Dawid Trzensimiech (leaves Royal Ballet, and ongoing career)

[newballetfan]

Dawid's decision to leave to be a Principal elsewhere makes perfect sense to me, as has been said, some people prefer that to being a smaller fish in a bigger pond. The comparison with Polunin also seems bizarre. But I'm also a bit with Angela on this. The article is stating that dancers called in union bosses last week; surely that's a pretty big deal? Doesn't that indicate a fairly serious problem within the RB? I thought the comment above was interesting and possibly on the money about how RB used to be one of the very few companies dancers were desperate to get INTO, not get out of as seems to be the case lately. I'm hearing a lot of 'oh it's fine, it's fine', but is it really?

[alison]

taxi4ballet, the RB promotes from the ranks and brings in principals from outside.

 

Well, that's not been their M.O. historically, and I'm hoping it won't continue to be, but there were rather a lot of holes in the ranks which needed filling.

[aileen]

I'm in danger of going over old ground here, but outside appointments probably do make senior dancers such as Dawid question their future with the company. I agree that he's not a successor to Sergei, even with his bad attitude, sometimes indifferent partnering and unreliability. I'm going to offend some people here by saying that, IMO, he won't be a great loss to the RB. He is a good classical dancer but is probably not principal material and it is probably a wise to decision to move for a principal's contract. There are some very good and more exciting young male dancers coming through and being given opportunities and I expect that a number of them will rise through the ranks fairly quickly. Having said that, one advantage which Dawid does have is height; a lot of the male dancers are on the short side.

[Legseleven]

Sorry, I typed 'b)' rather than the smiley which has inexplicably crept in!

[BalletcoForum Moderators]

A post on this thread is hidden while it is under review for being thought to contravene the Acceptable Use Policy and/or forum moderation policy.  Posts referring to it have also been hidden.

[billboyd]

Yet, it seems acceptable to describe a dancer as having 'a bad attitude, sometimes indifferent partnering and unreliability'.

[Anna C]

Bill, if you believe a post contravenes the AUP please remember you are able to use the report function as detailed in the Acceptable Use Policy:

 

"Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by clicking the Report link."

 

Kind regards, Annabel

[aileen]

I don't think that my description of Sergei is controversial at all! Sergei would probably agree with me!

[billboyd]

Thanks, Annabel.

[capybara]

We seem to be getting into difficulties with this thread and I would like, if I may, to repeat what I said yesterday but which became erased along with an original post.

 

I don't think that any of us can imagine what it must be like for a relatively young dancer who suddenly finds him/herself the centre of media attention. With hindsight, I expect that the Royal Ballet wishes that it had sought to agree with Dawid how they would jointly 'manage' his departure so that both parties would feel comfortable with what they were saying publicly.

[Anna C]

Perhaps we should take the article with a pinch of salt and wish Dawid well in the next stage of his career. :-)

[Jan McNulty]

In my experience any organisation that has a Union membership tends to have regular meetings between management and union.  The RB meeting could have been nothing more than that and just twisted to suit their purposes by the press.

 

Anyway, the young man has left and I wish him well.  Good luck Dawid.

[chrischris]

Dawid's decision to leave to be a Principal elsewhere makes perfect sense to me, as has been said, some people prefer that to being a smaller fish in a bigger pond. The comparison with Polunin also seems bizarre. But I'm also a bit with Angela on this. The article is stating that dancers called in union bosses last week; surely that's a pretty big deal? Doesn't that indicate a fairly serious problem within the RB? I thought the comment above was interesting and possibly on the money about how RB used to be one of the very few companies dancers were desperate to get INTO, not get out of as seems to be the case lately. I'm hearing a lot of 'oh it's fine, it's fine', but is it really?

 

I think people have over dramatised some of the recent departures, to be honest. Obviously there were issues with Johan and Alina, which happen in every company or workplace, and the Sergei thing was quite dramatic, but he has shown himself to be quite an unpredictable character elsewhere, so in hindsight it doesn't seem that surprising and perhaps the RB just wasn't the right fit for him. Rojo had been talking for ages about being an AD, so her departure wasn't surprising, and given she has returned to guest with them, I would be surprised if there was animosity between her and the RB. Benjamin's retirement was not a surprise to anyone, given she was 49, and Mara was 40 and a new mother, so, again, at the age when people retire. 

[alison]

I think what has surprised me most is the way this article seems to have come out of thin air, yet the author seems to treat it as an ongoing saga.  I know there have been a few days when I've missed out on the newspaper links: has there been anything on the industrial-relations front that I've missed?  It's been clear that the injury situation has caused problems over the last few months, and that some people's (but seemingly not everyone's) workload has increased accordingly.

[Nina G.]

I think people have over dramatised some of the recent departures, to be honest. Obviously there were issues with Johan and Alina, which happen in every company or workplace, and the Sergei thing was quite dramatic, but he has shown himself to be quite an unpredictable character elsewhere, so in hindsight it doesn't seem that surprising and perhaps the RB just wasn't the right fit for him. Rojo had been talking for ages about being an AD, so her departure wasn't surprising, and given she has returned to guest with them, I would be surprised if there was animosity between her and the RB. Benjamin's retirement was not a surprise to anyone, given she was 49, and Mara was 40 and a new mother, so, again, at the age when people retire. 

Many people who read such articles in the Press (about dancers leaving/having left RB) do not even know the real reason why they've left (as explained by Chrischris) and therefore quickly and wrongly conclude there must be something wrong with the Management. 

 

We know, cheap, sensationalist "so-called-journalists" thrive on writing small-minded, ill-informed articles, an easy read for the general public.

 

I admire the RB Management for always keeping their dignity, and for not letting themselves being dragged into sensationalist, cheap journalism.

 

Nothing has changed since the Romans threw the gladiators in front of the lions...oh how the public loved to scream and shout! 

[Pas de Quatre]

There is an article in The Times today, basically rehashing the one in The Telegraph but giving more prominence to the Union meeting.  I think things must have got quite bad for the dancers to feel this should be put on the Union meeting agenda (even if it were one of regular meetings).  It is clear that there have been injury problems recently, and perhaps this is partly due to lack of recuperation time during the day for the dancers. This then has a knock on effect as everyone has to work more to cover absences.  

[MAB]

Many people who read such articles in the Press (about dancers leaving/having left RB) do not even know the real reason why they've left (as explained by Chrischris) and therefore quickly and wrongly conclude there must be something wrong with the Management. 

 

We know, cheap, sensationalist "so-called-journalists" thrive on writing small-minded, ill-informed articles, an easy read for the general public.

 

But some of us do know why certain dancers 'left' and I suspect some journalists do too.  The journalists I despise are the ones that become privy to certain information but choose not to make it public, most probably because they fear losing their privileges.

[alison]

But some of us do know why certain dancers 'left' and I suspect some journalists do too. 

 

Or maybe believe we do, based on what we've heard (and who we've heard it from).

 

 The journalists I despise are the ones that become privy to certain information but choose not to make it public, most probably because they fear losing their privileges.

 

Or more likely because they believe it's an in-house matter, and not something that belongs in the public domain (a borderline which a lot of people seem unable to draw appropriately these days)?  After all, if you were to "leave" your job (your inverted commas), would you necessarily want the reasons being discussed openly and indelibly online?  It could, after all, affect your future job prospects, as well as anything else.

[MAB]

Royal Ballet is very much the public domain, our taxes keep it in existence.

[A frog]

 

 

 

Or more likely because they believe it's an in-house matter, and not something that belongs in the public domain (a borderline which a lot of people seem unable to draw appropriately these days)?  After all, if you were to "leave" your job (your inverted commas), would you necessarily want the reasons being discussed openly and indelibly online?  It could, after all, affect your future job prospects, as well as anything else.

 

But sometimes, as in http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2012/feb/05/men-motion-sergei-polunin-review (it's an old link, but it had struck me then as particularly bad journalism) it does feel like the journalist wants to point out that he belongs to a club where the reader is not admitted, these comments don't help anyone, and if anything are only fuelling speculation that information is being hidden.

[Jan McNulty]

Royal Ballet is very much the public domain, our taxes keep it in existence.

 

I worked for a government department so very much in the public domain but I would be very unhappy if my personal circumstances were discussed on the internet solely because of where I had worked and left under whatever circumstances.

[Sim]

Re. MAB's post no. 52 above.   Whether that is true or not, dancers and any other human beings have a right to privacy and don't necessarily want their personal issues splashed around the newspapers or other media.

[Nina G.]

Royal Ballet is very much the public domain, our taxes keep it in existence.

Not really.....the RB has a lot of wealthy Private UK and International Sponsors and I think if they had to depend only on our taxes they would have had to close their doors already and many would have lost their jobs. It's not only your or my taxes they survive on!   

[MAB]

Re. MAB's post no. 52 above.   Whether that is true or not, dancers and any other human beings have a right to privacy and don't necessarily want their personal issues splashed around the newspapers or other media.

Believe me some would have liked it very much if they were the victim of unfair treatment.  That's why they can be the recipients of generous terms in what I think are called gagging orders.

[Sim]

Believe me some would have liked it very much if they were the victim of unfair treatment.  That's why they can be the recipients of generous terms in what I think are called gagging orders.

In which case you'd think they'd reject the 'generous terms' in favour of transparency.  If I wanted everyone to know my business I'd reject the payout and the gagging order so that I could tell journalists and others exactly what happened to me if I so chose.  If you accept the payout and therefore the gagging order, that's a choice you make.  But having made a choice not to publicly set any records straight, that does not give anyone the right to speculate or delve into their business, although rumour mills are inevitable.

[Tony Newcombe]

Reminds me of a wonderful interview of Sara Wildor by Ismene Brown after Sarra left the RB. Any controversial question was answered by the previosly agreed comment " Anyone want a biscuit" It wasn't too difficult to work out the answer

[MAB]

In which case you'd think they'd reject the 'generous terms' in favour of transparency.  If I wanted everyone to know my business I'd reject the payout and the gagging order so that I could tell journalists and others exactly what happened to me if I so chose.  If you accept the payout and therefore the gagging order, that's a choice you make.  But having made a choice not to publicly set any records straight, that does not give anyone the right to speculate or delve into their business, although rumour mills are inevitable.

 

Dancers are no different from the rest of us and with mortgages to pay and families to support they often have to make difficult decisions.

[JulieW]

That's true MAB, but it's their personal decision about whether information about them is disclosed to the public; noone should repeat information that came from a personal conversation surely

[SMballet]

I wonder if we might have a separate thread to discuss the news about dancers requesting a proper lunch hour and protesting that they weren't given that, and keep that separate from the news about Dawid T.'s leaving, which I suspect (and agree with most of you) had nothing to do with the treatment of dancers and lunch hours and so on, and more to do with his own preference for greener pastures/promotion/perhaps other personal reasons to do with preferring to live in Romania and thus closer to home.

To be honest, I'm so shocked to learn that dancers don't get time to eat their lunch that I've forgotten to react to the sad news about Dawid T's leaving. They don't get time to eat lunch!! And they work so hard, punishing their bodies, all day, for their art. And then we wonder why so many of them are injured so often. I'm so glad they're pushing for a proper formally allocated lunch hour, and I'm really shocked and disappointed that it had to be demanded. The members of the corps have little power, and if a choreog. requires them to be in practice without time off for lunch, what can they say? I'm so glad that their basic rights to food and rest - and thus good health - are being protected. God, what a world! Sorry if this sounds like an overreaction, but, really!

[aileen]

Is there any truth to this or is it just gossip?

[alison]

I'm wondering the same.  I'm pretty sure I've seen dancers' rehearsal schedules with lunch programmed in (albeit not a whole hour, perhaps), but I think it might have been at 1.30.  If they all go for lunch at 1 pm, I can imagine that causing problems.  But then, I'm wondering about the accuracy of the reporting anyway.

[alison]

To be honest, I'm so shocked to learn that dancers don't get time to eat their lunch that I've forgotten to react to the sad news about Dawid T's leaving. They don't get time to eat lunch!! And they work so hard, punishing their bodies, all day, for their art. And then we wonder why so many of them are injured so often. I'm so glad they're pushing for a proper formally allocated lunch hour, and I'm really shocked and disappointed that it had to be demanded.

 

As chance would have it, earlier this week I found Deborah Bull's book "The Everyday Dancer" in the library and borrowed it.  While she admits that it's a movable feast, this is what she has to say about lunch:

 

"Some days you'll have an hour's break early, at midday; others, it will be a very respectable 1.30.  If you're very unlucky, you might work straight through from noon until 3 o'clock before you can stop for something to eat."  (Deborah Bull, The Everyday Dancer, Faber and Faber, 2011, p. 69).

 

I assume that, just like tennis players (who often have no idea when they will actually have to go on court, or how long they'll be out there, so that's even worse!), dancers will have learned to cope with keeping their strength up during these periods.

[capybara]

Dance Europe has posted on Facebook that Dawid is leaving Bucharest and danced his final performance yesterday.

 

[Can't put this on the main thread about developments there as it is locked.]

 

It will be interesting to see where he goes!