me well.