CeliB

Hi there yes as noted.my DS trained.in washington from.14-18. He didn't want to stay in the US after graduation although he was offered ABT studio companyvia prix de Lausanne. Many of his peers in the US have gone to Europe (mikhailovsky, Dutch national, Danish royal, dresden to name but a few ). Others did go to US companies but not always the top ones (tho I think one of their alumni has just been named ABT studios new AD). I always had the impression that vaganova training made the students more suitable for Europe but I would emphasise that my knowledge is fairly limited as I'm not a ballet person... if your daughter is particularly taken with vaganova training I have to say I would advise going straight to the source (the academy in St petersburg) but if her desire is to work in the USA she might be better off with a school that has an associated company like San fransisco, SAB etc... Anyway feel free to pm me or message on the board if you think I could answer any other questions. I.might be a bit slow to answer as I'm on a campsite in France (hence writing on my phone so apols for the rubbish grammer and typos) All the best - it's a tough decision (and a expensive one!)

Dancia international has a shop in Brighton if that's not too hard for you to get to. Can't really comment on their pointe shoe fitting as I have a dancing boy (and hence didn't really bother with physical shops as their boys range is generally extremely limited) but maybe other forum members have used them?

Just wanted to add that although associates classes can be good fun and especially useful if your child is at a ballet school that doesn't have a history of prepping children for a career in ballet, or are small so not many other children are doing it seriously, they are absolutely NOT necessary (at least not enough to make you end up in a hair tearingly stressful financial or logistic situation to ensure they attend them). I don't want at all to put you off as I doubt they ever do any harm (hair tearing situation excepted) but please don't feel they are a necessary precursor to vocational school. My DS applied for RB JAs and then MAs (I think at around 11 and 12) and didn't get in either time. He didn't start serious (e.g. more than 30 min a week) ballet classes until he was 12, didn't go to vocational school until 14 and is now at 20 quite happily ensconced in the corps of a classical ballet company. I realise boys can leave it a little later but I don't think I am the only one whose DK made it to professional without following the 'conventional' JA/lower school/upper school route... Welcome to the roller coaster!

only in the local pub- he has been performing so relentlessly that he wouldn't have been able to go even if he'd had tickets- but he did get to see most of the Russia quarter as he was only in Act 1 of R&J - and he had his sister and brother with him (as well as lots of the Bolshoi soloists - it was quite an evening). DD says that there was hardly anyone left to take the curtain call after the performance (she and DS2 had free second row seats courtesy of their brother) as they had all rushed off to watch the footie! I think he was slightly relieved that Russia didn't win- would have been pretty tough to be watching a Russia England match - talk about divided loyalties!

and this is what the theatre memes dept came up with (sent to me by Oscar, who said that when Russia scored you could hear the roar on stage- edited to add - the roar of the crowd outside, rather than anyone actually ON stage hehe)

So sorry to hear this Primrose - its almost impossible to find any words to offer at such an unbearable outcome. My experience of the medical profession is that they find it near impossible to admit to any mistakes - it is a culture that is forced upon them during training...and so the mistakes go on. So, so sorry for your loss. x signed and verified.

I would say at this st(age) go with the flow and try everything on offer. They are still so young and won't really know what is their true passion so all you can do is try to keep as many doors open as is feasible (practically, financially and as far as your parental mental health will allow hehe!). Do ask the teacher BUT my caveat would be don't take their opinion as gospel unless you are certain of their credentials (for sending kids to higher level ballet training - if that is what she wants) and even then it may still be worth a go. Likewise don't see JAs as the final yes/no- if I had taken JA as the arbiter of talent spotting DS would never have got to where he is now... We were total newbies too - never a dancer on either side of the family before. We learned as DS learned and its been a real blast, with the highest of highs and lowest of lows (pretty much like parenting in general really). And this forum has been a lifeline so you are in the right place

yes i agree getting visas is a NIGHTMARE. And expensive. And they don't always give you all the requisite info until you get there, necessitating a wait in a long queue to use the computers to edit your application (and pay again for use of computer and reprinting of the visa)....make sure he takes extra cash! I don't know anything about folk dances but can ask DS...

Coppelia live stream is available on the Bolshoi media channel until 10 pm tonight (8 pm our time) If you go on to the Bolshoi website there is a little red theatre icon top right where you log in. You need to create an account but its really worth it (if you like the Bolshoi!) as you can then access lots of nice Bolshoi media in the future. Mods- not sure if I should post this in performances? Do move if you think its more useful info to put there ...

Ha ha well in that hilarious wig and moustache even his own mother almost didn't recognise him! But he came out at the very beginning and warmed up just behind the presenter backstage for our benefit ( actually I did spot him by his legs and feet too!). Once the mazurka started to be honest they were all flying around so fast it was impossible to see anyone in particular. I did enjoy the whole performance anyway though ...and it was nice to get his ongoing text updates from the dressing room as it went on 😊

I think C) may not always be true. My DS had a horrific time at one school; others at his various schools who were much NOT the favoured ones are having now successful careers at excellent companies - I don't think he at least will ever forget the impact of the treatment he got and if he is ever in a position of authority over younger dancers I can't imagine he would treat them with anything other than care and compassion... I agree with a) and b) though. I am sooo tempted to write to the director who told DS he would be lucky to get a job at a third rate regional company because he was such a bad dancer (and a horrible person besides) and rub his nose in DSs contract with the Bolshoi (only 2 years later) but I have desisted because, as you say, it's a small world. One bit of advice I have over and above what others have said is to consider whether it is worth her seeing a counsellor outside school just maybe for a few sessions so she can explore why she is so desperate to stay in a ghastly situation, or whether she can find some way to develop more resilience, anything that might help really. I know it's a different scenario but a couple of well timed sessions for my DS were pivotal in his decision to move on to a better place...

Hello balletbean, it depends when in July - the companies close for the summer around the end of the third week. Have they been offered a specific company/performance or is it up to them to ask what they want to see? A lot of the ballets would be sold out already I think so they would need to decide quite soon... It should pretty easy to find out on line what is on the repertoire for the time they are there as most of the companies you can look up and then translate the site into English. I think it would depends really on what is being offered to them... Re ballet in St P the Mariinsky is really the top company in the city although the Mikhailovsky are also a very good company. In Moscow Bolshoi is of course the most famous but the Stanislavsky is also very good. The Bolshoi company season finishes with Ratmansky's Romeo and Juliet which is a great ballet for those who aren't particularly well versed in ballet as the music is great and of course everyone knows the story.... The Bolshoi historic stage is VERY impressive I have to say... it would be a pretty unforgettable experience of they could get to see the company as they are really amazing. As for do's and don'ts I can't think of many really. It's a bit like ballet here- some people dress up but others don't so the dress code isn't something to worry about.. I guess the only don't I can think of is don't buy a drink in the bar in the interval the prices are EYE WATERING!!!!! Don't expect anyone to speak any English (though I assume they will have a local guide?). If he has an iPhone the text translation app is really useful (though you sometimes get rather crazy results it can save your life in restaurants!). (By the way if they have the chance in St P there is a fantastic and quite famous sweet shop Elizeevsky on Nevsky Prospekt (not far from the Vaganova Academy) which is worth a look- it's all art deco style and they have amazing sweets and chocolate sculptures and lots of weirdly flavoured Russian tea (and you can have coffee and cake there too) and the outside of the building is really beautiful... ) If there's anything else specific do ask - I can ask DS if I don't know...

In case anyone is going to see this anyway- watch out for DS dancing the Mazurka. The cast list on the Bolshoi website doesn't have him down but he's def performing (has just signed a form to allow him to get some extra cash because its being filmed - hurrah!) Maybe should post this in another forum but I thought this is the forum most people know us/him from... Mods feel free to move if you think appropriate...

ah yes of course- i was thinking of schools where students are in school accommodation (where I presume they do have some kind of curfew) so yes of course somewhere where they live out would be different.. I guess tho' if you are an international student in a foreign city your parents may be quite glad to know you are in a dorm with a Babushka to check that you made it home at night!

London russian is probably a good half way house now that they have a proper full time voc course (that wasn't available when my DS was 14 which is why he ended up in washington). They have good links with the bolshoi (school and company) and when DS was last home he did some.classes there and said it was exactly the same as company class (at the bolshoi). By the way I don't think the freedom the students are allowed in russia is greatly different to other places. DS found it no more restrictive than USA and if you are in moscow or st P you are right in the heart of the city so don't have to wrestle with transport much They do have a curfew in the dorms but it's quite reasonable. ..

That is interesting and thanks for sharing. I just showed DS (who is home for a flying visit) the blog from Moscow and he laughed and said yes all exactly what he would expect and almost exactly what he experienced (especially the Russian students never telling him what was going on!) and why was she even surprised by this?! and her room was twice the size of his in Vaganova! (Although he did have a kitchen and bathroom between 3 rooms (6 students) and all meals provided so you only had to cook if you wanted extra or something different). He did dance a lot more but he was cast in a LOT of performances and he was evidently liked by his teachers, which of course makes a big difference. He did also say he thinks Vaganova integrates the international students a bit better and definitely everyone dances at least 5 or 6 hours a day even if they aren't cast in any performances, so that isn't the same, but I think in the end it is about expectation and what you are prepared to tolerate. He took it all in his stride, she evidently couldn't (I'm not blaming her at all - DS is VERY resilient - I know I would NEVER have coped with something like that....). But I think helpful to know (if you were thinking of Russia) a second person corroborating the factual bit of her experience...Forewarned is forearmed and all that...

I guess maybe then someone already in a company would be considered urgent? Or maybe it's just a country specific approach...

Oh dear stardancer I have only just caught up with this thread and it sounds as if you have had a dreadful time. I hope your DDs recovery is progressing well. I thought it might be worth noting re Hogletts post my DS recently had his knee assessed as he has had on and off knee pain for a few months. Luckily for him the Bolshoi has a clinic where he went and got an immediate MRI which identified a small tear in the cartilage - he was advised this will repair itself fairly quickly given a bit of rest and following use of a knee brace in rehearsal so far it hasn't given him any more trouble. I mention it because he said what he had been concerned about was the possibility of a meniscus tear which he said would mean immediate surgical repair (and he is very much NOT keen on being off work at all in this crucial first year). I know nothing about dancing or dance related injury so can only assume his assumption comes from knowledge of what happens at the Bolshoi or amongst dancers he has asked. Just thought this little snippet would be of interest. Good luck to both your DDs for a speedy resolution x

One thing I would add if you ever need to justify ballet to your more sceptical friends is that many international level athletes (eg Olympic swimmers and divers) take ballet as a complementary activity as it creates such extraordinary core strength. There are several stories of international sports teams in things like rugby and football doing a swap with a ballet company to try out each others training regimes, and generally the ballet dancers come out as fitter and stronger. So if you didn't want to admit to having fallen in love with the beauty and sparkle you could just say you are taking classes to improve your balance, flexibility, strength and stamina (much like taking extra exercise classes or doing gym work). My daughter who is 19 has been doing ballet since age 3. She gave up the girly pink at around age 7 (I think she was the only girls in her class dressed in black hehe and was the only girl in her class at school wearing boxer shorts instead of pants! the influence of an older brother... ). She is totally NOT a girly girl and is now off to college to study medicine but still lists ballet as greatest love - had she been blessed with a ballet body this would have been her absolute dream job. I suggest you do a bit of research and find a class that is fairly relaxed about things like what to wear - teachers can vary SUCH a lot. I have come across really formal teachers who even with their 3 year olds insist on perfect RAD uniform and others (like DSs first teacher) who are happy to have a bunch of unruly little boys falling about and doing cartwheels occasionally, or girls who wear any old outfit and stick their hair into bunches or whatever. You might it a bit easier to be in a less formal class at least at the beginning? If you want some recommendations why not tell the forum which area you are in - people can often suggest good teachers/classes. And good luck- I hope you do at least give it a go. and here's one of my favourite little snippets that shows just how amazing ballet dancers can be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utWJcsk0cNA

Yes we did this many times for SIS abroad. As Angel.says they are not asking the GP to guarantee the person wont ever get an injury just that they have no current or past medical history that would preclude them taking part. If you want I can see if I can dig out a letter and tell you the exact wording...

It seems a bit of an odd situation to me. Either you trust your teacher and know they have good reasons to advise you against auditioning, in which case don't audition, or you don't trust them.in which case surely you should be looking for another teacher. Perhaps that's what this person IS doing by auditioning against the teachers wishes it's hard to know from this snippet of info... of course the last minute audition is different- that's more logistics But deliberately doing what your teacher has advised you not to suggests to me a teacher student relationship which shouldn't really continue...

I think I have mentioned this before on other thread related to stress but don't underestimate the positive benefit to your DS of offloading all his complaints, fears, doubts etc onto you and thereby being able to let them go. Hence the roller coaster effect. My daughter does this to me on a biannual basis (she's quite a calm person in general) and has done since the age of about 7 or 8 (she's now 19). It took me a while to catch on - in the early years I spent so many nights awake and in a complete panic that her entire life was terrible and how could I not have realised only to have her get up next morning completely chirpy and not mention a single worry for another 6 months. Now even she says quite matter of factly 'I think I'm due another meltdown Mum I haven't had one in quite a while'... I also remember my younger brother driving my mum mad when he was on his university exchange year in California, skyping her every few weeks with a litany of how ghastly it was (no friends, mad landlady, couldn't do any of the work, hated the states, run out of money etc). Since coming home he has always said it was the best time he's ever had, he made fabulous friends and he got the equivalent of a first for the academic year. I suppose what i'm trying to say is that sometimes kids use parents like their 'Dorian Gray' to offload all the stress or explore in some ways the things they fear but which may never come to pass. It doesn't surprise me at all that he can tell you one day how awful/stressful it is and the next day say he had the best time ever- the one enables the other (if that makes sense). Of course this is not always true I'm not trying to downplay your DS's concerns or troubles and it is always a matter of degree. My DS also found boarding very hard especially the lack of space and VERY difficult room mates. You will be the best judge of whether this is a deal breaking amount of stress or a need to offload which enables him to then carry on. Good luck, it is hard...

I did a quick scan of the winners since 2011 who chose RB as an apprentice - only 1 (David Yudes) stayed with the company beyond the apprentice year (and every year except 2012 I think had one person who chose RB as an apprentice - so that's an uptake rate of only one in 5). Who knows whether that is their choice or whether they didn't get a contract offer, but if I were a winner with only the statistics available to me to support my choice it wouldn't be very encouraging....

As far as I am aware once a school/company has offered a prize they are duty bound to accept someone who chooses them. I think for schools they generally keep them til graduation but for companies it's interesting to see thereafter they then get further employment in the company beyond the apprentice year - not necessarily because of their quality as a dancer but whether they fit what the company wants I suppose (and presumably whether the dancer actually likes the company having spent a year there- no doubt it works both ways!).

I think it's also helpful for her to know how many stories there are on this forum of DKS who have had refusals followed by acceptances. I agree early refusals can be helpful in making them more resilient- when my DD was a diver she knew a number of kids who won gold medal after gold medal in novice comps for several years then the minute they moved to the next level and stopped coming first all the time they gave up as they couldn't cope with being less than first. .. I always like to tell people on this forum my son was turned down for royal associates on multiple occasions- fast forward 6 years and he has a contract at one of the world's best ballet companies and is the happiest I've ever seen him. So associate classes are not a perfect predictor of ability or future success!!!