Will a new principal be appointed (by promotion or from outside) at the Royal Ballet

[bridiem]

Not really for this thread, but I personally don't think that anyone else is yet ready to be promoted to principal.

[capybara]

57 minutes ago, bridiem said:

Not really for this thread, but I personally don't think that anyone else is yet ready to be promoted to principal.

 

Exactly.

 

[alison]

I quite agree, bridiem - although of course Kevin O'Hare does have a habit of promoting early.  I find it a bit offensive to the dancer who is leaving to suggest by implication either that they are doing the ballet equivalent of bed-blocking, or that they can simply be replaced in the rankings by another dancer.

[OnePigeon]

Me neither, but it doesn’t mean it won’t happen.  We shall see...

[art_enthusiast]

3 hours ago, bridiem said:

Not really for this thread, but I personally don't think that anyone else is yet ready to be promoted to principal.

 

I agree, not this year anyway. I think the interesting thing about it though is that it will leave spots open in other ranks for other company members to move up once someone is promoted - I assume that's how it works but of course I'm not privy to how promotions work in ballet companies. 

 

I suppose Alexander Campbell might come back to the RB as a guest coach in future?

[Henry]

May I ask?  Will Mr O'Hare now have a spare contract for a new principal?  Who would you like to see?  

[alison]

1 hour ago, Henry said:

May I ask?  Will Mr O'Hare now have a spare contract for a new principal?  Who would you like to see?  

 

There's no reason simply to "replace" a principal because another is leaving, particularly if nobody has yet reached the required standard.  I think we've discussed this up-thread.

[HelenHelen]

1 hour ago, Henry said:

May I ask?  Will Mr O'Hare now have a spare contract for a new principal?  Who would you like to see?  

 

I think the money, if it can be spared, would be better spread around promotions elsewhere. There are some soloists who seem ready to become first soloists and some first artists who deserve a higher rank, in my opinion. Possibly too early in the season for promotion predictions, though!

Edited February 29 by HelenHelen

[Lizbie1]

1 hour ago, alison said:

 

There's no reason simply to "replace" a principal because another is leaving, particularly if nobody has yet reached the required standard.  I think we've discussed this up-thread.

 

But it needn't be a promotion? I know the idea gets some resistance here, but maybe the upper ranks of the RB men could do with some fresh blood. I don't have anyone in mind, but maybe others do.

 

(I used to think that if the RB could acquire one dancer from outside, Shklyarov would be my choice, but I don't see that happening now!)

[Nogoat]

16 minutes ago, Lizbie1 said:

But it needn't be a promotion? I know the idea gets some resistance here, but maybe the upper ranks of the RB men could do with some fresh blood. I don't have anyone in mind, but maybe others do.

 

Francesco Gabriele Frola

[MAB]

I would have no objection to a dancer from outside who has danced with the company previously  (e.g. Shklyarov) but at this point I would have the most strenuous objections to an outsider being parachuted in as it would block the progress of some very talented RB dancers.

 

Can this subject for discussion please be a separate thread?  This one should be solely about Alexander Campbell.

[Emeralds]

6 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

 

But it needn't be a promotion? I know the idea gets some resistance here, but maybe the upper ranks of the RB men could do with some fresh blood. I don't have anyone in mind, but maybe others do.

 

(I used to think that if the RB could acquire one dancer from outside, Shklyarov would be my choice, but I don't see that happening now!)

James Hay before any outsiders

[TSR101]

Surely Sissens is primed for the next male slot, Kevin seems to really like him given his castings. He was cast more often than Campbell was in lead roles! I would expect his promotion in the autumn tbh and 2025 at the very latest. Personally, whilst he is a great dancer I am not really convinced of his acting ability. For example, in Dark with Excessive Bright - which given our proximity wasn't very forgiving - he went for a very weird dopey spaced out look which was very out of place with the other dancers. 

 

As I have said before, I actually think RB needs some new blood from outside. The last major recruitment of Principals was Osipova and Muntagirov I believe. RB should always seem to bring in proven talent as well as develop it - it offers the company greater variety, given different training styles and wider repertoire, and enhances what it can do. That said, I don't think Frola is it tbh, not sure he is actually better than some of the First Soloists they have in the ranks. ENBs top ranks have been somewhat denuded over the past couple of years. There are a number of RB First Soloists (Acri and Hamilton for example) that would walk into the ENB's top rank with ease in my opinion. 
 

[Dawnstar]

2 hours ago, Emeralds said:

James Hay before any outsiders

 

Hay has been a First Soloist for 9 years. Surely if he was going to make Principal he would have done so before now? I've just checked the biographies of all the current Principals & the longest any of them spent at First Soloist level before being promoted to Principal was 4 years.

 

In terms of promotion momentum & who's getting roles it seems that Sissens or Richardson are the most likely candidate. Personally I'd prefer Richardson, as I find him a better actor, but I suspect Sissens is more likely. If either of them is definitely in line, then I'd rather they had another year at First Soloist level than get promoted in the next few months just because there's a vacancy. It feels as though neither of them has as much experience in a range of lead roles as the more recently-promoted men gained before their promotions (Clarke especially had already danced so many lead roles before he finally got promoted).

[capybara]

Osipova and Muntagirov were both recruited at a time when the talent in the RB’s ranks hadn’t developed sufficiently to fill the shoes of a Principal. It certainly has now (arguably to the point of overcrowding), especially with the additions of Bracewell (2016) and Corrales (2018), both of whom came in lower down initially.

 

I agree with MAB that bringing anyone else in at this stage is both unnecessary and unfair to the RB dancers who are progressing so well. (Shklyarov is 39 by the way and was a stop-gap partner for Osipova when Hallberg could no longer lift her.)

 

I have seen a fair bit of Frola with ENB but, in my view, the credentials of a few existing RB men outweigh his. Good as he obviously is, I need help in understanding why he has quite such a following.

 

Despite what I have said, recruitment from outside can have its advantages if the timing is ‘right’. The RB’s past practice is current proof of that.
 

 

[TSR101]

19 minutes ago, capybara said:

Osipova and Muntagirov were both recruited at a time when the talent in the RB’s ranks hadn’t developed sufficiently to fill the shoes of a Principal. It certainly has now (arguably to the point of overcrowding), especially with the additions of Bracewell (2016) and Corrales (2018), both of whom came in lower down initially.

 

I agree with MAB that bringing anyone else in at this stage is both unnecessary and unfair to the RB dancers who are progressing so well. (Shklyarov is 39 by the way and was a stop-gap partner for Osipova when Hallberg could no longer lift her.)

 

I have seen a fair bit of Frola with ENB but, in my view, the credentials of a few existing RB men outweigh his. Good as he obviously is, I need help in understanding why he has quite such a following.

 

Despite what I have said, recruitment from outside can have its advantages if the timing is ‘right’. The RB’s past practice is current proof of that.
 

 

I am not convinced personally that the pipeline to replace the older principles exists as you say. There are quite a few of them and they include the biggest names the company (Lamb 43, Nunez 41, Cuthbertson 39, Osipova 37, Hirano 40, McRae 38). Furthermore regardless of the pipeline, no single ballet school will produce all the best ballet dancers and I think you do the company an injustice as an AD if you aren't trying to bring in talent - again as I have said in other threads - imagine the history of the RB without the stars that have been brought in - there is no Acosta, no Guillem, no Nuryev, no Kobborg etc. A lesser company it would be. 

For me the issue is who? Obviously a lot of the Russian talent is no longer available really! Most of the dancers I would like to see move to the RB appear quite happy where they are unfortunately!

[MAB]

If the director wanted a foreign star he could probably have secured Jacobo Tissi and/or David Motta Soares when they left Russia,.  He didn't.  With the RB's unique repertoire, dancers coming up the ranks would be a better fit for leading roles than those from different backgrounds.  I've no objection to an occasional guest, but it would have to be someone very special.

[TSR101]

7 minutes ago, MAB said:

If the director wanted a foreign star he could probably have secured Jacobo Tissi and/or David Motta Soares when they left Russia,.  He didn't.  With the RB's unique repertoire, dancers coming up the ranks would be a better fit for leading roles than those from different backgrounds.  I've no objection to an occasional guest, but it would have to be someone very special.

Hmmmm I love the Royal Ballet but tbh this comes across a bit arrogant (no offence intended). The RB's repertoire is special but it's not so special extremely talented dancers cannot adapt and excel in it, as has been proven. TBH I would take Guillem over any other performer of Manon.

Personally, I would take Tissi over any of the first soloists or other prospects from the company. I haven't seen enough of Soares to judge but I expect he would have had to come in as a First Soloist (his Bolshoi grade) and work up which would have been worth it for the company but it is probably less appealing than immediate promotion he got to Principal in Berlin. To be honest, there does not seem to have been any effort by the RB to accommodate exiled dancers from Russia in the long term (I think May Nagahisa was here for a while before she returned to Russia - tut tut) or to use it as a reason to bring in fresh talent. To me this is a failing of the company and a mark against the AD.   

Spurious wishful thinking but if I could recruit a male and female principal into the company I think it would be Marchand (I think a wonderful Des Grieux per my first point above) and Smirnova. Alas I fear this may never happen! 

[art_enthusiast]

2 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

 

If either of them is definitely in line, then I'd rather they had another year at First Soloist level than get promoted in the next few months just because there's a vacancy. It feels as though neither of them has as much experience in a range of lead roles as the more recently-promoted men gained before their promotions (Clarke especially had already danced so many lead roles before he finally got promoted).

I agree, I think they both need more time at First Soloist level, especially as Joseph Sissens was only promoted last year I think? I’d be interested to know how long the recent female principals - Kaneko, O’Sullivan and Magri - remained at first soloist before principal. I’d assume it was quite a reasonable amount of time, as it was for Clarke and Bracewell.

 

It’s true that Sissens and Richardson haven’t done too many principal roles yet and more experience is needed. Sissens will certainly have a chance to prove himself as Siegfried - I am highly anticipating his debut with Sasaki who I also think is principal material. Richardson was a good Romeo in the last run, I’m looking forward to his Des Grieux. I hope Sissens also gets a chance to do Romeo if it comes back next season - I predict that it’s highly likely!

 

I think as Joseph’s acting evolves he will be unstoppable. He definitely is one of my favourite dancers and I hope to see him reach principal - not right now, but I think he has massive potential. 

[AnticaFiamma]

Sissens is an extraordinary talent but at this moment he might still need to gain some partenering experience before becoming a principal.

[MAB]

Okay, if this is to turn into 'nominate a foreign star'  If it is not too arrogant a suggestion.

 

Giorgi Potskhishvili

 

 

 

Edited March 1 by MAB
typo

[BeauxArts]

10 hours ago, capybara said:

 

 

I agree with MAB that bringing anyone else in at this stage is both unnecessary and unfair to the RB dancers who are progressing so well. (Shklyarov is 39 by the way and was a stop-gap partner for Osipova when Hallberg could no longer lift her.)

 

 

 

To the extent it matters, I don't think this is accurate: Hallberg injured his calf/ankle early on in a performance of Giselle with Osipova and Matt Ball stepped in to cover the rest of the performance - to great acclaim. Shklyarov was then invited by Osipova to dance Des Grieux when it became clear Hallberg could not dance the role through injury. At the time Shklyarov was guesting with the RB anyway in Marguerite and Armand. Hallberg subsequently recovered and danced in both Romeo and Juliet with Osipova the following season and I think also Manon (but cannot now recall). . He had also been cast in Swan Lake with Osipova but then Covid struck, and he then moved away into management in Australia. QED: I think he certainly could lift Osipova!

 

Shklyarov is still dancing at a very high level but is clearly now in the latter stages of his career. It is indeed a shame that in years past when the climate was far more conducive to guests from Russia and vice versa, we did not see more of him in particular with the Royal Ballet.

 

42 minutes ago, MAB said:

Okay, if this is to turn into 'nominate a foreign star'  If it is not too arrogant a suggestion.

 

Giorgi Potskhishvili

 

 

 

 

As is known, he has very recently been promoted to principal with DNB but I wonder if that company's repertoire will be enough for him. He reminds me of Irek Mukhamedov when he first danced in the UK with the Bolshoi, in terms of the impact of his dancing - he is extraordinary and there really is no one quite like him dancing in Europe at the moment. 

 

For my part, I rather think that there are too many principals in the Royal Ballet, some of whom were promoted when they should not have been. This seems to have the effect of everyone dancing everything, whether it really suits them or not. For example, and only my opinion, in the current run of Manon I think there were 4 "core" Des Grieux who should have danced at least 3 performances each, rather than the 8 who have been cast. I agree there will be a natural progression into retirement for possibly 4 (or more) principals in the foreseeable future, but I think no promotions to that rank would not be a bad  thing for the next year. For the men, it is really rewarding to see Ball and Bracewell in their prime, the return of Corrales (hopefully) Clarke and Sambe, with Vadim M, and they are a good indication of the strength of that male rank. 

 

Edited March 1 by BeauxArts

[Fonty]

I cannot understand why there has been a tendency over the last few years to have so many principals doing fewer performances of roles.  As has been discussed elsewhere, Campbell was woefully underused.  IMO of course, but it must have been galling to see younger, more junior dancers given leading roles when he was not.  I know you have to bring younger members on, but not at the expense of older, more experienced, and frankly better performers of certain roles.  

 

As you may have guessed, I was a huge fan of Mr Campbell, who was/is not only a fantastic dancer, but a terrific actor as well.  Someone who brought real depth and presence to any role he danced.  Likewise Morera, another superb actress/dancer, a principal who was never cast in roles she would have been fabulous in.  

Edited March 1 by Fonty

[DVDfan]

For what it's worth - I'm no expert, but three things occur to me.

 

Firstly, the reason that RB is so strong in depth is that the most talented youngsters join, confident that they will get opportunities for promotion and to  dance a variety of roles, when suited to them. Parachuting dancers in from outside to take the promotions demoralises the company.  I know one or two exceptional dancers have come in, but being exceptional it does no harm occasionally, and that it can occasionally make sense to recruit an older dancer to fill a gap - i.e. someone who will naturally be ready to retire around the time the up-and-coming members of the company are ready for promotion.

If KOH did recruit from outside I think it follows as night the day at there would be loads of moans on here that the incomer was taking an opportunity they wanted for their favourite First Soloist. There's enough resentment of guest artists, after all.

 

Secondly, since there are repeated complaints on this forum that so-and-so is underused, or only has two performances, this strongly suggests that there have been too  many principals - it follows  that there is no need to promote or parachute in now.  There are obviously some talented youngsters who will probably make principal, but it does them no good to promote too soon. 

 

Thirdly, whatever the AD does will be criticised. 

[zxDaveM]

8 minutes ago, DVDfan said:

Thirdly, whatever the AD does he will be criticised. 

 

That's a cert!

I don't think they will bring in anyone or even promote anyone at this time - an opportunity to save a few bob  in the short term

But then, whenever I try to predict these things, I always get it wrong!

[Fonty]

20 minutes ago, DVDfan said:

 

Thirdly, whatever the AD does will be criticised. 

 

To a certain extent, yes.  But to have principals who are very rarely cast in principal roles does deserve criticism.  Morera herself said she begged to be able to dance the role of Juliet just once....and never got the opportunity.  Not as if she wasn't capable of it, after all.  She was wonderful in all the other MacMillan roles she was cast in.

[art_enthusiast]

2 minutes ago, Fonty said:

Morera herself said she begged to be able to dance the role of Juliet just once....and never got the opportunity. 

 

A very bizarre decision I must say.

 

I wish I could have seen her do the full length Manon at least once... and no recordings that I'm aware of, apart from the bedroom PDD in one of the RB's galas.

[JNC]

I’m of the perhaps controversial opinion that if anything there are perhaps too many principals now.

 

this leads to current principles being under-utilised, and or very long runs of the same production so every principal can have their go (whilst still not casting certain principals ahead of first soloists or others ironically!). I do appreciate long runs may not be driven by this alone but it does seem like everyone has to have their go at swan lake unlike what for example Paris Opera Ballet do which is having more limited principals in a certain production and each principal tends to dance a few more performances as well. And of course another way of solving this could be solved by having more diverse repertoire with shows running overlapping in some dates (eg a contemporary mix against a classical or balancing a large company set piece against something requiring much fewer dancers). 
 

I don’t think it should be a “race” to become a principal and personally in my untechnical inexpert view I don’t think there is anyone ready to be a principal right now. That’s not to say they don’t have talent and potential and shouldn’t still be cast in principal level/style roles (this seems to be happening already anyway) but my preferred dancers seem to be the ones that have the most experience and so I think you generally only get better with time. 
 

also interestingly I found I preferred some dancers as first soloists rather than principals as I saw them more but also found I preferred them in first soloists type roles, and the occasional principal role that felt it was suited/tailored to them. There’s one first soloist who I always made a point of seeing and then they were promoted to principal. I then found I didn’t enjoy them as much in some principal roles and now don’t tend to book for them as there are other principals I prefer and find to be more balanced across the repertoire. If I had unlimited money and time I’d happily see everyone but unfortunately that’s not the case, and I miss seeing my favourite first soloists in the same production as my favourite principals. (Selfish I know and regardless of my thoughts the promotion I thought was well deserved.) 
 

Of course you need to balance all this against motivating the younger ranks and giving them interesting casting opportunities but I think that is already happening. (But again sometimes at the expense of principals/first soloists who we don’t see for months, again could be solved by diversifying the repertoire.) 

[offmenu]

As someone mentioned upthread, given the increasing age of quite a few ROH principals & some of their (inevitable) retirements in the next 2-5 years, this convo will probably change in short order.

 

It seems to me that it would be worth focusing on building up younger talent (not just Sissens and Richardson, who I think are both exceptional talents, but also some of the promising Soloist/First Artists like Dixon, Brændsrød, Donelly, Boswell etc - and that’s just the men) so that when we inevitably have a smaller crop of principals, the younger ones will be ready for that status. 

Edited March 1 by offmenu

[Richard LH]

3 hours ago, BeauxArts said:

it is really rewarding to see Ball and Bracewell in their prime, the return of Corrales (hopefully) Clarke and Sambe, with Vadim M, and they are a good indication of the strength of that male rank. 

I would add Hirano to that list!

[Richard LH]

43 minutes ago, JNC said:

I’m of the perhaps controversial opinion that if anything there are perhaps too many principals now.

I don't think this is controversial @JNC, this seems to be the overwhelming opinion expressed on this thread so far....including myself. My only caveat is that I would abandon that position if James Hay were promoted, but I am assuming (like others) that is not now likely.

[DVDfan]

58 minutes ago, Fonty said:

 

To a certain extent, yes.  But to have principals who are very rarely cast in principal roles does deserve criticism.  Morera herself said she begged to be able to dance the role of Juliet just once....and never got the opportunity.  Not as if she wasn't capable of it, after all.  She was wonderful in all the other MacMillan roles she was cast in.

I did not mean to say that the AD never got it wrong, only that on this issue of new principals, he would be berated whatever his decision.

 

I'd also add that we do not know why Morera was not cast as Juliet, so that our criticism of that decision may not be justified. Or it might be more than deserved - we just don't know.

[Dawnstar]

10 hours ago, art_enthusiast said:

I agree, I think they both need more time at First Soloist level, especially as Joseph Sissens was only promoted last year I think? I’d be interested to know how long the recent female principals - Kaneko, O’Sullivan and Magri - remained at first soloist before principal. I’d assume it was quite a reasonable amount of time, as it was for Clarke and Bracewell.

 

Kaneko 3 years, O'Sullivan 2 years, Magri 3 years, Clarke 2 and a half years, Bracewell 4 years. Though all of them effectively lost a year of performing at First Soloist level because of covid & Bracewell had also lost nearly a year to injury before that. So Richardson at 2 and a half years & Sissens at 1 and a half years have probably had nearly as much performing time at First Soloist level as the others did but it doesn't feel as though they have had the same amount of leading role experience. So far Sissens has done Nutcracker Prince & will do Siegfried shortly while Richardson has done Nutcracker Prince & Romeo & will do Des Grieux shortly. Whereas Bracewell had done Nutcracker Prince, Siegfried, Franz & Romeo and Clarke had done Nutcracker Prince, Prince Florimund, Aminta, Des Grieux, Onegin, Siegfried, Albrecht & Romeo.

 

3 hours ago, BeauxArts said:

For example, and only my opinion, in the current run of Manon I think there were 4 "core" Des Grieux who should have danced at least 3 performances each, rather than the 8 who have been cast.

 

May I ask who your 4 preferred Des Grieux are? Personally I've seen 4 Des Grieux live this run, Bracewell, Ball, Muntagirov & Hirano, plus Clarke at the cinema & I thought all of them justified being cast in the role.

 

14 minutes ago, JNC said:

also interestingly I found I preferred some dancers as first soloists rather than principals as I saw them more but also found I preferred them in first soloists type roles, and the occasional principal role that felt it was suited/tailored to them. There’s one first soloist who I always made a point of seeing and then they were promoted to principal. I then found I didn’t enjoy them as much in some principal roles and now don’t tend to book for them as there are other principals I prefer and find to be more balanced across the repertoire.

 

I agree with this feeling. I have no idea who the First Soloist you're referring to is but for me it's Sambe who I thought was excellent in the roles I saw him in as First Soloist such as Mercutio but I haven't been as keen on him in some of the big classical roles.