Adjudicators can make or break young dancers

[justme2]

My grand daughter was a wonderful ballet dancer and went thru all the grades never getting less than 92% in all her RAD exams.  There was a local competition held in her local area with a an adjudicator from out of the area as the to be the judge.  The adjudicator also taught ballet and had a student that was always did well but could never quite pip my Grand daughter.  Come the competition which was only open to locals Grand daughter came second, the girl that one was a lovely girl  and it was it first time on point.  The adjudicators comments were I am not awarding this award to the best dancer I am awarding it to the young dancer that I think may have a lot of promise.  Grand daughter was guttered but a fair loser, after that she decided she didnt need people like this in her life and gave up ballet all together she was at advanced 2. How many other adjudicators are out there breaking teenagers spirits. She wasn’t a sore loser she has not won everything but always had fair treatment, just couldn’t see the point when adults get this petty. She is well adjusted and found a team sport which is is thriving at.  She is also NCEA excellent s student. 

 

[Jan McNulty]

Hello justme2 and welcome back out of the lurking shadows.

 

I've moved your post to the more appropriate Doing Dance forum.

 

I am sure DPs will have more to chip in but I know what you mean.  The art teacher laughed at my efforts in school many years ago and so I thought I never had any talent for art whatsoever in any way, shape or form.  Coming up to 3 years ago I was persuaded to go to an art workshop that was in part a fund raiser for a charity I am involved in.  I discovered that while I will never be a Leonardo Da Vinci I can sketch a bit and use watercolours to reasonable effect and it has been giving me a lot of joy - especially during lockdown!

[DVDfan]

I completely sympathise. About three years ago I submitted a novel to a scheme which offered appraisals. I did this because I felt there was something wrong with it, but wasn't sure quite what,  and so I hoped for some useful feedback - I wasn't expecting fulsome praise. What I in fact got gave me writer's block for over two years and has put me off ever submitting work to anyone ever again. It wasn't the pointing out of faults, it was the tone of impatient contempt - the 'how dare this fool expect me to read this rubbish' breathed into every line. And this was something I had paid for, mark you, from a professional.

 

When I protested to the writing scheme about the tone of the feedback, I was told that I would have to expect reams of criticism online and elsewhere if I wanted to publish my work. I'm sure you'll be told on here that any performing arts career is full of rejection. BUT...I had paid for help and advice, not contemptuous rejection, and the judge at the competition had been brought in to give an unbiased judgement based on what she saw that day. So not the same thing at all, and neither had any justification for what they did.

[Jan McNulty]

That's absolutely awful DVDfan.  There are ways of giving constructive criticism and ways of destroying.

 

If people comment, for example, on Amazon when they have read your work and they didn't like it that is one thing but a professional organisation should know better than to behave in this way.

[glowlight]

@DVDfan - I hope you've got through your writers block and are back on track with your novel.  Have you tried https://writershq.co.uk/ for support?  Their forum has a section for writers seeking Beta readers.  The feedback I have had through this has always been gentle and constructive.  Because your reviewer is another writer they understand how precious your work is and how fragile your confidence in it might be.

[glowlight]

@justme2 - I thinks sometimes an experience like this can be the final straw, the one which tips a decision that has been floating in someone's mind for a while into something more concrete.

 

On its own the adjudicator's comments might not have seemed so bad.  It sounds as if it is the history and possible motivation behind it which your grand daughter found hard to swallow.

 

I really hope that her spirit isn't truly broken by this.  It sounds as if it isn't as she is enjoying her sport.  On the contrary - I think this has given her the confidence to say...'I don't want any more of that!'  Well done her!

 

In terms of RAD exams she had almost gone as far as she could, and unless she was set on being a professional dancer or ballet teacher maybe it makes sense for her to focus her energy on something which gives her more pleasure now.  

[Kate_N]

9 hours ago, justme2 said:

How many other adjudicators are out there breaking teenagers spirits.

 

This really cannot be put at the door of one person. The decision to stop or stay dancing is a complex one, and it may be that the young dancer concerned was starting to see the wider picture. In terms of ballet as a career, the level of marks in exams is only a very small part of the picture. A lot of young dancers start to see how they compare with others once they move into situations beyond their local studios.

 

Sometimes, young people are far more realistic about the bigger picture than their loving families. It may be that this competition allowed your granddaughter to see the bigger scope of the ballet world and was her "excuse" to make a graceful exit in as easy a way as possible. She may have been looking for a solid reason to give up  - as @glowlightsays:

 

21 minutes ago, glowlight said:

I thinks sometimes an experience like this can be the final straw, the one which tips a decision that has been floating in someone's mind for a while into something more concrete.

 

But if it really is that one second prize is enough to cause a young person to stop an activity, then the loving family around them needs to do something about developing her resilience and self-esteem. Coming 2nd in a competition is not a disaster! Quite the reverse - how amazing to be second out of any number of dancers. And if that is compounded with what you are saying was overt favouritism, then that is a further reason for this young dancer to dismiss the result and keep on going.

 

People should be learning ballet  for the skill, the art, the enjoyment - not to pass exams or win prizes. These are things you do along the way of gaining a full mastery of a very difficult art; they should not be the reason. That is putting the cart before the horse, and generally won't lead to happiness or contentment.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Kate_N

[Pas de Quatre]

When I first opened my ballet school I entered local festivals to give my pupils a chance to get on stage, hoping that eventually the school would grow enough to allow me to have my own shows which it did.  Unfortunately I did witness some awful decisions and harsh words to candidates.  these were dancers from different schools and one that particularly stuck in my mind was a "rant" towards a young dancer about her costume.  She had done a lovely "Mary had a little lamb" and was dressed appropriately to my mind in a long white tutu with coloured bodice and overskirt.  Over several years it became clear that apart from classical classes, the more elaborate the costume, the more marks were awarded.  Demi caractère simply got marked down.

 

The final straw came during a group dance I entered.  I had a very talented young boy who was a JA.  This was in the days before regional centres, Associate classes only existed in London and Birmingham, and he attended the classes at Baron's Court (before the Covent Garden upper school was built).  This is just to show how exceptional he was as there were so few places at that time.

 

I had entered a group to Holtz's music The Magic Potion.  This boy was the Magician and dressed in an "Aladdin" style waistcoat, baggy trousers and a turban.  when the Adjudicator started her comments, she said strong dancing from the lead and added in a faux conspiratorial stage whisper "but of course I know you are really a girl under there"!  He simply replied "No, I am a boy".  You could have heard a pin drop!  His parents and I laughed it off, but later I wished I had made a formal complaint, and vowed never to expose any pupils of mine to such stupidity again.  He carried on dancing for a while but dropped out about 18 months later.

 

From time to time I would drop in to watch festivals to see what was happening and I never saw anything that made me change my mind.

 

 

[fromthebalcony]

Competitions are a very tricky thing. While preparation for competition is valuable, those surrounding the dancer (teachers, parents, coaches) should make sure to discuss the fact that competition medals mean very little in the grand scheme of things. It is the preparation and opportunity to perform on stage which can help the dancer who is desirous of a career in dance. There are countless professional dancers who either never competed in a ballet competition or did not win a ballet competition. Ballet is very difficult and dancers must have a thick skin. I feel very sorry for your granddaughter, that her hopes were dashed. But it sounds as if she is happy doing something else, so maybe ballet wasn't what she really wanted to do. Could she return if she wanted? You can tell her that I know of so many dancers who didn't win at competition, but are dancing in major companies around the world. Politics can play a role in competition as well.  I know a story of one young man in our home town who was sent to Korea to compete. He knew one of the judges. This young man got the silver medal, and the judge he knew told him that they could not give him the gold medal, even though he deserved it. They had to give it to a Korean. He is now a principal dancer with a wonderful career. 

[akh]

My granddaughter always viewed festivals as performance opportunities and a means of not only presenting solo performances but learning to dance as part of groups, duets and trios. She was always interested to listen to adjudicators comments but fully realised they could vary so. What she valued above all was her teachers comments on her performance and her own assessment of her performance. On one occasion she was not happy with her performance did win the section and another girl from her school said why are you not happy, you won, and she replied but winning was not the point, I wasn't happy with it. 

[Dance*is*life]

Akh - I so agree with you.  I did competitions, festivals and shows all through my pre-pro training and loved it!    Sometimes I won, sometimes I didn't, but I just loved having the chance to get on stage and dance for an audience. In addition if our school won the section, even if it wasn't me, I was very proud!   Although I think in today's competitive world that kind of loyalty to a school may be passé!  Exams are marked quite differently from competitions, so the fact that your granddaughter, justme2, always got really high marks for exams, does not necessarily mean that what the examiners were looking for would be the same for the competition judges' as far as their decisions were concerned.   I do also feel that, if getting second would have been such a blow to her that she would give up, there have to be other underlying influences.   

[Pups_mum]

Lots of people have strong feelings on festivals/competition in general. Personally I think they have their place, but it's best not to take them too seriously. There is a lot to learn from them, especially for dancers who don't have many other performance opportunities open to them. And they are definitely a lesson in resilience.

Any kind of assessment, be that adjudication in a festival, or an exam, or an audition, is a snapshot of a dancer's ability and to some degree a reflection of the assessors personal opinion and taste. Judging an art can, in my opinion, never be completely objective, and dancers do have to learn to deal with that. Faced with choosing between a less demanding dance performed flawlessly and a far more difficult one with a few errors, or a technically excellent but somewhat uninspiring presentation vs a less refinined but captivating performance, what is "best"? We might all have our preferences, but as the saying goes "the adjudicator's decision is final" and we do know that when we enter competitions. The important thing is not to place too much importance on that one piece of feedback but to add it to the bigger picture. 

My DD did festivals from the age of 5 to 17 and encountered a wide range of adjuducators. There were times when I thought she was hard done by but also others when she was placed and we were both very suprised. That's how the cookie crumbles. I have come across a few (and only a few) adjudicators who I considered "poor" - the ones whose comments were more about hair and make up than dance, and the odd one who made harsh comments to small children. Teens are a bit different. They are masters of their own fate to a larger degree and should be better able to accept negative feedback as well as positive, but I have no time for any adjudicator who criticises a 5 year old's grooming for instance. Fortunately these are few and far between in my experience and on the vast majority of occasions there was something to be gained from the comments, either directly to DD or to other competitors, even if I didn't necessarily agree with the placings. Adjudicators are humans after all, with strengths, weaknesses, likes and dislikes, and they are giving a subjective opinion, not marking a maths paper with definite rights and wrongs.

DD learned a lot from festivals, and at least as much of it was general life lessons rather than dance specific. Learning to deal with, as Kipling puts it, those "2 impostors" is very valuable, whether a young person goes into dance as a career or something unrelated. I'm glad my DD got the chance to learn some of those lessons from a young age, with me and a supportive teacher by her side, as they have come in very useful in her later life.

I'm sorry your grandaughter was upset by this decision OP, but from what you've said, I doubt the adjudicator was trying to break anyone's spirit. Probably if anything she was trying to encourage the other girl in whom she saw potential. Therr are, without doubt, some bad apples in the adjudicator pool, but in my experience most are decent people doing a job where they can never please everyone. 

[Anna C]

I so agree with Pups_mum and was going to say just that; judging ballet or any art form is always going to be subjective, and when there’s only one Judge, they are always going to be expressing their own, subjective opinion, and that’s not going to be the same as someone else’s.  Of course, there is favouritism in ballet, and while it’s not ideal, it is widespread - even as an audience member, I have my favourite Royal Ballet dancers, and others who really don’t “float my boat.”

 

I very much doubt that this one adjudicator was out to break anyone’s spirit, and I agree that for one comp to make your granddaughter give up ballet, it’s likely that it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, and/or she had been wanting to stop ballet for a while.

 

I remember my daughter doing an RAD competition some years ago, where the Adjudicator was a revered examiner and judge.   The competition was in the form of a class, watched by parents and of course the Adjudicator.  The class itself was excellent, taught by a wonderful ex Birmingham Royal Ballet dancer.  The judging was questionable though, in terms of who won, but what made me really cross was that despite having some wonderful “jumpers” in the class, the Adjudicator declined to award the Allegro prize, saying “Nobody impressed me enough to give this award”.  So demotivating for the dancers, all of whom looked really deflated, and the long day ended on such a flat note.  Whether the Adjudicator was in a bad mood that day, who can say, but it felt like she didn’t want to be there, which made us feel the day had been a waste of our time and money, and the dancers’ energy.

 

However - although we validated our daughter’s feeling of injustice, disappointment and annoyance, we also reminded her that the class itself had been a super one and a really worthwhile experience, so to think of the day as a masterclass rather than a competition.  And of course that the ballet world can be brutal, unjust, and that if aiming for a career as a dancer, unfortunately unjust/biased people would crop up again and again.  Not that that’s ok, but it is a fact.  She loved ballet so much that no one person could have made her stop.  It was something else entirely that made her change paths.

 

Even now, dancing on her university team, dd sometimes comes up against unfair judging and “unsporting” opposition, but the team also puts on a fantastic show, has guest teachers coming in to run workshops, and has a vibrant team social life.  Above all, they all love dancing so much that one unfair competition wouldn’t make them stop dancing; they accept the injustices as annoyances and shrug them off.
 

Unfairness and injustice are something most people have to deal with, in all walks of life, unfortunately, but especially in the ballet world.  If we can prepare our children for it and help them pick their battles, it will only help them in later life.  

 

It sounds like your granddaughter has found great enjoyment in sport now, so perhaps she has gone as far as she wanted to in ballet - or she may come back to it as a young adult, as a lovely hobby. 

 

 

[DVDfan]

Thank you for your kind words, Jan and Glowlight. I am writing again now - entirely for myself and with no thought of a readership, which is a very relaxing place to be.  If the OPs granddaughter was getting pleasure from ballet, I hope one day she'll feel able to go back too.

I agree with Anna that judging any kind of creative art or performance is partly subjective, but it isn't entirely. There are various technical issues that can be judged objectively - structure of the plot, quality of the dialogue in writing, presumably security on pointe etc in ballet. 

Sometimes a piece of criticism really gets under your skin, lodges itself in your mind like the sliver of ice in Andersen's story, and makes continuing with the activity impossible, at least for the present. This may not be the intention or even the fault of the critic - but nor is it a sign of moral weakness in yourself. The human mind is very complicated.

 

I also think, having read the posts on here for many years, that it is high time ballet children and their parents voted with their feet in a number of situations. I don't think it is resilient to put up with bad behaviour from authority figures - this is not the same as being outclassed in competition or not picked for a role in a show. 

[justme2]

Thankyou for your feedback, Grand daughter has moved on but did mention the other week how much she missed her dancing but being a teen she now has a life outside the dance.  The sad thing is she never did mind coming second but it was the adjudicator stating the fact that the best dancer was not going to get the award which seems so wrong when it had always been giving to the best dancer on the day, The Adjudicator actually stood on stage and made this statement so it wasn’t just written in a report.  The parents of the winner actually apologised for the outcome which really had nothing to do with them.  As the Grand daughter has decided it is a false world you can always have the rug pulled out from under you in one sweep.  Good luck to all the dancers and alway look over your shoulder you never know what is coming. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by justme2

[Ruby Foo]

Personally, I think that it’s so important that  people in positions of power, when dealing with young people ( especially adolescents) need very clear/ sensitive communication. The choice of words are SO important. It may not be the news you want to hear but if you ‘understand’ the motives and it’s delivered sensitively, then you can learn and move on. The idea of making students curious and reflective about why they didn’t win this time round would be preferable to crushing all self esteem. 

Resilience is not about grinning and bearing it, but continuing to learn knowing that ultimately your self worth can only be measured by you and not by others.

 

 

 

[Dance*is*life]

I can so empathise with Anna C's daughter about the non awarding of the allegro prize.  When I was at RBS US we entered for a competition there - 20 senior girls.   We all worked really hard on our chosen solos for 3 months - my Mum even found the money for private coaching for me.  The day of the long awaited competition came and on the same day there was a late entrant - Wayne Sleep.  Need I say more?  He danced last and without even deliberating the judges called us all back on stage and awarded him the prize.  Did he deserve it?  Of course !!   But until today, when I think about it, it really upsets me that the judges didn't even bother to consider our solos and to at least commend two or three of the girls!   I once entered for a special modern dance cup in the All England comp.   A wonderful boy won it hands down,  but they took the trouble to praise me as runner-up and even to bother to make me a little replica trophy as the winner of the girls!   It's all about having a little consideration for a dancer's feelings.  

[RosiesDream]

Sadly, ballet is nothing but competition, and a sensitive person can be desperately hurt.

Don't stop competing, folks, just don't let it matter too much, it is all good practice for life's ups and downs. The following is really good advice

 

[invisiblecircus]

On 30/01/2022 at 03:01, justme2 said:

The adjudicators comments were I am not awarding this award to the best dancer I am awarding it to the young dancer that I think may have a lot of promise.  Grand daughter was guttered but a fair loser, after that she decided she didnt need people like this in her life and gave up ballet all together she was at advanced 2. 

 

 

I think I'd have been more gutted if I was the one being handed first prize with an announcement that I wasn't the best dancer there, how embarassing! 

I recall when I was at secondary school and there was a rapping competition. There were two boys who were brilliant and were well known around the school for this, spending most of their free time putting new material together, performing locally etc. Obvously they were streets ahead of any other entries to this competition, but when the prizes came to be awarded, one of the judges (a teacher) came over to them and said that although everyone knows they're the best, they were going to have to give the first prize to another group otherwise people might be discouranged from entering similar competitions in the future. They shrugged and nodded their heads, but no one gained anything from the situation. It must have been discouraging for them not to be allowed to excel in the field in which they were talented and embarassing for the group who won, realising that they weren't the best there and probably entering the competition knowing everyone else was competing for second place. It was also disappointing for the audience not to see the first prize going to the group who most deserved it. 

We also had a very talented 100m runner at our school. On sports day, no one asked him to slow down a bit to give everyong else a chance at winning!

[Pas de Quatre]

When I was at a mixed Grammar school - many years ago - we still had Prizes for 1st, 2nd & 3rd in the Summer term end of year exams.  There were also special prizes - one was for Domestic Science, and it was widely considered an insult as it was only ever awarded to someone who was struggling academically, it didn't matter whether they could cook or not.  Incidentally the things I learnt in Domestic Science have proved to be some of the most useful things in my life.  The Headmaster was quite forward thinking as he allowed some boys to join us rather than doing their woodwork class!

[Pups_mum]

My children have been on all sides of the "not the best" winning something scenario and I agree that it depends a lot on how the adjudicator phrases the feedback. The best I ever heard was at a music competition which my son won, despite obviously not being the best player on the day. And there was a significant monetary prize so it was all a bit awkward! But the adjudicator explained it beautifully. It was actually a masterclass kind of thing. Each competitor gave their performance, had what was essentially a short public lesson from the adjudicator and then performed their piece again. She gave really detailed feedback to them all, but said that she'd chosen my son because he was the one who had best implemented her teaching into his second performance and gave very specific examples. The word "best" was never used. It made sense. My son felt like he deserved his prize, and whilst the most accomplished player was clearly still disappointed, they "got it" too. Nobody felt insulted. (Or if they did, they hid it extremely well.)

I've noticed that the standard of adjudication at music festivals, even our little local ones, is very high generally, with all the competitors getting detailed individual feedback regardless of placing. However, that just wouldn't be possible at any of the dance festivals I have been to, unless they doubled the number of days they ran over. 

 

[invisiblecircus]

2 hours ago, Pups_mum said:

The best I ever heard was at a music competition which my son won, despite obviously not being the best player on the day. And there was a significant monetary prize so it was all a bit awkward! But the adjudicator explained it beautifully. It was actually a masterclass kind of thing. Each competitor gave their performance, had what was essentially a short public lesson from the adjudicator and then performed their piece again. She gave really detailed feedback to them all, but said that she'd chosen my son because he was the one who had best implemented her teaching into his second performance and gave very specific examples. The word "best" was never used. It made sense. My son felt like he deserved his prize, and whilst the most accomplished player was clearly still disappointed, they "got it" too. Nobody felt insulted. (Or if they did, they hid it extremely well.)

 

Being able to take direction is a vital skill for both a musician and a dancer and an extremely valid reason to award first place to one competitor over another, even moreso if the criteria for winning was explained in advance. In auditions for both schools and companies, this is a common reason for accepting one candidate over another who might appear to be a more obvious choice.

I always feel it's unfair when the criteria for winning is changed between the end of the performances and the awarding of the prize though!

[justme2]

Grand daughter has moved on with her other sport and enjoying it.  The ballet and dancing has taught her well and she has a great drive to want to to her best.  She was at the top of her dance and was selected to go to summer school in Hong Kong which she loved.  But the thing she said made me stop and think and a lot of parents should listen to the children.  Her and and her friend were in a doubles event and they won and received a medal and she said I won this this because we were the best not because one person decided I was the best and I think she found this to be her biggest achievement.

[Millicent]

I think festivals and competitions are great and very valuable if you look at them as a learning experience and performance opportunity. If you expect them to validate a dancer's talent or feelings then they are likely always going to disappoint.

 

I've seen lots of what I would call poor decisions by adjudicators. Most of it is personal preference and sometimes the best dancer doesn't win, or even place. That's the life of a dancer. It's not an objective sport. If you're going to give up ballet because you don't win enough medals then I suspect the dance world is not for you.

 

I teach my DD that festivals are a chance to learn. Sometimes she's made a mistake - like the time her perfectionism meant that adjusting her turnout mid arabesque meant that she had a big wobble and didn't place - and although she was only 9 at the time she took it in good humour and now knows not to adjust her position mid-pose! It cost her a trophy but I would argue that the lesson she learnt is much more valuable than adding a trophy to her shelf. 

 

If you go to festivals looking for validation of talent then you are going to be disappointed. If you go looking on it as a learning experience - whether that's performance experience, technique tips, or even just the realisation that dance appreciation is both subjective and sometimes "unfair" - then you will reap the benefits.

[Dance*is*life]

Pups_mum - sometimes corrections from an examiner can also be unfair.  One of my students was put through to the finals of a local scholarship competition, with the instruction to stop looking at the floor.  Of course I had been trying to get her to stop doing that for quite some time, so obviously she didn't manage to correct it in the finals.  And the judge didn't award her a prize because she hadn't corrected it.  I always thought that it was really unfair to expect that of her!  It's true that sometimes a correction from someone other than your own teacher works when months of nagging doesn't,   but the upshot was that she didn't lose because she looked down, but specifically because she hadn't made the correction.........

Edited February 7, 2022 by Dance*is*life

[Kate_N]

On 03/02/2022 at 21:19, Millicent said:

I think festivals and competitions are great and very valuable if you look at them as a learning experience and performance opportunity. If you expect them to validate a dancer's talent or feelings then they are likely always going to disappoint.

 

 

@Millicent I think your whole post should be framed! But this bit in particular is important.

[Mumofballetmaddaughter]

On 03/02/2022 at 21:19, Millicent said:

I think festivals and competitions are great and very valuable if you look at them as a learning experience and performance opportunity. If you expect them to validate a dancer's talent or feelings then they are likely always going to disappoint.

 

I've seen lots of what I would call poor decisions by adjudicators. Most of it is personal preference and sometimes the best dancer doesn't win, or even place. That's the life of a dancer. It's not an objective sport. If you're going to give up ballet because you don't win enough medals then I suspect the dance world is not for you.

 

I teach my DD that festivals are a chance to learn. Sometimes she's made a mistake - like the time her perfectionism meant that adjusting her turnout mid arabesque meant that she had a big wobble and didn't place - and although she was only 9 at the time she took it in good humour and now knows not to adjust her position mid-pose! It cost her a trophy but I would argue that the lesson she learnt is much more valuable than adding a trophy to her shelf. 

 

If you go to festivals looking for validation of talent then you are going to be disappointed. If you go looking on it as a learning experience - whether that's performance experience, technique tips, or even just the realisation that dance appreciation is both subjective and sometimes "unfair" - then you will reap the benefits.

Excellent advice Millicent. I encouraged my daughter from a young age to treat auditions in much the same way too.  

[Mrs Brown]

My daughters have been on the receiving end of somewhat unfair feedback on one occasion and one refused to compete ever again as a result. (The adjudicator was factually and technically incorrect with the corrections/suggestions they gave and she was insulted by it and would have preferred them to admit they didn't really know and were just choosing their favourite performances which is perfectly acceptable in my opinion). Anyway there is no opportunity to complain so said adjudicator is still going round making no doubt similar incorrect corrections and statements.... Other daughter has also been on the receiving end (or not) of the focus of awards being changed and therefore given to someone else. It does make me wonder why she competes and there is some annoyance on her part but she enjoys the performance opportunity and the feedback can be so useful. Sometimes it reiterates what the teachers have already said (repeatedly), sometimes it flags up something different perhaps opinions wise rather than technical. Sometimes you just dismiss it as utter rubbish or they plainly are talking about a different dancer as she didn't even do a particular step. But the opportunity to dance on a stage seems to outweigh all of that. I do think a good adjudicator isn't just someone with technical knowledge but someone who can phrase their feedback in the right way. One lovely adjudicator we had in an online competition last year said she never called her comments criticism but "tips". I liked that. She said that she was giving them some options on things they might like to incorporate into their performances. She is a highly skilled and very knowledgeable lady but the way she worded it meant that the dancers were far more likely to take it on board. Would love I if she did master classes as I am sure she would be a great teacher.

[Drdee]

I know in the work of assessment there is ‘assessment of learning’ and ‘assessment for learning’. We hope that adjudicators can ‘judge’ a dancer’s performance as well as give advice for future performances. I know in All England Dance there needed to be winners from a range of schools so there is an element of politics involved. When unplaced we would say ‘you danced beautifully you were just not acknowledged for it’. I would hope poor feedback would be pushed back to the giver of the advice not the receiver. In that it says more about them not the performance.

[Beezie]

This makes me think about how differently instrumental and vocal solo and ensemble competitions were handled when I was in school.

 

The participants (solo or small group) were assessed on a 1-5 scoresheet, with judges giving both positive and constructive feedback in different categories.  There was no winner or group recognition.  The participants could decide if they wanted to share or not share their results (but copies were provided to the music teacher, so he/she could improve their program.)

 

This seems so much more healthy, as you were competing against your own personal best….and students paid a lot of attention to the judges’ comments, not just who ‘won.’  There was also very little shaming, as quite a few students just didn’t want to share their results….regardless of whether their score was high or low.

 

Competitions with winners (1st, 2nd, 3rd) were reserved for large groups, where you can go through all the emotional ups and downs with your group members.

 

I think the need to recognize dance solo ‘winners’ is not productive.  What is it actually trying to accomplish, except a lot of hurt feelings?  I ‘think’ students do these competitions for the stage experience and the challenge to be their own personal best…..so why make them compete against other dancers?  And frankly, if the answer is placement at vocational schools and summer programs, let the recruiters sit in the audience and reach out privately to a student if they like the student’s performance.  The same thing is accomplished in a much more respectful manner.

 

I think a lot of dance culture needs a serious overhaul.  Keep the good things…..but we all need to work to get rid of the damaging things.

 

 

[taxi4ballet]

I think whether the dancer thinks that the result is fair or not has a big impact on how they feel about it. My dd did a fair few auditions, and at one place she had two, a year apart, and got a no from both. After the first one she came out really indignant and said that she felt the panel barely glanced at her and was watching other people all the time. She was particularly annoyed that they were looking elsewhere when she felt she did very well at some of the exercises. On the second occasion, she came out saying that she'd been aware that they watched her a lot and paid close attention. She could also tell that the panel was talking about her between themselves. When she got a 'no' that time, she said at least it was fair and she'd given it her best shot.

 

And yes, it was RBS!

 

[2dancersmum]

Auditions can be funny things. My DD attended 2 auditions also at one place, a year apart. First time - she made it through all the rounds to the final dozen girls but did not get the contract - they were only looking for 6 dancers - but got a positive rejection letter. A year later , having done another contract and gained more experience in the meantime, she felt quite positive going into the audition. It was exactly the same choreography as the year before - she was cut after two rounds.

[Peanut68]

On 19/02/2022 at 11:21, Beezie said:

I think a lot of dance culture needs a serious overhaul.  Keep the good things…..but we all need to work to get rid of the damaging things

This last paragraph should be in metre high letters!!