RB Winter Ballet Casting

[art_enthusiast]

1 hour ago, ellyb said:

I've heard Mayara Magri talk about how much she would like to dance with her real-life partner Matthew Ball and they collaborate a lot away from the RB, yet KOH never puts them together. 

 

Well he has now for Don Quixote! And their Sleeping Beauty this year was brilliant.

 

Though of course when Cesar Corrales returns I'm sure he will be back to partnering Magri in things like Swan Lake. (Which I hope will happen, as I missed them both in 2022)

 

So if only the most experienced females principals get to choose their partners, would that be mainly Nunez/Osipova/Cuthbertson/Lamb?

[ellyb]

56 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

 

Well he has now for Don Quixote! And their Sleeping Beauty this year was brilliant.

 

Though of course when Cesar Corrales returns I'm sure he will be back to partnering Magri in things like Swan Lake. (Which I hope will happen, as I missed them both in 2022)

 

So if only the most experienced females principals get to choose their partners, would that be mainly Nunez/Osipova/Cuthbertson/Lamb?

Ah, I hadn't noticed the cast changes sorry, I've not been following things closely and am a bit out of date! It will certainly be interesting then to see what happens when Corrales returns, or for things like R&J which I know they've done together elsewhere. 

 

I also wonder if the men get as much of a say as the women? Would McRae for example have as much input into his partnerships as Osipova? All very interesting, but unlikely to ever know for sure - do think it must be a tricky job for poor KOH though, having to take everyone's personal preferences into account when casting along with suitability, availability, cost etc!

[Guest oncnp]

3 hours ago, Candleque said:

This casting aside, what I'd really like to learn more about from the experts here is how much input principal dancers have on their partners. (I'm assuming most other levels have none 😉)
 

Absolutely no expert here but in Men at the Barre one of the Principal women (Hayward perhaps?) said the women do get a say but the men don't

[capybara]

1 hour ago, oncnp said:

Absolutely no expert here but in Men at the Barre one of the Principal women (Hayward perhaps?) said the women do get a say but the men don't

 

I think that that is incorrect but perhaps this is best left at "we don't really know".

[Guest oncnp]

17 minutes ago, capybara said:

 

I think that that is incorrect but perhaps this is best left at "we don't really know".

I'll check when I get home from work

[capybara]

13 minutes ago, oncnp said:

I'll check when I get home from work

Apologies,  @oncnp, I wasn’t questioning your recall of a female dancer saying that but, rather, whether it was/remained correct.

But, as I intimated, I think the issue is best left without further speculation.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by capybara

[Guest oncnp]

34 minutes ago, capybara said:

Apologies,  @oncnp, I wasn’t questioning your recall of a female dancer saying that but, rather, whether it was/remained correct.

But, as I intimated, I think the issue is best left without further speculation.

 

 

I doubt the ROH would have allowed it if it wasn't true then at least.  Whether it is true now is as you say another issue. 

[Sim]

6 hours ago, capybara said:

 

There's an Insight advertised in the ROH Magazine entitled Manon at 50!

A bit off subject (apologies), but this reminds me....Fille turned 60 in 2020.  Of course it couldn't be performed that year, but why haven't we had any commemoration or performance? It hasn't been scheduled nor even mentioned.  It is one of their Founder Choreographer's masterpieces and personally I think it's awful that it is now being ignored.  Other European companies are doing it, but not the RB.  Shame.

[San Perregrino]

59 minutes ago, Sim said:

A bit off subject (apologies), but this reminds me....Fille turned 60 in 2020.  Of course it couldn't be performed that year, but why haven't we had any commemoration or performance? It hasn't been scheduled nor even mentioned.  It is one of their Founder Choreographer's masterpieces and personally I think it's awful that it is now being ignored.  Other European companies are doing it, but not the RB.  Shame.

whether true or a wind up I know not, but I was told recently that the use of a live pony in Fille is no longer permitted and the use of live pigeons in Two Pigeons is no longer possible, hence their absence in the RBS excerpt. alternatives to the use of live birds and animals in these roles are under investigation. 

[Suffolkgal]

Especially as we have dancers one longs to see in the roles. It’s not the Alain thing is it? I think that’s his name! Perceived as disrespectful or prejudiced against people with metro divergence? I really hope not 

[Jan McNulty]

27 minutes ago, PeterS said:

whether true or a wind up I know not, but I was told recently that the use of a live pony in Fille is no longer permitted and the use of live pigeons in Two Pigeons is no longer possible, hence their absence in the RBS excerpt. alternatives to the use of live birds and animals in these roles are under investigation. 

 

I can't remember which venue but BRB performed Fille without a pony (I think the local council had banned "performing animals" and the cart was pulled by some of the lads.

[Pulcinella]

8 hours ago, FionaE said:

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere … 2024 is 50 years since creation of MANON in 1974

That makes me feel really old as I remember attending the Dress Rehearsal and the First Night.

[Richard LH]

51 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

I can't remember which venue but BRB performed Fille without a pony (I think the local council had banned "performing animals" and the cart was pulled by some of the lads.

Peregrine performed in Fille  for BRB at Sadlers Wells a few years ago...is he now redundant and out to grass, or worse.....?

[Ondine]

Many years before Peregrine (and when BRB wasn't even a twinkle in anyone's eye) the old & greatly missed  'touring company' toured Fille with a filly who had recently had a foal. Pony and tiny foal were both on stage. No-one but NO-ONE gave a thought to the dancers. The entire audience went AAAAAH as one.

 

[Pulcinella]

I think many years ago Fille was performed on tour without a pony because there was an outbreak of foot and mouth disease. Like Jan I remember the cart being pulled by some of the lads.

[Silver Capricorn]

Fortunately, elsewhere in Europe, the pony is not a problem yet. Last season in Vienna and Prague, Fille was played in its original form with a pony. I'll see how it goes in the spring at the Paris Opera.

[Linnzi5]

17 hours ago, oncnp said:

Absolutely no expert here but in Men at the Barre one of the Principal women (Hayward perhaps?) said the women do get a say but the men don't

Funnily enough, I watched this documentary again recently, and I it was a conversation between the male dancers, mainly Valentino Zucchetti with a little input from William Bracewell. What was said is that female principals do get asked if they are comfortable dancing with certain male dancers because of the trust issues (feeling secure when being lifted etc.) Zucchetti said men 'just get assigned' their female partners but it wasn't a problem because all of the female dancers are fantastic. Whether that is true or not, I wouldn't know, but that is what was said.  

[Sim]

13 hours ago, Suffolkgal said:

Especially as we have dancers one longs to see in the roles. It’s not the Alain thing is it? I think that’s his name! Perceived as disrespectful or prejudiced against people with metro divergence? I really hope not 

Well this is what I have heard bouncing around....that they are scared that the character of Alain will cause 'offence'.  I don't know if that's true or not.  I haven't heard the animal theory at all, so it's a new one to me.  I don't see what the problem would be with the pony or the pigeons.  They are loved and very well treated.   One evening outside SW when BRB performed Fille a few years ago, Naughty Peregrine was just being led out by his owner.  I stopped and had a little cuddle with him (Peregrine, not the owner!!) and complimented the owner on the little pony's performance that night and always.  The owner replied that Peregrine was a diva and loved his performances.  So no cruelty there, methinks.  And aside from the many other joys in life that we are being denied these days, are we supposed to not have the weep-inducing moment at the end of 2P when the pigeons fly out to join the lead characters?  I so hope that isn't true.  

[bridiem]

4 minutes ago, Sim said:

And aside from the many other joys in life that we are being denied these days, are we supposed to not have the weep-inducing moment at the end of 2P when the pigeons fly out to join the lead characters?  I so hope that isn't true.  

 

So do I. The Two Pigeons without the two pigeons would not be The Two Pigeons.

[Linnzi5]

Apologies to all for me keep spelling  'principal' incorrectly! I do know how to spell it but keep typing 'principle' - goodness knows why! 🙄 Thanks, Sim, for correcting!  

[Linnzi5]

23 minutes ago, Sim said:

Well this is what I have heard bouncing around....that they are scared that the character of Alain will cause 'offence'.  I don't know if that's true or not.  I haven't heard the animal theory at all, so it's a new one to me.  I don't see what the problem would be with the pony or the pigeons.  They are loved and very well treated.   One evening outside SW when BRB performed Fille a few years ago, Naughty Peregrine was just being led out by his owner.  I stopped and had a little cuddle with him (Peregrine, not the owner!!) and complimented the owner on the little pony's performance that night and always.  The owner replied that Peregrine was a diva and loved his performances.  So no cruelty there, methinks.  And aside from the many other joys in life that we are being denied these days, are we supposed to not have the weep-inducing moment at the end of 2P when the pigeons fly out to join the lead characters?  I so hope that isn't true.  

I have not seen Fille at ROH and feel really disappointed not to have. Everything seems to cause offence these days! I really hope it is going to be included in a season soon - it's such a lovely ballet and I would love to see it. The pony is so cute, too. I don't see how the pigeons flying out is cruel? If they are trained and looked after, surely this isn't unacceptable? Not quite on the same scale, but I trained my late dog to play dead when I 'shot' her - it was a real party trick. She performed it for everyone and seemed to love the attention she got - I didn't consider that cruel (she always got lots of cuddles and love as a reward, well, she got that all the time, to be fair). If she hadn't have wanted to, she would not have performed and would have given me the 'seriously?' pooch look and walked away. 

[JNC]

Sad to hear the pony may be lost from Fille but I’d rather see a Fille without the pony than no Fille at all. 
 

I find the discourse around Alain curious. The ballet has no words so as far as I’m aware it’s not even certain that Alain has some mental impairment or disability - he could just be a kooky individual. Who has diagnosed this fictional character anyway? Was it a doctor and on what basis? Sorry to be a bit flippant and maybe there’s background understand I’m missing which confirms he is definitely meant to be impaired somewhere? 

 

Even if he does have some sort of condition, I hardly think he’s portrayed negatively - he’s not a cartoon “evil” character like Rothbart or Carabosse. So then I wonder if he’s not being made out to be evil/bad (and then the issue would be portraying all disabled people as evil) the problem is the simple fact of his character itself being portrayed is the problem - which is problematic as it suggests we shouldn’t have disabled (if he’s even disabled!) characters represented?

 

I remain very confused by it all.

 

I suppose the other thing is I assume it’s speculation that Alain and or the pony are why Fille hasn’t been revived so it could be neither of these things and simply ROH thinking the public won’t enjoy it/it won’t sell etc…? 

[capybara]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

Well this is what I have heard bouncing around....that they are scared that the character of Alain will cause 'offence'.  I don't know if that's true or not.  I haven't heard the animal theory at all, so it's a new one to me.  I don't see what the problem would be with the pony or the pigeons.  They are loved and very well treated.   One evening outside SW when BRB performed Fille a few years ago, Naughty Peregrine was just being led out by his owner.  I stopped and had a little cuddle with him (Peregrine, not the owner!!) and complimented the owner on the little pony's performance that night and always.  The owner replied that Peregrine was a diva and loved his performances.  So no cruelty there, methinks.  And aside from the many other joys in life that we are being denied these days, are we supposed to not have the weep-inducing moment at the end of 2P when the pigeons fly out to join the lead characters?  I so hope that isn't true.  

 

I have heard the Alain explanation several times and I can understand it to a certain extent. But, clearly, there are not the same sensitivities or interpretations in other countries - and that compounds the puzzlement here.

The pony reason is news to me but, if true, it should not be a 'show stopper'.

 

[Jan McNulty]

9 minutes ago, JNC said:

Sad to hear the pony may be lost from Fille but I’d rather see a Fille without the pony than no Fille at all. 
 

I find the discourse around Alain curious. The ballet has no words so as far as I’m aware it’s not even certain that Alain has some mental impairment or disability - he could just be a kooky individual. Who has diagnosed this fictional character anyway? Was it a doctor and on what basis? Sorry to be a bit flippant and maybe there’s background understand I’m missing which confirms he is definitely meant to be impaired somewhere? 

 

Even if he does have some sort of condition, I hardly think he’s portrayed negatively - he’s not a cartoon “evil” character like Rothbart or Carabosse. So then I wonder if he’s not being made out to be evil/bad (and then the issue would be portraying all disabled people as evil) the problem is the simple fact of his character itself being portrayed is the problem - which is problematic as it suggests we shouldn’t have disabled (if he’s even disabled!) characters represented?

 

I remain very confused by it all.

 

I suppose the other thing is I assume it’s speculation that Alain and or the pony are why Fille hasn’t been revived so it could be neither of these things and simply ROH thinking the public won’t enjoy it/it won’t sell etc…? 

 

My personal view of Alain is that he is the son of a local big wig who is a bit of a snob.  Alain has not had the opportunity to interact with other youngsters when he was growing up and he's painfully shy.  He still needs a "comfort blanket" and that happens to be his umbrella.b. If Alain is danced sympathetically I really do not see what the issue is.  I have, over the years, seen him occasionally caricatured and that is a bit uncomfortable.

[Sim]

IF it's true that they are not scheduling Fille because of the Alain character, and IF they are not scheduling Bayadere because they are afraid of offending a handful of people, then how is it that they have no problem with showing the MacMillan ballets that graphically portray violence and sexual abuse towards women?  That is not deemed to be offensive, but a couple of fairy tales are?  Let's be consistent here.  Having said this, until someone 'in the know' lets us know officially whether all these rumours about animals and potential offense are true or not, we can only speculate.  Again, as with Fille, other countries are performing Bayadere without a second thought, and with no problem.  What are we so scared of here (if indeed that's the case)?  

[OnePigeon]

36 minutes ago, Sim said:

then how is it that they have no problem with showing the MacMillan ballets that graphically portray violence and sexual abuse towards women? 

Don’t give them ideas!
 

There has never been a problem showing violence against women though - the TV schedules have been full of it for a good few years now.  It doesn’t make sense, does it?  
 

I really don’t understand the Alain problem, if indeed there is one.  The stagers can easily ensure the portrayal and characterisation is done so as not to cause offence or speculation.  Maybe it’s just not to someone who makes important decisions’s taste...

[Suffolkgal]

A lot of the contemporary rep is mighty disturbing. 

[capybara]

I can't believe that the Winter Casting is still not on the ROH website. What are they waiting for?

[Linnzi5]

54 minutes ago, capybara said:

I can't believe that the Winter Casting is still not on the ROH website. What are they waiting for?

Mine was emailed a while ago - not sure why this hasn't been updated? I also noticed that the dancers' bios are not available - again! 

[Richard LH]

7 hours ago, Sim said:

One evening outside SW when BRB performed Fille a few years ago, Naughty Peregrine was just being led out by his owner.  I stopped and had a little cuddle with him (Peregrine, not the owner!!) and complimented the owner on the little pony's performance that night and always.  The owner replied that Peregrine was a diva and loved his performances.  So no cruelty there, methinks. 

That sounds like the same occasion that I met Peregrine! I wish now I had asked for his autograph...

[Tango Dancer]

6 hours ago, JNC said:

I find the discourse around Alain curious. The ballet has no words so as far as I’m aware it’s not even certain that Alain has some mental impairment or disability - he could just be a kooky individual. Who has diagnosed this fictional character anyway? Was it a doctor and on what basis? Sorry to be a bit flippant and maybe there’s background understand I’m missing which confirms he is definitely meant to be impaired somewhere? 

 

Even if he does have some sort of condition, I hardly think he’s portrayed negatively - he’s not a cartoon “evil” character like Rothbart or Carabosse. So then I wonder if he’s not being made out to be evil/bad (and then the issue would be portraying all disabled people as evil) the problem is the simple fact of his character itself being portrayed is the problem - which is problematic as it suggests we shouldn’t have disabled (if he’s even disabled!) characters represented?

 

I remain very confused by it all.

 

 

I've never considered Alain to have any learning difficulty or disability.  He strikes me as someone who's not really interested in people but likes his own amusements and his umbrella and doesn't really want Lise but is going along with his parents wishes. 

 

 

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, Linnzi5 said:

I also noticed that the dancers' bios are not available - again! 

 

Fingers crossed it's just an update to reflect the end of seasons promotions & they'll be back up soon...

[art_enthusiast]

Slightly random question but given that this thread is about casting, does anyone know how Teo Dubreuil is? I feel like I haven't seen too much of him on stage this past season. I hope he's doing well.