Will a new principal be appointed (by promotion or from outside) at the Royal Ballet

[TSR101]

3 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

I wonder if he would have made it to Principal nowadays, when most of the Principals seem to be expected to dance most of the leading roles?

Well it did take him quite a long time then - 11 years roughly I think. 

[alison]

Yes, but don't forget that the late-90s younger dancers pretty much lost a couple of years' development opportunities while the RB was out of the House and they were dancing blocks of big mainly "2 leads plus corps de ballet" blockbusters - and that the company at the time didn't tend to practise the "chuck them in early" policy for lower-ranked dancers we're now seeing under O'Hare.

[Emeralds]

I expect Edward Watson would have been promoted to principal dancer even earlier under the current leadership as:

a) there is a larger amount of McGregor and Wheeldon repertoire in each season now compared to 1995-2005 (ok this is partly due to Watson's own legacy creating memorable roles in both!) 

b) he would probably have been cast as Prince in Nutcracker and Siegfried in Swan Lake while still a soloist (comparing his technique, partnering skills and artistry to the dancing of the last 5 seasons)....and we have longer runs of both ballets now.

 

So....he probably would have been promoted to principal much sooner and quite likely would have danced Siegfried and Nutcracker several times. I'd like to have seen him in those along with the repertoire I've already seen him in! 

[Odyssey]

Interesting reading people’s comments about dancers who made principal with limited experience or reputation in the classical repertoire but who have excelled in twentieth / twenty first century choreography. It really  makes me wonder about Hamilton and why she has been unable to progress her career with the Royal to the highest rank. 

[Legseleven]

Francesca Hayward became a principal without dancing the big tutu classics as far as I remember. 

[Legseleven]

Not sure whether she had danced Giselle by then. 

[capybara]

9 minutes ago, Legseleven said:

Francesca Hayward became a principal without dancing the big tutu classics as far as I remember. 

That promotion (2016) appeared to be linked to the insistence of the Japanese promoters that only Principals could lead performances on the RB’s tour.

[Tony Newcombe]

1 hour ago, Odyssey said:

Interesting reading people’s comments about dancers who made principal with limited experience or reputation in the classical repertoire but who have excelled in twentieth / twenty first century choreography. It really  makes me wonder about Hamilton and why she has been unable to progress her career with the Royal to the highest rank. 

Presently, the only non-principal dancer to have danced Mary Vetsera, Juliet

and Manon. 

 

[Emeralds]

48 minutes ago, Legseleven said:

Francesca Hayward became a principal without dancing the big tutu classics as far as I remember. 

@Legseleven is completely correct - and also about the Giselle. In Hayward's case, the promotion was justified as she was dancing all her roles (from Clara to Perdita to Manon) like a star principal and she had the technique and star quality then. Even in some supporting roles she just had to arrive on stage and the authority and charisma she invested in the part told you "the star has arrived". I wasn't sure why she didn't get the lead roles earlier. 

 

Similarly as @Odyssey and @Tony Newcombe have noted, Hamilton has danced the leads in a number of full length ballets that are currently for principals who can carry the ballet. Even when she took on a non-lead role like Satan in Dante Project, her authority and technical assurance immediately elevated  the role and pas de deux to a higher level. If we're talking about both female and male candidates from any company for the next principal dancer appointment at RB - even if not right now - Hamilton should be the next. 

[Fonty]

55 minutes ago, capybara said:

That promotion (2016) appeared to be linked to the insistence of the Japanese promoters that only Principals could lead performances on the RB’s tour.

 

I think this is how Morera got promoted to Principal as well?  

 

With regard to other dancers who perform lead roles but never get promoted, I wonder if this is either a height issue because there is a lack of male partners tall enough, or because they are regarded as being too useful in their current position.  With regard to the latter there are always dancers who are wonderful in things such as one of the most technically difficult fairy variations in Sleeping Beauty, superb as the Lilac Fairy, or make a fabulous Myrtha in Giselle.  

I can't be the only one who thinks when I hear of a new promotion:  "Great, but what a pity I will never see them do that particular role again".  I know there have been times in the past when Principals have been cast in non lead roles, but I think it is unusual now?

Edited March 2 by Fonty

[Emeralds]

I heard (no proof as I wasn't there) that when Morera was promoted to principal, company members applauded or praised the appointment wholeheartedly, saying things like "at last!" as she had saved the show on so many occasions by substituting for lots of people at very short notice,  knowing the roles so well and being helpful to company members. Another promotion that I think was completely justified. Of course by then Morera had danced quite a few leads due to her last minute replacements for injury and illness. Oddly enough, she's danced Kitri, Sugar Plum Fairy and Manon but not cast as Juliet [when there are so many performances of R&J available]? Very odd.....

[Naomi M]

17 hours ago, MildConcern said:

I remember a funny interview with Watson where he said he once danced Nutcracker in Japan (guest appearance offering a lot of money) and hated every second

 

And I saw that very rare Nutcracker Prince at Noriko Kobayashi Ballet Theatre Tokyo, where Watson was a totally fine, beautiful Prince. He also danced Des Grieux in Manon there, before debuting in that role at RB. 
(btw Noriko Kobayashi Ballet does a fairly amount of MacMillan, Ashton and De Valois works, they have done The Invitation, Gloria, Anastasia, The Two Pigeons, The Rake’s Progress and Checkmate.) 

[Jan McNulty]

IIRC Miyako Yoshida was promoted to principal in Japan during a BRB tour when various injuries on tour left the company without a principal to perform Odette/Odile.

[Sophoife]

21 hours ago, PeterS said:

also, perhaps given it’s increasing popularity, it’s time for the RB to think in the medium to long term about having its own dedicated venue rather than having its opportunities to perform limited by having to share a space with the RO. 

 

Uhh...literally every company shares their performance venue with at least one other company, be that opera or plays or both. Stuttgart, Paris, Berlin, Mariinsky, Bolshoi, ABT/NYCB/Met Opera, San Francisco, Australian Opera and Ballet - neither of which have a proper home theatre anyway...

 

It would be enormously economically unsound to have a venue of the size the Royal Ballet needs for its existing productions and company size dedicated solely to the Royal Ballet.

 

To keep running costs covered, they'd have to be performing six to eight shows a week, for at least 42 weeks a year. Imagine the number of over-use injuries!! A long (30-odd shows) run of Nutcracker alone ends up with all sorts of casting changes due to illness and injury. 

[Sophoife]

2 hours ago, Fonty said:

With regard to other dancers who perform lead roles but never get promoted, I wonder if this is either a height issue because there is a lack of male partners tall enough, or because they are regarded as being too useful in their current position. 

 

Miwako Kubota!!! Danced every single principal role that came along with AusBallet but never promoted from senior artist. The ballerina of my heart.

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, Emeralds said:

Similarly as @Odyssey and @Tony Newcombe have noted, Hamilton has danced the leads in a number of full length ballets that are currently for principals who can carry the ballet. Even when she took on a non-lead role like Satan in Dante Project, her authority and technical assurance immediately elevated  the role and pas de deux to a higher level. If we're talking about both female and male candidates from any company for the next principal dancer appointment at RB - even if not right now - Hamilton should be the next. 

 

Given she's now been a First Soloist for 11 years, unfortunately it feels like if she was going to be promoted to Principal then it would have happened some years ago. (See also Choe, Zuchetti, Hay, etc.) I do wonder whether she would have made it to Principal if Monica Mason had remained AD for a few more years. I got the impression from various interviews with Hamilton over the years that she was a bit of a protegee of hers. Whereas she does not seem to be in favour with the current management when it comes to casting apart from MacMillan & modern works. When she went to Dresden as a Principal I wouldn't have been surprised if she'd decided to stay there. I can't understand why she is so little used in the more classical works. I know her classical technique is not considered the best but I honestly think she'd be better than some of the lower ranked dancers who are getting a go at some roles & not always excelling in them.

 

On 01/03/2024 at 08:08, MAB said:

Okay, if this is to turn into 'nominate a foreign star'  If it is not too arrogant a suggestion.

 

Giorgi Potskhishvili

 

I was extremely impressed by him in the Giselle cinecast in January. I thought he was a very exciting dancer in a powerful, virile way. While the RB has many very talented dancers in the different ranks, is there anyone among the upcoming men who is really exciting in that way?

 

[Emeralds]

40 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

IIRC Miyako Yoshida was promoted to principal in Japan during a BRB tour when various injuries on tour left the company without a principal to perform Odette/Odile.

It would have been an SWRB tour of course (Miyako was promoted to principal 2 years before the move to Birmingham).  I didn't look into the circumstances but I know there were quite a lot of us who thought Miyako was ready to be principal even when she was still a soloist. I first heard of her when someone wrote in to Dance and Dancers to say they'd driven all the way in the pouring rain to see Miyako Yoshida, with SWRB on tour (was it Southampton? Oxford? Can't remember the location. Was that written by one of our members??) I thought, "I've got to see this dancer!" 

 

I eventually saw her on tour with SWRB in Apollo Theatre, Oxford quite by chance while I happened to be in Oxford (I don't think BRB visit Oxford any more) dancing the lead in Theme and Variations with Petter Jacobsson. It was magic. I don't think I've ever seen Miyako being anything less than magical at her performances I've been to. The ballet might be great or not great, but she is always incredible. She doesn't have an off day on stage- whatever else might be happening to her, she knows how to fix anything that might affect the performance and only give her audience magic. 

Edited March 2 by Emeralds

[OnePigeon]

8 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

was extremely impressed by him in the Giselle cinecast in January. I thought he was a very exciting dancer in a powerful, virile way. While the RB has many very talented dancers in the different ranks, is there anyone among the upcoming men who is really exciting in that way?

I completely agree and have been saying for a while that I miss a really powerful dancer like Mukhamadov and Acosta in some roles.  I’ve only caught video clips of Potskhishvilli and he made a strong impression, so much so that I looked into how expensive a trip to Amsterdam would be.  He is certainly top of my wish list.

[Dawnstar]

@OnePigeon Mukhamadov was the dancer I thought of as a comparison too. (Not that I ever saw him live as he was before my time but based on videos.)

[Fonty]

I seem to remember Clement Crisp, in one of his more controversial moments, saying that several noted female Principals would only have been first soloists in the old days.  Yoshida was one of the names he mentioned, and Bussell was another.  (!)

[Sim]

15 minutes ago, Fonty said:

I seem to remember Clement Crisp, in one of his more controversial moments, saying that several noted female Principals would only have been first soloists in the old days.  Yoshida was one of the names he mentioned, and Bussell was another.  (!)

I certainly agree about Bussell, less so about Yoshida. 

[Emeralds]

@Fonty, I do remember that (filmed) interview .... my reaction at the time was "Are you sure about Yoshida??!" But I do remember that he was of the school of thought that favoured interpretation over technique- even if that meant the ballerina only ever did single pirouettes and often  substituted or cut short her fouettes. Even in the 1990s he was saying that the best dancer was Galina Ulanova (who had retired 3 decadea earlier) !  I think as both Bussell and Yoshida were promoted while very young, there was always an undercurrent of "they are not old enough and mature enough as artists to be principals yet" from him.  Of course in the old days, the title first soloist didn't even exist in Britain- the next level up from soloist would be principal. 

Edited March 2 by Emeralds

[Fonty]

23 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

 Of course in the old days, the title first soloist didn't even exist in Britain- the next level up from soloist would be principal. 

 

I can't remember what the levels used to be.  They have changed most of the names of the ranks now.  Nobody is in the Corps anymore, and they have done away with the rank of Coryphee.  Did they just have the 4 ranks - those, plus Soloist and Principal?  

And what exactly is the difference between an Artist and a First Artist?  Longevity?  Leading the Corps  sorry Artists whenever they move?  

 

Edited to add I adored Yoshida.  She had a glorious technique, but there was nothing showy about her dancing.  I can't comment on her dramatic skills, I only ever saw her in the pure classical ballets such as Sleeping Beauty.  

Edited March 2 by Fonty

[Odyssey]

I saw Yoshida quite a few times when she was with SWRB. In my novice opinion she fully deserved the rank of Principal. I agree she was very consistent and extremely watchable- not flashy, but had a fluidity and lightness to her dancing that made quite difficult solos seem effortless.
Sir Peter appears to have rated her very highly. 
I have never quite grasped why Darcey Bussell was considered to be unworthy of the rank . Is this view held about the whole of her dancing career or regarding her early promotion?

[Sophoife]

On the subject of Miyako Yoshida, I saw her dance Stanton Welch's Madame Butterfly in Sydney and she broke my heart.

 

So Clement Crisp can get in a box, so there!

[DVDfan]

I think the issue might be, what makes a principal dancer?

The first soloists mentioned, Hay, Hamilton, and Choe, are all very good at the things they are very good at. Hamilton, for example, is an excellent MacMillan dancer, but she seems to lack sufficient classical technique to excel in the tutu roles and I can't think of an Ashton role she's done well in. 

So, is it that to get that promotion a dancer needs to be exceptional in at least two styles of dancing, besides being good dramatically, and for the men, having good partnering skills?  are there other factors involved too?

[Emeralds]

24 minutes ago, Fonty said:

 

I can't remember what the levels used to be.  They have changed most of the names of the ranks now.  Nobody is in the Corps anymore, and they have done away with the rank of Coryphee.  Did they just have the 4 ranks - those, plus Soloist and Principal?  

And what exactly is the difference between an Artist and a First Artist?  Longevity?  Leading the Corps  sorry Artists whenever they move?  

Coryphee= First Artist

Corps de ballet = Artist 

 

But RB and SWRB/BRB used to have only corps de ballet, coryphee, soloist and principal. Character Artist never used to be a title. If someone did a lot of character roles as a principal character artist like Gary Avis and Kristen McNally they would be promoted and called Principal (which Gerd Larsen was) - which looks weird to us now as they're clearly not dancing Giselle or Romeo! 

Edited March 2 by Emeralds

[Emeralds]

23 minutes ago, Odyssey said:

I saw Yoshida quite a few times when she was with SWRB. In my novice opinion she fully deserved the rank of Principal. I agree she was very consistent and extremely watchable- not flashy, but had a fluidity and lightness to her dancing that made quite difficult solos seem effortless.
Sir Peter appears to have rated her very highly. 
I have never quite grasped why Darcey Bussell was considered to be unworthy of the rank . Is this view held about the whole of her dancing career or regarding her early promotion?

For me, I think her early promotion was a bit too early. (I accept that it was Kenneth MacMillan's wish rather than anything related to the rest of the company or its finances....and it certainly brought a lot of publicity to Bussell and RB, for better or for worse).  I think she was certainly ready to be principal by 1993 (of course MacMillan would pass away suddenly from a heart attack in October 1992).

 

I'm not sure whether Crisp meant throughout their careers or just at the beginning. But he and I didn't agree on a lot of things and I think that was mainly down to whether he felt that the acting spoke to him and the style of the dancing was preserved even if the dancer made a lot of errors or watered down the choreography which to me isn't good enough for a professional show let alone from a principal. He also only seemed to rate Johan Kobborg once he took on the role of Rudolf in Mayerling, although to me Kobborg maintained the same level of excellence as Colas, Nutcracker Prince, or Des Grieux as he did Rudolf- you just can't go crazy and shoot princesses with a revolver if you are Siegfried or the Nutcracker Prince, that's all. 😉 

Edited March 2 by Emeralds

[Fonty]

The topic of Bussell is an interesting one.  Certainly she was extremely capable technically, but I never found myself booking for any of her performances that required any acting skills.  I always felt she was much better in the purely dance roles, and even then she wasn't my first choice.  

 

Looking back now, I find myself wondering why that was, especially as she was held in such high regard by both Mason and Dowell, plus her peers.  Was I missing something?

[Suffolkgal]

I felt exactly the same …

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, DVDfan said:

I think the issue might be, what makes a principal dancer?

The first soloists mentioned, Hay, Hamilton, and Choe, are all very good at the things they are very good at. Hamilton, for example, is an excellent MacMillan dancer, but she seems to lack sufficient classical technique to excel in the tutu roles and I can't think of an Ashton role she's done well in. 

So, is it that to get that promotion a dancer needs to be exceptional in at least two styles of dancing, besides being good dramatically, and for the men, having good partnering skills?  are there other factors involved too?

 

I liked Hamilton as the Fairy Godmother & Fairy Summer in Cinderella last season. To my inexpert eyes her dancing seemed to be on a similar level to the other dancers who I saw in the roles. I think the only other Ashton role I've seen her in was the White Couple in Les Patineurs & in that case I only saw the one performance so didn't have anyone to compare her with.

[capybara]

I spoke to Melissa at a Ballet Association dinner when she had been in Dresden for 2 years.

She had valued the opportunity to dance the classics there but felt that the RB was really where she belonged. “It’s my home,”she said.

I think that mention was also made of the varied opportunities she was getting by working with Roberto Bolle.

[Dawnstar]

It's fortunate for her that Bolle has continued dancing for so long. I wonder if the galas she is organising in the next few months are part of trying to give herself further opportunities for dancing, apart from at the RB, once Bolle retires.