Prix de Lausanne 2023

[Kerfuffle]

On 16/12/2022 at 15:50, taxi4ballet said:

That's not quite what I meant. 

 

What I was trying to say was that on more than one occasion, the RBS AD has been absent from the audtions for his own vocational school because he was attending the Prix instead, and that it is rather odd that the school doesn't rearrange the audition dates so he can actually be there instead of them clashing every year. 

It is odd considering that it’s a partner school and I agree with you that those dates shouldn’t clash. What I meant (not aimed at you in particular) was that I think it’s often said that the ADs are more interested in competition winners  as though that is some kind of short cut to a school place which I don’t think it is because it takes a huge amount of time and preparation involving more than just a variation or two. 

[taxi4ballet]

Yes, it would take a lot of preparation to be involved in these competitions, but not everyone is in a position to be given that opportunity. Surely dancers travelling from all over the world to the auditions actually at the school really deserve equal consideration, and to have the AD present at their audition. 

[Kerfuffle]

Yes I think they both do, and as I said I think that ADs should be available. 

[Birdy]

I found it quite surprising that Christopher Powney doesn’t usually attend auditions, especially when kids are flying in from other countries to attend.

[Kanangra]

3 hours ago, Birdy said:

I found it quite surprising that Christopher Powney doesn’t usually attend auditions, especially when kids are flying in from other countries to attend.

Do they, though? apart from competitions such as the PdL and YAGP most kids from Australia, for example, audition via remote Zoom links. I know some kids have been awarded places in the summer school this way too, and presume they get seen while attending that. 

[Pas de Quatre]

It all depends on the structure of a big organisation - it may be that the AD is concentrating on a certain group of candidates, i.e. at the Prix, and he has delegated decisions to other members of the teach.  While at the Prix he would also be networking with other ADs of Companies and Schools.

 

When there is an in house audition at RBS, with a panel sitting in the front, the members of the panel are not marking every candidate, just those they have been allocated, who are standing in front of them when in lines.  This is not my speculation, this was explained by RBS staff at Audition practices/Associate events.

[Tiaramum]

5 hours ago, Kanangra said:

Do they, though? apart from competitions such as the PdL and YAGP most kids from Australia, for example, audition via remote Zoom links. I know some kids have been awarded places in the summer school this way too, and presume they get seen while attending that. 

The AD at RBS didn't watch any summer school classes at WL this year. There is a huge focus on things like the PDL and YAGP - RBS pupils are not allowed to enter competitions. Given the choice between a UK Trained dancer and an international dancer the international dancer will win in the eyes of the AD every time. If you look at the stats prior to his arrival there was approx 20% of international dancers training under the RBS umbrella. this is now up at 40-42% and figures for the past two years have not been given out as yet. 

[taxi4ballet]

9 hours ago, Kanangra said:

Do they, though? apart from competitions such as the PdL and YAGP most kids from Australia, for example, audition via remote Zoom links. I know some kids have been awarded places in the summer school this way too, and presume they get seen while attending that. 

I don't know about post-covid times, but certainly when it was my dd's year to audition for upper school, there were definitely a number of people from overseas in her audition group, including someone from the USA - I got chatting to her mum while we waited for them to come out.

 

In any case, if it is mostly students living in the UK who are auditioning in person, do they not deserve equal treatment and get the chance to be seen? Most British dancers do not get the opportunity to compete at YAGP or PdL, as even the full-time vocational schools rarely if ever enter them. And how are non-vocational students ever going to be able to find people to coach them to that level? The training set-up in many overseas countries is different from here, and it really seems to me that British-based students are getting the thin end of the wedge.

 

I have no axe to grind about the present situation by the way, my dd is long out of the vocational training game.

 

 

[Birdy]

My daughter did the upper school summer program at RBS and flew from the west coast of the US for an in-person audition. No sign of Christopher Powney. (Ironically he is often in our home state doing a summer program for students here while the upper school program is being held in London). She also auditioned for another school in Europe where the head of the school was present and the audition was much more involved and personal. The difference was night and day. Her current school requires submission of a video to be invited to audition, which seems like a better system. It makes for smaller audition classes and doesn’t waste the time and money of students who are unlikely to have a chance. RBS will happily allow kids to fly in to audition at 17 even if there is no place available for a second year student at Covent Garden. I’m sure he respects the judgement of the adjudicators at the auditions, but at the highest levels where there are so many amazing dancers, everything is so subjective. I’d rather send my daughter somewhere where I know she has what the head of the school is looking for.

[DD Driver]

My understanding is that RBS teachers see a large number of candidates e.g. on the intl audition tours.  They take notes & possibly take video to share their thoughts/recommendations with the AD.   

 

Last year Australians did the Finals audition via Zoom but this year a video must be sent in and then if selected then they have to go to London audition.

Of course, at YAGP & PdL some dancers may get offers - as they are being seen in person by the AD over a period of days.

 

- I do find it confusing that UK students - not at a vocational school - are not getting advanced coaching & attending YAGP/PdL as much as o/s students do!  Great teachers are available.  I get that homeschooling & Distance Ed are not as big as o/s and the school exam timing may be unfavourable...but you could still get quality hours in.  Can someone explain?

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by DD Driver

[Kanangra]

11 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

In any case, if it is mostly students living in the UK who are auditioning in person, do they not deserve equal treatment and get the chance to be seen? Most British dancers do not get the opportunity to compete at YAGP or PdL, as even the full-time vocational schools rarely if ever enter them. And how are non-vocational students ever going to be able to find people to coach them to that level? The training set-up in many overseas countries is different from here, and it really seems to me that British-based students are getting the thin end of the wedge.

 

I have no axe to grind about the present situation by the way, my dd is long out of the vocational training game.

 

 

I agree that all students auditioning deserve to be seen.

 

I don't understand why British training means that dancers don't get these opportunities - why are the vocational schools not submitting students? (Most non-British dancers would consider British vocational schools to be among the most desirable destinations already so perhaps that is a reason?) In Australia it is only the vocational students who are entered in such competitions, other than some very young dancers in the junior categories who will probably end up vocational anyway.

 

[DD Driver]

4 hours ago, Kanangra said:

In Australia it is only the vocational students who are entered in such competitions, other than some very young dancers in the junior categories who will probably end up vocational anyway.

 

Kanangra, by 'vocational' are you referring to full time students at private ballet studios?

I know students at Australian Ballet School or Queensland Ballet Academy can't do comps unless they are the chosen 1 allowed to go to PdL.  Even then they commit to not accepting offers from other schools/companies.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

10 hours ago, DD Driver said:

 

 

- I do find it confusing that UK students - not at a vocational school - are not getting advanced coaching & attending YAGP/PdL as much as o/s students do!  Great teachers are available.  I get that homeschooling & Distance Ed are not as big as o/s and the school exam timing may be unfavourable...but you could still get quality hours in.  Can someone explain?

 

To get to that level, where someone who isn’t in full time vocational school would be competitive enough to gain a place in the top schools and able to participate in YAGP/PdL, the financial and time commitment would be staggering. As far as I am aware of those I’ve seen gain places in top schools (beyond year 7) or were able to participate in international competitions, you would need serious finances and time. Private coaching in London, with teachers who have a track record for these things, would often be upwards of £65 an hour (more along the lines of £85-£125) with studio fee on top (cheapest for Pineapple/Danceworks would be £35+). There are dance schools that advertise  ‘vocational training’ hours so one can stay at home but to even get hours similar to those in full time would still cost a fair bit every term (minimum 10 hours/week) - that’s on top of privates, studio fees, physio sessions, associates, the list is endless. These top coaches would often only have weekday availability, often in central London, and have long waitlists. Those I know who are serious about getting a place (beyond year 7), had to consider home schooling just to get the hours in. I know a lot would say it is possible to get  year 10 or upper school place even if your DC is not full time but I personally believe this would very much depend on WHICH school you want and what competition you’d like to participate in. The last two British PdL candidates I am aware of were privately coached. Just to put it into a modest perspective, I’d say 10+ hours in these dance schools that specialise in vocational training is likely to cost almost £1k a term, even if someone does once a week private, that will be around £400 a month if in London with studio fees (not counting transport  costs), associates will be around £300 a term (for one associates, and this is a prudent approximate - most do more than one associates scheme), physio at minimum £50 a session (I heard it’s more £100 for specialised dance physio). This is not sustainable for most, especially given the current economic climate. That’s why I think ballet at its highest level here in the U.K. is becoming more elite and is only accessible to those who can afford it. In my world, not everyone can easily afford a 2-week intensive that would be around £2k for one child alone - or go overseas with a child for intensives abroad. In addition, not a lot of parents have the time to just accompany their DC around to ballet classes, unless they don’t work or own their businesses which gives time flexibility. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Neverdancedjustamum

[LinMM]

There are definitely some Australian students who have taken part in the Prix de L and gained entry to the RBS (for one example) to finish their training (and are now in the Company!!) So am not sure any word given that they cannot accept offers from other schools or companies whilst at the Prix are particularly binding 🤔Perhaps this ONLY refers to the Australian Ballet School and Queensland school?  
However unless students already have a firm offer from either of these two Companies I’m not sure how you could stop an 18 year old student who even though  had trained there from going to the Prix as a way of looking for possible work. 
Students at RBS in U.K. who have completed their FULL training with the school don’t always get into the Company and have to look for work elsewhere. 
I don’t know if this also happens at Australian and Queensland Ballet schools….or do ALL students always get into Company! 
Personally I don’t see why any of the older students especially those who are 18 at ANY school in any Country  should not have a chance at the Prix if meet required standards and want to and can afford to go etc. 

 

[Sophoife]

I can assure you, @LinMM, that graduates of the Australian Ballet School and of Queensland Ballet Academy do not all get in to the respective company.

 

Australian Ballet School: four of 17 2021 graduates gained company contracts. Four of 21 in 2020, and seven of 21 in 2019.

 

The only 2022 graduate to gain a company contract so far is Amy Ronnfeldt, who was in fact the school's PdL candidate (she was selected for Lausanne, then awarded 7th prize, the Bourse Jeune Étoile, which according to the PdL website she forfeited - presumably because she was given a contract by TAB).

 

All the other Australians in the live PdL competition this year save one were at private ballet studios in Australia, the exception was at a school in Mannheim, Germany.

 

ABS graduates (fairly naturally) routinely apply to Queensland Ballet and a number do gain contracts, most famously Mia Heathcote (yes, daughter of Steven) who was offered a contract straight out of level 7 (penultimate year) and joined QB in 2014, promoted to principal artist in 2022.

 

One of the 11 QB "young artists" trained at a private studio in Melbourne. One was a 2020 ABS graduate who then completed the QBA pre-professional year in 2021. One is a Canadian who was privately trained. Two more are ABS graduates.

 

West Australian Ballet's senior dancers are either Cuban or ABS graduates, with the rest of the company a mix from ABS, NZ School of Dance, European schools (Académie Princesse Grace, Rosella Hightower, John Cranko Schule, ENB school and Elmhurst), private Australian studios, and the West Australian Academy of Performing Arts (Hugh Jackman's alma mater).

Edited December 20, 2022 by Sophoife
Clarification

[LinMM]

Thanks for the info Sophoife! 
My friends daughter trained at the Tania Pearson Academy in Sydney but has not taken up dancing Professionally in the end.  But I do see at least one of her vocational students at the Prix most years. 
Im pretty sure that’s where Harrison Lee trained or another school in Sydney and he won a scholarship to RBS from the Prix and is now with the Royal Ballet ….and a really nice classical style he has as well! 
My friends daughter danced with him at one of the Dance Eisteddfods in Sydney when younger! 
I can see if a younger student was on a scholarship say to a Big school like Australian Ballet School they might not want a student seeking to change schools via the Prix!! But once are near the very end of their training so ready for Company auditions etc I don’t think it should matter after all it’s probably harder to find work as a dancer in Australia generally speaking so think it’s a bit unfair to have to give an undertaking not to accept work elsewhere if there’s no guarantee will get into the Company at the end of their training anyway! 
It’s interesting that they select say just one student to attend the Prix but who cannot benefit…… other than just being with lots of other young dancers which I’m sure is a lovely experience…..

Is this to just show off the training received at Australian Ballet school with a particularly excellent student? 
Looking at your above post and the mix of dancers etc it shows just how hard it really is to get into any reasonably esteemed Ballet Company! 
Or indeed ANY Ballet Company. 

 

[DD Driver]

LinMM my understanding is that students at the Australian Ballet School & Queensland Ballet Academy can not participate in competitions.  A student can be selected by ABS or QBA to represent the school.   They make a commitment not to accept offers & probably have an 'understanding' that they will gain an offer from their company.  They can not have had an official offer, under PdL rules. The school paid for that person to attend so it would be difficult to accept any PdL school or company contracts in that situation.

 

Harrison Lee went to McDonald College in Sydney.

[Sophoife]

3 hours ago, LinMM said:

It’s interesting that they select say just one student to attend the Prix but who cannot benefit…… other than just being with lots of other young dancers which I’m sure is a lovely experience…..

Is this to just show off the training received at Australian Ballet school with a particularly excellent student? 

 

I would imagine your last question to be self-answering 😉

 

However I do know that in the past ABS students supported to PdL and YAGP have of course been seen by people from other companies and/or schools and that they have ultimately chosen a different path than TAB.

 

Hannah O'Neill is possibly the highest-profile example of this. She took part in the Paris Opéra external competition and gained a couple of supernumerary contracts before winning it and entering the company full time. After then succeeding at the internal promotion competitions she is now a première danseuse with the company.

[DD Driver]

When a company takes very few, or just 1, student from their associated vocational school then it gets pretty scary for the students in the following year groups. Does the AD not like what the school is producing OR is it just about that year group OR is it about the number of contracts available...?

 

The students have - for the most part - given up their chance to gain performance/competition experience.   They have not shown themselves to other schools/companies or experienced these through master classes, summer schools etc  Certainly not in the way that private ballet school students do.

 

Still students and parents are getting more savvy.  In the graduate year they can start getting an audition video ready through their school or privately. They can be ready to press the button to enter comps e.g. YAGP or PdL if in age range.  At least in Australia where the year ends in Dec. 

 

A risk however is that the vocational school may inform you that you are not going to the company BUT you must stick around (and follow their rules around comps or auditions) to graduate with a Diploma.  Hopefully the balance of power starts to change at that point!

[Kanangra]

18 hours ago, DD Driver said:

Kanangra, by 'vocational' are you referring to full time students at private ballet studios?

I know students at Australian Ballet School or Queensland Ballet Academy can't do comps unless they are the chosen 1 allowed to go to PdL.  Even then they commit to not accepting offers from other schools/companies.

Yes - full time ballet students at places like National College of Dance, Tanya Pearson, Premier Elite etc etc. I know ABS and Qld Ballet rarely send students and I'm not sure why they do - both of the students I know of who were sent to PDL by ABS ended up back at the school and one is now in the Company.

editing after reading other posts above: Yes I agree they probably send their best dancer to show off the training at the ABS. 

This year some graduates (I think about 6?) have been selected to perform in TAB's "Storytime Ballet" which I am assuming is some kind of pre-entry for the company.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Kanangra

[Sophoife]

5 hours ago, Kanangra said:

This year some graduates (I think about 6?) have been selected to perform in TAB's "Storytime Ballet" which I am assuming is some kind of pre-entry for the company.

 

It's not really. Very few company members (off the top of my head I can think of only two) have done Storytime Ballet then entered the company. 

 

In 2022 TAB's new hires included Henry Berlin, straight out of School of American Ballet. "During his 12 years at the School of American Ballet, Henry danced numerous lead roles for New York City Ballet" [company bio]. Also a corps dancer from the Mariinsky, Maxim Zenin, and an American coryphée from the Mariinsky, Misha Barkidjija. Also Mr Caley.

 

Also four from ABS plus Eli Trevitt and Grace Carroll from RBS. Eli had never been to Australia before joining the company, and Grace is a daughter of two-time world surfing champion Tom Carroll; she trained with Lucinda Dunn at Tanya Pearson before RBS.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Sophoife
Rearranged to clarify that it was Grace who trained with Miss Dunn, not her father Tom!

[DD Driver]

Very enlightening, Sophoife!

It just shows that when a new AD starts at a company... all bets are off.

 

Another great reason for young dancers to leverage opportunities, like the PdL, to learn & to be seen.

[LinMM]

My friends daughter the one who trained at Tanya Pearson is a great diver and surfer too!! One of her brothers represented NSW in diving at Junior level! 
When they were on a U.K. visit a few years back now …mainly for daughter to attend various ballet summer schools here ….we were at the Olympic pool in Stratford ( really love that pool) and it was closing activities down early(can’t remember why) when the daughter begged instructor if she could have just one dive off the boards where Tom Daly (hero at time) had performed in 2012! 
I think he only let her as it was her last chance in the pool before returning to Oz and then I was totally gobsmacked when instead of just doing a “normal” dive off the board she did a huge somersault thingy! 
The instructor was gobsmacked as well I think and let her have another couple of goes as the best dive he’d seen all week!!! 
This is just an aside really but just a bit of celebration on some youngsters being so talented …and in more than one field!! 

[Sophoife]

TBH @DD Driver the changeover between Davids McAllister and Hallberg has been fairly unrevolutionary in that turnover has been relatively low.

 

Absence on maternity leave has accounted for a number of female dancers, with only a few actually leaving, and I include Alice Topp and as of today Karen Nanasca in that number.

 

On the male side, principals Kevin Jackson and Andrew Killian retired, senior artist Cris Martino likewise. The company as a whole is still relatively young though.

 

When one considers the last time the company did Don Quixote was 2013 and that more than half the current dancers will be debuting in it next year, and that Swan Lake was last performed in 2016 and again, many will debut that ballet in 2023...

[DD Driver]

Sophoife, I was specifically thinking about new AD's and take-up of students from the associated schools e.g. ABS/TAB  or Elmhurst/BRB.

 

Is it typical for TAB to take dancers from schools other than ABS?

I recall Cameron Holmes joined direct from Tanya Pearson Academy (not ABS) but I don't know if this occurred in the numbers seen this year.

[Sophoife]

It's unusual for company members not to have been at ABS, yes, @DD Driver. Wow, this has been interesting! 

 

Of 32 current corps members, 5: Berlin (SAB), Holmes (TPCC), Trevitt (RBS), Zenin (Vaganova) and Carroll (RBS).

 

Coryphées (13) again 5: Barkidjija (Vaganova), Timothy Coleman (private Melbourne studio and 10+ years in other companies), Amanda McGuigan (RBS then Ballet du Rhin, ABT and Dutch National), George-Murray Nightingale (ENB School), and Katherine Sonnekus (JKO School).

 

Soloists Jacqueline Clark (RBS then Ballet Ireland and six years at the Royal Ballet) and Ingrid Gow (NZSD and RNZB) are the only two (of 10) at that level not to have been to ABS.

 

Senior artist Rina Nemoto trained in Japan and privately in Paris before gaining an apprenticeship at the Royal Ballet through PdL. Chris Rodgers-Wilson went to RBS then had four years at BRB. Imogen Chapman went from ABS to RBS upper school then Scottish Ballet. Jarryd Madden trained at the same private studio as Coleman. That's 4 of 10.

 

At principal level only 2 of 12: Sharni Spencer NZSD, and Joe Caley RBS-BRB-ENB.

 

18 of 77, or just over 23% of the company, did not come from ABS. On that basis, ABS is clearly the school to attend if your dream company is TAB. 

[DD Driver]

7 hours ago, Sophoife said:

It's unusual for company members not to have been at ABS, yes, @DD Driver. Wow, this has been interesting!

 

You really have this topic covered, @Sophoife Thank you!

 

PdL, YAGP (& RBS) are meaningful routes into top companies.  

I guess that is why dancers are prepared to pay large sums of money to gain a place and travel so far.  

 

In Australia, I usually hear people talk about PdL with great respect.  That the master classes & networking are so valuable, regardless of whether the dancers gets into the Finals night.

 

[sunrise81]

Just our of curiosity....how much does it cost to enter PdL? 

[invisiblecircus]

5 minutes ago, sunrise81 said:

Just our of curiosity....how much does it cost to enter PdL? 

 

175 Swiss francs (a little over £150) to participate in the video selection round.
200 Swiss francs (around £180) if you're selected to compete in the Lausanne.

Obviously the biggest cost is travel and accomodation, the former varying widely depending on where you're travelling from. Then there is the cost of coaching for the competition.

[sunrise81]

I can imagine accommodation is quite pricey too! 

 

I've always wondered how much these competitions like PdL and YAGP cost!

[Viv]

21 hours ago, Sophoife said:

18 of 77, or just over 23% of the company, did not come from ABS. On that basis, ABS is clearly the school to attend if your dream company is TAB. 

 

This is venturing off topic, but I have to wonder how many Australian dancers might pass up an opportunity at ABS to preserve the kinds of opportunities offered through comps like PdL. I know a number of dancers who have had opportunities to move to Melbourne to train with the school, and have chosen to stay training in private studios. From those I've spoken to this seems to be because, if you're one of the 15 odd graduates per year who don't get into TAB - where do you go? Are you actually competitive for other companies against the Australian graduates who have continued to train privately? Though there would be clear financial benefits to training at ABS versus the ruinous costs of private training! 

 

I actually don't know what the graduate destinations are like for people finishing up with ABS who don't get into TAB. It's a shame that those who are not what TAB are looking for aren't supported to compete. For students who know they won't get into the company and are looking for that chance to be seen, something like PdL would be an amazing opportunity. Though hopefully the school assists with auditioning in other ways. 

[Sophoife]

The Interesting part of that @Vivis the number who do go elsewhere then come back to dance with TAB. I mean, Grace Carroll went from Tanya Pearson to ABS to RBS and straight home to TAB on graduation. Chris Rodgers-Wilson, RBS then BRB then came home.

 

Then you have someone like Audrey Freeman who went from Tanya Pearson to RBS US as a result of performing well in competitions at a very young age with massive [largely self-generated] fanfare on social media and has disappeared from ballet. I believe she sustained a serious injury.

 

Then again you have people like Steven McRae and Alex Campbell who went to RBS as a result of PdL and have stayed in England. Thirty years ago and more that was very common (see Leanne Benjamin for example), but even Lucinda Dunn accepted an offer from Maina Gielgud straight out of RBS and didn't take up the contract she'd been offered with the Royal.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

1 hour ago, Sophoife said:

The Interesting part of that @Vivis the number who do go elsewhere then come back to dance with TAB. I mean, Grace Carroll went from Tanya Pearson to ABS to RBS and straight home to TAB on graduation. Chris Rodgers-Wilson, RBS then BRB then came home.

 

Then you have someone like Audrey Freeman who went from Tanya Pearson to RBS US as a result of performing well in competitions at a very young age with massive [largely self-generated] fanfare on social media and has disappeared from ballet. I believe she sustained a serious injury.

 

Then again you have people like Steven McRae and Alex Campbell who went to RBS as a result of PdL and have stayed in England. Thirty years ago and more that was very common (see Leanne Benjamin for example), but even Lucinda Dunn accepted an offer from Maina Gielgud straight out of RBS and didn't take up the contract she'd been offered with the Royal.

If I’m not mistaken, Grace Carroll also went to Paris Opera Ballet School, for at least a year from what I can remember. This might have been off the back of YAGP, but I could be wrong. I’m fairly certain she went to POBS for a year and then on to RBS for only a year too. That’s why I remember reading somewhere on this forum that RBS don’t recruit for final year of upper school but I can certainly think of a good number who have done that before and so whilst they ‘graduated’ from RBS, I would question whether their training is actually ‘RBS’ as a whole since they were only there for a relatively short time. Quite a number get assessed out of second year. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Neverdancedjustamum