Anna C Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 We are indeed letting afab express her opinion, which is valued, as are everyone else's opinions. :-) I was just mindful of posters with children at Tring who may be perfectly happy with the standard and amount of ballet there. As I say, just trying to maintain a balance. Just doin' my job, folks. :-) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I am sorry if my post came out as slagging Tring. That's not what I meant at all. Tring is a comparison with what I found in France. I know it's not a ballet specialist school but I sort of expected a better level of ballet at high levels, that's all! Posters with children at Tring might disagree with me and that's fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I don't think it was "slagging Tring". You formed an opinion on what you saw at Tring; nothing wrong with that - horses for courses, as they say! I really was just being mindful that we have posters here with children at Tring and wanted to make sure that both sides of the coin are represented. That's all. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 The lesson which I draw from this discussion is that it is vitally important to ascertain where your child's interests and strengths lie. Personally, (and that's all it is) if I was in any doubt about the direction in which my child would eventually go I would chose a school specialising in classical ballet (assuming of course that my child had the choice) because I think that it is easier to switch from such a school to a school which trains in a broad range of performance skills than to move in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Well I can think of two terrific dancers who came from Tring: Tyrone Singleton (BRB) and Carrie Johnson (currently touring with Matthew Bourne's Nutcracker and a real favourite when she was at BRB)! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Alistair Postlethwaite is with Matthew Bourne's Nutcracker too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Wasn't Rupert Pennefather there for a while too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomuchtallent Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 For someone like me that dosent know much about the vocational schools and cant just go and visit its nice to hear different peoples view points and experiences.Everyone should be able to be honest about how they feel without offending others.I find it a great help reading possitive and negative view points about voc schools.They cant all be perfect, and its good to hear both sides.I think more people should say how they really feel.I would like to hear some nice comments about Tring,as my daughter who is only 9 tells eveybody that she is going there when she is older!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 The accademic side of Tring is excellent and personally I cannot fault it. The dance teachers at Tring are mostly lovely and my daughters ballet teacher at the moment is so lovely with her students and very caring. The school is not perfect but what school is. I have had personal issues but I choose to keep them personal. Everyone has their own journey to persue, one school will suit one child but not another. Training abroad I don't know anything about, but it appears that evidence is proving to show that some schools abroad are training their students to a much higher standard. At Tring some students are allowed to do extra curricular activities, for example my daughter was allowed to perform with London Children's ballet and that was exhausting but so rewarding, she has also been allowed to do lots of other things. So basically there are very mixed messages about tiredness and different teaching methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 "Non -closed fifth! That must be sixth and there isn't one!" What do you mean Fiz? If this is humour, I'm afraid I missed it... Sorry... A non- closed 5th is when the outsides of the feet don't touch...Maybe I wasn't clear... as for a 6th... They do exist and I don't think only on the continent! I know what an open fifth is, thanks. It was meant to be a joke. I'm sorry you don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Although students at Tring are on the dance course, that is divided into different groups. I was never told this and the child or the parents do not know what group their child will be in until the September. The student who wants to be classically trained can be bitterly dissapointed when they learn that they are in a different class. All students recieve ballet training, but it is not to the same extent as the classical set. I personally know of several students who have been part of the royal ballet associate scheme who have thought that they are to be put into the classical set to find that come September they are being pushed down the Contemporary, jazz set. My advise to any parent and student would be when looking at these schools, look with your eyes wide open and ask as many questions as possible. Read between the lines and make sure your questions are answered to your satisfaction. I would also ask where the graduates of the previous year have gone on to get jobs. Its easy for schools to real off various students names , dating back to goodness knows when, of whom have done well, but then you need to consider how many students are in each graduating year and how many go on to get jobs in companies, the success rate may not be quite as impressive as first thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Fiz, it's easier to get a joke when it's a funny one! I think there were many things one could react to in my post to agree or disagree... and more constructive ones too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Come on now girls, this forum is not for personal argugments, its for advise, help and support, and anything else with doing dance. I dont think Fiz meant to upset you afab, I think she really was just joking. Its a really difficult time for a lot of people at the moment concerning dance, and its lovely coming onto this fourm and recieving the lovely support that everbody on here likes to offer. I dont wish to get involved in any arguments but I think personal disagreements are best done by private email. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 It's sometimes difficult to pick up the intended tone of someone's post in written form. As a fellow parent I absolutely agree that it's very useful to get all opinions of a school, whether good or bad. I'm just trying to keep the discussion on the right side of the forum's Acceptable Use Policy, in that if anyone makes a highly critical posting about a school, then it should be done under the poster's full name. I haven't seen any highly critical postings yet. :-). Just want to keep the thread on track. Primrose, you make a particularly useful point about Tring splitting the dance course into Classical Ballet and the more jazz-based group, and that is definitely worth bearing in mind. Am I right in thinking it's the only one of the "Big Four" to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxidad Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 An interesting topic, which reflects both the desire/aspirations of DS and DDs to follow classical ballet through training to a career and the challenges they face. It looks to me as if to stand the best chance, if they are looking for vocational training to aspire to be the best, is to attend one of the schools that focus entirely on ballet. From the discussions above it looks as if at Tring and from other topics the Hammond offer a spread of dance training with less ballet, compared to say Elmhurst or RBS or what the overseas schools offer. Guess the proof of the pudding is how many pupils from the broader based schools are successful in year 11 and get into ENB, upper school RBS. Obviously there are those who attend a vocational school that offers a mix of dance styles because that is the direction they wish to move to with respect to a career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Agreed Primrose, I'll keep it private next time if need be... I just thought Fiz's last post was cheaply directed at me that's all and as I said in my long post, I hesitated in answering Aileen's questions as I knew there was a risk of upsetting people on this forum who either don't have a choice of where to send their children or don't, rightly, want to change their choice... The example I gave about the bad fifth positions in some dancers was really the least interesting thing to comment... And Spannerandpony, I agree with you that I haven't been highly critical of Tring. I just voiced a worry... The point of the post was to know how training is done abroad and I gave this forum the information asked so rather than focus on Tring (in this thread), I think we should go back on track and talk about vocational schools abroad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Broadening this discussion out a bit, I think that a parent should ask ANY school the following questions: How many hours of classical ballet will his/her child be doing weekly? Where did their graduates over, say, the last three years go on graduation? Even if a school provides a list of recent graduate contracts it should be treated with caution. The contracts may be very short term and may be apprentice type contracts. Furthermore, the list may not be a complete list. Those graduates who do not have contracts may not be listed. You need to find out/ work out how many students graduated in any particular year and compare that number to the number on the list 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 afab. I thought that your original post was very informative and I wish that there were more honest people like you about. Please keep being honest. You gave a really good honest rounded view of schools abroad and also your opinion of Tring, and after personel experience of Tring, I couldnt agree with you more. If more people gave rounded opinions like yours then many more parents would have a better idea of what the schools are about. I wish I had been aware of this forum when my dd was setting down the path of vocational schools. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glowlight Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Aileen makes a good point about lists of graduates not including those who don't get contracts. Also you should look at the difference between the graduate destinations for girls and boys, especially if you are a girl or are looking at training for your daughter. BUT the only school which consistently has 100% graduate employment in classical ballet is RBS and not many people have that choice! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomuchtallent Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Its such a shame that the best vocational schools take on so few students from year 7-11.Im sure if they could take on more we would see great results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancingtaxi Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I have to agree with primrose about people giving more rounded opinions - I have been reading this forum for over a year and it has been extremely interesting and informative - I know so very little about this world that my dd is so in love with and I for one, am on a very steep learning curve! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I've been visiting the site for the last 10 years and I'm still learning 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 There is no point in a person posting on this site unless s/he feels that s/he can give an honest opinion. It's not helpful otherwise. Everyone understands the sensitivities around criticising a school that other people's children are attending or wanting to attend but, provided that such criticism is measured and courteous, it is welcome on this site I think. Afab was asked about training abroad and in her response she naturally compared the standard which she saw at one vocational school in the UK with the standard that she saw at her daughters' schools in France. As sometimes happens on this site, we have strayed into another topic, namely, the differences between the vocational schools in the UK (and I'm not taking about which is the "best"). As I'm new to this site, it's possible that this topic has been extensively covered previously but, if not, perhaps someone should start a new topic dealing with this subject. What does everyone think? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I think it would be an excellent idea to start a new topic where people could discuss their experiences of Vocational schools. So often no dares mention that "The Emperor has No Clothes" for fear it is just seen as sour grapes. (Is that too many metaphors?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petipacat Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You can never have too many metaphors , A new topic on experiences of vocational schools would be very helpful any information good or bad is greatly welcome by me as I am about to send dd off and although I have asked for advise by various teachers their opinions differ (no surprise there lol)So any one who has experience of DD or DS who has attended vocational schools I would love to hear about it , x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You do need to remember petipacat that one persons experience can be quite different to anothers. I am certain that some peoples experiences of Tring will be very different to my own, however most know what goes on behind the scenes as it were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 Primrose, I think that a lot of people don't actually know "what goes on behind the scenes as it were". Why would you if you had not had personal experience of a particular school? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I meant that the students already attending the school, who are having a good experience would be very aware of what is happening to other students. We also have to be mindful that a lot of parents of students who are not having a good experience, do not like to speak out about the schools should there be any reprecusions. I am also aware that what I have said on this forum is also fed back to the school. Its a open public forum so that is fine, but you can understand how current parents whose children are attending the schools would feel about this, hence why not many speak out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petipacat Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Ahhh I never thought about that ,thanks primrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieW Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I think it would be an excellent idea to start a new topic where people could discuss their experiences of Vocational schools. So often no dares mention that "The Emperor has No Clothes" for fear it is just seen as sour grapes. (Is that too many metaphors?) I must say, I've always tried to give my honest opinion about the schools we've personally experienced (Elmhurst and WL) but am always careful to bear in mind that our experience may be different from someone else's so I'm only speaking for us and not other people. I do also know lots of people at different schools so can comment on things I hear from them, but only in a way that wouldn't break any confidences. Anyway - I've gone off on a complete tangent now...... Please feel free to start a new thread if anyone feels they'd like to start a new topic - it makes it clearer for people who haven't necessarily been following this one to find information they're interested in (please remember to make headings really clear for that reason - not everyone reads everything and a good "headline" might catch someone's eye if it's something they're interested in) I've also been careful not to identify my children in my postings - not because I say anything that would embarrass them or put them in a difficult position, but because I feel that I'd be invading their privacy somehow, as it's a very small world. Obviously, I know some of the people on the site personally so they know who we are (and have made friends through the site too), and now that we're much further through our journey it's become apparent to most people who my children are - especially Josh (there you go - the first time I've mentioned his name on the site in over 10 years!) - because he was Head Boy at Elmhurst last year - but I don't think he'd mind. He finds it funny that people say hello to him when they see him at the school despite having no idea who they are. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 A new topic on the subject of vocational schools has been started under smallbythesea's heading "anyone applying to vocational schools for 2013?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Back to the Training Abroad subject, there are many dance summer schools in Europe if young people want to test the water! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Rowan, can you tell us about some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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