New Year, New Season Ballet wishes

[Sim]

Sadly, from what I hear I wouldn't hold your breath for Fille any time soon.  

[Dawnstar]

As someone who's not see it, that's a great pity. I was hoping the extract appearing in the Diamond Celebration meant it would be back in full soon-ish. Do you know why? I didn't think it was considered suddenly problematic in the way La Bayadere has suddenly become problematic.

[Fonty]

53 minutes ago, Sim said:

Sadly, from what I hear I wouldn't hold your breath for Fille any time soon.  

 

I won't ask why, but I do hope it isn't for the reason expressed by @Dawnstar

 

On that topic, a friend in Scotland made me aware of the following article:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/aberdeen-university-peter-pan-novel-trigger-warning-b1051745.html

 

 

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

As someone who's not see it, that's a great pity. I was hoping the extract appearing in the Diamond Celebration meant it would be back in full soon-ish. Do you know why? I didn't think it was considered suddenly problematic in the way La Bayadere has suddenly become problematic.

Apparently there is some worry about the character of Alain.  I so hope it’s not true.  Fille for me is one of the best ballets of the 20th century.  To be clear, this is not in any way official, so hopefully the rumblings are not accurate.  But the way things are nowadays, it wouldn’t surprise me. 

[Dawnstar]

57 minutes ago, Sim said:

Apparently there is some worry about the character of Alain.  I so hope it’s not true.  Fille for me is one of the best ballets of the 20th century.  To be clear, this is not in any way official, so hopefully the rumblings are not accurate.  But the way things are nowadays, it wouldn’t surprise me. 

 

Thanks for your reply. As I've not seen the piece I don't know much about the character, except that he's the wealthy suitor that the heroine doesn't want to marry, so don't know why he might be considered a problem.

[Sim]

51 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

Thanks for your reply. As I've not seen the piece I don't know much about the character, except that he's the wealthy suitor that the heroine doesn't want to marry, so don't know why he might be considered a problem.

Because he is (not sure how to say it these days) mentally challenged.  

[Fonty]

Alain is a character that my mother would have referred to as "a little bit simple."  He is dealt with in the ballet in a very affectionate and kindly manner (at least I think so) and he literally gets the last laugh.  

[SheilaC]

I agree with Fonty that Alain gets the last laugh, returning for his beloved umbrella after all the other dancers have exited the stage. Ashton obviously loved him and from Alexander Grant, the creator of the role, on, some dancers have portrayed him sympathetically and subtly. But others have not- from Alexander Grant's brother, Garry, on, crudely playing him for laughs in a way that has always been offensive and inappropriate.

[Fonty]

50 minutes ago, Sim said:

I would say that having people decide on our behalf what might be offended by or what we can and can’t see is definitely a form of censorship.  

 

Absolutely.  Plus, if you attempt to remove or rewrite the character of Alain, then what would be put in his place?  As it stands, it is absolutely plain to everyone why Lise doesn't  want to marry him, over and above being in love with someone else.   He is an innocent child in a grown man's body; not really capable of understanding what is going on at all, but going along with it because his father tells him to.   In the right hands it is a wonderful part as the dancer can evoke both humour and pathos.  I haven't seen the ballet for a while, but he is treated in a kindly fashion as I recall?  Change him to something more acceptable, such as a genuine suitor in love with Lise, and it becomes a different ballet altogether.  It simply wouldn't work.  

On a different tack, I would love to see some more classical triple bills on the menu.  These usually seem to be one purely classical, one dramatic, and one humorous to finish up with.  On top of the ones already mentioned for Ashton, I would add Monotones I and II to the list.  MacMillan's Concerto gets a huge thumbs up from me as well.  . 

 

On the subject of dramatic ballets, personally I would give a Month in the Country a bit of a rest.  How about the Rite of Spring? Or Checkmate?   With regard to humour, they usually trot out the Concert. Enjoyable as it is, surely it can't be the only option surely? I am struggling to think of any other funny ballets that could round off the bill nicely.  Les Patineurs has already been mentioned; not exactly comedy but with humorous moments.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Fonty

[Tango Dancer]

1 hour ago, Fonty said:

 

Absolutely.  Plus, if you attempt to remove or rewrite the character of Alain, then what would be put in his place?  As it stands, it is absolutely plain to everyone why Lise doesn't  want to marry him, over and above being in love with someone else.   He is an innocent child in a grown man's body; not really capable of understanding what is going on at all, but going along with it because his father tells him to.   In the right hands it is a wonderful part as the dancer can evoke both humour and pathos.  I haven't seen the ballet for a while, but he is treated in a kindly fashion as I recall?  Change him to something more acceptable, such as a genuine suitor in love with Lise, and it becomes a different ballet altogether.  It simply wouldn't work.  

 

Yes, I don't think he's usually treated unkindly.  He's not mistreated or hurt and at the end he's happy with his umbrella.  He never comes across much as someone who desperately wanted to marry Lise particularly and it doesn't come across as though he's upset or heartbroken.  He's content with what he's got, rich and has a good umbrella. People come away from ballets in a lot worse shape quite often.  You're right, it wouldn't work if he was in love with Lise because it would make him pitiable rather than amusing. 

[LinMM]

I’ve just remembered my A level reading material in both French and German ….at least two books about people contemplating suicide 😳

 

Anyway I would love Fille or Pigeons next season or at least the ice skating one Les Patineurs so see some Ashton next season at least. 

[Tango Dancer]

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

Well yes that’s true in the end. 
Most of us are quite capable of censoring material we want to read watch or see for ourselves. 
Probably 60-70 percent of the population will have had some serious negative experience/s by the time they reach 50 and certainly include myself in this but I know for myself what not to read/ watch etc if I know the subject matter is likely to upset me. 
I wonder if the problem is that in more recent years there has been a tendency to sue people/ organisations etc for any “harm” caused by experiencing their material and so now there is more reluctance to show/offer certain things in case there is some kind of backlash. So these warnings are a way of protecting authors/ organisations/ educational institutions and even choreographers from being sued. 
But if a ballet like Fille needs some kind of warning then definitely ballets like Mayerling and Manon will need them too and probably even R&J! 

 

 

Yes, I don't watch King Lear any more because it upsets me as I get older and as I've seen people suffer with Alzheimers and it gives me bad memories of dealing with it.  I won't watch Handmaid's Tale because it's too near the bone in the light of some of the things going on for women in the world.  As I get older I like lighter, frothier repertoire more and serious, depressing stuff less.  Sometimes I do go to things that upset me (especially Madame Butterfly) because I love the music enough to sit through my issues with the plot.    

 

That said I think the thing is to know what you're going to and know what you're taking family to and if you go to something that is distressing then live with it.  The other thing I think is to explain to children what they're seeing and reading and answer questions.  My parents never controlled my reading so I often read advanced books with troubling concepts and then my mother discussed them with me.  So when they had outdated and patriarchal attitudes in (which a lot did) we discussed why.  

 

So I think ballet companies should still stage some potentially problematic things (like Bayardere which I love) but should explain the context in the programme and ensure they know what they're seeing and why.  

[Fonty]

It is one thing for someone to stop seeing something because it brings back unpleasant memories, or someone personally finds it upsetting.  It is quite another to stop other people seeing it.  

 

On that topic, I would like to see The Invitation again.  Very powerful drama, even if the subject matter is unsettling, to say the least.  I would far rather see that than The Judas Tree.    

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Fonty said:

It is one thing for someone to stop seeing something because it brings back unpleasant memories, or someone personally finds it upsetting.  It is quite another to stop other people seeing it.  

 

On that topic, I would like to see The Invitation again.  Very powerful drama, even if the subject matter is unsettling, to say the least.  I would far rather see that than The Judas Tree.    

I would like to see Las Hermanas and Different Drummer again too.  

[DanJL]

I think there's probably a difference between trigger warnings for content that some may find upsetting, and content that makes fun of, stereotypes or is insensitive to a particular group of people. Especially when that group may be viewed as being disadvantaged in some way. There are unfortunately many clear examples of the latter (across different art forms and media), which most people would agree it would be inappropriate to show in our thankfully more understanding times.

 

However, there are also plenty of examples where such an interpretation is much more borderline and therefore divides opinions. I imagine Fille and La Bayadere might be seen as examples of borderline cases and if so perhaps some directors of ballet companies decide to take a cautious approach to avoid the possibility of making an insensitive programming decision.

 

If that's what's happened with these two ballets, hopefully there's a solution of some kind that can preserve the choreography and spirit of the ballets. 

[Blossom]

Back to the topic in hand I am just going to reiterate a lot of what others have said - but should this thread be viewed by those in power it will hopefully contribute!
 

Mostly reiterating what others have already said but would love to see Bayadère again- it’s such a gorgeous production. I was star struck sitting at the studio rehearsal last time with Natalia Makarova coaching.

 

MORE ASHTON - it’s definitely time Sylvia came back to the stage and would like to see Marianela dance it as I made a bad choice last time!!! Fille is indeed overdue and would be lovely as a second ballet to Nutcracker in the lead up to Christmas season. Alternatively.

 

I have been waiting years for Alice to finally introduce my son to the ROH, but this is the only Wheeldon I want to see this year - can’t take more than one Talbot score.
 

I mostly want to see the number of productions bolstered again so we have plenty to choose from, with a decent classical mixed bill in each season’s programme. My favourites in the past were Ashton triples or themed triples such as the intelligently programmed Russian triple bill which combined Firebird, Winter Dreams and Symphony in C. It may be a touchy subject revisiting Russian heritage productions but given we aren’t going to see any Russian companies in the UK anytime soon I would like us to get the opportunity to see more in the vein of Firebird if in the rep.  Also MacMillan triple - revisit some more modern pieces from the anniversary year.

We never got to see Prodigal Son due to Covid and would love to get an opportunity to see Osipova and Claire Calvert dance the Siren. An emotional bruiser of a ballet but have only seen it danced in New York. Another emotional bruiser I would love to see is Rite of Spring (MacMillan).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DanJL]

Again nothing that hasn't already been mentioned but my main wish for next season would be Jewels. Perhaps after the success of Diamonds they could be tempted to programme the full ballet. I've never seen it live before (and even missed the show of Diamond celebration I'd booked for) so would love to see Royal Ballet perform it. 

 

After that, Sylvia is another one I haven't seen but would really like to. And definitely like the idea of another winter triple bill - ideally featuring Les Patineurs and Winter Dreams again! 

[Richard LH]

Yes,  more RB Ashton please ...Fille definitely a must. Even if, for an arguably over-sensitive fear about causing offence, the hitherto portrayal of Alain were seen to be somehow objectionable, I don't see that the whole ballet would need be ditched for that - his character trait is not really crucial to the story and could be tweaked into e.g. more of a show-off than a simpleton. Whilst on that subject, though, I find his  breast-poking  (as seen in the Nunez/Acosta recording) to be jarring and unnecessary and presumably it would not be repeated today.

I would love to see The Dream too -  hopefully  themes such as  child trafficking, substance abuse, mockery of rustics, partner swapping, and over-fondness of an animal, could be covered by a suitable content warning 🤔😄

[Shade]

Oh yes it would be lovely to see The Dream 

[LinMM]

Yes me too love that ballet and some good casts for it around at the moment!! 
How about The Dream, Monotones and Les Patineurs as a possible combi. 

[Fonty]

11 hours ago, LinMM said:

Yes me too love that ballet and some good casts for it around at the moment!! 
How about The Dream, Monotones and Les Patineurs as a possible combi. 

 

Now you're talking!  A perfect combination, I might get tickets for every performance.  

[Blossom]

Back to the main plot of this thread, I realised I was so wrapped up in my Royal Ballet wish list that I forgot about everything else! 

 

Scottish Ballet - bring Little Mermaid to London!

 

BRB - sad not to have Still Life at the Penguin Cafe triple coming to London so  would love this to be part of their next programme at Sadlers Wells and a return to them bringing a full length and a triple bill over a week of performances. Didn’t get to see Bintley’s Hobson’s Choice last time it came and still waiting. I understand from an email from BRB in response to my request for a London visit is that something exciting and full length is coming in Autumn…. Otherwise, best hope of Fille I think is here not RB.

 

Northern Ballet- would love to see them bring a classic (any classic) to London, so not fussy. 

[Guest]

2023/2024 will be the 100th anniversary of Les Noces and Les Biches. My only wish is that we get to see these two ballets again at Covent Garden next season

[alison]

I've moved much - but not all - of the discussion relating to trigger warnings to a separate thread, as it was threatening to take over the whole thread.  Unfortunately, I made a bit of a hash of it, but I hope everything has survived the journey unscathed.  It could also do with a better title, if anyone has any ideas!

 

 

[Ianlond]

On 13/01/2023 at 13:58, Darlex said:

2023/2024 will be the 100th anniversary of Les Noces and Les Biches. My only wish is that we get to see these two ballets again at Covent Garden next season

I couldn’t agree more! I wonder if some timely emails might raise the profile for those planning the season (although I’m guessing most of it is already planned tbh)?