Who is todays most famous dancer internationally or by country?

[SwissBalletFan]

SBF I'm not disputing that Bolle, Zakharova and Vishneva are world famous dancers that perform stand alone shows for thousands of ardent fans. I thought I'd made it clear in my post that I was speculating on the imagined results of if I straw-polled friends of mine who I believe to be reasonably culturally aware but not specifically ballet fans - as to who THEY would be able to name. I thought that was the original question in the thread, obviously I misunderstood it.

Forgive me if my response was too Uk-centric, but that is where I live and that is where most of my friends live, as to which dancers are household names in Russia and Italy i haven't the foggiest but I wasn't trying to answer that.

I will bow out now and leave the discussion to others.

Dear Emeralds, I apologise for misunderstanding your post, and I didn't not want at all to discourage you or anyone form participating. I misread the following paragraphs as a different point and so replied about Bolle, Zakharova etc.

 

I totally agree with you and others that 'fame' is totally regional and to ask friends or colleagues is a great way of investigating. So you were totally right about the original question.

 

Sorry, English is not my first language and again, I am surprised that people feel my words are not with empathy. I will try harder

[Mary]

It is an interesting discussion emeralds, don't go.

 

I agree- Acosta is the only one in the past 30 years or so whose name my friends, family and aquaintances  knew.

 

Looking at it another way, nowadays worldwide fame is often more of a curse than anything, - and usually based on matters that only lightly touch on the arts...or any solid achievement..so maybe it's a good thing for the dancers not to have it?

But not such a good thing that so many people who go to theatre, films, art galleries and are interested in the arts, are rather ignorant of dance. I too have been surprised that  certain people who virtually live in the National Theatre did not know BRB was separate from the Royal Ballet, had never heard of ENB at all,  and also thought Bolshoi and Marinsky were one and the same. It has also annoyed me that some of my  literary friends (my own background) look down on dance. I never give up  trying to show them the error of their ways.

[Fonty]

Well, my husband is no expert on things balletic, and only started coming after he met me.  He went once or twice a year in the past, but he hasn't been with me for years. Not because he has no interest any more, but because seats are now so expensive, he doesn't feel the need to see something he has already seen, and prefers to spend the money on other things.

 

On that basis, I didn't think it fair to limit it to dancers performing now, so just asked him if he could name any ballet dancers.  Without any prompting from me, he came up with:  Pavlova, Fonteyn, Nureyev, Moira Shearer, Lesley Caron, Ashton, Sir Peter Wright, Baryshnikov, Wayne Sleep, Dowell, Rojo, Yoshida, Mukhamedov, Aslymuratova, Cope, Bussell, Acosta, Kobborg & Guillem,  He mentioned "the girl in that Nutcracker thing at Christmas", but couldn't think of it.  I think that is quite an impressive list, even if most of those are past performers!  

 

I was really surprised at some of the names he remembered, to be honest, as he would only have seen most of them once, a long time ago.  And it doesn't surprise me at all that he has never heard of Misty Copeland,Polunin, Bolle, or Zakharova.  He's never seen them, why would he know who they were.  

Edited March 9, 2017 by Fonty

[alison]

I don't think you can necessarily use the number of followers of social media accounts as an entirely accurate reflection, simply because it depends when it was set up. Some dancers set up accounts years ago and have built up thousands of followers, whilst someone else may only have set up their account a month ago and have relatively few.

 

Also, some dancers post prolifically on the social media and use it very much as a promotion tool (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing unless it's done to death - there's a balance to be struck), whereas others post rarely.

 

Exactly the point I was going to make   (for example, certain tennis fans are very fond of pointing out that Rafael Nadal has approximately twice as many Twitter followers as Roger Federer - draw what conclusions you will from that)

[alison]

Reminds me of the University Challenge in 2015 when a team was asked three ballerina-related questions, and in the end the only answer they gave to all three was 'Margot Fonteyn'. (See the Raven Girl thread.)

 

They had another one only the other day, when someone answered "Margot Fonteyn" as an answer to a question which I think was about someone living and still performing :facepalm:

[_emeralds]

Ah, SBF I think it was a genuine misunderstanding, from both our sides, sorry! Nuances of meaning and tone do not always come across clearly when typed on a screen....much easier face to face

 

It IS a very interesting topic, and I am very much enjoying reading everyone's thoughts.

 

I had another thought about fame or celebrity these days - the general public seem to very much like a 'back-story', of someone triumphing over adversity. The British particularly seem to often root for the underdog. These TV talent shows that seem to have taken over (not that I particularly watch them!) such as X-factor, The Voice and so on seem to focus as much on the back story as the 'talent' or performance.

Much is made of Michaela de Prince, Misty Copeland and Carlos Acosta's backgrounds or how they triumphed over the odds. Quite rightly, to some extent. As Saodan has already pointed out earlier on this thread M de P is known as much for her early life as for her dancing. Does this help explain some dancers' fame, compared to their contemporaries. They make for more interesting news stories, it's more of an 'angle'?

 

Another consideration for me is in the past, pre Instagram and Facebook, dancers and celebrities generally were more private. Margot Fonteyn and Rudolf Nureyev had a mystery as well as a glamour. There is still a great deal of interest in their private lives to this day, but perhaps because it was always less 'out there' it somehow stays more enchanting?

 

Saying that, personally I enjoy the access we are granted to dancers today, such as live feeds, dancers' youtube channels and their social media platforms.

[Odyssey]

I think exposure in another media such as film undoubtedly helps. Mioira Shearer is a good example of this, as is Robert Helpmann.

[Odyssey]

I meant to add to my previous post (but it was too late to edit) I don' think Sylvie Guillem has been mentioned in this thread. Because she has been very protective of any images and filmed roles, this is probably why she doesn't share the wider fame of some names from her generation of dancers.

[Jacqueline]

I think exposure in another media such as film undoubtedly helps. Mioira Shearer is a good example of this, as is Robert Helpmann.

That's true. I only saw Robert Helpmann live on stage once. But his depiction of the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang has stayed with me all these years. That scene where the children were hiding in Benny Hill's cellar and they can hear the child catcher calling out. Then his face suddenly appears at the window. Fantastic shock value.

My mother used to go to the ballet around the time of Moira Shearer. She said as far as she can recall, Moira had a bit of a reputation for last minute no shows. When she did appear, she was wonderful though. Is that true that she was a bit unreliable? My mother is prone to exaggeration.

[Jam Dancer]

First black FEMALE principal dancer in ABT. Desmond Richardson was a principal with ABT in the 70s.

 

 

Desmond Richardson was born in the late 1960s so I don't think he would've been a principal in the 70s. I think it was in 1997 that he actually danced with ABT.

[Fonty]

I meant to add to my previous post (but it was too late to edit) I don' think Sylvie Guillem has been mentioned in this thread. Because she has been very protective of any images and filmed roles, this is probably why she doesn't share the wider fame of some names from her generation of dancers.

 

Well, I mentioned her in my post number 36.    And Moira Shearer and Robert Helpmann in another post.  

 

Did Shearer have a reputation for being a no show?  Never heard that.  I know she wrote in her autobiography that De Valois didn't like her, especially after the success of the Red Shoes, and seemed to go out of her way to be nasty to her.  Maybe that had something to do with it?

Edited March 10, 2017 by Fonty

[ivyvaine23]

by most famous dancer I assume you mean the most famous ballet dancers of all time? To me, one of the most famous is Alicia Markova. 

[alison]

I think we were originally talking about dancers currently performing, although we do seem to have gone off-topic a bit there!

[Bruce Wall]

If I had to hazzard a guess as to who was the most FAMOUS dancer in time ... I think it would have to be Astaire ... and, heaven knows, he lives on in the minds of an ever burgeoning many ... and I don't think he's gonna be going away any time soon  

[Jacqueline]

Darcey Bussell got a name check on Emmerdale last night! Fame at last.

Made me wonder about Sergei Polunin maybe doing a cameo on Coronation Street. Apparently there are many well known people desperate to be on the show, if only for a few seconds. I remember Sir Ian McKellen was brilliant as a character created for him, not just a cameo.

Sergei could get lost on his way to the Lowry, drop by the Rovers for a pint and one of Betty's famous hot pots, order one of Steve's cabs and compare tattoos with Peter Barlow while he's waiting. All beamed into millions of front rooms across the land. Priceless publicity.

Why not if Nureyev could sing and dance with the muppets and seem to be loving it.

[Beryl H]

I keep trying but can't think of anyone who would be called the most famous dancer at this moment, either in the world or in a particular country, if you went back a few years it would have been Darcey Bussell in the UK, but today? 

[Fonty]

I thought the question related to ballet dancers, but if it is any form dance, then  many people might name a person who won Strictly Come Dancing!

[balletsoccermom]

Here in the U.S., I bet nobody would name Carlos Acosta.  My bet here would be either Misty Copeland or Mikhail Barishnikov.

[toursenlair]

Here in the U.S., I bet nobody would name Carlos Acosta.  My bet here would be either Misty Copeland or Mikhail Barishnikov.

I would agree. I took a group of ballet lovers to London about 8 years ago and asked if they wanted to buy tix to see an extra performance with Acosta, and they said "Who?"

[Scheherezade]

Just goes to show how parochial we all are. Not to mention partisan.

[SwissBalletFan]

Just goes to show how parochial we all are. Not to mention partisan.

...(reaches for P in the dictionary)

 

It made me laugh to remember an Episode of Friends and Joey bought an encyclopaedia and could only afford the letter V and so talked about things starting with V the whole time

[bridiem]

Just goes to show how parochial we all are. Not to mention partisan.

 

Not necessarily - it's just that it's not really possible to know how famous certain people are in a country in which you don't live (hard enough really to know this even in one's own country!). Which is why it's interesting to hear views from different countries. e.g. I would have assumed that Acosta was very well known in North America, but clearly not.

[LinMM]

Perhaps Acosta hasn't performed that much in North America though. My NON going ballet friends had heard of him at least!! And Darcey of course....largely because of Strictly .....otherwise it's the famous ones from the past with a bit of a back story or huge contribution to Dance over a long period in some way like Nureyev Fonteyn and Pavlova of course!!

Current dancers for NON dancing friends are more difficult though one had heard of Ed Watson.

 

Acosta is well known in South American countries and obviously Cuba of course.

It's why we hardly know Misty Copland .....even though have heard of her of course...has she ever performed in UK?

 

Here we often seem to know the Russian dancers more than American ones as the Russian companies come here more often than those from the states or so it seems to me.

When are we going to see ABT and their Sleeping Beauty!!

[balletsoccermom]

For the non-ballet going audience, Misty is popular in the U.S. because she has been all over the news and on various television segments.  They don't know how she dances but they do know she is a ballet dancer.  

 

I agree with LinMM that over here, we seem to know the Russian dancers more than any other dancers as well.  It might just be my point of view, however, because my dd's training has been Russian based.  I think ABT and NYCB people may not know as much about Russian dancers.  

 

Interesting topic though...

[_emeralds]

It's why we hardly know Misty Copland .....even though have heard of her of course...has she ever performed in UK?

 

 

 

She has, with ABT at Sadlers Wells in 2011. I saw her in Duo Concertante, Company B and in a soloist role in Theme and Variations. I thought she was absolutely breathtaking. Couldn't take my eyes off her

[LinMM]

Catch her next time then!!

[FLOSS]

I have to admit that I have only seen Misty Copeland on a couple of occasions, most recently in Paris where she appeared as Princess Florine a role which I have always thought of as providing a good indication of a dancer's ability to perform classical choreography. I don't think that the choreography and period performance style required in the Ratmansky reconstruction of Sleeping Beauty reduces the effectiveness of the role in any way as a test of the dancer's ability to dance classical choreography,if anything it enhances it because it requires the dancer to reproduce Petipa's musicality in performance.

 

Perhaps I have not seen her in the right roles. I found myself wondering what all the fuss was about. I thought that she had a rather stiff back that she was accurate but far from interesting.She reminded me of someone, and for ages I could not think who she reminded me of, and then the name came to me. She reminded me of Wendy Ellis a dancer who I thought gave performances in which she reproduced the choreography accurately enough but was not that interesting.It gives me no pleasure to say this but I have to admit that after seeing Copeland I was left wondering how much of her reputation was attributable to her abilities as a dancer and how much was attributable to the workings of an effective publicity machine? But as I said perhaps I have seen her in the wrong repertory.

Edited March 13, 2017 by FLOSS

[assoluta]

It gives me no pleasure to say this but I have to admit that after seeing Copeland I was left wondering how much of her reputation was attributable to her abilities as a dancer and how much was attributable to the workings of an effective publicity machine?

 

I would go even further and ask how many dancers today owe their fame to their supreme artistry and not to an effective publicity machine, the entertaining value of the circus tricks they are known to show on stage, or the fact they become virtually identified with certain companies by being constantly featured in their productions, being perennial participants in countless gala, etc? To paraphrase FLOSS, it gives me no pleasure to say this but I have to admit that not many (more precisely, almost none).

[Mary]

I suspect 'twas ever thus assoluta.

 

But maybe then we should ask, next, not who is the most famous, but who ought to be?

[assoluta]

The only question I am personally concerned with is "who is or has a potential to become a great artist"?

 

I still believe there was a different ratio in the bygone years of those who were great artists to those who were "famous". Revive today Anna Pavlova, Olga Spessivtseva or Nina Vyroubova, and most of today's so called "critics" would hardly notice them at all or, worse, they would actually criticize them for some insignificant failings being totally blind to their unique artistry. I am not sure about today's public either. I think it became quite cynical overall, too cynical to crave for artistry.

[Jillykins]

I will never forget seeing Galina Ulanova perform Dying Swan in the Davis Theatre Croydon on the Bolshoi first visit late 1950. I pulled out my programme for Pavlova that I found in my mother in laws papers, she was famous because she toured everywhere and danced in many original situations. Maybe it is difficult to find similar dancers to name as 'famoua' dancers today. Cinema performances may help publicise today's dancers. Only name comes up from family and friends of today Acosta or Bussell.

[assoluta]

I pulled out my programme for Pavlova that I found in my mother in laws papers, she was famous because she toured everywhere and danced in many original situations.

 

One needs remembering that Anna Pavlova's fame preceded her touring the world. Touring for almost 40 years was essentially the only form ballet existed in the West between 1910 and 1950 and of all the touring ballerine only Pavlova achieved that legendary status. Today touring "Russian ballet" companies are still very common yet the artists involved in such projects are on the periphery of the world of ballet. Even Irina Kolesnikova, a supreme artist, better known in the West, especially here at UK, is completely ignored at home in Russia (it's true that the touring company of her husband itself is weak) but even here how many of us think of her equal in status to the principals of the Royal Ballet or étoiles of the Paris Opéra? (I do.)

[MAB]

I wouldn't describe a company whose former members have included Elena Glurjidze, Anastasia Kolegove and Alexander Zhembrovsky as inherently weak.  Having once worked as a sound engineer for a touring Russian company (not in UK) I am in awe of the dancers that work so very hard to give of their best under gruelling circumstances.