TodayTix selling ROH Productions beware ticket price inflation

[San Perregrino]

TodayTix has listed the above productions for certain dates.

However, these are currently not discounted.  In fact the ticket prices are higher than if booked directly with the ROH.

e.g. Manon 23rd February O/S M10: ROH price £140 vs TodayTix price £161, O/S V12: ROH Price £120 vs TodayTix Price £138. Amphi A46: ROH Price £99 vs TodayTix Price £114

e.g. Carmen 5th April O/S K13 ROH Price £245 vs TodayTix Price £282

[Rob S]

I guess it's easy to get hooked on the idea they are just a discount seller when they're not, it would seem

[San Perregrino]

Just now, Rob S said:

I guess it's easy to get hooked on the idea they are just a discount seller when they're not, it would seem

And perhaps to either “discount” closer to the actual date or have “flash sales” 

[Rob S]

2 minutes ago, PeterS said:

And perhaps to either “discount” closer to the actual date or have “flash sales” 

 

Yes, since discovering them I've booked many London plays through them at a discount or shortish notice now

[alison]

Yes, I've noticed them and others adding a markup to prices (bottom-price ENB Giselle tickets £33?).  What is Todaytix doing selling ROH tickets, anyway?  I thought they'd got rid of external sellers.

 

I think this is probably worth moving to one of the dedicated ballet/dance forums so that more people see it.

[Blossom]

7 hours ago, alison said:

What is Todaytix doing selling ROH tickets, anyway?  I thought they'd got rid of external sellers.

 

I think this is probably worth moving to one of the dedicated ballet/dance forums so that more people see it.

I think the challenge for ROH is that in the current financial climate, if they won’t budge on their inflated pricing, they are going to have to work harder to sell tickets. The benefit of TodayTix is that they can discount later vs practically giving away tickets at rock bottom prices to eg the NHS.

 

If I understand your last point directly, I think it’s lunacy that they don’t share offers with their most committed audiences who might be more inclined to pick up an additional performance or bring a friend who would otherwise not be in a position to go.

[alison]

7 hours ago, alison said:

Yes, I've noticed them and others adding a markup to prices (bottom-price ENB Giselle tickets £33?).

 

Yep, I checked.  Those "£33" tickets are in fact £25 if bought at the box office.

[capybara]

I thought that the ROH did not deal with discounters or 'second hand sellers'.

But maybe TodayTix has partnered with the ROH in the distribution of the unsold tickets which mysteriously disappear a couple of days before a show?

There is surely no way that all the discounts available in the autumn could have been taken up by in-house staff and NHS workers.

[JNC]

I also thought ROH tickets were exclusively sold via their website/box office. This is a worrying development if it’s a legitimate partnership.

 

having said that it may actually increase transparency and fairness with how much and how often they discount productions rather than releasing to an exclusive mystery group who’s criteria always changes.

 

On the other hand I do feel bad for Young ROH though who should be first in line for discounts in my opinion, closely followed by Friends. (And I say that as neither a Young ROH nor a Friend but because it’s important to access these things when you’re young and - stereotypically - have less disposable income, and as for Friends they do support ROH so they deserve a bit of priority here). 
 

I wonder why ROH are choosing to utilise TodayTix - are sales really that poor? Surely they need to do more effective PR (highlighting no booking fees if booked directly with ROH!) if that’s the case, rather than gouging customers with inflated prices so TodayTix can take a cut for their “free” promotion via their platform. 
 

This further erodes the special something ROH has (used to have?) compared to other West End venues. It’s history and having “Royal” in the name, and having tickets only sold directly had an air of prestige and exclusive (without being exclusionary as anyone can buy on the website). 

Edited January 12 by JNC

[lollylamb1]

I was an usher for the Christmas period at ROH a decade ago + remember we used to have to push the marketing when ticket sales were very low at the Linbury via then Twitter etc. However at the theatre I now usher at, we stopped using TodayTix last year because of big issues with them publishing the wrong start time (!) + also selling duplicate seats. I can see + have seen how ROH are trying to reach out to new audiences, especially to those who are tech savvy to fill the empty seats + make bigger profits, I'm not for or against third party sellers, so will be interesting to see how it pans out for ROH.

 

However, one thing I did notice recently that really shocked me was how ROH is now re-posting/sharing stories on their official Instagram from the public, not from influencers or anyone in the public eye in particular, but those who've tagged ROH in their story. The story I saw the other night, showcased an 'evening out to The Nutcracker' with a really explicit backing track. I first watched it with the sound off + then turned it on + I didn't really know what to think at that point! I'm all for new music + new audiences enjoying ROH for the first time, but I definitely felt this was a low blow + wasn't sure if the person handling ROH social media had listened to the track before they pressed share!

[TSR101]

7 hours ago, JNC said:

On the other hand I do feel bad for Young ROH though who should be first in line for discounts in my opinion, closely followed by Friends. (And I say that as neither a Young ROH nor a Friend but because it’s important to access these things when you’re young and - stereotypically - have less disposable income, and as for Friends they do support ROH so they deserve a bit of priority here). 
 

 

To be honest imo Young ROH is a woeful wasted opportunity. It fails to appreciate the financial struggles of a much wider millennial age range have suffered - stuck renting, property prices out of their range, stagnant wages for almost their entire earning life etc. They should look at other places that offer under 30, under 35 or under 40 ranges (I know Glyndebourne has an under40s membership) for inspiration. At the moment, you go from Young ROH (unto 25) to nothing, and thus you risk losing the 25-40 audience immediately (with the exception those who work in finance/law etc). I know this exact thing has happened to people I know. 

 

If I had my way - ROH would have an Under 21 Membership and an Under 40 Membership. 

I think ROH also are rubbish at leveraging their existing membership (who they know like their output) for increased sales with discounts. They definitely could have got more ticket sales out of me with discounts in poorly selling operas. 

[Jan McNulty]

11 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

 

To be honest imo Young ROH is a woeful wasted opportunity. It fails to appreciate the financial struggles of a much wider millennial age range have suffered - stuck renting, property prices out of their range, stagnant wages for almost their entire earning life etc. They should look at other places that offer under 30, under 35 or under 40 ranges (I know Glyndebourne has an under40s membership) for inspiration. At the moment, you go from Young ROH (unto 25) to nothing, and thus you risk losing the 25-40 audience immediately (with the exception those who work in finance/law etc). I know this exact thing has happened to people I know. 

 

If I had my way - ROH would have an Under 21 Membership and an Under 40 Membership. 

I think ROH also are rubbish at leveraging their existing membership (who they know like their output) for increased sales with discounts. They definitely could have got more ticket sales out of me with discounts in poorly selling operas. 

 

And how about a "State Pensioners" Membership?

[alison]

It would cover too many of their audience.  That's what I was told many moons ago.

[Scheherezade]

3 minutes ago, alison said:

It would cover too many of their audience.  That's what I was told many moons ago.

But could generate more income as people in the state pension bracket are increasingly being priced out. 

[FionaM]

11 minutes ago, Scheherezade said:

But could generate more income as people in the state pension bracket are increasingly being priced out. 

from ROH point of view many in pensionable bracket are not in need of a discount.  How would they differentiate 🤔 

 

They cannot discount every age group!   
 

I’m not sure I agree with a discount for under 40 either.   The idea that ‘only workers in finance/law can afford tickets’ has applied for many decades.  It’s not a new phenomenon.  (I worked in finance in the 90s, very few friends in other fields could afford to join me.)

 

I prefer the option to discount to regulars … by which I mean offering discounts in the section that is not selling well to regulars who usually buy in that section.  With digital information records this should be easy to do.  
 

 

[Geoff]

2 hours ago, lollylamb1 said:

However, one thing I did notice recently that really shocked me was how ROH is now re-posting/sharing stories on their official Instagram from the public, not from influencers or anyone in the public eye in particular, but those who've tagged ROH in their story. The story I saw the other night, showcased an 'evening out to The Nutcracker' with a really explicit backing track. I first watched it with the sound off + then turned it on + I didn't really know what to think at that point! I'm all for new music + new audiences enjoying ROH for the first time, but I definitely felt this was a low blow + wasn't sure if the person handling ROH social media had listened to the track before they pressed share!

This is interesting. Can you give some more clues? I’ve tried to find the post you describe, on Instagram and Instagram stories, also Twitter/X, but don’t see it, Have they taken it down or am I looking in the wrong place? 

[Rob S]

24 minutes ago, Geoff said:

This is interesting. Can you give some more clues? I’ve tried to find the post you describe, on Instagram and Instagram stories, also Twitter/X, but don’t see it, Have they taken it down or am I looking in the wrong place? 

 

'story I saw the other night' 

 

There's your clue...stories only last 24 hours and then they're gone unless the poster chooses to archive them in an album that you can access on their profile page.

[JNC]

3 hours ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

And how about a "State Pensioners" Membership?

Statistically speaking those of pensionable age tend to be better off than younger working people (there is research on this I’m not just assuming). Most people who have retired own their own property outright, and have far more generous company pensions of the defined benefit (eg final salary) than current younger generations will ever have. Combine that with free bus travel etc and the disposable income of pensioners in generally vastly outweighs most younger people apart from those working in incredibly highly paid sectors. 

 

Of course there will be outliers and those who are struggling but going off data the younger generation are more in “need” of financial support than older with wages stagnant, rent spiralling, house buying near impossible for security of tenure etc. 

 

Also part of the Young ROH scheme isn’t just about supporting the “needy” but also about instilling a love of ballet/opera at a young(er) age to have lifelong “customers”. 

 

I agree @TSR101 they could consider increasing the age limit. 40 seems a bit much but up to 30 isn’t unheard of now at other arts/theatre venues (eg wasn’t ENO’s opera scheme with heavily discounted tickets up to 30?). 

Edited January 12 by JNC

[Scheherezade]

A lot of pensioners nevertheless have no private pensions, or very small private pensions, live outside the Greater London parameters and are not therefore eligible for free bus or train travel into central London, with all their assets tied up in their home and, consequently, hardly any disposable income. I have a number of arts-loving friends of many decades standing in this position who have been entirely priced out. 

Edited January 12 by Scheherezade

[Sim]

When it comes to marketing, the ROH could take a leaf out of Shen Yun's book:  every single time I open social media, no matter what it is, there is Shen Yun.  YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, news sites all over the world...plus the distribution of flyers every time I leave the ROH at the moment...to be honest it's driving me nuts, but they are clearly getting the 'we are here' or 'we are coming' message across!!

[lollylamb1]

2 hours ago, Geoff said:

This is interesting. Can you give some more clues? I’ve tried to find the post you describe, on Instagram and Instagram stories, also Twitter/X, but don’t see it, Have they taken it down or am I looking in the wrong place? 

It was on Instagram on Tuesday I think, yes it's now expired, but sure they will keep re-posting other stories.

[Scheherezade]

9 minutes ago, Sim said:

When it comes to marketing, the ROH could take a leaf out of Shen Yun's book:  every single time I open social media, no matter what it is, there is Shen Yun.  YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, news sites all over the world...plus the distribution of flyers every time I leave the ROH at the moment...to be honest it's driving me nuts, but they are clearly getting the 'we are here' or 'we are coming' message across!!

Yes, and however many times you may disregard the marketing push, there comes a point where almost anyone will decide that perhaps they will give it a try. 

[Jan McNulty]

4 hours ago, JNC said:

Statistically speaking those of pensionable age tend to be better off than younger working people (there is research on this I’m not just assuming). Most people who have retired own their own property outright, and have far more generous company pensions of the defined benefit (eg final salary) than current younger generations will ever have. Combine that with free bus travel etc and the disposable income of pensioners in generally vastly outweighs most younger people apart from those working in incredibly highly paid sectors. 

 

 

I'm lost for words at this.  

 

I do ok on my company pension and the state pension has come in handy but I was by no means at the bottom of the grades in my employment so I do actually know many of my colleagues who don't have nearly as much disposable income as I do.  Apart from not living in London so any ticket purchase includes the cost of the journey and, for an evening performance, accommodation.

 

A lot of friends in my age bracket were caught up in the pensions scandal of some years ago.  My friend's late husband (they were self employed) got less than 1/4 of what he had been told to expect.

[Sim]

3 hours ago, Scheherezade said:

Yes, and however many times you may disregard the marketing push, there comes a point where almost anyone will decide that perhaps they will give it a try. 

I think that's the marketing strategy here:  wear you down until you submit!!

[Emeralds]

On 12/01/2024 at 08:12, lollylamb1 said:

I was an usher for the Christmas period at ROH a decade ago + remember we used to have to push the marketing when ticket sales were very low at the Linbury via then Twitter etc. However at the theatre I now usher at, we stopped using TodayTix last year because of big issues with them publishing the wrong start time (!) + also selling duplicate seats. I can see + have seen how ROH are trying to reach out to new audiences, especially to those who are tech savvy to fill the empty seats + make bigger profits, I'm not for or against third party sellers, so will be interesting to see how it pans out for ROH.

 

However, one thing I did notice recently that really shocked me was how ROH is now re-posting/sharing stories on their official Instagram from the public, not from influencers or anyone in the public eye in particular, but those who've tagged ROH in their story. The story I saw the other night, showcased an 'evening out to The Nutcracker' with a really explicit backing track. I first watched it with the sound off + then turned it on + I didn't really know what to think at that point! I'm all for new music + new audiences enjoying ROH for the first time, but I definitely felt this was a low blow + wasn't sure if the person handling ROH social media had listened to the track before they pressed share!

I agree with @lollylamb1. And people using horrible audio (not all of them can be called music or songs!) to accompany ballet on TikTok or Instagram reels are a particular annoyance especially when the music for Nutcracker (or any ballet classic) is already beautiful and well liked.

 

Even more ironic to receive  "recommended" videos where some influencer has actually used Nutcracker music to accompany a post about fashion or Christmas shopping while ROH or ENB are too shy to use the original Nutcracker music on their own reels! 

[alison]

Do the companies have to pay more attention to copyright issues than social media influencers do?

[Linnzi5]

On 12/01/2024 at 13:45, Sim said:

When it comes to marketing, the ROH could take a leaf out of Shen Yun's book:  every single time I open social media, no matter what it is, there is Shen Yun.  YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, news sites all over the world...plus the distribution of flyers every time I leave the ROH at the moment...to be honest it's driving me nuts, but they are clearly getting the 'we are here' or 'we are coming' message across!!

Same happens to me - drives me insane! I realise it's probably targeted advertising, owing to my love of ballet, but literally, everywhere I go online that can possibly have adverts, Shen Yun are there - right in my face! 🙄 😡

[JNC]

@Jan McNulty this is the article I was referring to https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/how-britain-became-a-gerontocracy/ if you’re interested you can also see median financial wealth by age broken down here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/totalwealthingreatbritain/april2018tomarch2020

 

I’m well aware there are many struggling pensioners and lots of young affluent people with large disposal incomes. I didn’t/don’t want to turn it into a “intergenerational war” and lots of things could be done to improve both the lot of the young and the retired. 
 

My overarching point I think is that if we are generalising on age groups the young (on average) are facing incredible costs (rent, housing notably being a very high proportion of income compared to previous generations) and so even though I no longer qualify I’m very supportive of schemes providing discount for 25 or 30 and under!
 

Schemes like Young ROH targeting such broad groups can’t individually means test individuals so they have to just pull from existing data and what they want to achieve (as already mentioned I don’t think Young ROH is just about targeting those likely to have less money but also targeting a younger customer base in the hope they become customers for the next 30/40/50+ years). 
 

I won’t comment on this further as I don’t want to take the topic further off track but just wanted to clarify I was by no means trying to say ALL pensioners are wealthier or undeserving and of course every individual will have different circumstances. 

[Tango Dancer]

On 13/01/2024 at 17:51, Linnzi5 said:

Same happens to me - drives me insane! I realise it's probably targeted advertising, owing to my love of ballet, but literally, everywhere I go online that can possibly have adverts, Shen Yun are there - right in my face! 🙄 😡

 

Me too.  Every time I watch something on Youtube I get Shen Yun despite saying I don't want to see their adverts.  

[Emeralds]

It's a bit like Ryanair and Easyjet cultivating this image that they are low cost but they often sell seats far more expensive than conventional airlines like BA or Aer Lingus who give you the normal perks like a light or full meal, baggage space, reserved seating etc! 

 

Moral of the story: check prices on the theatre website first before going to any self proclaimed "last minute discount" or "discount website" retailers. They do often have bargains if a show is not selling well, but the popular or sold out shows are unlikely to be discounted. 

[Emeralds]

PS London Coliseum are offering discounted tickets for over 60s, some of which are the same price as Young ROH tickets-£30. (Coliseum has booking fees though). Some are even cheaper than £30.

[alison]

4 hours ago, Emeralds said:

PS London Coliseum are offering discounted tickets for over 60s, some of which are the same price as Young ROH tickets-£30. (Coliseum has booking fees though). Some are even cheaper than £30.

 

I believe those are the half-price standbys.  They apply to ENO, but not to ENB, where you only get a £5 discount, as I understand it.

[Emeralds]

12 hours ago, alison said:

 

I believe those are the half-price standbys.  They apply to ENO, but not to ENB, where you only get a £5 discount, as I understand it.

Alison, you can book these in advance. From £15 tickets in the Balcony, to £35 or £55 tickets in the upper circle, to £95 tickets in the Dress Circle and Stalls, there's lots of tickets that qualiy - the £5 discount for patrons over 60 applies when you book online. There's a booking fee of £2.25 per ticket (with a £9 upper limit so you won't get charged it for the 5th ticket and beyond). I tried out on the website just to be sure.  😀