Do you go to the Stage Door?

[Jan McNulty]

1 minute ago, oncnp said:

Why not? He's an adult and if it bothers him he should say so. 

I've seen him followed from the stage door  by two older women, on to the train who talked nonstop until they got off. He didn't seem too bothered 

 

Many years ago a chum knew a Viennese Nureyev "super fan" who travelled all over Europe to see him dance and who did follow him around.  Apparently he turned round and spoke to her once, asking her why she followed him and requesting that she desist.

[capybara]

Just a few observations - and, by the way, I wasn't just referring to Vadim, nor am I now for the most part:

- 'stalker' behaviour towards RB dancers (plural), including following home is, unfortunately, not unknown; nor is cyber-bullying;

- few ballet-goers can have any idea of how scary being on the receiving end of such behaviour must feel;

- it really is difficult to shake off a group (I have tried to little avail alongside a couple of female dancers);

- Nureyev had the right idea, of course, but he was 'one on one';

- if the "two women on the train" were who I think they are (not me 😂), I believe that they are known to Vadim

- please could we avoid seeming to 'blame' the recipients of unwelcome additional attention? They will be exhausted after their shows and will then have stood at the Stage Door for ages afterwards interacting graciously in all sorts of ways with fans. They have my sympathy.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by capybara
Addition

[Balletfanp]

8 minutes ago, capybara said:

Just a few observations - and, by the way, I wasn't just referring to Vadim, nor am I now for the most part:

- 'stalker' behaviour towards RB dancers (plural), including following home is, unfortunately, not unknown; nor is cyber-bullying;

- it really is difficult to shake off a group (I have tried to little avail alongside a couple of female dancers);

- Nureyev had the right idea, of course, but he was 'one on one';

- if the "two women on the train" were who I think they are (not me 😂), I believe that they are known to Vadim

- please could we avoid seeming to 'blame' the recipients of unwelcome additional attention? They will be exhausted after their shows and will then have stood at the Stage Door for ages afterwards interacting graciously in all sorts of ways with fans. They have my sympathy.

Quite. It’s one thing to be accompanied to the train (and onto it) by people the dancer knows and feels safe with; quite another to be followed by a person or persons unknown to them whose intentions they aren’t sure of.

 

I have heard rumours of various dancers having stalkers and of course Vadim has been quite open about his problems in that respect in his book. So being followed beyond the stage door environs by a crowd of fans who may seem perfectly unthreatening to us, may seem rather more worrying to a tired dancer wanting to get home. And telling them to go away may potentially accentuate a stalking situation.

[Rob S]

This article in today's Guardian tickled me and is similar to the ongoing conversation

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/oct/17/joao-cancelo-commits-cardinal-sin-in-age-of-smartphone-and-transactional-fandom

[Suffolkgal]

For what it’s worth - I started stage dooring in 1981 with a group of people who were long-term and valued supporters of the dancers and company and became dear friends of mine. Some struck up

true friendships with dancers over the years and I think because they never overstepped the bounds... stayed respectful, kept a physical and every other kind of distance. Left time for them to get to the tube or car park (used to be in bow street). Flower throws for debuts and retirements... i think most artists are happy to meet those who admire them as long as boundaries are observed. I have also always thought (seeing some people burbling on about their own lives and troubles) ... you’re waiting to see them! Not the other way around ...

[capybara]

3 minutes ago, Rob S said:

This article in today's Guardian tickled me and is similar to the ongoing conversation

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/oct/17/joao-cancelo-commits-cardinal-sin-in-age-of-smartphone-and-transactional-fandom

Thanks for that apposite link.

Much appreciated.

It worries me that so much of it has become recognisable behaviour among ballet fans.

After the first night, someone said to me (not at the Stage Door) that it felt as if the Instagram culture had arrived at the ROH.

 

[alison]

45 minutes ago, capybara said:

 

- 'stalker' behaviour towards RB dancers (plural), including following home is, unfortunately, not unknown

 

And has been for decades, unfortunately.  I remember being alerted, as we all were, to one case a couple of decades ago and rehearsing ways of getting her away from him if the occasion ever demanded it.

[San Perregrino]

1 hour ago, capybara said:

s if the Instagram culture had arrived at the ROH.

 

it definitely has. ‘posting to one’s account’ by people (of all ages) as they are descending the stairs at the intervals or after a performance whilst being oblivous to those around them or their environment is becoming a health and safety hazard.

[Missfrankiecat]

Frankly, I'm amazed the RB doesn't do something to protect its stars from such behaviour - like order a car to get them home at night.  No way should there be an expectation that they should manage the basics of their security at and from the stage door, when at the same time there is undoubtedly an expectation that they interact with fans at the stage door and other events in order to promote not only themselves but also the institution.  

I recall reading in Vadim's book that one reason he loves Japan is because the fans are so orderly and even reticent to make eye contact, so he feels more private.  Of course, he's grown up but it can be incredibly hard to shake people off politely who think they 'know' you but are complete strangers.

[capybara]

1 hour ago, PeterS said:

it definitely has. ‘posting to one’s account’ by people (of all ages) as they are descending the stairs at the intervals or after a performance whilst being oblivous to those around them or their environment is becoming a health and safety hazard.

Including, last night, reels filmed during the performance.

But I guess both our comments would sit better on the Audience Behaviour thread.

[Dawnstar]

5 hours ago, capybara said:

After the first night, someone said to me (not at the Stage Door) that it felt as if the Instagram culture had arrived at the ROH.

 

I sometimes feel awkward at stage doors because I can be the only person not asking for selfies with the performers. I just want to thank them for their performances.

[capybara]

21 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

I sometimes feel awkward at stage doors because I can be the only person not asking for selfies with the performers. I just want to thank them for their performances.

 

Me to @Dawnstar

[Suffolkgal]

I don’t do selfies but I did take a pic of mr b after Cinderella... have many of mr eagling and also mr mukhamedov and loads of lovely dancers of days past - some were sadly taken from us in the 80s. Overall I think it’s a jolly and supportive way to finish a lovely experience...

[Sophoife]

I'm with you @Dawnstar and @capybara - I hate selfies as I don't like myself in photos.

 

The only ballet ones I've ever asked for are Johan Kobborg after what was his last Des Grieux, in Sydney; Federico Bonelli after my first Mayerling, and Gary Avis because he's Gary Avis 😂

 

I was asked at a Richard E Grant signing session after An Evening With... to hand my phone to the publicity person so they could take a pic of me with him and I said, "No offence Mr Grant, but no. I didn't come for self-aggrandisement but to hear you speak and get my books signed. Thank you for your time." And I got a hug and a thank you! 

[Silver Capricorn]

12 hours ago, Missfrankiecat said:

Frankly, I'm amazed the RB doesn't do something to protect its stars from such behaviour - like order a car to get them home at night.  No way should there be an expectation that they should manage the basics of their security at and from the stage door, when at the same time there is undoubtedly an expectation that they interact with fans at the stage door and other events in order to promote not only themselves but also the institution.  

I recall reading in Vadim's book that one reason he loves Japan is because the fans are so orderly and even reticent to make eye contact, so he feels more private.  Of course, he's grown up but it can be incredibly hard to shake people off politely who think they 'know' you but are complete strangers.

In Japan, official signings are organized after the show, as far as I know.  On the other hand, 80% of the fans at ROH's stage door are visitors from Japan.  The artists do not seem to be bothered by the influx of their fans, just look at the Instagram accounts of Marianela or Vadim, where they share a lot of footage taken from their fans, often right at night immediately after the show, when you would think that  they will rest.

[Missfrankiecat]

4 hours ago, Silver Capricorn said:

In Japan, official signings are organized after the show, as far as I know.  On the other hand, 80% of the fans at ROH's stage door are visitors from Japan.  The artists do not seem to be bothered by the influx of their fans, just look at the Instagram accounts of Marianela or Vadim, where they share a lot of footage taken from their fans, often right at night immediately after the show, when you would think that  they will rest.

I have no doubt they enjoy seeing the pleasure of the fans and it must be pleasant for one's ego to see so many people keen enough to see you to stand out in all weathers to meet you.  I don't think the meet and greet at the stage door would be a problem for them - more the then having to fight their way through the crowd to get home, followed by fans as mentioned above.  If you intend using the tune there's no way to avoid the Floral Street melee!  

[Ondine]

I was searching for the story Frederick Ashton told about Anna Pavlova and her total performance at stage doors, certainly a choreographed appearance, with furs, flowers and, crucially, a waiting car to whisk her off and this thread popped up.

 

On 24/01/2014 at 06:02, Terpsichore said:

My mother often talked of the time she was taken to see Pavlova dance in Leeds. Pavlova was magical on stage.  Afterwards my mother glimpsed her as she left the theatre - a tired, very ordinary looking woman who no doubt wanted nothing more than to get to her hotel.

 

 

 

Perhaps Leeds wasn't a glamorous enough venue for the full works!

 

There are many fascinating tales of stage door encounters (and standing ovations) earlier in this thread, from way back in 2014.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Ondine

[capybara]

4 hours ago, Silver Capricorn said:

……just look at the Instagram accounts of Marianela or Vadim, where they share a lot of footage taken from their fans, often right at night immediately after the show, when you would think that  they will rest.

I think that looking at social media is part of the ‘winding down process’ for many dancers. I believe that Vadim refers to this in his book? He also reveals that what happens at the Stage Door is regarded as Act 4 by many in the Company 😲. It can certainly last as long or longer than an Act  in some cases.

[hephaistion03]

I am always surprised that so many dancers ( ranging from Artists to Soloists) when exiting the building  go un noticed by people waiting at the stage door.

 

A few weeks ago at the matinee dress rehearsal  for DQ featuring Yasmin N and Mathew B , whilst waiting at the stage door I witnessed only one person ask Yasmin / Mathew for their autographs/ selfie. Even Carlos A was only approached by a solitary admirer. 

 

Kevin O Hare , Monica Mason can walk out the stage door with no one talking to him / giving their best wishes

 

It appears that most people (  but not all )  just want autographs / selfies of the principals that have just danced that evening.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong: > ) 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by hephaistion03

[Amanda Liu]

13 minutes ago, hephaistion03 said:

I am always surprised that so many dancers ( ranging from Artists to Soloists) when exiting the building  go un noticed by people waiting at the stage door.

 

A few weeks ago at the matinee dress rehearsal  for DQ featuring Yasmin N and Mathew B , whilst waiting at the stage door I witnessed only one person ask Yasmin / Mathew for their autographs/ selfie. Even Carlos A was only approached by a solitary admirer. 

 

Kevin O Hare , Monica Mason can walk out the stage door with no one talking to him / giving their best wishes

 

It appears that most people (  but not all )  just want autographs / selfies of the principals that have just danced that evening.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong: > ) 

 

 

Maybe fans don’t normally go to stage door after rehearsals?

[capybara]

I don’t think that it is usual for audience members to go to the Stage Door after a rehearsal. So what happened then would not have been typical of the more usual post-performance scenario.

Dancers of lower ranks appreciate a word of appreciation too and I feel that they go ‘unrecognised’ (in both senses) too often. I’m not at the Stage Door much now but I certainly ‘have a word’ if I can. Artists I first spoke to when they joined the Company are now Principals or taking leading roles and following their careers has been a joy.

 

Sometimes one can tell from the body language of staff (including KOH**) that they would prefer not to be detained by supporters, but a quick cheery ‘thank you’ never comes amiss.

 

The requests for selfies goes back to the introduction of smartphones and behaviour around this at the Stage Door hasn’t always been as respectful as one would hope. However, as you suggest @hephaistion03, it has now reached manic proportions after some shows.

 

I don’t have any signatures or selfies. In common with @Dawnstar (above), I just want to express my gratitude for the performance I have seen.

 

(**Kevin O’Hare. We now seem to have the AROS abbreviation  (Anna Rose O’Sullivan) as well as KOH on this forum. She, by the way, was one of the dancers I first spoke to at the Stage Door when she joined the RB. And look at her now 🌸 ! )

 

Writing this as @Amanda Liu was posting!!!

[Sophoife]

2 hours ago, Missfrankiecat said:

I have no doubt they enjoy seeing the pleasure of the fans and it must be pleasant for one's ego to see so many people keen enough to see you to stand out in all weathers to meet you.  I don't think the meet and greet at the stage door would be a problem for them - more the then having to fight their way through the crowd to get home, followed by fans as mentioned above.  If you intend using the tune there's no way to avoid the Floral Street melee!  

 

 

Stuttgart Ballet has meet and signs in the foyer at interval. Costumed, made-up, the works. Certainly Mercutio, Lord Capulet, Tybalt...

 

Avoiding Floral Street in order to head for the Tube is easy if a dancer wants the Central, Northern, Piccadilly, Circle or District lines (Holborn, Temple, or Leicester Square). I made a close study of Tube lines earlier this year as a tourist 😉

[Balletfanp]

16 minutes ago, Sophoife said:

 

Avoiding Floral Street in order to head for the Tube is easy if a dancer wants the Central, Northern, Piccadilly, Circle or District lines (Holborn, Temple, or Leicester Square). I made a close study of Tube lines earlier this year as a tourist 😉

I’m not really sure how, as they have to emerge into Floral Street…. sure, they could exit elsewhere and make their escape but I think most Principal dancers would consider that a bit disrespectful to fans who are waiting to see them and wouldn’t want to do it.

 

I don’t think any dancer has a problem about meeting fans and chatting and taking selfies at the stage door - it’s when it continues beyond there that they might feel it goes a bit too far. And I’d agree with that.

[Jan McNulty]

30 minutes ago, Sophoife said:

 

 

Stuttgart Ballet has meet and signs in the foyer at interval. Costumed, made-up, the works. Certainly Mercutio, Lord Capulet, Tybalt...

 

Avoiding Floral Street in order to head for the Tube is easy if a dancer wants the Central, Northern, Piccadilly, Circle or District lines (Holborn, Temple, or Leicester Square). I made a close study of Tube lines earlier this year as a tourist 😉

 

Or even coming out on Bow Street and walking up to Long Acre if you are really in a hurry and want to use Covent Garden station.

[capybara]

40 minutes ago, Sophoife said:

Stuttgart Ballet has meet and signs in the foyer at interval. Costumed, made-up, the works. Certainly Mercutio, Lord Capulet, Tybalt...

 

Avoiding Floral Street in order to head for the Tube is easy if a dancer wants the Central, Northern, Piccadilly, Circle or District lines (Holborn, Temple, or Leicester Square). I made a close study of Tube lines earlier this year as a tourist 😉

I noticed that dancers who were still in full costume were ‘positioned’ for signings and photos in South Africa!!!! But not in the interval as you describe for Stuttgart @Sophoife. That sounds dire 😨.

 

RB dancers can, and many do, leave by other doors. However, that is hardly an option, is it, for those who have just ‘starred’ in a show and know that crowds are waiting for them at the official Stage Door.

The ROH lacks covered space to set up Japanese style tables near the usual performers’ exit but perhaps they could think about having a similar arrangement in the otherwise empty main entrance area where ‘crowd management’ would be relatively easy.

 

Was it OK for the dancers after the show last night?

 

(Writing at the same time as @Balletfanp and @Jan McNulty)

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by capybara

[Sophoife]

1 hour ago, capybara said:

But not in the interval as you describe for Stuttgart @Sophoife. That sounds dire 😨.

 

Well, it was Mercutio and Tybalt who were already dead but had to hang around for curtain calls, and at the first interval it was Lord Capulet who was one of the ballet masters (whom, amusingly, I had met at interval aka smoking break at ROH earlier in the week!), and Benvolio. Definitely not Romeo or Juliet!! Dancer acquaintance at that time with Stuttgart said they were all fine with it as everyone knew who was rostered and those who wanted could nick straight off home after (using the exit through the bar!).

[Rob S]

2 hours ago, Sophoife said:

 

 

Stuttgart Ballet has meet and signs in the foyer at interval. Costumed, made-up, the works. Certainly Mercutio, Lord Capulet, Tybalt...

 

 

 

I wonder if the ROH can do something similar for next season....'Meet some harlots in Floral Street at the interval' 

[zxDaveM]

10 minutes ago, Rob S said:

 

I wonder if the ROH can do something similar for next season....'Meet some harlots in Floral Street at the interval' 

 

just remember you won't be able to take them home with you afterwards!! 😉

 

[Sabine0308]

To answer the question: Yes, often. And I love it when the artists ask me if I want a selfie.😀

[Sophoife]

The way I look at it is, sure, it's really nice for us if a dancer comes out stage door and we can say thank you. After all I've been doing just that for over 50 years now!

 

However, no dancer should feel obliged to do so.

 

The idea that a principal (either in rank or role) should feel disrespectful if they, tired, choose to exit other than at stage door, is not one to which I subscribe.

[JennyTaylor]

Very rarely, usually because I have to dash to get the train home in the evening. I did go last Saturday because I had time between the 2 DonQ performances and it was Will Bracewell. There weren't many people there and it was all good I think.  When Will came out, he spoke to everyone who wanted to see him and even took a selfie with 2 women who wanted one (with their phone).  He then went off down the street with no-one following him down the road (yes, I agree - that would be unacceptable).  James Hay also was approached by a few and he was smiling and friendly too. 

 

I would be hesitant to approach someone who I didn't already know but the dancers don't seem to mind at all. If you think of what happens in Japan where literally hoards of people wait and the dancers patiently go down the whole queue which can take well over an hour, signing autographs and posing for selfies.  So, they are used to it in other countries and the numbers outside the ROH stage door (Marianela and Vadim excepting) seem to be manageable.   

 

As I can get to London, I like the Ballet Association meetings and annual dinner for meeting dancers . The dinner gives unprecedented access because so many RB dancers attend and they are perfectly happy to be approached in that environment.  You can also have in depth conversations during the meal, which you can't in the street at the Stage door. 

 

But, if you just want to say hello and well done on your performance, the Stage Door is a great way to do it. 

 

[Guest oncnp]

12 minutes ago, JennyTaylor said:

Very rarely, usually because I have to dash to get the train home in the evening.

 

Something like this might help National Theatre in London to pilot earlier start times | National Theatre | The Guardian

[Dawnstar]

52 minutes ago, JennyTaylor said:

I would be hesitant to approach someone who I didn't already know

 

By that logic I, and I imagine most of the audience, would never get to speak to any of the dancers. I can't afford to pay for any of the memberships that give additional access to dancers. The stage door is the only place I can ever speak to them & there has to be a first time for speaking to each dancer. Even the ones I've spoken to before I don't expect them to remember me, given the hundreds of people they must speak to.