Harwel

Interesting reading this thread, I would not hesitate to remove my child from an unhealthy situation straight away. It is not required as your DS is already getting full time training that they love. I removed my DS from an associate scheme immediately he told me he wasn’t happy. He’d just spent a lovely time in the company’s nutcracker season but when we started back in the following term, I picked him up from school to take him to training. We were half way there and he told me he did not want to go - I told him that if I withdrew him there was no going back and as long as I could inform the school straight away we could go straight home - we got to the next motorway junction and I double checked and he was adamant he wanted to stop it. That was that. He never regretted the decision and carried on into vocational training at 14. It just was not right for him. Mental health THE most important thing.

There is almost no comparison. I was training 35 years ago and it’s a different world now. The standard is phenomenal.

I have just been drawn down the rabbit hole of this thread - I rarely visit here anymore since my DS left the ballet world (I thank God everyday for that day!). I feel the anxiety of the new parents just entering this world who want to try to explain everything, find a reason for everything, justify everything. I think you are just finding out that NOTHING about the ballet world has anything to do about a level playing field (I genuinely don’t think anything in this world does). I strongly suggest you read some of the threads about the beautiful dancers who have gone through vocational school systems and come out utterly broken. There are some on here, there are some on Instagram there are some on YouTube. I truly wish all the beautiful young hopeful dancers get what they want and live a life of roses and sunshine - unfortunately this will not happen. Many who have just got into vocational school will never make it to senior school and even fewer will make it a career. Some who were unsuccessful at gaining a place this year will actually do better by being nurtured at home and may find success later. What is this training for? To get a job in a ballet company? Honestly, save your energy, stop comparing, stop blaming uneven playing fields, north south divides (never heard anything so nutty - can’t think a company AD gives a flying monkeys where someone is from given all the international hires). Focus on your child’s needs, make them mentally strong, teach them to understand their worth in this world away from ballet. If a ballet career is for them it will happen. if not, be grateful they will be super successful elsewhere. The standards are incredibly high, and increasing every year. No one gets a place if they are not incredibly gifted physically. The training is intense and only a tiny minority can take it (a tiny % of those accepted at year 7) classical dancers are elite athletes that are born for the role. There is no level of training given by any 3rd party that will confer enough talent, dedication, physical attributes to a child that has not been born with those attributes. If a child with those attributes does not get the level of training to bring it out then unfortunately a dance career is not their destiny. However, that training does not have to happen to gain a year 7 place. Enjoy your child’s successes, help them recognise the talent and dedication of others. It seems to me the biggest challenge to our younger generation is mental health - make them mentally strong to face life in general. Ballet will be a footnote in most of our children’s lives.

Gosh, I couldn’t agree more! I’m always amazed she gets away with it.

If your DD wants to do A’levels with full time musical theatre training then it will be Tring - but only internal scholarships for that course (MDS - which my DS had for 6th form only given to the dancers course). The Hammond and Arts Ed. I am not familiar with The Hammond only Tring and Arts Ed. Both Tring and Arts Ed offer a 2 year course with the intention you would go on to further study at degree level (although there is occasionally someone who goes straight into the industry - my DS friend went straight into Hamilton from Tring 6th form musical theatre course). Arts Ed do not have boarding facilities like Tring do, it would be house share, home stay/host family etc. I believe at Arts it’s 2 A’levels and a BTECH to bring it to the equivalent of 3 A’levels. (I guess a very bright child could get an extra A’level in but I would imagine the timing would be tight) My younger DS is currently at Emil Dale on their Level 3 extended diploma musical theatre course. He will come out with the equivalent of 3 A’levels. The standard of all 3 MT subjects is very high. Their transition stats into degree courses is phenomenal. Kids go onto train at Arts Ed, Mountview, GSA, Urdang, Bird some go on to do straight acting too. Our experience of the college is fantastic, I can’t rate them high enough - caring, thoughtful, have been amazing through the pandemic and fabulous teaching. Accommodation for BTECH is with a host family which EDA set up for you based on a questionnaire. My DS loves his host family. Fees are very reasonable as they get part of the course funded by the government. there are of course many fabulous training centres and many different ways to skin a cat. Just keep your mind open to the possibilities and do what feels right for your child, everyone has their own experience and only you know what environment your child will thrive in. it’s a big decision but an exciting journey. Have fun with it all.

This is a really important topic @cotes du rhone !. You are not the first ballet mum and you won’t be the last, to accept something from a vocational school that you would never accept anywhere else. I think as ballet parents, we become so invested in our child’s dreams that it seems too harsh to stop them at the sign of trouble. My DS was in 6:2 after one hip surgery and waiting for another. He returned home from vocational school in a complete state at the Easter break, I was so shocked to see him so broken (he even used those words to me to describe himself) I said ok ‘I am pulling you out of school’ and got the phone - his absolute horror that I would do that made him beg me not to do it - so I didn’t! We spent the whole Easter break forming a plan to help him be strong enough to see all the opportunities he had worked so hard for just slip away. He was adamant he needed to be surrounded by his friends. long story short, he persuaded his school to let him do 2 A’levels in a year for his 3rd year. He used 6:3 to get the love of just dancing back, explore acting, get involved in all aspects of school management that the teachers would allow, took part in the graduating years performance around the country as a very strong partner and loved performing for the last time. He went to Germany to film for a TV series. And performed in Sweden with school. With the A’level business he was doing, the school had a trip to a top London building surveyors firm. He did his research on the company and impressed them on the day. He was offered work experience then offered a degree apprenticeship (they only made 1 offer for project management apprenticeship - which was the only thing he wanted to do). They were impressed by his work ethic, his determination , his maturity and his ability to get on with people. He has been with the firm for approximately 18 months, is almost through his apprenticeship phase. He achieved 1 pay rise, 2 bonuses and has been told they have to keep reminding themselves he’s only 20. He loves his job! He loves being financially independent. He also misses aspects of performing but not the terrible treatment (you know, the always being made to feel you’re not good enough, always replaceable, you take a day off for injury and someone else gets your role, your face doesn’t fit with the dance director ......). He has close ties with his vocational school friends, shares a flat with one, lives close to many more and is loving life. His dance training made him the very impressive young man he is today, it was hard, but he says he would never not have done it. I love the fact he is such a well rounded, interesting person. Sometimes I wish he had not had to have such a challenging time (but hey, he was always safe, loved and with a strong support network). I am sure your daughter will be amazing in her next career!

Have you considered Lausanne in Switzerland?

The training looks amazing and the students are very classical and get fantastic classical jobs. My sons friend (they were at Tring together) finished 2 years there after 6th form at Tring and has become the most gorgeous dancer (always very gifted - but ESB have turned him into an absolutely beautiful classical dancer) He has a classical contract in Europe but I can remember where. I can’t comment on the pastoral side as have no idea.

Oh I love the story I heard about the Chuckers origins. I was told that it originated in Australia where theatre performers were paid in chickens. They would look out into the audiences and gauge its size to estimate how many chickens they would get. Good luck, many chickens - please let that be true!

oh that’s interesting - I would imagine there was some backlash as it seemed rather underhand to me. I think the biggest area of confusion is around funding which is not helped when schools are not transparent. to the OP. I would also strongly consider student support services. Finances are important to make sure it’s viable in the first place but emotional support for students living away from home, probably the the first time ever in a highly competitive field is of vital importance. There have been far too many cases of young adults not getting the support they need and in time. Ask as many questions as you can about this area - parents can get tied up with wanting their children to follow their dreams and are so grateful for an offer/any offer and this is the time parents need to be parents. We MUST look at the pitfalls in a critical and detached way. Some MT schools take in huge numbers in one year group. They split them into smaller groups but have they increased the numbers of student support staff? Do the colleges take note of students that are missing and follow up? Some colleges have 2 streams - 1 is the one they believe will make it, the other is funding the college. Take off any rose coloured goggles - the industry is overrun with talent and the colleges are businesses - parents have to be the voice of reason in all of this. it is wonderful for our DC to follow their dreams but mental health issues are rife in the performing arts world and they need great care and attention. Look into MTA and the guidelines the principle has put in place. Hopefully more and more colleges are following these guidelines.

yes, that’s correct. No top up, no 3rd term. They do offer some students bursaries to cover the top up costs but not everyone of course. if you are looking at more MT, triple threat training also look into Guildford School of Acting at university of Surrey - amazing course in MT, degree funding, many industry professionals and 30-40 contact hours a week. Also Central School of Speech and drama do a fantastic MT course.

Please be careful as some colleges, though their courses are funded by degree loans also have top up fees. Urdang is one such college. The degree loan covers 2 terms, if the student wishes to do the 3rd term (show term) there is a top up to bring it in line with the same cost as the diploma students. This is not clear on the website - in fact I’m not sure it’s mentioned at all. There are some very interesting YouTube accounts from students that attend various colleges, worth looking into. Emil Dale do a degree course. First lot of graduates graduating this year. This is a triple threat course with equal time spent on all 3 disciplines. Again there is a top up fee of approx £3k. I have been absent from the forum for a little while as my eldest DS graduated Tring last year but has gone on to pursue a different career and I needed to take a step back. However, I now find myself with my youngest DS who is about to go to full time MT training in September - what did I do to deserve this!!!? So I may have something to add which is worthwhile.

I’m sure I will pop in from time to time and if I think I have anything useful to say, I probably wont be able to help myself!!! But I am planning my own retirement from the ballet world - 51 years of ballet obsessed family folk is long enough.

Thank you. I remember that summer school well. Hope your dd is still happily dancing. X

Thank you everyone for your lovely comments. I know where to come if I need a ballet hit, but for now I need a ballet rest! Xx

Thank you so much balletbean. I will pass on your congratulations. X

I just wanted to say goodbye to all on the forum. I have been active on the forum for approximately 5 years, when my DS got accepted to Tring to start in year 10. It has been an exciting ride but after some great times and some difficult times my DS has decided he no longer wants to pursue a dance career. It has not been an easy decision for him, but after 2 hip surgeries he just felt his heart was no longer in it. Tring have been incredibly supportive of both his time out through injury, giving him many leadership opportunities at school and now his decision to change careers. He will leave with his level 6 diploma in dance, 2 A’levels and a range of good GCSE’s. But more than anything he leaves with an absolute unshakeable belief in himself, self confidence and an ability to hold his head high. He has been allowed to be as big a personality as he is. No one has ever tried to box him in and the academic staff, pastoral team and dance staff have always been encouraging and helpful (this does not mean he has not sometimes been overlooked for opportunities as he has, and it hurt, but he grew from it and always worked harder, and in every single situation turned opinion round into his favour). I am very pleased to say he has just been offered an amazing job as an apprentice chartered surveyor (project manager) in a very prestigious London company. Talk about transferable skills through dance training! He got the job on pure determination, preparation and tenacity. One very happy young man and proud mum and dad. I wish you all the very best of luck for your dancing children and hope their dreams come true, be it in dance or any future change of heart.

Oh my goodness! I’ve not been on here for a while but had to respond to this post. Arucaria, you are such a diligent, hard worker and take your dancing very seriously, which is fantastic. And I 100% agree with Anna’s advice. There is no way any self respecting ballet teacher should tell you to hyperextend your supporting knee in an arabesque - damaging in the extreme to a young growing body. I seriously hope you misunderstood that direction!!! As for ‘fishing’ Your feet in an arabesque, it’s got to be giving a beautiful line and not break it up. A small fishing is acceptable and some people have a natural shape that lends itself to that. To exaggerate it and try to develop something your body is not happy with will inevitably lead to injury. A sickle is ugly and poor technique but a small fish can look beautiful as long as you are still stretching the foot fully and not hooking the foot.

Testing yourself against the competition? Wanting a challenge? The love of competing? The opportunity to take classes with other outstanding teachers? Gaining contacts for future job auditions?

If it is your dream, go for it! You only live once and who knows where it will lead. Congratulations!

Phoenix in Leeds

Thoroughly recommend Tutugirls summer school. My DS attended 3 years running and had a lovely time. Very friendly. Lovely classes. Great after summer school show. Is suitable for both recreational and serious dancers alike.

Tring offer MDS to the students they want from year 7 to 10 entry. The number above seems consistent with most years. Students on MDS in lower school are also able to take it through to upper school if they wish to stay. Of course with the change in dance director this could all change in the future.

A little story of hope maybe. My Ds auditioned for year 10 entry at Tring. He was not vocationally trained at that point, was intermediate level. He was very fortunate to be offered an MDS the very day after funding audition. There are always WL students auditioning and most will be offered places at all the other vocational school. When my son started Tring in the September, 2 WL students had been given MDS and had started Tring in the summer term. The competitiin is very very strong for places but if it is meant to be it will be. If it is not right at this time you have to trust he is better where he is.

So 5 WL girls are through to upper school. Sounds similar to other years. Don’t know about the boys.