Will a new principal be appointed (by promotion or from outside) at the Royal Ballet

[DVDfan]

1 hour ago, JNC said:

 

also interestingly I found I preferred some dancers as first soloists rather than principals as I saw them more but also found I preferred them in first soloists type roles, and the occasional principal role that felt it was suited/tailored to them. 
 

 

I've also noticed that some dancers look like principals whilst they are first soloists, and like first soloists when they are principals. I'd say Thiago Soares was one who for some reason seemed to 'go off the boil' and stay there. Another was Hirano, who seemed to pause in his artistic development but is now moving forwards and giving notable performances, I'm glad to say.

And dare I say that Campbell looked like a principal all the way through the RB ranks - but like the same principal, where others change with time.

[Emeralds]

4 hours ago, BeauxArts said:

some of whom were promoted when they should not have been. This seems to have the effect of everyone dancing everything, whether it really suits them or not

I agree

[Candleque]

I am NOT saying she shouldn't be a principal (she should) but I loved Francesca Hayward as Clara way more than Sugar Plum. Same with Anna Rose O'Sullivan.

It is always interesting to ponder casting traditions. Why can a dancer be Juliet at any age but not Clara? Yes, I know this role is a big chance for the lower ranked dancers to shine. And Sugar Plum is the technically challenging role. But three out of four Perditas are principals, which is awesome but doesn't follow the same logic imo.

Agree with all above who think the RB principals do not dance enough (at the ROH). Maybe we need more galas or ensemble works. How I wish I could see Alexander Campbell in Dances at a Gathering (live) again. 
 

[art_enthusiast]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

So far Sissens has done Nutcracker Prince & will do Siegfried shortly while Richardson has done Nutcracker Prince & Romeo & will do Des Grieux shortly. Whereas Bracewell had done Nutcracker Prince, Siegfried, Franz & Romeo and Clarke had done Nutcracker Prince, Prince Florimund, Aminta, Des Grieux, Onegin, Siegfried, Albrecht & Romeo.

 

I totally forgot that they both did the Nutcracker prince. I don't go to the Nutcracker often and if so it would only be one performance per run, so I missed them both - I'm sure they were both great.

 

Wow, Clarke has done so many principal roles before becoming Principal. Great exposure for him. I hope the same happens for Sissens and Richardson.

[TSR101]

6 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

Wow, Clarke has done so many principal roles before becoming Principal. Great exposure for him. I hope the same happens for Sissens and Richardson.

TBH this seemed to come about because he became Natalia's choice as partner. I am only guessing, but this seems the logical reason why he did so many, not only principal roles but the lead principal roles before becoming principal. It was actually a bit silly that he wasn't principal sooner given the casting decisions. 

[art_enthusiast]

10 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

TBH this seemed to come about because he became Natalia's choice as partner. I am only guessing, but this seems the logical reason why he did so many, not only principal roles but the lead principal roles before becoming principal. It was actually a bit silly that he wasn't principal sooner given the casting decisions. 

 

Oh yes - that makes sense. I think partnering an up and coming first soloist with an established principal is a good idea. Many opportunities for growth on both sides.

[Dawnstar]

19 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

 

I totally forgot that they both did the Nutcracker prince. I don't go to the Nutcracker often and if so it would only be one performance per run, so I missed them both - I'm sure they were both great.

 

Wow, Clarke has done so many principal roles before becoming Principal. Great exposure for him. I hope the same happens for Sissens and Richardson.

 

I saw Richardson's Nutcracker Prince debut last season but unfortunately he didn't do his scheduled performance this season, presumably due to either illness or injury. Sissens has done several performances of the role in the last 2 seasons but I've not seen him.

 

10 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

TBH this seemed to come about because he became Natalia's choice as partner. I am only guessing, but this seems the logical reason why he did so many, not only principal roles but the lead principal roles before becoming principal. It was actually a bit silly that he wasn't principal sooner given the casting decisions. 

 

He'd already done the Nutcracker Prince, Prince Florimund, Aminta & Des Grieux, and was due to do Romeo in 2019 but was injured, before Muntagirov's withdrawal from Onegin in 2020 first paired him with Osipova. So his casting in principal roles wasn't all due to Osipova wanting him as a partner.

[JNC]

2 hours ago, Richard LH said:

I don't think this is controversial @JNC, this seems to be the overwhelming opinion expressed on this thread so far....including myself. My only caveat is that I would abandon that position if James Hay were promoted, but I am assuming (like others) that is not now likely.

I think I last saw Hay in Cinderella as the stepsister. He gave a great performance but not necessarily what I wanted to see from him! Before that I can’t remember the last time I saw him (cast) in a proper principal role but I don’t attend ROH as much as I used to…

 

The principal who I preferred as a first soloist is O’Sullivan. I didn’t want to name initially as I didn’t want to be too critical but I do find the diverging opinions on here really interesting (as yes on some level it’s all subjective and personal preference) so here goes! obviously my opinion and I do think her technique and performances at first soloist justified a promotion and so I wasn’t surprised at all. But for whatever reason her performances as principal just haven’t clicked with me at all. I didn’t feel a connection to her Odile/Odette and while her Aurora was pretty much technically perfect for some reason the character just didn’t work for me (I know aurora doesn’t have much character compared to say Manon but I like to see her youthful exuberance in act 1 etc and Hayward and Nunez capture this well for me). To be fair to her I saw her debuts so I appreciate she will grow and develop in these roles the more she performs. But in the meantime with limited funds I’m prioritising other principals for now. Regardless of my preferences I do very much think she’s dancing at principal level, it’s more just she doesn’t connect with me in roles the way she used to bring a special sparkle to the first soloist roles for me. 
 

On the flip side Magri was someone who whilst I appreciate was a good solid first soloist didn’t really do it for me for whatever reason. But I sense she is really growing and developing as a principal which is interesting to see, and I’m growing increasingly tempted to book for her more often as she often impresses me when I see her. 

 

And Kaneko is someone who was a fantastic first soloist and continues to amaze and impress me as a principal! Unfortunately I couldn’t see her as Manon this run and still kicking myself for missing her Juliet due to a date clash but hopefully next time! 

[art_enthusiast]

3 hours ago, offmenu said:

As someone mentioned upthread, given the increasing age of quite a few ROH principals & some of their (inevitable) retirements in the next 2-5 years, this convo will probably change in short order. 

 

I guess so - but is it possible to accurately predict who might retire in 2-5 years? I think that the female and male principals in their 40s, for example - Nunez, Cuthbertson, Lamb, Hirano - are dancing as strongly as ever. There isn't really a cut off age exactly.

 

Of course scaling back is necessary for health reasons. I really hope that McRae, for example, is able to come back strongly from his recent injury, but considering one's physical health is the most important thing. 

[offmenu]

5 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

 

I guess so - but is it possible to accurately predict who might retire in 2-5 years? I think that the female and male principals in their 40s, for example - Nunez, Cuthbertson, Lamb, Hirano - are dancing as strongly as ever. There isn't really a cut off age exactly.

 

Of course scaling back is necessary for health reasons. I really hope that McRae, for example, is able to come back strongly from his recent injury, but considering one's physical health is the most important thing. 

That’s fair - and if it was my preference they dance until well into their 50s! I don’t meant to predict anyone in particular (as I certainly didn’t predict Campbell retiring so young) - I only mean to say that there may well be recognizable changes in the ranks by the time some of the younger dancers are ready for promotion, and so nourishing their talent now seems like a fair place to put energy.

[San Perregrino]

48 minutes ago, Candleque said:

the RB principals do not dance enough (at the ROH). Maybe we need more galas or ensemble works

also, perhaps given it’s increasing popularity, it’s time for the RB to think in the medium to long term about having its own dedicated venue rather than having its opportunities to perform limited by having to share a space with the RO. 

[TSR101]

37 minutes ago, art_enthusiast said:

 

I guess so - but is it possible to accurately predict who might retire in 2-5 years? I think that the female and male principals in their 40s, for example - Nunez, Cuthbertson, Lamb, Hirano - are dancing as strongly as ever. There isn't really a cut off age exactly.

 

Of course scaling back is necessary for health reasons. I really hope that McRae, for example, is able to come back strongly from his recent injury, but considering one's physical health is the most important thing. 

Regardless of whether they retire, they will dance less and they will step away from some roles completely. They will also be increasingly susceptible to injuries and recovery time will also lengthen. Their bodies are still human. 

 

27 minutes ago, PeterS said:

lso, perhaps given it’s increasing popularity, it’s time for the RB to think in the medium to long term about having its own dedicated venue rather than having its opportunities to perform limited by having to share a space with the RO. 

 

I think leaving the ROH would be a travesty personally - and given the challenges of finding anywhere to substitute for it during the ROH's renovations I can't think of anywhere they would readily move too. Whilst I have always been jealous of the lavish opera houses that other countries have - the ROH is very drab compared to the Garnier for example - I don't think they would have the money to build something other than a ghastly concrete box somewhere outside of London. 





 

[Bruce Wall]

It is fascinating how this subject so varies from Company and Company and, yes, the traditions, but also the core focus with which the company holds.  The Royal today luxuriates in just so many performances of a fewer number of works but with substantive shifts in the the core idiom which itself has shifted over time.  I would assume this would lead to a fewer number of overall productions performed. 

 

At NYCB things are so very different.  For example, last night a soloist (the dazzling Emma Von Enck) danced in her principal debut in Ballo della Regina (a work which happily the Royal has done once in a very brief run under a different Director) with a member of the corps (he of the stunning entrechats, David Gilbert) also making his debut in the principal (and only) male role in this ravishing work by Balanchine.  They were both spectacular and the audience bellowed their delight.  To put this in perspective, over the past six weeks of seven performances a week (Winter Season) Emma will have danced 29 times in 11 roles in different works of which five were debuts for her.  David will have danced 18 times in seven different significant roles in different works ALL of which were debut performances for him and he has been with the company for a year and a half.  (I just put this down for reference/example.)  Neither of these artists are going to London for the five day season there but both will go to Chicago in the last week of the month for a larger three programme stint over a similar five days.  The NYCB Spring Season begins full rehearsal on 12th March in NYC and opens for another six week season of seven performances a week on 23rd April which is followed by a traditional run at the Kennedy Center in Washington, DC and then their annual summer residence in Saratoga Springs in Upstate NY.  Then the Company has a brief well deserved holiday returning in August to begin rehearsals for the month long Fall Season (again seven performances a week) followed by the Nutcracker (eight performances a week for six weeks) and then back to the Winter season just quoted.  The hierarchical stratification at NYCB has always - out of need I have always assumed - been much more loose than at many other notable addresses.  I have a feeling the NYCB factor that allows for such stealth is at least in part the fact that they have continued to hold to the balletic idiom so strongly such as was Balanchine's request and (while he was alive) demand.  This makes the physical demands on the dancers I would assume much more focused.  

 

 

Edited March 1 by Bruce Wall

[Jan McNulty]

3 hours ago, DVDfan said:

I've also noticed that some dancers look like principals whilst they are first soloists, and like first soloists when they are principals. I'd say Thiago Soares was one who for some reason seemed to 'go off the boil' and stay there. Another was Hirano, who seemed to pause in his artistic development but is now moving forwards and giving notable performances, I'm glad to say.

And dare I say that Campbell looked like a principal all the way through the RB ranks - but like the same principal, where others change with time.

 

That, of course, is because Mr Campbell fully fledged during his time at BRB!  He was fully fledged from day 1 at BRB and was cast in leading roles right from the start.

[FionaM]

No one has mentioned Calvin Richardson’s impressive leading roles in works by McGregor, Wheeldon and Crystal Pite, plus the cello in Marston.   Those will count towards his consideration for promotion, which I think is highly likely this year.  I’d rate him one year ahead of Sissens. 

 

https://www.roh.org.uk/people/calvin-richardson

[Richard LH]

1 hour ago, PeterS said:

also, perhaps given it’s increasing popularity, it’s time for the RB to think in the medium to long term about having its own dedicated venue rather than having its opportunities to perform limited by having to share a space with the RO. 

Wow that's a random thought @PeterS!

I would be fine with this, but where would the Royal Opera go? 🤔😂

[Fonty]

30 minutes ago, Richard LH said:

Wow that's a random thought @PeterS!

I would be fine with this, but where would the Royal Opera go? 🤔😂

I do wish there was a Laugh response to your comment!

[Dawnstar]

2 hours ago, JNC said:

I think I last saw Hay in Cinderella as the stepsister. He gave a great performance but not necessarily what I wanted to see from him! Before that I can’t remember the last time I saw him (cast) in a proper principal role but I don’t attend ROH as much as I used to…

 

His last lead role would have been Prince Florimund in Sleeping Beauty last season. I think he was in the second block of performances so just after Cinderella but I'm not certain of that. I didn't try to see him then as I'd seen him in the role in 2019.

 

46 minutes ago, FionaM said:

No one has mentioned Calvin Richardson’s impressive leading roles in works by McGregor, Wheeldon and Crystal Pite, plus the cello in Marston.

 

Has anyone other than Edward Watson become a Principal primarily on the strength of their performances of modern choreography?

[FionaM]

57 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Has anyone other than Edward Watson become a Principal primarily on the strength of their performances of modern choreography?

 
I doubt if any have.  
 

This doesn’t apply to Calvin who has Romeo, Nutcracker Prince and shortly Des Grieux as lead classical / dramatic roles.  Plus leading supporting virtuoso roles of Benno in Swan Lake, lead pas de six in Giselle, Bluebird and Florestan trio in Sleeping Beauty.  

[Dawnstar]

11 minutes ago, FionaM said:

 I doubt if any have.  
 

This doesn’t apply to Calvin who has Romeo, Nutcracker Prince and shortly Des Grieux as lead classical / dramatic roles.  Plus leading supporting virtuoso roles of Benno in Swan Lake, lead pas de six in Giselle, Bluebird and Florestan trio in Sleeping Beauty.  

 

Watson did do the major MacMillan roles as well, didn't he. What I don't know is if he did anything more classical as he was coming up the company. Time for a rummage around the ROH performance database!

[alison]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

Has anyone other than Edward Watson become a Principal primarily on the strength of their performances of modern choreography?

 

It rather depends on what you mean by "modern".  If you're asking whether he'd danced major Classical roles on his way to the top, then no, but then neither did Mara Galeazzi or Sarah Wildor, and I don't think Ashley Page did either.  OTOH, if you mean contemporary, then he didn't - he'd already made his mark in Ashton, MacMillan (and I think Balanchine?), as well as contemporary, before he was promoted to principal.  (I also suspect that there wasn't the habit of casting everyone in more or less everything to the extent that there seems to be these days - I don't recall any of the runs being long enough to allow for that.)

[capybara]

Edward Watson’s only foray into the classical domain was in Giselle. But possibly that came when he was already a Principal.

[MildConcern]

I remember a funny interview with Watson where he said he once danced Nutcracker in Japan (guest appearance offering a lot of money) and hated every second

[Emeralds]

Edward Watson danced Siegfried in one season while he was a principal dancer. I didn't see it but in retrospect that could have been an interesting performance! I think it's safe to say he wouldn't have been desperate to dance Florimund or Basilio....

[FionaM]

54 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Watson did do the major MacMillan roles as well, didn't he. What I don't know is if he did anything more classical as he was coming up the company. Time for a rummage around the ROH performance database!

I’m aware he performed Romeo in R&J and Palemon in Ondine before becoming a principal.  Were there other full length lead roles before promotion? 

Edited March 1 by FionaM

[Emeralds]

2 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

Has anyone other than Edward Watson become a Principal primarily on the strength of their performances of modern choreography?

Mara Galeazzi. She didn't get Odette/Odile, Nikiya, Aurora. I can't remember if she was passed over for Lise, Swanilda (she did dance the Dawn variation in Act 3) and Sugar Plum Fairy or whether she was offered them once and no more. She did Giselle, Tatiana, Manon, Firebird, Gamzatti, Juliet, Mary Vetsera and Countess Larisch a lot, and McGregor, Brandstrup, and lots of choreographers liked creating roles on her. The difference with Watson is that she would have liked to have done all the classics. It's strange that she wasn't given Odette/Odile (she had beautiful line), because if you can do Gamzatti, Odile should be not be too difficult and Odette is not technically all that difficult- it's the acting, artistry and maturity that's challenging (which Galeazzi could do).

Edited March 1 by Emeralds

[alison]

26 minutes ago, capybara said:

Edward Watson’s only foray into the classical domain was in Giselle. But possibly that came when he was already a Principal.

 

It did.  (And I still treasure the brief clip of him rehearsing it with Alina Cojocaru!  Could have been very interesting.)

 

12 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

Edward Watson danced Siegfried in one season while he was a principal dancer. I didn't see it but in retrospect that could have been an interesting performance! I think it's safe to say he wouldn't have been desperate to dance Florimund or Basilio....

 

I'm pretty certain that was in an alternate universe   I think he did say he might have liked to have had a go at Siegfried once.

[alison]

4 hours ago, FionaM said:

I’m aware he performed Romeo in R&J and Palemon in Ondine before becoming a principal.  Were there other full length lead roles before promotion? 

 

I'm not sure there were.  He'd tended to make his mark in the one-act ballets, I think: Oberon, Symphonic Variations, Song of the Earth, whatever Balanchines aren't coming to mind at present, Gloria, loads of new works, ... my brain's gone on the rest at the moment.  Daphnis, 4 Ts, as Emeralds says - the oldest programme I have access to at present is, surprisingly enough, the Different Drummer one from 2008, so I can't be sure what was before and what was after he was promoted.

Edited March 1 by alison
Added more works

[Emeralds]

6 minutes ago, alison said:

 

It did.  (And I still treasure the brief clip of him rehearsing it with Alina Cojocaru!  Could have been very interesting.)

 

 

I'm pretty certain that was in an alternate universe   I think he did say he might have liked to have had a go at Siegfried once.

He was definitely cast as Siegfried once after he was already a principal  - it might have literally been just one performance. I didn't book it but a friend did and she said it was good, his acting was very strong, but he didn't dance the Act 3 pas de deux as the technical fireworks that most people do. 

 

He also danced The Four Temperaments the same time that Muntagirov made his debut in the ballet - both were very good. I have  photos of both of them at curtain calls. I remember there being a slight bit of confusion as to which Temperament was supposed to bow first. 

Edited March 1 by Emeralds

[alison]

How on earth did I miss it, in that case?!  I always wanted to see his interpretation of the role.

[Emeralds]

Well that's odd....I looked up the ROH collections database and I can't find Watson's name in the listings for Swan Lake (and at that time they did document every show and even substitutions halfway through.) Maybe she got the casting mixed up and it was McRae or Samodurov she was thinking of. She didn't mention who danced Odette-Odile.There sure are a lot of names in that database including loads that I had no idea ever danced the leads in Swan Lake! 

Edited March 1 by Emeralds

[Emeralds]

I think it's probably you that's right and she that's mistaken, @alison.....unless someone can find us the cast sheet for that show to prove it! Also doesn't help that I didn't go either! 

 

He definitely did The Four Temperaments though. Hand on heart! He ran out first and got motioned to wait ("no you're more important- you bow last!") Database also does confirm that Watson danced the lead in Phlegmatic at lots of performances. 

Edited March 1 by Emeralds

[Dawnstar]

A trail through the ROH database gives the following roles in the classics for Watson before he became Principal: Sleeping Beauty (Cavalier, Carabosse, English Prince), Nutcracker (Rose Fairy Escort, Spanish), Coppelia (Betrothal dance), Swan Lake (Spanish, Mazurka, Waltz, pas de trois), Giselle (pas de six), Raymonda Act III (Lead Hungarian), Bayadere (pas d'action).

 

The only classical roles I can find once he became Principal are Albrecht & the Spanish Prince in Sleeping Beauty. I can't find any sign of Siegfried. (I'm also rather surprised to see he danced the Fourth Movement in Symphony in C a number of times as I wouldn't associate him with Balanchine.)

 

The only lead roles he'd danced in full length ballets before being promoted to Principal were Romeo and Palemon. I wonder if he would have made it to Principal nowadays, when most of the Principals seem to be expected to dance most of the leading roles?

 

As an aside I'm fascinated by the titles of some of the ballets in the 1990s & 2000s: Mr Worldly Wise; Cheating, Lying, Stealing; When We Stop Talking; Sawdust And Tinsel; A Stranger's Taste; Hidden Variables; Sleeping With Audrey; Castle Nowhere; This House Will Burn [who thought that was a good title at a newly-refurbished theatre that had burned down twice in the past?!].

 

In June 2003 Manon, R&J and Mayerling all had performances. I am very envious!