CeliB

DS did quite a few summer schools, partly due to my anxiety that he was a late starter (if I'm honest with myself in retrospect). Now that I look back I am not convinced any of them made much difference to his training, though he did have a lot of fun (to our bank account's severe detriment). When he was at home he really did absolutely nothing (this only changed once he went to Vaganova when he started keeping up with daily stretches and went to the gym or swam 2-3 times a week). In fact he just turned into the biggest sloth out- barely got off the couch except to go out on the razzle with his mates... DSs close friend at voc school never did a single summer school ever and graduated at 16 straight to a professional contract. I would say summer courses are of value if you are thinking of changing schools and want to check out a different one (however summer school teaching is often not like all round teaching so you have to be cautious) but otherwise they are really unnecessary if you are already training all year... Equally extra classes only if you have a specific concern (e.g. injury) and want a second opinion (and are certain the teacher giving the extra classes is top notch) or again thinking of leaving the school and want to explore alternatives. IMO if you/your child feels they need extra/different classes I would wonder whether the FT training is doing its job... Other complementary exercise (pilates, swimming) is always good though...

The AD at DSs school in the USA was completely involved in the day to day artistic decisions - oversaw classes frequently, was completely involved in the twice yearly performances, and from my memory had a face to face meeting to discuss progress with all the children at least once a year. Also was always available for a meeting with us every year when we went out to see the performance. When there was an AD at the school for a year or so who was less than ideal we very quickly sensed the school going off the rails- staff left or were sacked, their replacements weren't as good, the atmosphere just went down hill rapidly... At the Vaganova the Rector (who I guess is the equivalent of an AD here) is pretty much omnipotent - he has started teaching the boys graduating classes, he casts and directs every performance, he is always available to meet the children if they want to discuss anything and he gives a lot of advice to the students about where they should apply for contracts. He has a very close working relationship with all his teachers and I get the impression he knows every aspect of every single child in the academy. Of course this level of involvement and control is not so good if he doesn't like you, but certainly all DS's year were absolutely blessed by his constant guidance and attention. I don't think the man sleeps- he does the work of 3 people!

Hi Lisa, so far he's done French Dolls (Nutcracker), Chevalier at the ball (R&J- the livestreamed one), Bluebird, Peasant PDD (Giselle) and is about to rehearse 'James' friend' (Sylphide) (don't think this is a very complex one). Those are all the ones where he is named cast so I think count as soloist or demi soloist. He is also first cast for the corps in Anna Karenina (3 different roles) and has been corps in Etudes, Sleeping Beauty, Ivan the Terrible and Flames of Paris (in which he was delighted just to stand around holding a banner and get paid for minimal effort- just shows how much he's been working!) Pretty good for his first 6 months- he certainly can't complain about being under used!

The Dutch National Ballet Junior company is definitely a serious feeder to the main company and not a money making scheme. I have heard Ernst and Ted state that they will always look at recruiting from the junior company first and then then look outside the junior company if they still have gaps. Equally they have said they try and fill JC from the NBA before looking outside (so worth going there for US equivalent training if you are interested in the company).They sometimes offer a place in the junior company if a dancer is too young to join the main company but they want to retain them (this happened to DSs friend who joined JC - she was rising 17 as I recall). JC members are paid (not handsomely but certainly adequately to live- and I think they get help with accommodation too, at least DSs friend certainly did...). I think ABTII operates similarly and there are several other European companies that have a junior company (DS got offered a few after Lausanne which is why I know they exist but he didn't take them up so I don't know many of the details)- most pay a wage as far as I know. In Russia if students are not considered company ready for whatever reason (injury sometimes in the Russian dancers, or change of school, or perhaps like DS international students who arrive late) they just do an extra year but it isn't really considered a different course. So if this is what the above are offering I guess it makes more sense...

it must be so hard to see your son despondent, but at least he has the determination to keep going. You could perhaps comfort him with my son's training history - he didn't start vocational school until he was 14 and made it all the way through to professional contract. There's plenty of time for your son to develop and I do sometimes think my son gained a lot from having a completely normal life up until 14.......

That's so sad windover60. Glad to hear your daughter is recovering but what an awful experience. Though bear in mind terrible experiences are not limited to the UK- my son had an almost career ending experience in Amsterdam where he was categorically told he was barely good enough to dance with a small regional company (and this said scathingly as if this was somehow a fate worse than death) alongside a full character assassination. 18 months later (as many on this forum are aware) he was the only British graduate to ever be offered a place at the Bolshoi as well as the Mariinsky and is now having a fantastic experience at the Bolshoi with 3 major solos and several demi solo roles under his belt after only 6 months.... The temptation to go back to the Netherlands and give the director a piece of my mind is overwhelming (but DS would be mortified so I am restraining myself!) But I would say his main training in the USA was exemplary as far as pastoral care goes- there were a few hiccups in the ballet training due to several staff changes and I wish he'd gone to Vaganova sooner but I never felt anything other than genuine love, warmth and care from all his teachers at Kirov. It makes such a difference to feel your child is being cared for especially when you are too far away to parachute in and rescue them. Interestingly when DS was considering vocational training aged 13 I was warned by several UK based teachers not to send him to RB (edited to remove what they said about the school as it is complete hearsay, so I probs shouldn't repeat on open forum- sorry)

I'm not sure that's a valid comparison though - it's more like a school that recruits 6th formers from around the world especially those with academic prizes; dumps all their pupils who were taught by them at 7-11 and then at 18 publishes their high rate of Oxbridge entrants and claims it is their teaching that is responsible for the success rate. Obviously the last 2-3 years are important but I can't see how the first 5 years aren't equally or maybe more important as this is a really key learning age... The main issue here I suppose is whether the international students are displacing UK students whilst UK taxpayers are subsiding the training. As far as I know for example the international students at the Vaganova do not displace any Russian students they are taught in addition and all pay full fees (Russians do not pay any fees). If RB had a quota for home taught students it would feel much less galling; the success at 18 would be more obviously/easily linked to the teaching from age 11 and poor results easier to identify and perhaps do something about. As it is, the true success of RB lower school training is almost impossible to evaluate. Of course it may be that the rate of success at RB is as good as other comparable national schools but without transparent data you just can't tell. (Also I have to say RB consistently claims to award places on the basis of potential and should be perfectly aware that students in other countries may have been pushed more at an earlier age. It doesn't say too much for their picking power if at 16 they still can't recognise potential over more hours training.....)

I would say super flexible will always go down well. Heights of the girls in DS's year seem to be fairly variable. I know two of the girls well enough to have a sense of their height and I would think they were 5'5 or 5'6, (def shorter than me and I'm 5'7)... But at school level the variation is more 'allowed' (if that's the right word) than at company level. For example I know DS has said of certain boys in his cohort that they would have to look outside Russia for a job as they would be considered too short for a Russian company (even the one of them who is Russian and has been at Vaganova for all his training). But they haven't been assessed out- it's just accepted that they will be looking further afield for jobs....

My DS is dyslexic and dyscalculic. Dyslexia is often associated with exceptional spatial awareness and proprioception - and certainly in his case that's true. So when they get to the age that they learn routines by marking rather than purely verbal instruction, your son may find it easier to pick up and remember sequences. In my opinion I would be up front about his needs. If he is going to proceed further he WILL need some support- if this is not going to be forthcoming then I would imagine it will will make it so hard for him to navigate the environment he will stop enjoying it anyway. And one thing I have learned in supporting a child from recreational ballet all the way through to a professional job is that it has to be enjoyable. The work is quite hard enough even when you love it, without making it unnecessarily harder.... Good luck, let us know how you get on..

I have to say I can't stomach films where everyone is supposedly speaking their native language but with a hokey accent (and I've heard enough Russian now to know how bad the accents are!). It just makes it all seem faintly ridiculous....

I have used BT4D quite extensively in the past and not just because DS trained partly in the US. What I notice is that there is much less traffic than on the UK forum but personally I haven't found it unfriendly in the slightest. And I have a gmail email which mostly works (occasionally the site tells me I'm not allowed on but it always resets after a day or so). A big difference I found was when I asked for advice several years ago on the advisability of sending a child away to train at a relatively young age (DS at the time was 13). Many people who posted from the UK site seemed to think that we have perfectly good ballet schools here and if you don't get in at X age then you should just wait and try at Y age, as if not getting in at a UK school is pretty much a 'no' for your potential to make it professionally. In the US far more people were open to the idea of travelling, no matter how far, to get the right training fit. I found it surprising because I have always thought of the US as being quite insular. Maybe it's because it's so big and people accept the idea of travelling a long way anyway, or because there isn't an obvious 'national' ballet academy. To be fair often the travelling they are discussing is within the US but such a distance it is as far as UK to anywhere in Europe! In the end we went with sending DS which is a good thing as if he'd stayed here he would never have become a professional - the RB have consistently shown no interest at all yet he evidently is talented enough to be a professional dancer. Anyway I digress... Re training abroad I agree with Anna C I have heard good things about John Cranko, DS's experience in Amsterdam was terrible but perhaps person specific so I'm not sure its relevant and in general Dutch NBA has a good rep, Princess Grace seems to consistently turn out successful dancers. I presume Paris Opera is out of the picture as they don't take at that age? I know of schools in Hamburg, Dresden, Czech Rep, Budapest and Estonia but no knowledge of how they are viewed. I have to put a little hand up for Vaganova or Bolshoi in Russia. The training is astonishingly good (esp Vaganova at the moment under Tsiskaridze) and overall the fees are not extortionate (though of course as an international there are no reductions). But fees include all classes, accommodation and food as well as Russian classes. DS was happier in St Petersburg than he has ever been- training wise and socially. Edited to add- if possible (I think I have said this before on other threads) do an intensive BEFORE you decide to join the school as otherwise it is really difficult to see how it will suit. If DS had done an intensive at NBA I doubt he would have gone there (thus saving us a lot of money and pain). He did once do a summer school at RB and really didn't enjoy the training much so thereafter didn't even consider applying for upper school...

Not sure if boy technique is relevant but I know when DS was struggling with height in his jump his teacher made him do extra releves rather than extra plies. At one point he was doing a 100 a day in his room leaning against the wall.. and added about 2 feet to the height of his take off.. he realised through this that the jump takes off from feet and calves as much as thighs (I think previously he was trying to get all the spring from his thigh muscles). He now has calves like ....um.... a bolshoi dancer... ha ha. Edited to add - I realise your question was about landing but the other issue DS has noted is that the less height in the jump the faster he hits the floor and thus the less prepared he is to land lightly. Also maybe lots of releves will make her more accustomed to being on the balls of her feet instead of the flats....

Just about made it back - flying out through a blizzard (I honestly thought we'd be grounded but the Russians are clearly made of sterner stuff!). Delighted to say we got free tickets to watch the performance (just as well since last minute flight and visa costs require an extra mortgage!) - in the stalls about half way back so a plum position. I have to say I was so nervous I gripped DH's hand so hard I think he almost ended up with gangrene in his fingers...O's partner was Maria Vinogradova and he was thus very lucky to get extra tips from Vasiliev who came to watch rehearsals I honestly don't know enough to tell if it was a good performance but he didn't fall over or drop his partner and the audience clapped ha ha so that was me happy The director said he was happy with it ('very good' was the verdict which I understand is fairly decent praise) and so did his teacher so I guess that means it was ok. The performance overall was magnificently opulent- I couldn't quite believe I was really there (and now back in Blighty it honestly feels like I dreamed it). He has been dancing non stop since he got his proper contract (end Oct) - Etudes, as one of 3 couples contemporary piece for Sergei Filin's 'Rising Stars' gala, one of the chevaliers at the ball in Romeo and Juliet, French Dolls in Nutcracker, and Lilac pages and Bluebird in Sleeping Beauty plus currently in rehearsal for Anna Karenina and Ivan the Terrible (in the corps). And living in a shared flat (3 boys 2 girls) that would be a dead ringer for Withnail's except there are 2 Babushkas who nag them so much they actually do their washing up...and he isn't complaining as it's free... And overall he seems incredibly relaxed and happy. Nice pic from the curtain call... (and the costume is much nicer than the Mariinsky one I have to say)

This seems to be an acceptable hairstyle amongst DSs cohort - with length of the long hair being about mid neck e.g. an inch and a half to 2 inches above the shoulder... Of course that's Russia so perhaps conventions are different here...

He had a green doublet with a white fur collar and red undershirt, and one red and one green leg, and a (very heavy apparently) cloak. Mask but no wig. So he was one of the 4 chevaliers in the ball scene who was dancing with a sword at one point (and partnering Juliets friends in the silver dresses at another point). He called me as I was going into the cinema to say he was lolling around in his dressing room - it was quite surreal... I have to say I absolutely loved the production (quite apart from the thrill of seeing DS on stage). I had a long chat with DS afterwards and he was giving me the background on some of the dancers, I was quite touched at how thrilled he was that I liked it so much ...

DS dragged off to a class with his best friend (whose Mum did adult ballet and had no daughters). Didn't really 'click' until we moved area and he started Vaganova classes age 12 (the only teacher I could find locally with another boy in the class!). For some reason (a combination of the wonderful Judy Breen and the wonderful Aggripina Vaganova!) he just took off and flew at this point. I wouldn't quite say he's never looked back as it hasn't been an easy journey (which one ever is?!) but at the moment he's gainfully employed with both a contract and (finally after 3 months) some wages, so I guess that counts as success on some level.. No dancers in our family on either side, in fact no performers at all - mostly teachers, Drs, pilots (and one film producer!). It's been a huuuuuge learning curve ...

oh dear, don't hold me responsible for the ensuing howls of embarrassment....!!!

DD had a friend whose father would accompany her into Hollister wearing a head torch which I thought was really funny and no doubt she thought was mortifying! My DD started to boycott them when she heard about their staff policy so I have been spared too many sojourns into the black pit... Fortunately DS has gone full circle with warm ups and in his last trip home took himself off to Decathlon (we have a new one in Brighton Huzzah) for trackie bottoms of the most generic variety. On the other hand his actual dancewear (now he's out of uniform) includes a flesh tone unitard which to my eye is possibly the nastiest item of clothing I can imagine (though perhaps because I am imagining myself in it with a shudder).... Warm up booties have been replaced with fitflop suede slouch boots as they have a proper sole and really good support so are more versatile when he has to traipse around the theatre from studio to studio for different rehearsals (the Bolshoi certainly lives up to its name)..

In my experience the boys are equally fussy about attire (and what is the current fashion) as the girls. DS has had a huge variety of weird and wonderful practise wear even when he was in uniform (even with the uniform there were trends about just how high up that wide black elastic belt went, whether you ripped the arms off your t shirts, had round neck or V neck, wore a clown suit warm up effort, leg warmers or not etc). Now he's older he's even more fussy and it seems to be the dictates of 'showing the line' that are followed hence his recent birthday request for a veeery nasty (IMO) flesh coloured shorty unitard. Bleugh. Still, I guess at least he can get away with it figure wise (maybe part of my shudder is due to the concept of what it would look like on a less than Adonis-like physique haha).

Yes you are quite right- I asked DS when I saw it and he said it is to ensure the toes of the raised leg are placed in the right spot on the standing leg (I'm afraid I don't know enough about ballet to even know the relevant position but I'm sure those of you who do can work it out- or I could ask DS). I think it is a specifically Tsiskaridze aid, I haven't seen it used elsewhere (and I notice Nikolai's current class has them as well). DS was *slightly* smug that he didn't have to use them as his placement was considered up to standard...

My DS (currently dancing with the Bolshoi) would personally recommend both Madam Zina and Evgeny at the London Russian Ballet School. He trained Vaganova from aged 12 (in the UK, USA and St Petersburg).

21st January http://www.bolshoiballetincinema.com/ allows you to search out which cinemas are screening performances and when

In case anyone is going to see the Ratmansky Romeo and Juliet on Jan 21st I thought I would mention DS is cast as one of the chevaliers at the ball. Might be difficult to spot as they are masked but I do know he has a green doublet. He made us laugh complaining about how difficult it is to pirouette in the capes (made us think of the immortal line from Edna Mode in The Incredibles - 'No Capes!!!').. I am quite excited to see the Ratmansky version as it is hard to find any footage on YouTube and I have to confess R&J is one of the few ballets I have genuinely enjoyed (I'm not really a ballet person, shhh don't tell)..... DS says it is very challenging to dance...

You can look at youtube footage of Vaganova academy exam (and other) classes.... though tbh I think the best way to find out is to give the class a try and see if it suits you. I know as soon as my DS tried Russian training (after a few years of once a week RAD) his engagement with ballet changed from 'love' to 'live'. Can't really describe it any other way, and I'm not sure any explanation of how the positions and style are different would tell you if it suited you without experiencing it....

Having trained in Russia for the last 2 years I think DS would certainly highly recommend Evgeny at London Russian Ballet School. There are also Russian ballet teachers at danceworks which is more central if Clapham is difficult to get to...