LinMM Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Honestly though Michelle when you make a statement like : what makes you think I'd compare my pirouettes to professionals I'd never set my goals so low .....I just don't know whether you're just really winding everyone up!! And it's all tongue in cheek!! So it's Michelle the worlds best pirouetter how do you all compare Seriously I'll have a think about the jete question.......at least back down to planet Earth. Just off to the allotment .....got some digging to do and moans of but what about my poor foot have fallen on deaf ears unfortunately! I will speak to Tom on Wednesday about what to do about LAB performance ........I could come and make some notes on the choreography and see what date he will need a definite decision by......but everything is up,in the air at the mo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Hi Lin The bit about the professionals was perhaps a bit of a windup after hearing the elitist comments about those poor beginners who had plucked up courage to come to class be it “intermediate” or “Elementary”. As for the scene containing the pirouettes that is very real and I believe achievable, the issue is not the triple pirouette, but absorbing the energy in stopping a fast triple turn pirouette otherwise that momentum will be transferred into the prep of the next and take it off balance, I’ve been there and done it using doubles, it is very dangerous, so I do take on board Balleteacher Health and Safety comments. A suitably sprung floor also has to be found at one of the London studios with the right slip coefficient, any old floor will not do. The training will also be carried out under the guidance of my professional coach, but I do mean to do it, and without good technique it simple will not be achievable, certainly not 5 in line. Let me know what your outcome is with LAB, I have know other during injury to just observe the class to keep abreast of what’s going on, but we are at a very critical point now as most of the teaching has been done its now down to polishing. Edited May 12, 2014 by Michelle_Richer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletfanatic Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hi Lin The bit about the professionals was perhaps a bit of a windup after hearing the elitist comments about those poor beginners who had plucked up courage to come to class be it “intermediate” or “Elementary”. As for the scene containing the pirouettes that is very real and I believe achievable, the issue is not the triple pirouette, but absorbing the energy in stopping a fast triple turn pirouette otherwise that momentum will be transferred into the prep of the next and take it off balance, I’ve been there and done it using doubles, it is very dangerous, so I do take on board Balleteacher Health and Safety comments. A suitably sprung floor also has to be found at one of the London studios with the right slip coefficient, any old floor will not do. The training will also be carried out under the guidance of my professional coach, but I do mean to do it, and without good technique it simple will not be achievable, certainly not 5 in line. Let me know what your outcome is with LAB, I have know other during injury to just observe the class to keep abreast of what’s going on, but we are at a very critical point now as most of the teaching has been done its now down to polishing. Michelle no one is discouraging adult beginners from starting ballet, quite the reverse. We are just saying it's detrimental to them and other dancers if they go into a class that is way too difficult for them. That is not elitist, that's a matter of common sense and health and safety. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpsichore Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Michelle no one is discouraging adult beginners from starting ballet, quite the reverse. We are just saying it's detrimental to them and other dancers if they go into a class that is way too difficult for them. That is not elitist, that's a matter of common sense and health and safety. I agree with you when classes are advertised as "intermediate" and there are easier classes available in the same school or nearby as is the case in your neighbourhood. I am glad to say that is also the case in Leeds where Northern Ballet Academy offers excellent classes for students of all levels of ability and at every age. I attend the beginners and intermediate over 55 class and those classes suit me very well indeed. l also attend the class in Huddersfield where I took my first lesson in 55 years which I hated at first but now enjoy tremendously. The reason I can attend the over 55 classes in Leeds is that I am self employed and can juggle my commitments. I also have a car which enables me to travel some distance. Unfortunately, not everybody is in that happy position. In the smaller former mill towns of the West Riding which have suffered badly from the decline of manufacturing there is not enough demand for separate beginners and intermediate classes. The best that dance schools and teachers can offer are all age mixed ability classes. The problem with those is that they become de facto intermediate classes in time whatever the official policy of the school or wishes of the teacher. That is because the same group of students nearly all of who have known each other for years come back week after week and to be fair they develop some expertise over time. When a beginner enters the class he or she requires more of the teacher's time with the result that the regulars get less. I am the only one left of the all age and mixed ability class that I joined just before Christmas 2012. I stayed on because I am a stubborn North Countrywoman in the Norah Battye and Ena Sharples mould and was determined to hold my ground, All the other students have moved on and I have no idea where. However if they want to progress at ballet they could also go to Leeds where there are excellent open classes for all ages and all levels of ability in the evenings as well as the day. Students of different ages and abilities have replaced those who have left and we now have a genuine all age, all ability class which welcomes and encourages newcomers. We even have a young gentleman in our class and he is very good indeed. Our class is now pretty representative of our community. We meet socially for a laugh and have a great time. I think that is a good thing - don't you. Edited May 13, 2014 by terpsichore 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Sugar Plum Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hi Dancer Sugar Plum Why do you feel bullied?, if any should, then possibly I should, but as I said its like water off a ducks anyway please don't go a I love our exchanges. xx If you have a re-read through your post #1010 I hope you can see/feel that you are belittling and putting down my attempt to share my experience and contribute to the discussion here. If you don't see it as bullying or not respecting someone else's opinion, I can only assume you would say this because you would like to find someone for a 'tussle'. However, I don't want to 'tussle' with anyone, which is why I am not keen to add further comments to this thread after this post. I am commenting on this forum because I want to share my experience and learn from other dancers and teachers. Also, it's nice to share a love of ballet with other people. I was uncomfortable with your phrase 'or do you need perhaps the borrow of my teachers blind dog', which you've used twice to address me now. I find this insulting and upsetting. What if I said someone close to me had visual problems? What if I said I had visual problems? I feel you're using blindness and visual problems as an insult and I don't find that acceptable. The lines quoted above imply that you feel bullied. If you believe people on this forum, such as myself, are bullying you by showing concern about doing work that could be too advanced for your current level, or showing concern for you when you had an injury, I'm afraid I don't understand your definition of 'bullying'. In a recent post, you claim that it is 'elitist' to not to want beginners doing elementary or intermediate classes. As some members have commented already, it is not elitist, it is about being worried for their safety and ensuring that those dancers get a good grasp of the basics before moving on to the next level. It's also about people doing the most appropriate class level so that everyone in class gets the most out of their class. This is what helps progress, be the dancer a child, teenager or adult. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I was uncomfortable with your phrase 'or do you need perhaps the borrow of my teachers blind dog', which you've used twice to address me now. I find this insulting and upsetting. What if I said someone close to me had visual problems? What if I said I had visual problems? I feel you're using blindness and visual problems as an insult and I don't find that acceptable. I agree with Dancer Sugar Plum about the comment above. It was uncalled for Michelle, and please, cease from responding to people in this manner. This is a place for healthy discussion and debate - we don't always agree with eachother but insults are uncalled for - the AUP clearly states that posters should be respectful towards eachother. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Back to that jete. I think Michelle you mean the sort of jete where you do step jete on its own or followed by another step in the grand allegro section. One of the problems that can occur in this is the extension of the leg.....after the swish.....as into a grand battement. One has to aim to jump forward and sort of up and over the extended leg and you have to avoid bringing this extended leg back towards the body ......as can often occur with more beginners etc.....but take the body with you towards the leg. You can practice this at the barre by extending the leg in a tendu behind you swish it through as in a grand battement and then jump as far forward as you can towards the leg. This type of jete has the quality of up and over rather than the more arrow like faster moving split jete. A soaring movement if you can create it!! A lot to aim for anyway. What do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi Lin it’s not a simple up and over type, I already do that with a piece of rep where I have to land with the leading leg on demi-pointe. Admittedly it’s a relatively small grand jete in terms of its length, but that all that is required for that piece. The type I am talking about is the suspended splits type, I believe thats more about confidence or mind over matter. In preparation for this, I can open out reasonable well on a trampoline as I have additional height which gives me a little more confidence. I can take it almost as far as I can if doing sliding splits at the barre, because I can take it to the point where my legs open sufficiently to just feel an old injury, a limit for the time being I will not go beyond. However when doing a grand jete for real, my body just won’t allow itself to go into almost splits even though I know my legs can do it, its almost like a protection instinct that takes over, particularly with the back leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Well you have to be able to get enough height off the ground to fit in a split jete which is very difficult as you get older!! As you get past the age of about 55 the tendons and ligaments start to lose any elasticity they may once have had so you sort of lose your "bounce" so to speak. So it's harder to get that push off from the ground to create enough space for the jete. You can still do a jete but it doesn't have to be a split jete type.......as for me this type needs both legs extending at about 90 which is very hard to do even when you still have your bounce!! Ive never heard of a jete which lands on demi pointe.......sounds painful .......which choreography is this from? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Your description of the one-way system in Sheffield made me laugh! The time before last (5 or 6 years ago) that I drove from Liverpool to Sheffield with a friend we were aiming for the car park on Arundel Gate. Well the one-way system had changed since last we were there and we wanted to turn right but couldn't. After 3 times round the block(!) there was a car in front of us that carried straight on down a block-paved street that we had thought pedestrianised. We decided to follow him and could then turn right to get to the carpark. Until last March, since that day, I then got the train to Sheffield! Last March I got an email from my hotel saying that there was free parking for hotel guests in Arundel Gate during March. I decided to drive. The satnav in my current car took me M62, M1 and then in to the city. It was so much easier and only 15 miles further than Snake Pass. The extra 30 miles on the round trip was SOOO worth it for the lack of stress! Sorry to be o/t! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Lin, how can one slow down a jete enough to land en demi? I can't picture it. We were doing jetes as part of grand allegro last night. I am happy to admit that I am not the world's greatest dancer and was pretty bad but none of the other dancers, some of whom are excellent, landed in the way Michelle describes, and nor did our terrific male stand in teacher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Is it any of these? There is also a Grand Allegro video in the same series but all of those seem to land normally; through the foot but not staying on demi. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Michelle, perhaps you could post the link to the video showing what you call "a grande jete landing on demi-pointe", so we can all see what you are talking about? thank you. Edited May 14, 2014 by mimi66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Ooh, what a lovely neat, lithe dancer, Spanner! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Akane Takada...Fedelico Bonelli's DW... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Akane Takada...Fedelico Bonelli's DW... ??? Bonelli is married to Hikaru Kobayashi. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimi66 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Oh, sorry! I got muddled up! I stand corrected. Thank you, bangorballetboy. Edited May 14, 2014 by mimi66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 First I don't know who that dancer is in the video but what beautiful allegro work!! Her soubre saute is to die for!! Maybe Michelle it just appears that the dancer in your video is landing on demi .......as they come down through the foot or are they perhaps landing the jete normally.......through the foot and doing a quick releve onto demi?? Hallo Red hope you will continue to post Yes it is tough when you first go back after a long gap and beginners level is absolutely essential I think if the gap has been more than ten years. If for no other reason than risk of injury for newly regenerating muscles!!! I do a lovely Russian Vaganova style class now on a Tuesday (well not at the moment as am injured) but the teacher of that class who also takes a lower level class in another town nearby which I used to attend made me wait 8 months before being able to join her next class up......so wise of her!! And before a final decision was made I sat and watched the class to make sure I thought I could cope as well as she thought I might!! Sorry just looking back is that dancer Akane Takada then S and P? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangorballetboy Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Sorry just looking back is that dancer Akane Takada then S and P? Indeedy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Landing a jump on a straight leg sounds a recipe for disaster and injury to me, surely Michelle means land on plié and then up to Demi pointe?? My legs don't 'do' splits on the ground let alone in the air but I do enjoy the big jumps 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Well I wish my jumps were just half as good as hers.....she's lovely!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Gorgeous, isn't she. I could watch her all day. That's a fabulous series of videos, incidentally, if you have a few minutes. Romany Pajdak dances in several of them and she's beautiful to watch too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Here's the Grand Allegro video: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi Girls I will post the link but I cant right now as I'm stuck for time, its in Le Corsair. The ballerina does not land on demi, but on full point. I don't know why, but when you land on high demi it really does feel as safe as houses. I must say I was a little shocked when I first see it, and naturally you think "That must hurt". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Is this from sort of step out though rather than from a full jete A full jete will,have quite a bit of power in it so I still can't imagine actually aiming to land on a demi but maybe it's a petit jete of some kind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Lovely links. I think it demonstrates some of the key ingredients so to speak to develop good allegro. You need good plié and power through the feet to push off from the floor into the air. This is why it is important to work the feet as much as possible at the barre as if you cannot go through the whole foot with strength your power in a jump will be compromised. Try filming basic tendus and sautes and look at your footwork as this can be a really useful way to use recording as a learning aid. Look for articulation of the whole foot. If you notice that the end of your toes are not fully stretching in a jump or a tendu it is a sign you need to do more foot and metatarsal strengthening exercises. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Many years ago I saw Galina Samsova circle the stage doing grand jetés landing on full pointe. It was not beautiful and came off looking like a circus trick. Landing that way made the entire sequence look "jerky" - and I am sure did not add to the health of her joints and back. I don't recall the audience applauding it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Must be shockingly bad for one's feet and knees, and spine, as you say Anjuli. Ouch! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Sounds like a recipe for cartilage trouble and shin splints too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecatsmother Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 That must have been given the jump an unusual look due to preparing the foot to land on pointe Anjuli? I think my question is why would anyone want to do that in the first place? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjuli_Bai Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 That must have been given the jump an unusual look due to preparing the foot to land on pointe Anjuli? I think my question is why would anyone want to do that in the first place? The foot is pointed during the jump - and she just kept it pointed. The whole effect was very choppy. As to why to do it? Circus effect, in my opinion. Why put a leg up by the ear when one is dancing Odette? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_Richer Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Hi Lin and Mimi I must apologise as I have got it wrong, it was an illusion, after checking the landing, its on a flat foot which immediately flips to full point, giving the illusion the landing on pointe. I also understand Anjulies comment about the Audiences response. As this is used a number of times with fairly large grand jete's, I personally don't like them, they are really not very aesthetically pleasing to me. Where I'm using it, it would be improper to describe it as a petit jete, but it is definitely a little smaller that a normal grand jete, for me it creates the same illusion as that proceeds a number of leg/arm swapping buree's prior to preparation for a series of pose turns. The large Splits type I was asking for help on is completely different and a number of these are used in Kitri's Variation in Act 1 of Don Q, that is one of the variations I'm working on at the moment. PS I also made a mistake with that one, it is launched from a developpee, silly me. Edited May 14, 2014 by Michelle_Richer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayKwok Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Michelle I've gone onto YouTube to do some searching on Le Corsaire. Do you mean the 3rd odalisque variation, the series of arabesques and pirouettes down the diagonal? As for Kitri's variation in act1 of DonQ, do you mean the jump that comes right after the double lame duck, or the big jump that has the head back? (May be better known as the Plisetskaya leap?) (I apologise for the geekiness. I spend hours watching ballet on YouTube. Started off as procrastination and now one of my favourite past times!) S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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