CeliB

thank you Nana Lily for the link- I will show it to my son (the non dancer) who struggles far more with bullying and self esteem at ordinary state school than DS ever has at vocational school. I think Pictures is completely right- all schools have bullying incidents, it's how they manage them that is important. And, dare I say it, how the parents react - I recall one child at DDs primary school who was accused (quite rightly) of bullying by several different children at different times, and each time the parents simply told the teachers they were being racist and refused to address it. Funnily enough tho' I think DS is absolutely NOT a type A personality- not a single one of the traits above match him except for being self critical about his dancing (but never in a terribly stressed way). He is completely unfussed by anyone else's success, measures his own achievements against himself and no-one else, is totally chilled about time keeping and tasks/ lists (academically he always did the bare minimum) and almost NEVER gets angry. I wonder sometimes how he has managed to get so far given he is so laid back!

Just been watching DSs vaganova graduation exams and notice he is the only left turner in his class. Was quite disconcerting watching them in the variation groups of only 2 or 3 with DS turning left and 2 others turning right! But he was always allowed to turn to his left. Very interesting also is that the Russian ballet exams contain quite a few centre variations where each student does a slightly different variation (to show their strengths)... I asked DS about being a left turner and he said its a bit like being left handed- less common but not exactly a total rarity. And he says they would re choreograph any solo for the individual's turning preference....as you say though for the corps I guess you just have to manage...

ok thanks so much, at least i can plan now!!

HI all, does anyone know which day you are supposed to arrive for the Covent Garden summer school? A friend of DS from the USA is attending and staying with us this weekend, she seems to have told DS she needs to arrive on Monday but my memory is that usually you arrive Sunday. As DS is getting ready to go to Benicassim and flies on Tues it would logistically be better if he took her up on Sunday... Anyone have insider info? The website just says the timing will be sent in the info packs... I know it would be logical (before anyone points this out) just ti ask her, but we are talking teenage communication - I could be waiting until I have grey hair to get the answer. And DS has several Monday appointments that need to be changed today if he's going to London Mon... Many thanks!

I agree along for the ride mum about the problem of stats- but equally many private schools, who often market themselves on being better academically, select only academically able pupils and those who have difficulty are turfed out, so the state school in general will have a far higher proportion of children with learning difficulties, non english speaking, behavioural problems etc etc. Also a close friend who worked at a very prestigious private school in Sussex tells some pretty awful stories about the way exam results are manipulated at private schools in order to get the best outcome. So I suppose the point I was making was that you would expect most private schools to have significantly better results. But that's a digression. In relation to Bedes specifically I didn't get the impression (either from being shown round the school by Mary Goodhew or from friends whose children have gone there) that this is their practise. And in fact I respect them far more that they have a good reputation for turning around children with problem behaviour. I don't think I would have any probs (apart from lack of cash!!) sending a child there on that score. But I still personally feel the ballet faculty is too small. But then I was looking for a boy so it's much different....

we have commonly had to get a medical certificate specifying lack of injury etc. GP charges flat 80 quid... it depends on what the GP is expected to be signing for as to whether they feel an appointment is required and thus charge more...

LinMM why don't you get in touch with DS- he will be there in Nov. He might even be able to get you in to see a class (he managed to get my family and Judy to watch class) - at very least he can give you a tour of the academy... I'll ask him... Wrt Tsisk the students adore him and are terrified of him pretty much in equal measures! Next year he is going to teach the level 8 Russian boys class (DSs class) the first time he has taught a full class (as opposed to doing rehearsals and dropping in unannounced to classes to terrify the assembled students). DS is in raptures!.

Oh, well maybe our local state school is unusual then, because ours is 94% (though I agree there's not a lot in it). When DS first started doing associates Mary Goodhew had only just taken on the role of principal. She was there for about a year at least, then Elaine Holland took over, now there's a new person, so I guess I was thinking that if you include Mary's predecessor that's 4 principals since DS was 13. Though actually he's about to turn 19 so that's 6 years. Even so I think that's a lot when you compare it to the longevity of the big schools- enough for a child starting in yr 7 and finishing in yr 13 to have lived through a fair amount of regime change.....

DS did some associate classes at Legat a fair time ago (5 years?) and I have always kept a slight interest in what's going on there. DS was asked to audition there for a scholarship but he was only just starting to take ballet seriously so it wasn't the right time for us/him. I think the school itself has astounding facilities and I understand their pastoral care is good. Academically they don't do all so well for a fee paying school (compared go our local state school for example) BUT they have a LOT of children doing national level sports and arts so its perhaps not surprising... My comment on it as a training place for dancers is that there is a pretty high turnover of principals (I think this latest makes 4 in 5 years?), which means over the course of a child's training the style and emphasis of the teaching may vary quite considerably. Secondly it is pretty small, so it depends a bit on the character of your child but I think its much harder to push to excel when you are in a small cohort - certainly having looked at how DS has thrived being amongst a large number of exceptional dancers compared to a smaller institution it wouldn't have been the right fit for him. I know YDA is small and has excellent results, so its a bit of a generalisation perhaps, but I do think its a consideration....

......and you can spot DS at 1:18 in the graduation performance - the only non Russian student with a featured part (e.g. not in the corps). He's in the Polish dance and Bolero too but harder to see as they all move so fast! You can spot him at the graduation ceremony too (at 15:50 he's behind and to the right of the girl in the red dress and at 48:47 in the ball next to his partner in the white). He said the last 2 weeks have been absolutely the best of his entire life....

I have mentioned before that DS was told at 14 that he needed to go to vocational school pretty much immediately if he was going to achieve his full potential. The teacher who assessed him said in his opinion if DS was going to wait until later he would still have the opportunity of a career in ballet but it wouldn't be at the 'highest level'. I know at 18 DS feels he isn't quite yet as technically polished as those who have been in vocational school since 11 (although the gap now is pretty narrow) and certainly feels he wouldn't be where he is now if he had waited until 16. Having seen the hours he has put in and what he has achieved I think I agree with him- couldn't have done it locally... But I think your question is very hard to answer as it depends so much on the individual dancer, how they want to train, what they are aiming for, the needs (and capacity both financially and in time) of the rest of their family, what local classes are available and so on. So its a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question...hence I offer up our experience as just one of many....

sorry computer playing up so ended up with weird double post..

other ballet related film DS really enjoyed (and good for the boys) is Mao's Last Dancer. He also likes DVDs of ballets recorded with principals who you wouldn't be able to see now (rather than contemporary performances). Actually DS thought Black Swan was hilarious and quite enjoyed it. Personally I'm not sure Red Shoes is any less ridiculously hysterical, it just has less sex and gore (and that's more a sign of the time it was made rather than any particular inherent virtue!!).... and I also think the not so subliminal message of Red Shoes is far nastier than Black Swan- the central character is punished (by death no less) for daring to believe her career was as important as her husband's. Who was a complete selfish git. But clearly had 'God' on his side. Much like the character of the little girl in the story of the Red Shoes who was viciously punished for daring to want to wear something pretty. At least in Black Swan there is a human cause (overbearing mother, bullying director and excessively perfectionist central character) and there was no sense that she brought it all on herself because of some fundamental moral failing. Clearly the ending was over the top but it felt much more about human mental illness than a sermon on how women should stay in their place or else...

From my experience what you can't train is 1. Body shape. It is what it is. My DD has been doing ballet since age 3, would have loved to be a dancer, at 17 still does ballet and 2 different modern dance classes, and doesn't have (and never has had) the slightest hope of being a ballerina. She is completely gorgeous but has inherited her Welsh family's body type. 2. The desire to be a dancer. My Ds2 has exactly the same physique and musicality as DS1, did 2 years of ballet with the same teacher who started DS1 on the pathway to vocational student, but then gave up, as he felt it didn't suit him. I also felt the same, he doesn't have the temperament or application. But the teacher always said she thought his body was slightly more suited to classical ballet than DS1 so it wasn't ability that stopped him. 3. The 'it factor'. This probably less of a deal breaker, and perhaps more controversial. Eg there are many who succeed who don't have that stand out sparkle and some who do that fall by the wayside for other reasons, and some who may start without it but grow into it as a development of their artistry as they mature (if that makes sense). So by itself it isn't a guarantee of success. But it does seem exist as a kind of personal attribute and I'm not convinced it can be taught (at least not in the same way technique can). But maybe others would disagree? And in reference to your daughter I would say 8 is very young. My youngest is 8 and I have trouble getting her to focus for more than 5 minutes at a time on anything. At the same age my older daughter was competing nationally as a high board diver, but her character is just completely different. As long as your DD likes the ballet classes and wants to continue that's probably as much as you can hope for!!

Wonderful news and many congratulations. I hope the audition process goes well- is your DD hoping to stay in Russia or looking elsewhere in Europe?

Really lovely news. It can be hard for DC's to keep going in the face of rejection so its fabulous to have stories like this that we can share with them.

Actually Im not sure I agree with the idea that being held back a year is detrimental. Both my boys and one of my girls are dyslexic, DS1 is the youngest in his school year (august 18) and would have massively gained from being kept back a year. I am sure DS1 went through a developmental shift at 15 (he went from being as straight D/E student to straight As and now has a reading speed the same as DD1 who got 11A stars at GCSE), and DS2 looks to be following a similar pattern. It would have helped him hugely if this shift had occurred in school year 9 instead of year 10.... One of my close friends is from the Netherlands where it is standard practise to hold children back a year if they are not coping. Far from destroying their social position she remembers from her childhood that those who are held back are looked up to by the children in the year below, partly because they are older and partly because they have already done the work for that year so are seen to be more able and experienced. So they actually gain in social standing....

He has lessons in Russian although he claims they aren't very good. He got the hang of the Cyrillic script after a few weeks. Now, after 2 months, he says he is able to understand a fair amount and he can now converse a bit, enough to feel he can have some sort of basic conversation. For example whilst I was skyping him last night one off the babushkas came and told him something along the lines of 'it's really late shouldn't you be in bed' and he responded 'yes yes just give me 20 minutes' or words to that effect. He definitely found the first month really tough (he's quite a sociable chap) but says he feels much more integrated now so can clearly converse on a basic level. There's nothing like total immersion- kill or cure I think!

thank you PDQ - I had never found that FB site before (there are several unofficial sites for the vaganova so its easy to get confused). Yes DS is in the pic with Alexey Ilyin's class- the furthest on the right, looking very sweaty and very happy! https://www.facebook.com/academyvaganova

Oh, I don't know if it is- which facebook page? I can't find it... btw just to correct an earlier post DS says the classes are mixed for PDD, character and acting, and it just happens that he is in an all Russian class for classical ballet. However he also says all but one of his class got a 5/5 (one got 4) and in the other class no-one got a 5. And the reason he was so made up is that it is almost unknown for an international student to be given a grade (because they arent 'proper' members of the school) so he wasn't expecting it... The head of the jury told him he had a 5 and very well done (all in Russian) and he nearly passed out from shock and delight...

Yes DS is in the international training program - I think there is only one route in for foreign students. But DS has been placed in an all Russian boys class with the boys who have all been there since age 10/11 and not with the other class which contains the international students (as well as a few Russian students). Although his PDD class is with international students. In characteristic DS style he has no idea of the significance of this placing or in fact of anything that goes on around him....But the Russian boys (who have welcomed him into their fold and tell him he is 'one of them') tell him he is getting an unusual amount of personal attention from Tsidzeriske and when he received positive feedback from one of the guest teachers this also left the Russian boys open mouthed as they say they have never ever heard this teacher give a compliment before. Who knows if this is just random or meaningful. He is super happy and that's all that matters at the moment....

Just wanted to share that after only 2 months at the Vaganova in St Petersburg, DS has just been awarded the highest grade possible (5/5) in his classical ballet exam. Most of his class also achieved this grade, This is apparently almost unheard of and Tsiskaridze is delighted with them. After the terrible time DS had in Amsterdam this is just the boost he needs. He also says he has never felt as happy dancing as he does at the Academy. I had to share the news with people who will understand how relieved and overjoyed I am to hear this!!! And to thank you for all your kind words of support earlier in the year. Celi x

I thought I would mention DS is going to Prague masterclass for both weeks and will be staying with DH (who is/will be filming in and around Prague and thus has a flat there until November). I'm sure DH would be happy to be a local emergency contact if anyone's DK is going and will be there on their own, so do PM me if you would like details...

sorry- another thought (and relates to an earlier post in the thread) I do think its a really good idea to do summer school at the school you are interested in. DS did a summer school at Kirov before being offered the scholarship and was pretty happy there. He did a summer at Covent Garden when he was 15 and it confirmed for him he would never want to go to RBS for training. But he didn't do a summer school at the national ballet academy in Amsterdam and I wish he had done, as when he went he loathed it - not just the teaching, but the whole atmosphere of the pre pro program. It's such a personal thing, you have to get a sense of the 'fit' between student and school style and you just can't tell that from the outside....

Four years ago when DS was offered a full scholarship to a vocational school abroad I asked for opinions on this and on the USA equivalent board. My experience then was that UK parents seemed generally much more open to the idea of training abroad than parents in the USA (all of who seemed to think that if you lived in the UK surely you would go to RBS and why consider anything else). So I am surprised that the responses to your question have been more conservative than when I asked (probably just a different sample of responders!)... I think the main question is WHY you would be considering training abroad and what you think it will give you (your DD) that you couldn't get from a school in the UK. In our case it was very clear- DS wanted Vaganova training. And by and large it has worked out positively. I would note however 1. it has, overall, I think been much more expensive - even with scholarships costs of travel are prodigious unless you never go to visit, and that's really hard. I'm sure this is far worse for schools in the USA than in Europe but even so - eg we are now travelling back and forth to Russia and it's £360 per person per trip just for the flight... 2. you will see less of your child if they are abroad. no question. there are enormous gains to be had (and not just for your child, as I have explained in other threads), but it is pretty tough to get used to at the beginning. DS didn't start seriously training until he was 14 so we didn't have to wrestle with sending him away at a much younger age (though as I recall this is the case for you too? DS is young in the school year so went away at the beginning of year 10, 2 weeks after his 14th birthday). We absolutely don't regret letting DS go, but I think I would have considered the decision more carefully had there been feasible vocational training in the UK in the style he wished to study. Hope this helps