"Ballet is too elitist and rooted in white European ideas"

[Orlandau]

Woke dance school drops ballet from auditions as it is ‘white’ and ‘elitist’ (msn.com)

 

Words fail me.

When I read articles like this I think this world is beyond me, I don't understand people anymore, maybe I'm just too old to understand.

[Fiz]

It’s bonkers!

[Balletfanp]

This is totally misinterpreting “decolonising the curriculum.” Working in a university, this is a really big thing at the moment, but the aim is to make sure that, as far as possible, minority groups are represented and visible in lectures, on reading lists, in the library etc. - not to remove anything else that could potentially ‘offend.’ There’d be nothing left if we did!

 

And on another point, the statement that ballet is elitist because some people don’t have access to it - my parents were working class and definitely didn’t have much money to spend on luxuries such as ballet classes, but I attended classes nevertheless for many years. It will remain ‘elite’ if ridiculous ideas like this are promoted.

[CCL]

I can’t see any reference to this statement anywhere else on the internet, or indeed in NSCD’s mission statement on its own website. Perhaps the Telegraph has misinterpreted the story?

[Balletfanp]

Well, the Telegraph seem to have spoken to them and used direct quotes.

[Scheherezade]

Well, if they want to to ensure that it is ‘rooted in white European ideas’ and ‘elitist’, they are certainly going about it in the right way. 

[DD Driver]

If you see institutions or Media promoting racism & prejudice like this - against ANY race of people - make sure that you submit a formal complaint to the organisation & their governing body. Every Single Time.

[Bruce Wall]

5 hours ago, Orlandau said:

 

When I read articles like this I think this world is beyond me, I don't understand people anymore, maybe I'm just too old to understand.

 

You know, Orlandau, I feel like this, progressively, more and more.  Sometimes this world seems a foreign planet that once I thought I knew .... Whatever else, it continues to be a journey of discovery - whether one likes it or NOT!!

 

[Drdee]

I don’t want to be contrary for the sake of it but I think you may have misread some of the points in the article. They have dropped the ballet class from their audition process. This is similar to the London School of Contemporary Dance (not sure of the name). This is to be more inclusive and help those who have not studied ballet for extended periods to feel like they can audition there. Something we may see as accessible may not be like that for others. As someone whose daughters danced at a Midlands dance school where the minority are ‘white’ I discovered that there are many aspects of classical ballet that are elite. We are just not always aware of. We could start with the ballet bun and the effort required for different hair types to achieve it. We could look at the tights and shoe colour. Whilst there now is some colour choice they are not freely available everywhere and can cost more. Also, it could be a white working class ballet dancer publicly called out by an adjudicator about her fake tan being not appropriate in a ballet competition. Or the BAME dancers parents unable to afford multiple pairs of pointe shoes for competitions and exams let alone purchasing a tutu or accessing summer schools therefore their child is unable to pursue it to an advanced level and remain living at home. Even getting to the London RAD headquarters for a ballet exam knocked out the finances of one family (practice tutu, leotard, pointe shoes, bus tickets, day off work for zero contract parent, lunch). How many ballet graduates are there that are British BAME each year? Also, look at the audiences for ballet. Why is there a diverse audience for Ballet Black but not so much ENB or RB for example? 
Disclaimer: I am white and even me writing this makes me feel uncomfortable and we haven’t even started on the ballet repertoire and how race is depicted. 

[Jan McNulty]

20 minutes ago, Drdee said:

I don’t want to be contrary for the sake of it but I think you may have misread some of the points in the article. They have dropped the ballet class from their audition process. 

 

You make some interesting and valid points Drdee.

 

Although not the subject of this specific article (which does not feature on the main Arts page of the Telegraph - I had to google it for the Links) one of the issues seems to be to persuade BAME children to go to ballet classes or to go and watch live ballet in a theatre.

 

In 2000 a friend and I travelled to Atlanta to see Atlanta Ballet perform Michael Pink's Dracula.  While we were out and about during the day (walking and using public transport) we saw very few non-BAME people but, at the 3 performances we saw (sitting in the stalls) we saw very few BAME people in the audience.  On the Saturday afternoon we were sat next to a lady and got talking to her.  She didn't actually live in Atlanta and was only visiting from California.

 

I have noticed over the years that there is a far more diverse audience for contemporary dance (both in terms of ethnicity and age), Alvin Ailey and Ballet Black.

 

I don't know what the answer is and I don't think it is only a question of how expensive ballet training can be.  For me, it is much more about attracting people to be interested in ballet.

[FLOSS]

 

 

I don't think that the author of this article or the subeditor has misunderstood anything. The way the article has been written is designed to secure an emotional response to its contents rather than to inform those who read it. It has almost certainly been devised to be misread.We need to recognise that this article has been written  for a specific readership and that it could have been written in a totally different and far less culturally loaded way than  in fact it was. The article could have begun by telling the reader that the school was dropping previous experience of classical ballet as an entry requirement and why it was doing so. However the author chose not to do this and instead wrote several paragraphs containing an apparently innocuous account of the origins of classical ballet before telling the reader in the last paragraph that ballet was still an element of the school's curriculum.Welcome to the world of the culture war, dog whistles and in particular the war on woke. 

 

If your response to the headline was to began to feel a mounting level of incomprehension tinged with a little anger at the stupidity of what this school was apparently doing then the subeditor and the journalist who wrote the article have achieved their ends which was not to tell you that this school has dropped previous experience of ballet as an entry requirement but continue to teach ballet as part of its curriculum which would have been a non-story but to make the reader angry about the stupidity of the effects of being woke and the danger it poses to "our culture." Try reading the article again setting out to identify just how many of the apparently purely descriptive words and phrases  used in it and the sequence in which the article tells the reader about the actions the school has taken seem intended to inform the reader and just how much of it night have been devised to secure an emotional response. 

 

 

[LinMM]

Has the person who wrote this article been to the ballet in the last five years or so? Have they never seen a Wayne McGregor ballet? Just one example. 
Even in the waltz from Swan Lake danced by RBS students yesterday the final part showed the dancers in a circle with alternative jumping and lifting of partners ( boys lifting/ supporting girls to jump and girls supporting/lifting boys to jump. 
I know this is a small part of the subject but I think it’s more about making ballet more accessible not excluding it as almost some undesirable skill to have. 

Also I’ve never yet attended any dance class in any style of Dance ( numerous for me over the years) that you did not have to pay for. It’s not only ballet lessons that can be costly!!! 
I’d agree ballet buns are not necessary as long as the face can be seen with whichever hair style but this is a more minor point. 
The uniform for ballet ( leotard and tights objected to in this article) could be altered a bit ( the argument given is to make it easier for transgender people) but in classical dance it was designed so teachers could see what was going on with the muscles etc. so probably not necessary for occasional ballet dancers but for those seeking a career this is more important….just practical issues. 

I think both Royal Academy and Royal Ballet are now promoting ballet in Primary schools which is great and should help to attract more diversity and bring ballet to wider group of students.  
But in anything striving for a high degree of excellence ( as for example in learning a musical instrument to a professional level) the competition will be strong so many hopefuls are eventually excluded …at least at Professional level …because so many others are more talented!! That’s just the way it is. You don’t have to be excluded from continuing though just accept may not be a career path for you. 
As long as access is made more equal for all at the lower levels ….including more scholarships awarded….then ballet is no more elitist than many other things to study as I see it. 
There is so much variety of Dance out there these days to be enjoyed and it’s lovely to see the increasing diversity across them all ( eg white ethnic now joining in Indian Dance and hip hop etc etc.) 

Its right to be compassionate to all people and try to understand others issues who may be different to yourself but I can’t help feeling some people are making a bit too much of gender and which pronoun to use! 
This should only be important in private personal interactions where somebody wishes you to change the “usual” pronoun…when with them …it shouldn’t be turned into some sort of general crime or tyranny. 
I hope I don’t regret posting this! 

 

 

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11021715/Top-dance-school-Leeds-scraps-BALLET-auditions-branding-elitist-white-art-form.html

 

This is the article in the Mail.  Interestingly enough is gives the costs for attending NSCD.  The article also states that ballet will continue to be taught.

 

Many people, not just BAME, cannot afford the cost of full-time or intensive training but the writer of the original article is, in my opinion, just trying for sensationalism.

 

Not that it's got anything to do with the price of fish or even dance but many years ago I was told that women should not paint ceilings because they are physiologically different for me.  For men it is all upward and for women it is all downward.  So women are good for walls etc and men are good for ceilings.  My Dad was absolutely useless at decorating but he always did the ceilings and my Mum the rest.

 

 

[LinMM]

Hee hee both my dad and my partner did/does the ceilings … well the top coat anyway!! 

[Sim]

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde: "I am pleased to say I have never seen a paintbrush'!  (My hubby does all the painting and decorating....I am totally useless!).

[Sim]

I am too hot and tired to get into a debate about the above, but the point of a bun is not only to see the ballerina's face, but also her lovely long neck, which starts the line down her back and all the way through to her pointe shoes.  It is simply tradition...I hope that these traditions won't be lost.  Some people seem to think that tradition is elitist.  We are already losing too much of our history, heritage, culture and traditions just so that people aren't 'offended'.  I hope that we maintain some of them, even if just the small things, like being able to request that dancers wear buns.  I know from speaking to dancers that they like wearing their hair like this, not only for how it looks, but it also keeps them cool in that their necks are exposed to the air. 

[LinMM]

But dancers could have short hair too equally able to see the neck! 
Obviously everything has to be completely off the face tidy for exams and performances etc but day to day classes where the girls may not even go on to vocational level Im not so sure. 
I’m probably a bit of a rebel on buns though as I’ve always disliked them partly because with my extremely fine hair which wouldn’t grow beyond shoulder length keeping a bun in place was not easy. 
When I used to dance with a Polish group we were supposed to have plaits so I had to buy false ones in the end! Needless to say these could be very unreliable in staying put too 😱

Some styles of short hair can be very flattering to dancers is where I’ll leave it 😊
I do think however that some parts of that article are very petty. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by LinMM

[Sim]

7 hours ago, LinMM said:

But dancers could have short hair too equally able to see the neck! 
 

They could, but it wouldn’t work very well in ballets such as Giselle, Serenade, etc!!  

[LinMM]

Yes I can see that if you progress to the level of being able to perform Giselle longer hair would be absolutely essential!!….. though I suppose you could wear a wig lol!! 
 

[Peony]

Didn’t Osipova have a short crop at one point? I do think things should change and adapt to be more inclusive. With modern sports fabrics there’s no reason that females in ballet have to wear leotard and tights. It undoubtedly restricts participation

[Ian Macmillan]

Putting hair aside, The Times has picked up on that School's initiative:

 

Ballet ‘too white and binary’ for dance school’s auditions

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d4e93922-060a-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=e51d159d5ef46d93c550afd86e6ff81f

 

I don't see the argument developed past the piece at the top of the thread, though there's a mention of the Sunday Telegraph, so I imagine it may also have surfaced there yesterday.

[Sim]

44 minutes ago, Peony said:

Didn’t Osipova have a short crop at one point? I do think things should change and adapt to be more inclusive. With modern sports fabrics there’s no reason that females in ballet have to wear leotard and tights. It undoubtedly restricts participation

Why? And what do you suggest they wear instead?

[Peony]

Because leotard and tights aren’t acceptable to many due to the amount of flesh on show. For cultural reasons but also for many from teens upwards. And I believe it’s one reason why people drop out. There’s no reason why leggings, shorts, sports tops, tunics, skirts etc couldn’t be worn. If you look at adult classes most aren’t in just tights and leotards and are dancing just the same. Look back in time and the uniforms have got skimpier. There’s no excuse for not modifying dress so that more can participate. 

[Pas de Quatre]

It would seem that Cassa Pancho's hard work at Ballet Black hasn't yet been generally recognised! As far as I can understand it, NSCD is merely falling in line with the other main contemporary dance schools, LSCD and Laban. The latter in particular is more interested in the potential of the individual. Famous example is Matthew Bourne who had little prior training beforehand.

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Peony said:

Because leotard and tights aren’t acceptable to many due to the amount of flesh on show. For cultural reasons but also for many from teens upwards. And I believe it’s one reason why people drop out. There’s no reason why leggings, shorts, sports tops, tunics, skirts etc couldn’t be worn. If you look at adult classes most aren’t in just tights and leotards and are dancing just the same. Look back in time and the uniforms have got skimpier. There’s no excuse for not modifying dress so that more can participate. 

I suggest that more flesh is on display from a skirt and from shorts than from a pair of tights that hides bare flesh.  And with a leotard the only bare flesh shown is three quarters of the arms and the bit just below the neck.  If that is a problem for some dancers then they could wear a light scarf and still be covered up and be able to have the freedom to dance ballet that has given rise to this classroom outfit. 

[Pas de Quatre]

A teacher needs to see the alignment of the body, spine and pelvis in particular. Looking in profile, is the spine excessively curved and the pelvis tilted forwards or back? Looking straight on from the front or the back, again is the spine curved - lordosis and do the ribs stick out more on one side? Are the two hip crests even. If not is this a spinal problem or different leg lengths, and are shoulders even? So much vital technical information is gleaned by the teacher observing the body, otherwise serious injury can result.

[Peony]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

I suggest that more flesh is on display from a skirt and from shorts than from a pair of tights that hides bare flesh.  And with a leotard the only bare flesh shown is three quarters of the arms and the bit just below the neck.  If that is a problem for some dancers then they could wear a light scarf and still be covered up and be able to have the freedom to dance ballet that has given rise to this classroom outfit. 

honest question have you danced in a camisole leotard and thin pink tights?

(skirts and shorts are generally worn over tights but shorts could be knee length cycling shorts). 
you’ll see on many threads that anyone with a bust, or menstruating, or uncomfortable with such brief attire has a major problem. I really don’t think the inflexible attitude does ballet any favours, it’s not inclusive and leads to lots of people dropping out or not learning in the first place. Ditto hair, as long as it’s not in the way who cares whether it’s a crop or in a bun? 

[Sim]

10 minutes ago, Peony said:

honest question have you danced in a camisole leotard and thin pink tights?

(skirts and shorts are generally worn over tights but shorts could be knee length cycling shorts). 
you’ll see on many threads that anyone with a bust, or menstruating, or uncomfortable with such brief attire has a major problem. I really don’t think the inflexible attitude does ballet any favours, it’s not inclusive and leads to lots of people dropping out or not learning in the first place. Ditto hair, as long as it’s not in the way who cares whether it’s a crop or in a bun? 

A lot of people care, actually.  In answer to your question, ballerinas in any kind of proper dance class dance in the thick tights they always wear, and in normal leotards, not camisoles.  I think you need to be clear on what it is you're objecting to, and at what level.  Furthermore, ballerinas also menstruate...but they don't let that stop them.  There are plenty of ballet classes where you can wear what you want, look how you want and still participate.  I have seen that on many threads.

[Sim]

Thread locked after a couple of complaints.  

[Jan McNulty]

NSCD has issued a statement:

 

https://www.nscd.ac.uk/blog/ballet-at-nscd-is-here-to-stay/