Simply Adult Ballet: the progress of one adult dancer who took up ballet later in life

[LinMM]

The thing is ....now I know which studio you were trying to,book I cannot see that the RBS studio theatre is actually better than say Westminster Kingsway .....as a performance venue that is....apart from a better floor of course.

 

i think the RBS theatre studio is fine for demonstrations but it's not really a proper stage with wings etc and wasn't meant to be I don't think. 

As I said having workshops in that venue if affordable are fine ....I don't have a problem with this ....but just don't think it's that suitable for us as a performance venue.

Not sure what you mean about the Russian event next Autumn .....it's a long way off and haven't made a decision as yet as to whether I will go at that time and wouldn't make a decision anyway  until about 2-3 months beforehand......but for private discussion I think

[Michelle_Richer]

 

Hi Linda, you can see the curtains create very effective wings at the Linden, but I do agree it doesn't have a raised stage. One of the issues our group has with a couple of pieces we perform, is, we use virtually the whole company as a corps de ballet on the diagonal from one corner to another, this was true for "Behind the Veil" and to a large extent in Paquita too. There also has to sufficient room to accommodate the movements in the choreography. One should also remember some of smaller theatres don't have sprung floors, those we have to hire in from Harlequin and they are not cheap.

 

As for Workshops at RBS, that creates another difficulty, those can be seen as competition against RBS, and RBS are quite sensitive to that. Rehearsals on the other hand are fine, as we have place our sister company in their De Valois studio.

[LinMM]

I think LAB used the RBS for a couple of their workshops a few years back ....no doubt gave them some extra income etc.

If the studios happen to be free I don't think it would be a problem as its extra revenue for them 

Am not sure what you mean by workshops can be seen as competition against the RBS ....amateur groups are no threat to them unless you mean competition for the studio space ....well I cannot see this arising as its their space first and foremost ..so obviously can only let others use it when it's convenient to them ....so it's not going to be free that often in the end I think. 

I seem to remember the wings are quite shallow .....and not sure how easy it is to get round the back which we often seem to have to do

 

But those are just practical considerations. I still wouldn't be happy to perform our show there just because it is the Royal Ballet School who are training to be professionals and closely linked to the ROH etc  In that way I would feel uncomfortable about it as an amateur dancer.

 

 

[Colman]

Why on earth would that make you uncomfortable?

[LinMM]

I'm not sure Colman ....because it's a full on performance in costume and makeup etc it would somehow feel slightly pretentious to put it on at the RBS!! 

I wouldn't have a problem doing a workshop there though....work in progress as such ....and the studios are lovely etc etc ....it's just the idea of a show somehow taking it into a venue so associated with professional dancers.

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi Linda isn't it pretentious wherever you do it, weather its in costume and makeup or not. Some pieces are done better in costume as sometimes the costume formes part of a gorgeous port de bra.

For me dancing on hallowed ground is a bit special and something to be sort and savoured when the opportunity presents its self .

I really hope the Vagaonva event comes off next year, hollowed ground or not.

Adrian and I are in Tarbet Hotel on the banks of Loch Lomond on our way to Ballet West. Friday I did do two major changes to our choreography although part of me said no, I'm glad now I have done it, it has made two of the variations very much nicer and lengthened one by at least half a minute. I just hope I can deliver them next week as they are not well practiced, nothing like living on the edge of your seat to know you are alive.

[LinMM]

No Michelle it isn't pretentious to do it anywhere!.

its like any amateur artistic venture ....amateur dramatics, amateur opera companies, etc it's a group of people who love doing something but are not at a Professional standard (though occasionally some nearly are) 

Their main audience is usually family and friends and a few locals who have seen the event advertised and enjoy those things too and everyone knows that's it's an amateur production but with everyone giving it their absolutely best effort!! 

Sometimes amatuer productions can be quite moving because of this.

There is nothing pretentious about it at all.

However for me.....and it may just be a quirk of my personality ...I feel that the whole area around Floral Street and the ROH is the territory of Professional dancers and singers ......so would feel very sensitive about our audience coming to see us perform at the RBS in Floral Street or the Clore Theatre in the ROH!! Because it is the preserve of the Professionals ....and we are not...just that really.

 

 

 

[Anna C]

Would the Lilian Baylis studio at Sadlers' be suitable at all? 

[LinMM]

Hi Anna yes probably....as this theatre has been used by amateur companies as well as smaller professional companies and localish Dance school performances too. 

Im sure it might be just me who has a thing about the ROH

After all Sadlers Wells is also a professional performance venue but the Bayliss Theatre has a Community feel about it so am sure is more suitable than the Clore Theatre for example ....for us.

I only write this here because Michelle and I have talked about this in person and we agree to disagree on it!! 

 

I thought the the deal with the Vaganova school ....if it comes off....was that we would be watching some classes....great ...and we would have a couple of classes to attend especially aimed at us (so not with the Vaganova students) 

Thats an invited workshop type situation so absolutely fine......a bit like some of our members attending the Danish Ballet Summer school  a couple of weeks ago.

[Michelle_Richer]

What you describe is what I thought we were going to do until I was asked to look at the feasibility of the Finland trip, as it turned out it was the week after our Summer show, so it was a non-starter. Like all these things, I use these contacts to help build up a relationship, which consequently allows you to ask and sometimes get things that are not commonly available. I’ve certainly had that sort of relationship with RBS and ROH over the last 3-4 years, and it’s also useful to know when policies change as they often do.

 

But coming back to the Finland trip, the offer did in-fact include attending morning class with the Vaganova teachers and in their words “model students from Vaganova” too. We were also expected to receive tuition from our own teacher too. At no point did we discuss there end of course Gala other than attending it as a member of the audience.

 

Since then there have been two other date offers that we are not able to take up, however once they have run their new intensive in Saint Petersburg in October, then I will be talking to them again to explore the possibilities with their association with Vaganova.

 

But coming back to the “Hallowed” ground thing, one could argue, I’m trespassing on hallowed ground this week with Ballet West, as its a professional school, that is there to turn out professional dancers.

 

 

As for Anna’s comment: The Lillian Baylis Theatre at Sadler’s, it’s a really nice theatre, I’ve already performed there as illustrated, but its extremely expensive.

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Michelle_Richer

[2dancersmum]

I agree with you Linn - its not pretentious to put on an amateur performance, - children or adults alike put on amateur performances all over the country and they are not pretending to be something they are not. The paying audience knows it is going to be a amateur performance, whether they be parents and friends or ballet /theatre lovers. Our local ballet school productions always has about 30 people per performance who are nothing to do with the school and never haver been.

 

I get your 'quirk of personality ' too. If it is a theatre where mostly professional dancers or those in training to be professional perform, then I too would feel a little uncomfortable performing there as an adult amateur group.

 

I don't think visiting a school like Ballet West is trespassing on hallowed ground at all, not unless you are performing there and expecting audiences to pay to watch you perform. Taking class is  (or having private tuition) completely different to attracting a paying audience.

 

theatre wise - The Shaw Theatre in London is used by several vocational schools for agent showcases. I don't know how that would compare on size or price for what you require.

[LinMM]

Many years ago I used to perform at the Commonwealth Theatre that used to be in Kensington High Street with Chelsea Ballet and that was a lovely theatre....alas no more.

The Bloomsbury Theatre (as part of the University of London)  is another great little venue but this is now far too costly for our group since its refurb.

In July we performed at the Westminster Kingsway College Theatre near Kings Cross and that served us really well but is booked in December! 

So we are on the hunt just now.

The Rambert school has quite a good performance studio but it is (in my view) a bit of a trek for most of us and probably the audience too! And a nightmare if any rugby on!

Hopefully we will find somewhere soon.

Yes Ballet West is a training school and in a really wonderful location but not quite as sensitive as Floral Street!

 

[Jan McNulty]

What audience capacity are you looking for in the theatre?

[Anna C]

The Platform Theatre near Kings Cross might be suitable:  http://www.arts.ac.uk/media/arts/colleges/csm/documents/CSM-Venue-Hire-Brochure-November-2015.pdf

[LinMM]

Okay first audience capacity

We usually do two performances so our group doesnt really need much more than 100-150 seats in the theatre. So can be quite a small space.

 

(when I was with LAB that was a much bigger group of people so obviously needed more audience capacity) 

But there is a balance to be struck between audience capacity and size of stage. 

In one venue we performed choreography and groupings were having to be changed on the day of performance because the stage was SO small!! 

The other thing with community type theatres is often the floor .....they're not really set up for Dance specifically....so sometimes we have to buy a floor in which all adds to the costs!! 

So finding an IDEAL Space is not as easy as you would think.

I thought the Westminster Kingsway College came pretty close.....good size stage....partly sprung floor...good largish rehearsal studio....just about the right size audience capacity ....reasonable size changing rooms....and a few nice quiet spaces to wander off to if required!! AND a reasonable price!!

 

Thanks very much for the above info Anna C ......this is in that area behind Kings Cross I think ....which I still haven't explored yet!! (My partner keeps on asking me to try out a restaurant there...the Granary...before the main chef there leaves which must be imminent now!!) 

 

I will ask Michelle if she has looked at this space .....I'm sure she will have...it being near Kings Cross ....but if not may well be worth looking into...but my guess is it will be too expensive ...just a hunch!!

I think we were looking at Toynbee Hall ....however they are undergoing some refurbishment etc at the moment ....so not sure exactly what facilities they are offering right now.

 

 

 

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi 2Dancersmun and Anna C

Thank you for your Theatre suggestions, Lin text me just before I was to leave my hotel for Ballet West this evening for an Adult Body Conditioning class, the only class running this week.

 

As for the Shaw Theatre, its capacity (400) is well above what we require, and is likely to be too expensive.

                                                                                        

The Platform Theatre on the other hand didn’t appear on my radar, so I have email them and will probably visit them next Tuesday when I’m back in London.

[Michelle_Richer]

We are 3 days into our Ballet West one-to-one intensive, although Adrian is not dancing rep (my PDD partner) on days 2 and 3, he is attending morning barre warm-up class and he’s now starting to enjoy it, this morning he was like a dog with two tails, he was absolutely chuffed when Gillian our teacher said she gave him two gold stars, one for his port de bra, and the other for being pulled up, a wonderful improvement over three days. Well done Adrian.

 

She is a really lovely caring and very helpful teacher; I have lots of really useful feedback on the rep we have been dancing, most of which we can take on board and correct during our stay, and some which will need further work.

                                                                                       

Tomorrow is the Black Swan PDD and female solo, Adrian and I have been running through it a couple of times last thing each day so he becomes really familiar with the musical cues and timing as well as orientation of working in the studio assigned to us..

 

  

[Michelle_Richer]

The Platform Theatre turned out to be a no-no, as our dates are still in term time, even though they are Saturdays, a pity as it looked promising.

 

Ballet West: What can I say but absolutely brilliant, but even more so this time, both Adrian and I have learnt so much, it will take a few weeks yet to soak all the feedback up and implement it. However I must confess I think we put far too much in the plan for this year, as there was insufficient time to fully implement all the wonderful feedback we received while we were there. It was also nice to receive the positive's too, as Gillian our coach was complementary on my choreography and musicality but I quite rightly took a pasting on technique too. This may sound silly, but the most striking thing I will always remember from last week was simply standing in prep. As it was we were about to do the Black Swan PDD where we both set off from opposite corners, for me it was the upstage right corner, well almost, which is not usual for most variation. I could see I was leaning forward a little in the mirror, I had also noticed this on some performance photo’s too, but put it down to the fact I’m big busted. Gillian asked if my back leg was in B+ or Strait, I said “I use strait if Im in a classical tutu”, which I was,  I was told to stretch that back leg, then more, and then more again, even though I could sense it, but not necessarily feel it. Then it was shoulder’ s back, and a little repositioning of the arm followed by head up, which felt a little like an upper back bend. Then I looked in the mirror, “Oh my God”, what a transformation, its a ballerina , I couldn’t believe it, the legs looked longer, I certainly looked taller and I really had presence. There were lots of other little corrections too but essentially there was nothing I couldn’t do. Then came her pet phase, "is this one in attitude Michelle", meaning its not quite strait enough even though it felt so.

Then it was down to adding the character in, flirting with the audience on the walk on, wowing Siegfried to his face but showing a little deceit towards the audience, just loved it.

 

All the reprogramming of stretching my legs went a bit haywire once while I was going through the Russian Dance from Swan Lake, there is a sequence of an arabesque followed by brushing the front leg up and the following the opposite arm down it, however as my brain was heavily focused on stretching the back leg, I was finding what should be my front leg was in fact pointed at the back, Grrr I had to stop over-concentration.

 

Although we had danced through all 8 pieces we had taken up there, we only performed the PDD’s with the associated solo’s on the Friday, mainly because there wasn’t sufficient time to incorporate all the feedback which we had documented and also we wanted to leave early for Liverpool as we had hoped to get there before darkness as heavy rain was forecast, we had heavy rain all week.

 

Originally I had planned to start on the new material immediately I got back home, but was going to give Adrian a two month break from ballet, which I know he was looking forward too. However even Adrian agreed we must keep running with these pieces until we happy they as best as we can get them by incorporating the corrections. Monday morning I rang up to rebook my Friday 2 hour slot at my local hall , as I had previously cancelled it for Adrian’s break, unfortunately it had been booked by someone for the whole day, possibly a wedding. However I did manage to get a studio for hour and a half at Sleaford between 7pm and 8.30pm so hopefully we can keep up the momentum.

 

Summer break is almost over from the majority of my ballet schools, so I still need to press on with the studio extension, 2 more tons of road-stone have completed the lower foundation. Hopefully compacting this weekend before we can start on the upper foundation incorporating the floor, but the end is in sight .

 

 

 

[MayKwok]

Check out the Watermans Art Centre in Brentford. It's a little bit of way out, the stage is not massive, but it was a nice little theatre.

 

https://www.watermans.org.uk/hire/theatre/

[Pas de Quatre]

Wac Arts theatre hire

 

Here is a link to a small theatre which might suit you.  I was in North London a couple of weeks ago and walked past this place.  It is just a short distance (2 mins) from Belsize Park tube station.

[LinMM]

As it happens on Tuesday evening someone in our group who had recently performed at Watermans in Brentford gave Michelle the details and also of another theatre not far from the Rambert School. 

I think there is also the Parkshott Community Theatre in Richmond maybe worth a look at as its near the station.

I don't know Wac Arts theatre but that sounds like definitely one to look into 

Many thanks for all these suggestions 

I went to try and see the Platform theatre last week and was just totally amazed at ALL the development up behind Kings Cross station 

Its all really nice up there now and don't know why it's taken me so long to discover it.

Too late to go to the Granary restaurant though ....it's now closed ....which is a shame ....not sure what is going in its place.

[Michelle_Richer]

Thank you for the suggestions everyone.

 

Both Waterman’s and Parkshott are already booked on the date(s) we require.

 

WacAts looks nice, but I think its likely to be too expensive when we add the extras in like changing rooms, studios, technician support, security and possibly front of house staff.

 

 I see from WacArts many things are classed as extras and are charged for separately, like PA system , Lighting rig, projector and screen. I will drop them a detailed requirements spec tomorrow and see what costing come back, assuming they have availability.

[Michelle_Richer]

Oh poo Wac Arts is out too, main hall fully booked, small hall is available but far too small. Thanks Pas de Quatre, it was worth a try.

[LinMM]

I'm beginning to think we should just do the show in January instead!!

 

Im pretty sure there will be more theatre space available then as  PRE Christmas is just such a popular time for putting on various types of shows and choirs and so on. Seriously there's no reason why we couldn't delay it for three to four weeks. 

A newish year show? And people would generally be less busy then as well.

It could be that for a small group such as ours as prices seem to be going up and up we might have to radically rethink performance dates.

 

 

[TYR]

Off topic, but who here's done the Intermediate and/or IF exam as an adult?

[Kate_N]

There was a separate thread about this (just as well, as specific queries tend to get a bit lost on this thread).

 

Intermediate Foundation as an adult?

 

 

[Michelle_Richer]

On ‎25‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 11:14, LinMM said:

I'm beginning to think we should just do the show in January instead!!

 

Im pretty sure there will be more theatre space available then as  PRE Christmas is just such a popular time for putting on various types of shows and choirs and so on. Seriously there's no reason why we couldn't delay it for three to four weeks. 

A newish year show? And people would generally be less busy then as well.

It could be that for a small group such as ours as prices seem to be going up and up we might have to radically rethink performance dates.

 

 

Hi Linda

 

There is no need to worry, it’s virtually sorted, and we will be performing the Christmas show.

 

Incidentally I have booked the Ballet Boot-Camp with Desiree Ballantyne at Sadler’s for next Sunday, I contacted Desiree for the rep,  its La Bayadere Shades for the Group piece, but she gave me the shades third variation as the solo piece, but our AD seems to think she’s teaching Lylac Fairy, so I will have to recheck.

 

When she mention La Bayadere I was hoping it may be Gamzatti’s variation which is also used in some versions of Le Corsaire. This was on of the solo’s I took up to Ballet West last year. I think Gamzatti's variation is being used by the lucky dancers attending The Ballet Retreat.

[Nicola H]

You  are correct  about  La Bayadere and The Ballet Retreat, the female rep was Gamzatti's  variation  and the male rep was the Coda  ... 

TBR is an  absolutely fabulous event ,   biggest problem that Hannah and David have  is finding Spaces (  such  a lovely  lovely  experience to  basically have the  run of Northern's  fabulous Building  this weekend ) and also  Hannah's timetable given her  current post and roles ... 

A generally held  sentiment among those who hae attended  TBR is that   more often  would be good,  and  even  some longer events .... 

[LinMM]

Absolutely love Northern Ballet studios such a well designed building best I've attended so far .....including London studios ....and have attended David's classes at Central before when I first returned to ballet a few years back now and they were just what I needed .....worked hard but with great humour he is a lovely teacher for Adult ballet. I would like to have a go at one of these retreats before it gets too late!! So may give it a priority next year.

Michelle am not up to date on arrangements for the performance ( little wifi cover where I am at the moment) I didn't realise it had nearly been sorted. 

[Nicola H]

12 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Absolutely love Northern Ballet studios such a well designed building best I've attended so far .....including London studios ....and have attended David's classes at Central before when I first returned to ballet a few years back now and they were just what I needed .....worked hard but with great humour he is a lovely teacher for Adult ballet. I would like to have a go at one of these retreats before it gets too late!! So may give it a priority next year.

Michelle am not up to date on arrangements for the performance ( little wifi cover where I am at the moment) I didn't realise it had nearly been sorted. 

Lin  absolutely 

I thought  we had fun in class where I usually  take  class,  but  David  takes it to another level, especially  with the  advantage of a  real pianist  for class.

 watch  TBR's website for  new dates as  they  are released. 

the Northern Ballet building is fabulous  -   a 30 *15 metre studio  space on the ground floor   -  how to feel  like you haveplenty of space   even if there are  nearly 50 people in class  ( slightly fewer number of people  on the  retreat as  participants, but   warm ups/ cool down , morning class and  the Mystery taster  ( Amaury Lebrun taking a class on Gaga Technique )  had some of the 'staff' as participants ...  also  throws a  whole  new perspective into  turning and  jetes  as part of centre work in class  ...  i don;t think many people  who attended  this August's TBR will forget   pose turn , pose turn , chaine-chaine-chaine-chaine,  pose turn, pose turn  chaine-chaine-chaine-chaine in a hurry  and still having  space  at the end of the studio  to  run off ...  I don't think the  ladies  ( barring  our 'honorary boy'  Liz)  got  to see the other  studios   but they are 15 *15 m  with  high ceilings  ( the 'boys' got  to see those as we  used one for one of our rep  sessions  ... 

[TYR]

1 hour ago, mph said:

pose turn , pose turn , chaine-chaine-chaine-chaine,  pose turn, pose turn  chaine-chaine-chaine-chaine

 

Sweet!

[Michelle_Richer]

Hi mph

 

I see from your TBR you had a pianist, otherwise I was a little curious as to how you managed the Port de Bras / change of weight timing at the commencement of the Gamzatti variation before the music actually started.

 

 

For me I found some music which had a bit of a preamble for the port de bras before it hit the strong note with the down-stage arm to fifth to launch the variation proper.

 

I see you mentioned turning sequence as part of the centre work in class: “pose turn , pose turn , chaine-chaine-chaine-chaine,  pose turn, pose turn  chaine-chaine-chaine-chaine”, was this used later in the variation before the two phrases that use grand jete’s, as it sounds very much like it, except the variation uses double pose’s, for me it was single double before the chaines.

 

I too know the studios at Quarry Hill,  for several months before the end of term show, I would do class and rehearsal at Northern Ballet,  travel down to London and do a one-to-one rep class at Shoreditch with the lady who is now  Artistic Director of the Alive Ballet Company that LinMM and I are members, then go on to do two classes with English National Ballet that evening, and finally getting home around 1am the following morning. As part of TBR did you get to perform your variation in the Stanley and Audrey Burton Theatre?

 

I understand it when you say “biggest problem that Hannah and David have  is finding Spaces”, I guess that must be widespread as I spend an awful lot of time checking out studios and theatre for my artistic director and similarly studio’s for myself as I regularly do up to 10 hiring’s a week for myself.

 

Hi LinMM

You won’t be up to date as nothing has been released, I know you know I work closely with our AD and she emailed me as she knows I was continuing the theatre search, and that was becoming pointless as things were coming together. I only told you as I know you were getting quite worried and upset about it.

 

If you are going to Leeds in early December, there is an over 55 rep workshop on the stage of Leeds grand theatre stage on the 7^th December.

 

 

 

 

[Nicola H]

the pose turns and chaines were in  the daily class , however  it as there as it is in the gamazatti variation ...    but  you'll have to ask the ladies about that as i was doing the  male rep.  (  which was the Coda so loads of assembles) 

 

in terms of finding spaces  - it's finding spaces that match up to  using   Northern  or  Rambert  and also where there is the space to spread out ...

TBR had free  run of  the Northern Building  builiding at the weekend  * there was something  associaty  or CATy going on upstairs on Saturday ,  but  otherwise it was 'us'  (as  no NB company class on saturday  as they had 'broken up for their  break )  which  was really lovely and adds to the atmosphere  -   it;s the closest  recreational dancers  like me will get ot the 'feel' of vocational   training or  company life   ...  ( a  number of us have said  the ideal amped up  version of the ballet retreat would be a full week , ideally with everyone staying in acommodation  and  finishing with some kind of performance  , even if it was just for friends and  rellies )

Edited August 31, 2017 by mph