Swan Lake - various productions that you have seen?

[CHazell2]

Hi everyone.

 

The recent discussion on the upcoming new RB production of Swan Lake has set me thinking about how most people consider Sir Frederick Ashton to be the greatest choreographer and how his additions to Swan Lake are considered to be the best? I just wondered why that was?

 

So I would like to open the discussion to ask you all, why you think that the Ashton additions to Swan Lake are better and what RB Swan Lakes has everybody seen and what is your opinions on the various productions that you have seen? For the purposes of this discussion, only British productions, e.g. ENB, BRB and RB are to be discussed.

 

I love ballet history and I want to discover how various productions evolved to the present day in terms of chorographical interpolations etc. set designs and so forth.

 

Also, I wanted to ask a hypothetical question - if Yoanna Sonnabend had not got her way over the designs, would the Dowell production had been so criticised on here?

[Jan McNulty]

Shame you missed out NB and SB!

 

The first performance of Swan Lake I saw, in my very early ballet-watching days was Peter Darrell’s production for Scottish Ballet. Act 2, IIRC, was Siegfried’s drug induced dream. I was bored rigid but that is not necessarily a reflection on the production as I was a real ballet-watching novice and my tastes have changed a lot over the years.

 

Galina Samsova’s production for Scottish Ballet was very traditional and absolutely sublime. It was designed by Jasper Conran IIRC.

 

I saw the premiere of Makarova’s production for LFB/ENB in Bradford and absolutely loved it. In the white acts, Rothbart was a projection.

 

Also for ENB I saw the Russian-produced version with 4 interminable acts and a happy ending. I hated it!

 

Derek Deane’s proscenium production was very attractive and enjoyable with Ashton’s deliciously sublime Neapolitan. I only saw his RAH production for the first time 18 months ago and was blown away by it!

 

In my early ballet-watching days NB had an attractive traditional production by Robert de Warren. One of my earliest memories is seeing Rudolf Nureyev dancing in this in Manchester.

 

I saw the RB’s current production in 1989 and loathed it so much I have never wanted to see it again.

 

Sir Peter Wrights’s traditional production for BRB has always been a favourite.

 

All the above have, more or less, had very similar Act2s and I would class them all as traditional productions.

 

NB has done 2 other productions - one staged by Christopher Gable and an American choreographer whose name I can’t remember and which was largely rechoreograhed by Michael Pink. It followed the traditional story-line but act 2 was all-New choreography.  Highlights were the courtesan presented in a carpet and the roller-skating tutor in act 1. The white acts were powerful and moving.

 

NB’s current production is by David Nixon and has a completely different scenario - a love triangle set in America just before the First World War. I absolutely love it!!!

 

I have loved Matthew Bourne’s production since I first saw it in 1995.

[CHazell2]

1 hour ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

 

I saw the RB’s current production in 1989 and loathed it so much I have never wanted to see it again.

 

 

Hi Jan, thanks for your reply. You are quite right. I did miss out NB and SB. 

 

Just out of interest, why did you dislike the RB?

[Jan McNulty]

I hated the costumes, I hated the set, I found a lot of it overfussy. I was bored. I may have risked it again but, over the years, a lot of people’s views seemed to coincide with mine.

[penelopesimpson]

2 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

I hated the costumes, I hated the set, I found a lot of it overfussy. I was bored. I may have risked it again but, over the years, a lot of people’s views seemed to coincide with mine.

With you all the way, Janet, but never liked to confess to being bored.  Sure, it was worth seeing for some wonderful dancing but if RB were not mounting a new production, I doubt I would have booked.  I saw the Marinsky this year and found my attention wandering.   I also loved Matthew Bourne's.  

[Blossom]

I rather like the existing RB version, I like the opulence and one of the things I love the most about Swan Lake is the various character dances. Interesting Penelope that your mind wandered during the Mariinsky version- I absolutely agree and it wasn’t particularly memorable.

Does anyone recall the documentary from years ago which covered Derek Deane’s staging of Swan Lake at the RAH? Assume it was the first year it was on there...? He was absolutely scathing about the number  of bad productions out there... would be interested to know which ones he rated!

[Sophoife]

4 hours ago, Blossom said:

Does anyone recall the documentary from years ago which covered Derek Deane’s staging of Swan Lake at the RAH? Assume it was the first year it was on there...? He was absolutely scathing about the number  of bad productions out there... would be interested to know which ones he rated!

Is that the first part of the ENB series, Agony and Ecstasy? I remember him as hilariously stereotypical: waspish ranging to bitchy, demanding ("what Derek wants Derek gets"), and ultimately single-minded in pursuit of his vision. But he was conscious of being careful in how pushy to be with baby Muntagirov, which I liked, even though (because she wasn't his vision) he was so mean to Klimentová.

 

Luckily, @CHazell2 specified British companies, so nobody will be able to scathe on the Graeme Murphy version 😉 (which we down here see perhaps a little too often).

[MissMonk]

I've seen various productions on YouTube but for the RB I've seen the one in 2009 with Torres as Siegfried, and I watched that YouTube one of McRae and Sarah Lamb when they were in Russia. Someone filmed it.

[WoodlandGladeFairy]

I've got various Swan Lakes on blu-ray and of course the magic of YouTube has various snippets and clips of various productions of Swan Lake and time and time again I just feel the Royal Ballet's 1982 production (designs by Leslie Hurry) remain my favourite (it also has the most wonderful Ashton choreography in Act IV and a fabulous solo for Siegfried choreographed by Nureyev).

 

I was and am still lukewarm on the Dowell 'Swan Lake', I didn't like it being updated to the 19th century, nor the Swan maidens not being in tutus, there is just something magical about the formations when done in tutus and that the production was just too busy. Also its a medieval fantasy tale, use medieval or cod-medieval designs and inspiration.

[Blossom]

On 05/01/2018 at 16:01, Sophoife said:

Is that the first part of the ENB series, Agony and Ecstasy? I remember him as hilariously stereotypical: waspish ranging to bitchy, demanding ("what Derek wants Derek gets"), and ultimately single-minded in pursuit of his vision. But he was conscious of being careful in how pushy to be with baby Muntagirov, which I liked, even though (because she wasn't his vision) he was so mean to Klimentová.

Yes that’s the one. He was horrid to Klimentova- unbelievably so considering it was all being filmed as well! Grounds for constructive dismissal in any regular workplace....

[Odyssey]

On 5 January 2018 at 05:51, Jan McNulty said:

 

 

Sir Peter Wrights’s traditional production for BRB has always been a favourite.

 

And for me too. A joint creation with Galina Samsova way back in 1981(?) when BRB was in its previous form as Sadler Wells Royal Ballet. 

There was an excellent book by Barbara  Newman published by Dance Books about the production which you can still pick up on line.

[aileen]

The Nureyev solo for Siegfried is included in the Deane Swan Lake for ENB (proscenium version). I very much like this production which has a lot of very good choreography for the ensembles (eg the waltz in the first act, the dance of the princesses in the third). Personally, I much prefer the traditional white tutus for the swans to the longer, shaggier ones worn in the Dowell production for the RB.

[Guest]

Does anyone remember John Field's production for Festival Ballet back in 1982. IIRC it was also supposed to be Siegfried's point of view. Perhaps someone else could clear that up for me? In comparison to ENB's current proscenium production the sets, by Carl Toms, were substantial looking, with a grand, imposing staircase in Act 3. It possibly cost too much to tour and Schaufuss replaced it only 6 years later with Markarova's production. In the Toms designs, Odette had a proper tutu while the rest wore long skirts and I didn't mind, even though that was one of my gripes with the Dowell/Sonnabend production! Looking at photos of many earlier productions (Sadler's Wells Ballet, London Festival Ballet and possibly some Russian productions), this costume arrangement for the swans is very much in evidence. 

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Darlex

[trog]

On 1/5/2018 at 00:31, CHazell2 said:

The recent discussion on the upcoming new RB production of Swan Lake has set me thinking about how most people consider Sir Frederick Ashton to be the greatest choreographer and how his additions to Swan Lake are considered to be the best?

 

 

I definitely don't think that!

 

I've seen many different Swan Lakes. The most obvious one is Mathew Bourne's treatment which is OK but I think that he created it with mostly men, largely to be different.

 

Graeme Murphy's version for the Australian Ballet is stunning. Drawing inspiration from a certain 1981 royal wedding, Baroness Rothbart is the other woman. Odette has a nervous breakdown and is committed to an asylum, where she discover solace while watching the swans swimming on the lake near by. She imagines that she is swimming with them and recovers. During her internment Siegfried and Rothbart part company and Odette rejects his new advances, moving on with her life. In this production, some of the music has been moved about, while the costumes are clearly based on Imperial Russia. This is the only version that I know of, where the lake plays an important role and is presented as a lake.

 

Jan Fabre version for the Royal Ballet of Flanders, which I saw at the 2002 Edinburgh Festival, is quite odd. The choreography is mostly the well known classical version but with some extra characters who appear for seemingly no reason. During the first act, a dwarf moves among the swans, and slices the stomach of some, who fall down and die. Later they stand up and carry on dancing. There is a scene where some knights are standing on a wall, wringing out their handkerchiefs to create the lake. Rothbart has a live owl perched on his helmet, which is allowed to fly off a bit, although the birds legs are tethered. While the staging was fab, I felt the ballet lacking in substance.

 

The Guangdong Acrobatic Troupe of China's version of the ballet added frogs, monkeys and a camel to the story, which is performed with martial arts, acrobats and firey hoops.

 

Derek Deane's version in the round, enlarges the corps, but the choreography pretty much follows the well known.

 

Shakti, the wonderful Japanese/Indian dancer who used to appear at the Edinburgh Festival, presented a one woman version, although sometimes her two usual co-conspirators appear in the role of the prince. Her version is really more about swans than Odette/Odile. She says that the black swan symbolizes the material world, while the white swan is the pure desire that beckons from within the soul. You can see Shakti at the Adelaide Festival Fringe in March this year, with a new work.

 

When the Swansea Ballet Russe where performing, their Swan Lake was presented with 13 dancers. The most striking feature of their version was that two dancers took the normal dual role of Odette/Odile. This allowed each to bring out the best in their role. The dancers told me that they preferred the role of Odile, saying the dark side gives more scope for acting.

 

Finally, there is a pornographic version available on DVD from Japan. It follows the usual choreography, with some terrible dancing. After the ballroom scene, Odette and Siegfried have a bonk. The third act lake is bondage. Very strange indeed.

 

There are probably some other versions that I have seen, but the above are the ones that I can remember (for better or worse!)

 

[assoluta]

49 minutes ago, trog said:

The most striking feature of their version was that two dancers took the normal dual role of Odette/Odile.

 

This has been, in fact quite common, to have different dancers performing the parts of Odette and Odile, sometimesit was due to the fact that the more accomplished dancer of the two was unable to do the fouettes. The fouettes, by the way, aren't strictly speaking obligatory, as some of the greatest dancers of the past demonstrated.

[Lizbie1]

20 minutes ago, assoluta said:

 

This has been, in fact quite common, to have different dancers performing the parts of Odette and Odile, sometimesit was due to the fact that the more accomplished dancer of the two was unable to do the fouettes. The fouettes, by the way, aren't strictly speaking obligatory, as some of the greatest dancers of the past demonstrated.

 

I don't fetishise fouettes, but I'd argue that, in this day and age, there's a difference between choosing not to do them (e.g. Plisetskaya) and being unable to do them (I'm not going to name names).

[Fonty]

1 hour ago, trog said:

Rothbart has a live owl perched on his helmet, which is allowed to fly off a bit, although the birds legs are tethered. While the staging was fab, I felt the ballet lacking in substance.

 

 

A bit lacking in owl pellets and bird poo for your liking, Trog? 

 

I would have no problem at all if Odile either couldn't or wouldn't do the fouettes.  I've watched some dancers with my fingers crossed, nervous that they are going to fall over.  It doesn't make for good viewing.  It would be wonderful if each Odile could choose her own individual bit of technical wizardry. e.g some dazzling jumps, beats, moving turns......

 

[aileen]

I haven't seen many versions of Swan Lake and they have all been fairly traditional (although a couple had a happy ending). The one exception was the Maillot production for Les Ballets de Monte-Carlo which I saw at the Coliseum a couple of years ago. It was radically different with a different back story (which I can't now remember) and very different costumes: scraggy feathered leotards for the swans.

[Lizbie1]

2 minutes ago, Fonty said:

 

I would have no problem at all if Odile either couldn't or wouldn't do the fouettes.  I've watched some dancers with my fingers crossed, nervous that they are going to fall over.  It doesn't make for good viewing.

 

 

But presumably that falls under the category of "couldn't"?

 

Though for me, the more interesting bit is how Odile chooses to end the coda - my strong preference is for echappés, so much more glamorous than hopping backwards in arabesque.

[MAB]

Would like to point out that having two separate dancers as Odette and Odile isn't always about fouettes, in the past producers have simply liked the idea of Siegfried falling for a different woman, after all how can he be blamed for swearing eternal fidelity to Odette in her black outfit?

[assoluta]

12 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

I don't fetishise fouettes, but I'd argue that, in this day and age, there's a difference between choosing not to do them (e.g. Plisetskaya) and being unable to do them (I'm not going to name names).

 

You assume that Plisetskaya was choosing not to them, hmm..., what if she felt she was unable to do them?

[Lizbie1]

 

[Jan McNulty]

A few seconds of fouettés do not a performance make!  I prefer to consider the overall performance rather than one step repeated for a few seconds.

 

In terms of fouettés I prefer seeing them as singles (as shown in the fab clip above) rather than with double and triple turns thrown in as these nearly always (to me) do not go with the music.  My only exception to this (so far in my ballet-watching career) would be Momoko Hirata who whips them out so fast that sometimes the music seems to have difficulty in keeping up with her!

[Fonty]

On 08/01/2018 at 14:58, Lizbie1 said:

 

But presumably that falls under the category of "couldn't"?

 

 

Well, they can do the fouettes, but they look so grim and nervous, I would thing Siefried might be a bit put off.  She is supposed to be dazzling him so that he can't think straight.

 

10 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

In terms of fouettés I prefer seeing them as singles (as shown in the fab clip above) rather than with double and triple turns thrown in as these nearly always (to me) do not go with the music.  My only exception to this (so far in my ballet-watching career) would be Momoko Hirata who whips them out so fast that sometimes the music seems to have difficulty in keeping up with her!

  

When I saw Miyako Yoshida in the role, she went through the whole lot doing 3 singles and  a double in perfect time with the music. She was the best turner I ever saw.  Even Sylvie Guillem couldn't do them like she could!

 

Has anybody other than Plisetskaya do something else?  Didn't I read somewhere that Nadia Nerina did entrechats?  Entrechats six, if I remember correctly.  Now THAT I would love to see!

[Lizbie1]

8 minutes ago, Fonty said:

 

Has anybody other than Plisetskaya do something else?  Didn't I read somewhere that Nadia Nerina did entrechats?  Entrechats six, if I remember correctly.  Now THAT I would love to see!

 

Isn't the story that she did them to annoy Nureyev, who'd been up to some entrechat showboating of his own?  It must have been quite something, I wonder if it's ever been achieved since.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Lizbie1

[Fonty]

I think that is the story, yes.   Has anyone even tried since?  I don't think it should be compulsory to do fouettes, particularly if the individual isn't too comfortable with them.  It is just one step, after all.

 

  

[jm365]

Like Plisetskaya, Fonteyn didn't do the fouettes, just a very fast manege.  The story about Nerina is true - Nureyev did entrechat six during his performance as Albrecht in Act 2 of Giselle as he is dancing at Myrthe's command. 

[Douglas Allen]

2 hours ago, jm365 said:

Like Plisetskaya, Fonteyn didn't do the fouettes, just a very fast manege.  The story about Nerina is true - Nureyev did entrechat six during his performance as Albrecht in Act 2 of Giselle as he is dancing at Myrthe's command. 

 

Au contraire, Fonteyn almost always did perform the fouettes - they were singles and there were usually between 26 and 30 -  but her belief was that they should be performed because that was what the audience expected. It was only in the year or so before she stopped dancing the role that she sometimes substituted the chaine turns.  Fonteyn also always performed the fouettes when she did the Corsaire pas de deux. Sibley had dazzling fouettes but, in Swan Lake at least, always performed singles rather than throwing in doubles here and there. When her knee injury began first to affect her she sometimes substituted a double manege of chaine turns which were staggering because of their speed. As the knee injury became more significant (leading to her first retirement) she almost always did this.

[alison]

On 1/5/2018 at 00:31, CHazell2 said:

Also, I wanted to ask a hypothetical question - if Yoanna Sonnabend had not got her way over the designs, would the Dowell production had been so criticised on here?

 

I'm sure it wouldn't have been as much - but it was still too "MacMillan-ised".  Drunk cadets throwing up (okay, that wasn't in there at the beginning, I think) and Siegfried and Benno whacking guests at the ball with their swords have no place in a Classical ballet, in my view.

 

On 1/6/2018 at 17:57, WoodlandGladeFairy said:

I was and am still lukewarm on the Dowell 'Swan Lake', I didn't like it being updated to the 19th century, nor the Swan maidens not being in tutus, there is just something magical about the formations when done in tutus and that the production was just too busy. Also its a medieval fantasy tale, use medieval or cod-medieval designs and inspiration.

 

Yes, putting it into the rational Victorian age made no sense at all - it was too time-specific.  I like the Act I costumes, but thought some of the Act III ones were a bit stupid - and of course who can forget the moulting owl?  Plus there's the problem with not being able to see Siegfried's legs properly during the ball ...

 

On 1/5/2018 at 05:51, Jan McNulty said:

I saw the premiere of Makarova’s production for LFB/ENB in Bradford and absolutely loved it. In the white acts, Rothbart was a projection.

 

Also for ENB I saw the Russian-produced version with 4 interminable acts and a happy ending. I hated it!

 

The Makarova production ran Acts I and II, and III and IV together - and cut out most of the character dances because she didn't think the dancers could dance them well enough.  OTOH, it did have the Ashton Pas de Quatre, which is very tricky to dance, I believe.

Presumably by the Russian production you mean the Struchkova production which followed it, Jan?  I didn't remember it having a happy ending, but I think you're right.

 

Quote

I have loved Matthew Bourne’s production since I first saw it in 1995.

 

Me too.  Blown away by it the first - and the last - time I saw it.  Some of the middle ones weren't of quite that standard, though

 

On 1/8/2018 at 12:52, trog said:

I've seen many different Swan Lakes. The most obvious one is Mathew Bourne's treatment which is OK but I think that he created it with mostly men, largely to be different.

 

I think his reasons for creating it were more because he recognised the strength and power that's in real swans and wanted to reflect that, weren't they?

 

On 1/6/2018 at 23:55, Darlex said:

 In comparison to ENB's current proscenium production the sets, by Carl Toms, were substantial looking, with a grand, imposing staircase in Act 3. It possibly cost too much to tour and Schaufuss replaced it only 6 years later with Markarova's production. In the Toms designs, Odette had a proper tutu while the rest wore long skirts and I didn't mind, even though that was one of my gripes with the Dowell/Sonnabend production!

 

The Toms' sets were re-used for the Struchkova production, weren't they, although I don't know about the costumes.

 

Quote

The Guangdong Acrobatic Troupe of China's version of the ballet added frogs, monkeys and a camel to the story, which is performed with martial arts, acrobats and firey hoops

 

Not to mention the Swan standing on pointe on her partner's head

 

3 hours ago, Fonty said:

When I saw Miyako Yoshida in the role, she went through the whole lot doing 3 singles and  a double in perfect time with the music. She was the best turner I ever saw. 

 

I'd totally forgotten she did that.  Thanks for the reminder.  BTW, I'm perfectly happy seeing singles executed well rather than doubles done less well.  I remember thinking that when I saw Lauren Cuthbertson's debut.

[MAB]

For the record I've seen Fonteyn perform 32 and on one occasion 40, carrying on after the music stopped. 

[assoluta]

@Lizbie1

I know of at least four legendary Soviet ballerinas who substituted, usually piqué manège, in place of 32 fouettés because they were so uncertain of their ability to perform the latter. Two of them are still alive. I wouldn't mention by name any single one of them, but you brought up Plisetskaya, incorrectly believing she did not perform the prescribed fouettés in Swan Lake for some unclear "artistic reasons". This why I thought I better correct it now, before such a view spreads throughout the waves of the internet, with all the consequences. The only reason why all those brilliant ballerinas didn't perform the fouettés was always their inability to do them without a serious risk of "ending up in the wings", "falling into the orchestra pit", or some other disaster (incidentally, I am almost quoting one of those celebrated dancers). I know this as a fact. I verified its veracity with the people who are authorities on the history of Soviet ballet, who knew personally, sometimes closely, those dancers. Plisetskaya herself writes about it in her book, saying, in particular, that before the ballerina arrives at the fouettés in the coda of the Black Pas de Deux, she is already exhausted, and Plisetskaya, admitting she never had learned the proper technique, decided to substitute piqué manège to relieve herself from the fear of failure. She made her decision very early, likely before 1950, soon after her debut. Concerning your video "proof", be aware that film served propagandist goals to demonstrate how the "People's Artists" toil for the Working Classes of the "Happy and Friendly Family of Nations of the Soviet Union". In those Soviet films practically everything was staged: what looks like a live performance was usually shot without any audience, the audience shots and the applause were recorded separately. You can make any number of takes, you are filming scene by scene, and only some scenes, not the whole show, etc, etc. Maximova, who was a perfectionist, once held the crew for 9 hours before she finally was happy with just a single number. Those artists really wanted to look best when recorded, they knew that this is how they will be judged by the future generations.

[Jan McNulty]

That's really interesting Assoluta.

 

As a matter of interest how important are the fouettés in Swan Lake.  For me, I like to see them when they are well done but I'm not in the least bit bothered if the dancer does something else.  On the odd occasion when I have seen the dancer do something else it has never occurred to me to it may be that the dancer does not feel confident of her fouettés.  

[assoluta]

36 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

That's really interesting Assoluta.

 

As a matter of interest how important are the fouettés in Swan Lake.  For me, I like to see them when they are well done but I'm not in the least bit bothered if the dancer does something else.  On the odd occasion when I have seen the dancer do something else it has never occurred to me to it may be that the dancer does not feel confident of her fouettés.  

 

I allowed myself to highlight two key words in your post. This is in fact an interesting question. The 32 fouettés form a part of the prescribed choreographic text, so, in fact, any alteration, simplification, by a performing artist, is always an admission of weakness. I had an ambivalent feeling about them, in view how brutally vulgar or banal the whole part of Odile can be, with all those technical tours de force playing to the cheering crowd, which essentially destroys the tragedy of Prince and Odette, making out of it some sort of circus. One of the leading experts on the dramaturgy of choreography explained to me the meaning of the fouettés as the point of proclamation of the triumph over the Prince by the Evil Spirit, the culmination of a lengthy play of deception and ensnaring so, as such, the fouettés is a "must". It cannot be omitted.