10 Reasons Dance is Undeniably a Sport....and so much more

[DD Driver]

I enjoyed this article: 10 Reasons Dance is Undeniably a Sport

(and so much more of course!)

https://www.dance-teacher.com/10-reasons-dance-is-undeniably-a-sport-2602916282.html

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by DD Driver

[DD Driver]

and I hope the woman doing the stretching in this recovers and learns how to warm-up properly instead!

[Tatasmum]

During the summer my father in law offered to pay for surfing lessons for my son and his two other grandchildren but left out my 12 yr old DD as he said it wasn't 'her thing'. She was very upset so her Dad had to approach  his Dad and change his  mind.

I knew DD would be fine(better than all or of them) as she has the core strength from years of dancing but her Granddad thought the football training done by the other grandchildren made them more eligible to surf.

On the day DD was the first to stand up and rode the wave back to shore. 

[alison]

Ypu might also be interested in this thread:

 

 

[Peanut68]

5 hours ago, Tatasmum said:

During the summer my father in law offered to pay for surfing lessons for my son and his two other grandchildren but left out my 12 yr old DD as he said it wasn't 'her thing'. She was very upset so her Dad had to approach  his Dad and change his  mind.

I knew DD would be fine(better than all or of them) as she has the core strength from years of dancing but her Granddad thought the football training done by the other grandchildren made them more eligible to surf.

On the day DD was the first to stand up and rode the wave back to shore. 

Yep, the DC’s will be first up on the boards every time! Strong core, suppleness, ability to spring up, balance & abilty to read the situation & to count! Waves are kind of like music.... they can be counted like bars of music & you have to anticipate just as you would in a ballet class coming in on time to correct section of music! 

I too have found family members not always helpful..... other grandchildren got huge monetary help for piano lessons but alas no help for mine.... we struggle on 😀

Edited October 1, 2018 by Peanut68
Typi

[Tatasmum]

@Peanut68 that's really sad, I would struggle to not kick off about it 😠

[Lisa O`Brien]

I'm sorry. Call me an old fart if you want. ( And I am). But Dance is an Art form. Even the most commercial  types of dance cannot be called a sport. Simply because Dance is athletic doesn't make it a sport. It is one of the performing arts and has been for centuries. Yes, nowadays dancers are incredibly athletic. But that doesn't make them sportsmen and women. The main difference is that in sport, the spectators can often see for themselves just how physically demanding the sport can sometimes be. In an Art form, any Art form, one of the whole reasons it IS an Art is that it is supposed to look effortless, even though it often isn't. You can SEE how difficult gymnastics and ice skating are, just by watching them. Imagine watching the Sugar Plum Fairy sweat, groan and grunt her way panting through her solo. You don't ever see her like that. Because the dancer has spent a great deal of time and effort going beyond the mere physical requirements of the role to make it look easy and effortless, therefore  elevating it way above and beyond mere physical or "sporty" prowess.

[Peanut68]

Oh yes, I do agree! But these artists can absolutely match the fitness & stamina of most athletes & sportspeople! And all whilst appearing effortless, elegant & with a polished smile 😁

[Harwel]

Now in my 50’s having spent my whole lifetime in and around the dance world - mother ballet teacher, me dancer, friends dancers, son at vocational school (other son drama/musical theatre).  I do not have a moments time for any ignorant sole who denegrates the effort, talent, dedication or worthiness of any of the performing arts.

 

Family, friend or foe will get the full force of my opinion on that before I walk away leaving them to contemplate their utter stupidity. Calling dance a sport tries to engage the ignorant into acceptance but in fact it makes it far less than it is.  I admire sportsmen/women tremendously for all the same reasons I admire dancers but to then add in the added artistic requirements and sensitivities - dancers are rather unique humans. 

[DD Driver]

I don't think dance is a sport either but I do think there are many commonalities in their search for physical excellence - appropriate to their specific endeavour. 

i.e. increasingly dancers are training like elite athletes and benefiting from the great progress in sports science and medicine

[DD Driver]

Sorry!!! It just looked a bit savage - but yes she is in a world of her own. 

No offense meant.

 

Our dance physio's are cracking down on static and ballistic stretching for our children. They are encouraged to do active / dynamic stretching instead i.e. where they take their joints through their full range of motion in a controlled manner without holding the stretch at the end of the range.

 

 

 

[Harwel]

8 hours ago, DD Driver said:

 

 

Our dance physio's are cracking down on static and ballistic stretching for our children. They are encouraged to do active / dynamic stretching instead i.e. where they take their joints through their full range of motion in a controlled manner without holding the stretch at the end of the range.

 

 

 

 

You are completely right DD driver.  The dance world is catching up with the sports specialists in how we should be looking after our bodies.  

 

SZ is a unique, very amazing dancer how she stretches is part of the old school ‘if it breaks you you’re not right for this’ and while it seems to suit her we don’t know of all the hundreds of kids that were broken In the process. We also don’t know what injuries she is nursing or how her body will be when she retires (double hip replacements at 40??). 

 

For instance, It is absolutely right that you should not do static stretches prior to class as it makes the body more prone to injury.  This is a VERY hard habit to break as it is so entrenched in the dance world.  Anyway, it’s a massive.very interesting topic and I am glad that better knowledge is filtering in so that our dancers can sustain longer, healthier careers. 

[Dance*is*life]

Lisa - if I could have given you two likes I would have!   I refuse to accept that my beautiful ballet is a sport. Sport doesn't satisfy the soul! I wish that there wasn't such an emphasis on athleticism nowadays, but even with that I cannot agree that it's a sport.  My husband is good at most sports and can't dance - no feeling for rhythm bless him. And I was hopeless at sport, except for basketball where as a shooter I could do a great temps leve in arabesque to pop the ball into the net!

[Harwel]

3 hours ago, Lil Miss Ballet Luva said:

 

 

Ah, she's 'old school' and completely unaware of new advances in dance health and science. I see. I dare say her teachers, physios and doctors at the Bolshoi, La Scala, Mariinsky and ABT are all stuck in the past too, or pander to her antediluvian approach.

 

Then you and DD Driver must contact her forthwith and tell her where she is going wrong, the antiquated methods she employs and the peril her hips are under. She's 40 next year so the double hip replacement is imminent.

 

Thank you so much for your incredibly rude, condescending and frankly childish response.  I am sure from your responses that you clearly must have attended these fine establishments too, so that you can know for sure that all their practices are fully up to date and they don’t have any outmoded practices.  I am sure you can also tell me with certainty that SZ is completely injury free and will have no long term physical repercussions from her dance journey. 

 

I also didn’t say she was going wrong, whatever she is doing works for her (not to be followed by impressionable young dance students who don’t have incredible facility and a team of dr’s, Physio’s and world class 1-2-1 coaches). If you could just lose the judgemental attitude and open you mind you might learn something. I shall not bother to respond further to the likes of you. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Harwel
Clarity

[CeliB]

19 hours ago, Lil Miss Ballet Luva said:

 

 

Ah, she's 'old school' and completely unaware of new advances in dance health and science. I see. I dare say her teachers, physios and doctors at the Bolshoi, La Scala, Mariinsky and ABT are all stuck in the past too, or pander to her antediluvian approach.

 

 

errm without wanting to fuel the fire actually I think this is probably exactly right (as far as the Russian companies go). My DSs experience of the Bolshoi and Vaganova Academy is that they are extremely old fashioned - he does have access to a medical centre and can get an instant MRI etc but he hasn't really managed to access any kind of rehab advice or treatment (in over a year of being in the company and he's never once managed to see the masseur or physio as they are never available outside his rehearsal schedule, and whilst at the Vaganova pretty much his only advice when injured was to rest until it got better). 

 

As a result of reading this article: https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2018/jul/15/raising-the-barre-how-science-is-saving-ballet-dancers plus some advice from DrDance I arranged for him to be assessed by the dance scientists at Laban and it was a complete eye opener-  I don't think there's anything as ground breaking as this going on in the Russian companies. Interestingly one of the key pieces of advice from the physio exactly mirrored a piece of Tsiskaridze's teaching, which shows that those with a brilliant understanding may be able to pass on that knowledge, but Tsiskaridze  is really exceptional in DS's experience.

 

The point is that clearly someone who is made it to the top using this kind of regime clearly has the physique that can cope with that. But if scientific research can show a better method, with proven outcomes (look at the injury reduction they quote- it's very impressive) doesn't it behold us all to embrace it?

 

Sorry for a long post, but there is no excuse for avoiding evidence. Otherwise we would still be living in the dark ages. Ballet is no exception.

[Anna C]

20 hours ago, Lil Miss Ballet Luva said:

 

 

Ah, she's 'old school' and completely unaware of new advances in dance health and science. I see. I dare say her teachers, physios and doctors at the Bolshoi, La Scala, Mariinsky and ABT are all stuck in the past too, or pander to her antediluvian approach.

 

Then you and DD Driver must contact her forthwith and tell her where she is going wrong, the antiquated methods she employs and the peril her hips are under. She's 40 next year so the double hip replacement is imminent.

 

Developments are constantly being made in how to increase dancers’ health, career longevity and their bone health once they stop dancing.  Yes, some countries and some companies are ahead of others in this respect, but pointing that out isn’t a personal attack on anyone.  

Darcey Bussell had to have hip resurfacing surgery aged 46 so yes, Zakharova may indeed need hip surgery at some point.  However, one would hope that with research into diet, gyrotonics, and so on that *today’s* young Principals in their 20s may be able to avoid hip surgery in 20 years’ time.  Surely that’s a good thing?  

If we didn’t learn and improve, dancers would still be living on cigarettes and diet coke and suffering the consequences thereof.  Just as we now know that the dancer’s body needs good food to fuel it and a certain level of internal fat, we also know that static overstretching *before* a full warmup in class is of no benefit whatsoever and can contribute to injury.  

 

It may work for Zakharova now because it’s what she’s been doing for 20+ years, and that’s her choice, but do we want to see the next two generations of dancers doing it? I don’t, because we’ve learned - and continue to learn - from the past.

[alison]

Thank you, CeliB: my own impression, both from some older "Russian" teachers in "the West" and from observations of the Russian companies, was that they didn't tend to be at the vanguard of new approaches to dance training, but it's good to have it confirmed.  I haven't watched the Bolshoi class from World Ballet Day yet, but my guess is that they haven't incorporated the "foot rises" or whatever they are called at the end of barre that Australian Ballet and the Royal Ballet have yet, for example.  I have no objection to sports science being applied to dancing as well, provided that it doesn't have any adverse effect in any way on a dancer's development - and that includes the more nebulous concepts such as artistry.

[Tutu24]

While the question of whether ballet is art or sport is a tricky one, I think a bigger problem might be that art isn't as accepted as sports in our culture. That is possibly why some dancers feel they aren't as supported as the athletes in their families. 

[LinMM]

In my own limited experience I have found that Russian teachers still encourage the turn out of the feet rather than the leg( from the hip) 

This may not affect those who have very good turn out from the hip anyway ( and so often chosen for vocational training) but could lead to knee damage in those less fortunate.

To me Ballet is definitely an art form .....rather than a true sport....but as it uses the body to express ideas and bring beauty to shape and movement then it seems a very good idea indeed to look after that body!! 

With many professional dancers especially principals who often are dancing up to twenty years at the top ....even with great care they may need things like hip replacements eventually ....and other operations particularly on feet...because the very nature of ballet is going to stress the hips knees and feet to a more than normal degree but one hopes with the increasing and greater general knowledge about these things dancers may be able to have longer and less injury prone careers and require less operations etc. 

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Lil Miss Ballet Luva said:

Wow. So many experts.

Yes.  We do have a lot of experts on this forum who really know what they are talking about.   

[glissade]

1 hour ago, Lil Miss Ballet Luva said:

 

Triggered, much?

Troll, much?

[Harwel]

1 hour ago, Lil Miss Ballet Luva said:

 

Triggered, much?

 

Namaste 🙏 May you find peace. 

[Harwel]

Just to let you all know what we are dealing with here. Lil miss ballet luva just sent me the following PM

 

‘Hey there you ****ing ****. may your children all get cancer and die screaming in agony you cocksucking pedophile ****.

 

You truly are a cocksucking **** whore and deserve to get AIDS.’

 

[LinMM]

I know CeliB and her son Oscar ...who I agree has turned into a first rate dancer .....but is also very unassuming with it!!

There are others on this forum who have children studying ballet at vocational schools and dancing in Companies and some are also long standing teachers .....so as you don't know who they are perhaps a bit more respectful in your comments? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LinMM]

Omg Harwel have just seen your post .....that's awful ....so looks like I've just wasted a post!!

[Harwel]

1 minute ago, LinMM said:

Omg Harwel have just seen your post .....that's awful ....so looks like I've just wasted a post!!

 

She is no ballet lover, just a troll! 

[Anna C]

Harwel, you can report that message to the Police under the Malicious Communications Act 1988.  

[Harwel]

Thanks Anna.  

[Sim]

Just to let you all know, this troll has been banned.

[Fiz]

Same old troll keeps turning up. Can’t her I.P. address be blocked? Harwell, that message was hideous. I’m so sorry and even sorrier that such wicked malice exists.

[Harwel]

Thanks Fiz.  Yes it is a very stark reminder that this is a public forum and that there are some truly vile people out amongst us. I actually genuinely hope she finds some peace as all that hate just gets directed back to herself. 

[Sim]

She clearly needs professional help.   Fiz, we are already looking into the IP thing.   

[Pointetoes]

Wow it’s so easy to forget that this is a public forum especially as everyone is so caring. Harwel  I hope you are ok, what an awful thing to happen. Let’s hope she gets some help.