Kerfuffle Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 I think finding teachers able to teach to that standard is generally difficult, plus in this country we have an exam taking culture based on syllabuses that demand a lot of time - RAD, ISTD etc. Vocational lower schools generally don’t train the individual student to do variations, so we have a huge gap in comparison to over nations. There are a few independents at YAGP from U.K. or those studying intensely with certain private teachers one to one but we are quite rare on the competition circuit! I think it’s hard to be taken seriously abroad and I wonder what further harm Brexit has done. It’s a bit like being a British act in Eurovision until last year! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Peanut68 said: I suspect that the fact that it is ever younger virtuostic dancers who tend to be selected for these type of competitions can only ever come from a training background of intense private coaching which is not the norm in the UK. Even going back over the years many current & former RB dancers came these routes & joined at much younger ages than a UK dancer would ever have been allowed.....I seem to recall (happy to be corrected...) that dancers like Ferri & Durante joined the company aged only 15 - at a time even when I think UK kids had to remain in full time education until aged 16....& isn't it now 18? I'm sure an element of home schooling can be considered suitable allowing high level ballet coaching....but there's the rub....not many UK families can or choose to afford the time & financial outlay for this. Just my thoughts.... Durante was at White Lodge so I don't think she could have joined at 15. Don't know about Ferri, did she go to WL as well, or did she join the Upper School? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) I don’t think anyone would be allowed to join the company BEFORE the school leaving age at the time. Years ago dancers did join companies at 14 and 15 when the school leaving age was much lower. I’m pretty sure that in UK today Company employment would not be able to start until 18. Having said that probably back in Ferris time school leaving age was was 16 ( though was 17 for a few years too) so she probably didn’t join the Company officially until she was at least 16. Edited February 3, 2023 by LinMM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Katherine Healy joined ENB as a ?principal aged 15 in 1984. I think Trinidad Sevillano was also a ‘baby ballerina’. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 I believe there is a sort of "get out" in that the dancer has to have completed the compulsory education of their own country before joining a UK company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 These are the finalists for 2023. Will see who stands out after the performances but nobody individually has really grabbed me this year so far even though overall the standard is very high. But I’ve only got to day 4 so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Haven’t had a chance to watch any footage yet but looking at this photo I feel the PDL has gone from being a competition for emerging professional dancers to help launch their careers with ballet companies to a stage to showcase precocious talent for a sort of ‘land grab’ by schools to gain the best for upper schools…. But what’s the point in having already highly trained amazing dancers join your school? Surely they show up the weaknesses in that schools training that they feel a need to recruit from beyond their own training system? And also what is the point in young dancers being at Principal standard far before they realistically can join a company & far before they are physically & emotionally ready to be cast in such roles to give an artistically & morally correct portrayal? Just my own humble & very much from the distant sidelines opinion. I have stated before it makes ballet feel more like an elite sport & tbh at this rate why not become one? I have said elsewhere it could just as realistically be an Olympic sport judged much like ice dancing & figure skating or trampolining or gymnastics or diving. Scores on level of difficulty…. Execution… landing…. Oh and interpretation (though seem to think that’s becoming ever lower on the list sadly) I feel it’s more like it’s training individual recital performers (& maybe that too is the way ballet is going? And maybe there’s a place/market for such which could provide employment….tours of just virtuoso solo performers….) But I still prefer my ballet watching to be a range of performers with a mixture of youth & experience & the joy a company of dancers working as a body together can collectively share. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophoife Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peanut68 said: Haven’t had a chance to watch any footage yet but looking at this photo I feel the PDL has gone from being a competition for emerging professional dancers to help launch their careers with ballet companies to a stage to showcase precocious talent for a sort of ‘land grab’ by schools to gain the best for upper schools Yes, many of those young dancers look very young - but what you have to remember is that there are two divisions -A and B - and that the A groups are children of 15 and 16. They are the ones aiming for schools. The B groups are 17 and 18. I often find that dancers look younger than they are, and particularly the boys, as they haven't really begun to reach their adult size and musculature. Nine of the 22 finalists are 18, three are 17 - so 12 in the B groups. Of the A groups 10, four are 15y3m or younger (three girls and one boy), three are 16, and the other four are between 15y7m and 15y11m. Best wishes to all the finalists, and, having now watched all the selections, congratulations to all 82 candidates. Edited February 4, 2023 by Sophoife Added ages of finalists. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Here are the finalists: 101 Alecsia Maria LAZARESCU Romania 102An SAITO Japan 103 Soohoo PARK South Korea 114 Emily SPROUT Australia 201 Keisuke MIYAZAKI Japan 204 William GYVES United States 206 Wendel VIEIRA TELES Brazil 207 Millán DE BENITO Spain 210 Fabrizzio ULLOA CORNEJO Mexico 212 Alexander MOCKRISH Sweden 309 Seehyun KIM South Korea 310Julie JOYNER United States 314 Ana Luisa NEGRÃO Brazil 317 Haruka TANABE Japan 318 Soo Min KIM South Korea 320 Sangwon PARK South Korea 406 Davide DE PONTE Italy 413 Giuseppe VENTURA Italy 414 Frederick STUCKWISCH United States 416 Kanata IJIMA Japan 421 Amaury ZANETE PÉREZ Mexico 423 Chun Hung YAN P.R. China (Hong Kong) Nice to see some different variations this year. Millán DE BENITO and Fabrizzio ULLOA CORNEJO were fabulous in the "Flames of Paris" solo, as was Australian Henry BURGESS who didn't make the final. Mexican Fabrizzio Ulloa Cornejo a real favourite with the audience! A few dancers unfortunalety slipped in their classical variations. I need to go back and watch the videos but I remember either last year or the year before several dancers slipped in the same spot and I always wonder if it's caused by polish coming off the shoes of the jury or the announcer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophie_B Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I’m excited to watch the finals this afternoon. Many of the young dancers that stood out to me in the live stream earlier this week have made it to the finals (well, what I saw of the live streams anyway, there is so much to watch!). The overall standard really is very high. I started writing a list of my favourites but ended up with about 10 names! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 11 hours ago, Peanut68 said: Haven’t had a chance to watch any footage yet but looking at this photo I feel the PDL has gone from being a competition for emerging professional dancers to help launch their careers with ballet companies to a stage to showcase precocious talent for a sort of ‘land grab’ by schools to gain the best for upper schools…. But what’s the point in having already highly trained amazing dancers join your school? Surely they show up the weaknesses in that schools training that they feel a need to recruit from beyond their own training system? And also what is the point in young dancers being at Principal standard far before they realistically can join a company & far before they are physically & emotionally ready to be cast in such roles to give an artistically & morally correct portrayal? Just my own humble & very much from the distant sidelines opinion. I have stated before it makes ballet feel more like an elite sport & tbh at this rate why not become one? I have said elsewhere it could just as realistically be an Olympic sport judged much like ice dancing & figure skating or trampolining or gymnastics or diving. Scores on level of difficulty…. Execution… landing…. Oh and interpretation (though seem to think that’s becoming ever lower on the list sadly) I feel it’s more like it’s training individual recital performers (& maybe that too is the way ballet is going? And maybe there’s a place/market for such which could provide employment….tours of just virtuoso solo performers….) But I still prefer my ballet watching to be a range of performers with a mixture of youth & experience & the joy a company of dancers working as a body together can collectively share. I agree with you, it is a shame if it gets reduced to just a sport that is quantifiable with a score. I guess that the opportunity to join schools in the graduating year at places such as RBS might be a reason for continuing with being in these competitions up to 18 and I suppose this is also why the ADs are still watching this age group.It’s like private schools taking on kids on grade 8 violin etc and then passing the training off as their own with impressive school orchestras and concerts when the hard work was mostly down to a previous teacher. There is something satisfying in working on solos individually for students even if they aren’t mastered in the way a principal at a company might perform it. It’s a chance to explore some of the best choreography to the best music at a young age which is a great opportunity, even if they never actually get that role professionally. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophie_B Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 On 31/01/2023 at 10:20, Balletdoodah said: preparation must meet opportunity This! To me, the PDL looks like it provides an opportunity for dancers to be seen by top companies in Europe and the US, if that's where their career aspirations are and they come from a country / training system where those opportunities are not necessarily available. The quality of dancers from Brazil, Japan and S Korea that make it to the PDL is phenomenal. So yes, these are precocious young talents but it's not a level playing field in terms of opportunities to be noticed, is it? So they have to be amazing to make it. It's not like a "training background of intense private coaching" as Peanut68 describes it is the norm in, say, Brazil or Mexico either and is even less accessible for the majority of the population there than it would be in the UK... these are all very exceptional young people who have been lucky to have some exceptional training and opportunities already. But even if all that makes the PDL feel a bit "extreme" and Olympics-like, isn't it wonderful that there are talents like this and the schools / companies get to see them? I am just a ballet watcher, not a dancer... does anyone know if the Royal Ballet for instance ever has any kind of "open" auditions for the lower levels? Because my impression is that the Aud Jebsen dancers only come from the Royal Ballet School, so if you're not there already and want to join the RB, being "the PDL dancer" seems to be the only other option. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 It’s definitely another option and ballet is international after all! The majority of these dancers are seasoned YAGP competitors so are used to this format. I think some of the training is very intense and I would suppose that the same is going on in Brazil/Mexico as well as Korea and Japan - the RBS runs intensives in these countries so there must be a lot of interest. I guess what is hard if you’re a parent here is that this is not easily accessible in this country but I have to agree that it’s great to be able to see what’s out there. I don’t know about recruiting for RB beyond Aub Jenson, I think you have to be invited to audition so this probably is a good way of being spotted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine0308 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I cross my fingers for the young talents, 7 from my personal "like" list are finalists.💪 Yusei Kobayashi from our State Ballet School Berlin didn't make it to the finals, but "at least" he was selected to participate and did a powerful "Basilio". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura_ballet Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Anyone have any favourite finalists? I have really enjoyed watching 318 Soomin Kim, a past contestant from 2020. I was sad that 202 Henry Burgess didn’t make it through to finals. Looking forward to seeing 207 Millan De Benito. Well done to all the finalists. I really looking forward to watching the live stream shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 12 hours ago, Sophoife said: congratulations to all 82 candidates. So is this the number who actually travel to Lausanne & take part in a few days competition selection process before finalists selected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophie_B Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, Thelittleswans said: I have really enjoyed watching 318 Soomin Kim From what I saw of her in classes and selection, I wouldn't be surprised if she won the whole thing! But as I said above, I have about 8 other favourites too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine0308 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 114, 210, 309, 317, 318, 320, 421 are from "my list". I also liked 307 Hamin Park (South Korea) and 424 Aidan Tully (New Zealand), dancing a romantic Albrecht. Nicolas LeRiche (so kind and supporting) and Monique Loudieres (singing!!😃) were my favorite coaches to watch. Edited February 4, 2023 by Sabine0308 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicent Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 307 was my overall favourite throughout the week although I didn't get to see her final variations. I also really liked 317 so glad she has got through to finals. I also really liked 302 - very elegant and long-limbed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I liked 317 too! And 310 but a couple of the younger ones who were nice didn’t make the finals. And I think one of the boys was 406 but another I liked didn’t make the finals either. However I haven’t seen their pre final performances yet and sometimes some of the candidates can surprise you then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophoife Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Peanut68 said: So is this the number who actually travel to Lausanne & take part in a few days competition selection process before finalists selected? This year, 82 candidates were selected to learn and to compete in Lausanne, yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaM Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 429 applicants 83 participated in the Lausanne week 22 finalists 2 gold medal winners 11 scholarships plus 6 other prizes Edited February 4, 2023 by FionaE 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 On 20/12/2022 at 17:53, DD Driver said: I know students at Australian Ballet School or Queensland Ballet Academy can't do comps unless they are the chosen 1 allowed to go to PdL. Even then they commit to not accepting offers from other schools/companies. I have to wonder how Australia Ballet School are feeling about the fact that their chosen one didn't make it into the finals this year. He was obviously a lovely dancer who was a credit to himself and his training, and their candidate did very well last year, but I have to wonder whether they will send someone in 2024. For everyone wondering if RBS and like schools not sending a student is because they are worried that they won't hit the mark, take note... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophoife Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 @Viv, last year's successful ABS PdL candidate was also the only ABS graduate to gain a contract with the company. It is rumoured that this year's graduands (I think that's the word for people who are graduating, not already graduated) are a more homogeneous group in terms of overall standard and that a reasonably high percentage will be considered for contracts - finances and natural attrition willing, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Viv said: For everyone wondering if RBS and like schools not sending a student is because they are worried that they won't hit the mark, take note... Or maybe the students already have a job at the Royal Ballet and don't need the stress to do a competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverdancedjustamum Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, Angela said: Or maybe the students already have a job at the Royal Ballet and don't need the stress to do a competition. I am not sure of the numbers in the last few years but I wouldn’t think it would suggest this. There are actually whole discussions on this forum I believe on how it’s otherwise. I did spot a few finalists and scholarship recipients who look very much like the ‘type’ RBS would offer places to (based on previous years) but often these are the same ones who other schools offer places to as well so it would be interesting to see where these young dancers choose to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Am about half way through the preselections performances and really enjoyed Soo Min Kim and Sangwon Park performances both from South Korea ( 318 and 320 respectively) I loved the sheer joy they got across in their dancing. Also the Japanese dancer 317 who caught my eye a lot in class also performed really well Haruka Tanabe I thought Julie Joyner was a great candidate as well though haven’t seen her modern piece yet. Of course lots of others dancing beautifully too so am bound to have missed some future stars!! Where the boys are concerned I liked 417 who didn’t make finals …I think he was Australian but would have to look up. Otherwise I liked 406 the Italian Davide de Ponte and 414 from the US and one of the Mexicans number 421 Perez I think but still haven’t seen all their modern pieces yet either. One improvement would be in this pre selections because there are so many dancers is if they could keep the name of the candidate dancing at the top of the screen as it’s hard work going backwards and forwards to see all the entrances where their name is given!! Still haven’t seen the actual finals yet! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine0308 Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Back to topic PdL 2023, I'm very happy with Sangwon Park(320) winning 3rd place, a wonderful performer onstage, and Millan De Benito (207, 15 years old!!) 1st price alongside Fabrizzio Cornejo (210, 16 years old) . However, I think they missed an opportunity to give Gold Medal to best boy and best girl. I still think they should do separate this anyway, but that's just me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine0308 Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 @LinMM a big YES to the name on screen!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akh Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 On 03/02/2023 at 21:39, Legseleven said: Katherine Healy joined ENB as a ?principal aged 15 in 1984. I think Trinidad Sevillano was also a ‘baby ballerina’. Yes both very young and referred to as "baby ballerinas" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Have just finished watching the Gala -much longer than advertised! Some wonderful pieces, but some of the more modern works had such dark lighting that I could hardly make out what they were doing. Is it just my screen or did others find that? I'd be interested in hearing what it was like in the actual auditorium! I loved the Diane and Acteon duo - didn't he win gold two or three years ago? Such an exciting dancer to watch and a real dancer with his whole being! Macrae was fabulous too with his "tap" piece - brilliant -those turns round the stage at the end!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 On 19/01/2023 at 14:32, Kerfuffle said: Some countries have such a strong tradition of ballet that they don’t change hugely who they choose or how they teach, this is very true of Russia and France. You’re right that both those nations are very exacting in their intake - they know the bodies that will respond to the training and look right according to their aesthetic. French and Russian ballerinas look alike but their styles of dancing are quite different I think - they have a different emphasis in their classes. I thought Nureyev would have made POB more like Vaganova but my daughter recently did YAGP Paris classes there and it was still very French fast footwork, I think this might be a Western European approach? Don't forget that Nureyev danced for many years with RBS. Whilst he influenced many changes there to the training (even we girls had to do the long loping steps à la Nureyev into grand jeté en tournant instead of a coupé chassé ) his technique was equally influenced by the British style. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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