Should we stop supporting ballet after Panorama?

[Ondine]

I'm choosing my words carefully here.

 

There's an ongoing and long thread in 'Doing Dance' following on from the Panorama documentary last night on BBC TV.

 

Many posters are making claims of appalling abuse at ballet schools. It's not only the two featured, the Royal Ballet School and Elmhurst, there are claims of an all pervasive culture throughout the 'industry' which has allegedly damaged profoundly the lives of numerous young people.

 

Allegedly there is a wall of silence & secrecy surrounding the issue as either so many are too damaged to speak of it or there is the worry that careers will be ruined if they do speak out.

 

If this is the case, then is it right that ballet companies should be supported?  Is taking your children to see Nutcracker watching dancers who are the product of alleged abuse  supporting abuse?

 

It's quite a conundrum and I'm wondering if this alleged lid lifting will alter how forum members view performances and the art of ballet in general.

 

 

[betterankles]

Oh pleeeeeeze

[Ondine]

You don't think it's a valid question?  Some of the stories from young people are harrowing.  So either it's not really an issue or it is. If it is, then audiences are surely part of any solution? After all, it's the paying public which keeps ballet companies going, and companies are fed into by schools which allegedly are damaging lives.

 

@LukeJennings featured in the programme and posted on the thread in 'Doing Dance' and he seems to think it an issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trog]

When I started watching ballet in the 1970s there were stories that Russian and Chinese dancers and gymnasts had their legs broken to improve their flexibility. Whether true or not, I don't know, but it hasn't affected my enjoyment of watching ballet and having a go (very poorly).

 

I also enjoy watching body building competitions. Steroid abuse is well known in the body building circles and that really does mess up your body. I lift regularly and I'be never been tempted by roids. Everyone's hero Arnie took PEDs and I dont' think he lost many fans.

[Ondine]

So the ends justify the means? 

 

 

[Anna C]

As a dance parent, no, this is not a solution.  Did anyone stop watching Gymnastics after the abuse by coaches and team staff was highlighted?  I doubt it, because what would that have solved?  Nothing, in my opinion.

 

Teachers need to stop teaching “the way they were taught”, because it “didn’t do them any harm”.  And not just full-time schools; local schools too.  We need to stop taking 11 year old children into full-time training, then assessing them out 2 years’ later for going through puberty.  Schools in receipt of government funding need to be more accountable.  If students make it through 5 years of lower school training, there should not be years where no students (or even 1 or 2) suddenly aren’t “good enough” to get into the associated Upper School/6th form.

 

If you have been accepted into the Upper School, you should stand a half decent chance of graduating after 3 years.  This is not the case.  
 

@LukeJennings wrote about this issue - at RBS - over a decade ago.  Yet nothing seems to have changed.  
 

There are other problems with UK ballet training, as well.  Anyone can set up a “Ballet School”.  There can be one or two “Directors”, but there is no requirement for a 16+ “school” to be inspected.  These privately run enterprises can do whatever they want, with zero accountability.  There is no board of governors, nobody independent to hear complaints, no comeback.  They are free to do whatever they wish, including bully, shame, and abuse.
 

Should we regulate and inspect ballet training?  I think so.  Should Teachers have to take regular courses in best practice and appropriate handling of students?  Again, yes, imo.  You can have been THE most wonderful dancer but still not be a good teacher.   Should proven abusive teachers/staff be removed, as they have in gymnastics?  Yes. Should we do away with Lower School training, especially boarding schools where parents may only see their child in person once or twice a term?  Perhaps.  Should schools support talented students through puberty, instead of assessing out?  I think so.

 

Should we punish dancers who have made it into the company by stopping watching them?  No.  What would that achieve?

 

 

[zxDaveM]

In a 'normal' school (your bog standard comprehensive) teachers have to pass through a course on 'how to be a teacher' after graduating in their chosen subject, which includes an understanding of how young minds work, and develop. Once teaching, they are regularly assessed (by Ofsted, and possibly their head teachers), and update training courses undertaken to improve their teaching/mentoring skills are 'fairly' frequent. Perhaps ballet teachers should go through a similar continual and rigorous process, before being let loose on young people?

[Sim]

Should we stop supporting ballet after Panorama?  No, we shouldn't.  I know dancers in the large UK/US companies and they all love what they do.  Are they all to be denied after their hard work and dedication?  Change needs to start and be implemented from the bottom and upwards, and that I do support.  

[Suffolkgal]

Fine to pose the question but also fine to respond unequivocally no, of course not. 

[Ondine]

I'd have hoped that prestigious schools employing ballet teachers only employed those with teaching qualifications for ballet awarded by accredited institutions.  I'm pretty certain those courses passed include the theory of child development.  I don't think it's really the case that the old way of 'setting up your studio' after a dancing career and teaching applies these days.

 

So I'm not sure that qualifications and courses, if we are to believe all we are told on the Panorama prog and the forum thread,  are all of the solution.

 

 

17 minutes ago, zxDaveM said:

In a 'normal' school (your bog standard comprehensive) teachers have to pass through a course on 'how to be a teacher' after graduating in their chosen subject, which includes an understanding of how young minds work, and develop. Once teaching, they are regularly assessed (by Ofsted, and possibly their head teachers), and update training courses undertaken to improve their teaching/mentoring skills are 'fairly' frequent. Perhaps ballet teachers should go through a similar continual and rigorous process, before being let loose on young people?

 

 

[LinMM]

Thanks for post Anna C agree with every word. 
What would be the point of destroying a whole Art form which gives so much joy to performers and audiences alike never mind the many amateurs who will never make the “Final Cut”  but still enjoy dancing just because some very bad training practices need getting rid of and the ballet world needs to finally be brought into the 21st Century in how it trains it’s elite students.  

[Ondine]

1 minute ago, Suffolkgal said:

Fine to pose the question but also fine to respond unequivocally no, of course not. 

 

I posed the question so we could have a reasoned and hopefully informed discussion, yes. 

 

I can also see some of the perspective of schools which 'assess out'. That one is so difficult.

 

Matthew Ball's mother was at White Lodge and was 'assessed out' after a year as she grew too tall.  That's public info BTW.  I can see the ramifications of that from both sides. It's out of the control of any human how tall they grow (without medical intervention).

 

 

 

 

[Anna C]

13 minutes ago, Ondine said:

I'd have hoped that prestigious schools employing ballet teachers only employed those with teaching qualifications for ballet awarded by accredited institutions.

Not the case, in my experience.

[Ballet_novice]

Sure stop any

8 minutes ago, Ondine said:

 

I posed the question so we could have a reasoned and hopefully informed discussion, yes. 

 

I can also see some of the perspective of schools which 'assess out'. That one is so difficult.

 

Matthew Ball's mother was at White Lodge and was 'assessed out' after a year as she grew too tall.  That's public info BTW.  I can see the ramifications of that from both sides. It's out of the control of any human how tall they grow (without medical intervention).

 

 

 

 

[Ballet_novice]

People should talk with real statistics at hand. Here we are presented with 4 cases and we draw conclusions not granted. 

[LinMM]

The height issue is interesting. I had an audition for Elmhurst when I was 11. and when it was in Camberley in Surrey not far from where I lived at the time. 
I didn’t get a place as they very cleverly picked up (by taking certain measurements) that I would probably grow too tall ( true) and I had a hip restriction which might not be suitable for intensive ballet training (only in very recent years been giving me problems lol). I suspect my dancing talent wasn’t up to scratch either!! I could certainly see I was not exactly top notch compared to others there! 
My parents only went along with this at the time because their academics at the time looked good! 
It seems rather unfortunate for Matthew Balls mother to have grown too tall quite so quickly but these things do happen. 
 

[capybara]

1 hour ago, Ondine said:

I'd have hoped that prestigious schools employing ballet teachers only employed those with teaching qualifications for ballet awarded by accredited institutions. 

Haven’t most RBS teachers (if not all) undertaken the school’s own teaching programme?

Moreover, that school definitely has regular in service training sessions for staff.

[Pas de Quatre]

Many teachers who have Exam Board accreditation have little experience or knowledge outside their board. So not necessarily able to teach beyond the basics.

[Emeralds]

I’ve watched the whole programme and it broke my heart to see (from the early photos and videos) clearly talented youngsters being crushed and destroyed. Whether they grow to look like Yasmine Naghdi or Vadim Muntagirov wasn’t the point.

 

A lot of the interviewees, were describing situations where teaching staff were telling the students they had to cast a spell over their bodies by magic and change what what was in their DNA essentially to look like a mini Guillem or Cojocaru (the comparison is mine). Yes, the photos showed the young girls had just undergone puberty. But bodies do change- without intervention by methods such as dieting or extreme measures- naturally between ages 14 and 17. Many girls experience growth spurts where they grow taller and naturally “lengthen out”, as one interviewee said her teachers wanted her to “do”, just by allowing nature to take its course. 

 

Asking a 13 or 14 year old child to defeat genetics? That’s not just psychological  damage (even if well intentioned), but very very ignorant- ie a woeful lack of basic scientific knowledge. None of the pupils in the programme who were told to lose weight were overweight or too heavy in their photos. Yes, some of the girls had curves - but those can be temporary. Many girls grow out of those. As an example, there are two famous Mariinsky ballerinas, now retired, looked quite curvy (I’m sure RBS would have commented that they need to lengthen out) in photos when they first joined the company as teens, yet by their twenties they had developed into very slender ballerinas- and become stars (they both went on to give birth to healthy children so were definitely not malnourished after they got thinner). 

 

It’s very telling to note that all the conversations described about telling a child to lose weight were never done in the presence of a dietician, yet any intention or instruction to start weight loss measures should be done with the guidance of a dietician. Especially in a teen or a child!

 

With regards to accreditation, unfortunately many of these exact credentials we think will reassure parents and the public are devised by the same professional teachers and coaches who themselves have insufficient  knowledge of how to address the topic of the body types of children and teenagers, or how to communicate with them. They seem to be making it up as they go along. Also, unfortunately there is no certificate or qualification that trains a professional in how to speak with discernment, compassion and empathy. Many of the cruel comments - eg “you’re too fat and that’s why you can’t jump off the floor” - sound so ludicrous that an adult would laugh it off and say they were exaggerating, but an impressionable child far away from home and already tired and partly starved could believe 100%. 

 

Quite often the cruellest and most intimidating professionals can be accredited up to the eyeballs, while teachers that are wise, gentle and helpful have no formal paper qualifications or certificates but have worked wonders to build up confidence of their students- and also helped them achieve professional success. And equally there’s a lot of overlap in between.

 

There are many in the dance world who feel that the ballet boarding school model we have in this country is flawed, when children and teens training in such a physical art form far away from home need the support of a loving family even more. In the USA and Australia the boarding school approach is usually reserved for upper school age only (age 16-19) and students still have the option of living outside the school and staying with family, a parent-appointed guardian,  or relatives if they wish. Many of the world’s most successful dancers never trained in a ballet boarding school between age 11 to 16 (or even 18) but were either day students or did all their training after school. 

 

I don't think it’s ballet that we need to stop watching or supporting, as there are lots of very good schools and teachers around the world (and some parts  of the U.K.) whose students are not subjected to the harmful mind games and bad science that these very unlucky students were, but it’s more that the harmful approaches in some ballet schools need to be stopped.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Emeralds

[Emeralds]

3 hours ago, Ondine said:

 

I posed the question so we could have a reasoned and hopefully informed discussion, yes. 

 

I can also see some of the perspective of schools which 'assess out'. That one is so difficult.

 

Matthew Ball's mother was at White Lodge and was 'assessed out' after a year as she grew too tall.  That's public info BTW.  I can see the ramifications of that from both sides. It's out of the control of any human how tall they grow (without medical intervention).

 

 

 

 

Without wanting to put her in the spotlight unfairly, I wonder if Mrs Ball is taller than Ulyana Lopatkina, Ariana Lallone, or Sangeun Lee, all of whom are taller or much taller than the average height of female dancers, but went on to become principal dancers and audience favourites. I do think that often the wrong students are assessed out. If RBS still offers GCSEs, why not let the student continue to 16 but let the student and parents decide if they want to leave the school? 

[Tango Dancer]

6 hours ago, Anna C said:

 

Anyone can set up a “Ballet School”.  There can be one or two “Directors”, but there is no requirement for a 16+ “school” to be inspected.  These privately run enterprises can do whatever they want, with zero accountability.  There is no board of governors, nobody independent to hear complaints, no comeback.  They are free to do whatever they wish, including bully, shame, and abuse.
 

Should we regulate and inspect ballet training?  I think so.  Should Teachers have to take regular courses in best practice and appropriate handling of students?  Again, yes, imo.  You can have been THE most wonderful dancer but still not be a good teacher.   Should proven abusive teachers/staff be removed, as they have in gymnastics?  Yes. Should we do away with Lower School training, especially boarding schools where parents may only see their child in person once or twice a term?  Perhaps.  Should schools support talented students through puberty, instead of assessing out?  I think so.

 

Should we punish dancers who have made it into the company by stopping watching them?  No.  What would that achieve?

 

 

 

I would definitely favour more regulation of ballet schools (and other dance schools) especially for over 16s.  Pretty much anyone can set up a dance school.  As someone who does ballet, tango and bellydance there is very little regulation of whether people can teach and how good there are it. Even in adult dance there is scope for mistreatment and harassment (and there are a fair number of Latin teachers I've had who were renowned for letching / perving on any students who were remotely attractive to them).  I've told a teacher to piss off and stop groping my behind but I'm a stroppy middle aged terrible amateur with nothing to lose.  It's a lot harder to stand up to a teacher if you're 16 and depend on them for career options.  So I definitely think there should be more oversight.  

 

I'd also definitely favour proper training for all dance teachers and continued professional development.  Even in adult ballet I've had some terrible teachers (including one who obviously didn't want plump middle aged women in her class and did not hide this fact) who didn't know how to explain movements and didn't do safe warm up or stretching. Anyone teaching in a school or with juveniles should be regularly retrained on best practice and particularly on how to support and nurture children through puberty.   

 

Children in boarding schools are so much more vulnerable so there needs to be more protection, better safeguarding and support. They also need to be able to raise concerns safely and be supported.  I would also favour more guidance on alternative careers for those who may not be able to realise their dreams to help them understand where they might go.   

[Ondine]

3 hours ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Many teachers who have Exam Board accreditation have little experience or knowledge outside their board. So not necessarily able to teach beyond the basics.

 Do you mean by 'exam board' RAD, ISTD etc? I'm sure even to gain the lowest teaching accreditation,  first rungs of a ladder,  is for those who have progressed themselves beyond the basics? Then of course there are higher levels and further qualifications which can be taken. Students can't be entered for exams by those who haven't some form of society / organisation accreditation.

 

In these days of websites, most places which teach ballet are only too keen to list the skills, experiences and qualifications of their teachers,.

[Jazzpaws]

This is a very personal topic to address and I feel so sorry for those young people and their families.

Just talking about classical ballet, from what I’ve observed, most principal dancers are slight of build and generally not very tall. Practical reasons for this as some roles require lifting and often male dancers are not much over 6 foot.

The ballet companies seem to take ladies that are slight if build and not over tall.

The teachers in vocational school are not monsters, they have been in that place and want their students to get selected.

I feel it totally right to address this and feel more should be done at vocational school audition to try and determine growth patterns and height. It is possible to be a very strong, fit, dancer if that is the dancer’s natural build. If this is achieved by over exercise and starvation, physical and mental problems will result.

So at audition it should be made clear if some dancers will never be right for a principal role, but eligible for character roles, contemporary roles etc - this makes the achievement more realistic 

After that all students should be monitored with regards to fitness and dietary requirements. Very graduates achieve permanent contracts and it does make me wonder if filling the numbers is financial gain for the school.

Reslity needs to hit before vocational school is started !

[Linnzi5]

9 hours ago, Ondine said:

I'm choosing my words carefully here.

 

There's an ongoing and long thread in 'Doing Dance' following on from the Panorama documentary last night on BBC TV.

 

Many posters are making claims of appalling abuse at ballet schools. It's not only the two featured, the Royal Ballet School and Elmhurst, there are claims of an all pervasive culture throughout the 'industry' which has allegedly damaged profoundly the lives of numerous young people.

 

Allegedly there is a wall of silence & secrecy surrounding the issue as either so many are too damaged to speak of it or there is the worry that careers will be ruined if they do speak out.

 

If this is the case, then is it right that ballet companies should be supported?  Is taking your children to see Nutcracker watching dancers who are the product of alleged abuse  supporting abuse?

 

It's quite a conundrum and I'm wondering if this alleged lid lifting will alter how forum members view performances and the art of ballet in general.

 

 

Should I no longer support ballet because of the panorama programme? No - I will continue to watch something I love and support the ballet companies and dancers I admire. The dancers I watch are adults and are able to make up their own minds about whether or not their experiences at their schools were positive or not. They are earning their living doing what they love and me not supporting them would be wrong, in my opinion.

 

I'd like to think that if they had very negative experiences that they would not be performing or support their old schools, encourage young people to dance, apply for ballet schools etc. From what I can gather, the ones I follow on social media and have seen interviewed view ballet as their 'life', a true vocation.  I don't think they'd dedicate so much of their time to it if they had been emotionally damaged, as surely they could not do that? They really are such disciplined artists/athletes who appear to have sacrificed a lot to get where they are, as do many artists from other fields too. 

 

Do I support any necessary changes that may come about from the documentary? Absolutely. I work in education and safeguarding is the ONE thing we must get right. As educators (in whichever type of school) our most important job is to keep our pupils safe and that includes protecting them against abuse of any kind from anyone in the school environment (and in their lives generally) - be that physical, emotional or the other types of abuse. This is why we have guidance such as 'Keeping children safe in education' and safeguarding policies. Do things go wrong? Anywhere where humans are involved the answer has to be yes and it would be naive (and potentially negligent) to think otherwise. That's why we have ISI and Ofsted, parents and children (or adults who experienced hardship when pupils) who hopefully will speak out so changes can be made and lessons learned. 

[Ondine]

2 hours ago, Tango Dancer said:

Pretty much anyone can set up a dance school

 Possibly, but surely anyone wishing to attend a dance school would at least check out what expertise and qualifications those teaching have?

 

I'm sure there are insurance issues at play. Also, to enter students for exams & competitions, membership of one of the dance orgs is required, and that's more than simply paying a fee. To put 'letters' after your name involves passing the exams.

 

Reputable organisations will be only to happy to share the requirements / syllabi for those exams.

 

https://www.istd.org/teach/teaching-qualifications/

 

If our 'elite' training institutions are employing those without teaching qualifications, that's a situation which those institutions need to be asked to explain.

 

 

[Geoff]

What an interesting discussion. Three possible analogies, perhaps more food for thought:—
 

1) From the 16th century on there was a European boom in castrati, young boys castrated to inhibit growth of their vocal cords and thyroid glands during puberty to give them a “special” (essentially female) voice. This practice endured into the modern era (one can find a commercial recording on YouTube). This kind of voice was very popular and some of these mutilated performers became superstars. The practice has died out but it seems connoisseurs enjoyed the sound for centuries. Do times move on?

 

2) Some people eat foie gras. Some don’t. Production is banned in, for example, the UK but not, for example, in France. Free choice?
 

3) Modern research into British boarding schools appears conclusive. The work of for example Joy Schaverien and Nick Duffell shows that even if one has a perfect institution (no bullies, no violence, no perverts, letches or other abusers), the simple act of taking a prepubescent or pubescent child out of an intact family to live in a “boarding school” for long periods of time can damage that child for life. Yet British boarding schools - starting from around the age of 7 - have not been banned, and, as charities, even receive state support in the form of tax breaks. Why?

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Geoff

[Ondine]

Interesting analogies, thank you, yes I think there is this moral dimension and are we ignoring that in order that we carry on supporting something we enjoy but which is clearly damaging to so many young people? 

 

With regard to the specific issues raised by the BBC, should we all be speaking out more loudly and with greater clarity to say what has been revealed is unacceptable?  Luke Jennings @LukeJennings did indeed raise related issues a decade or so ago in the Guardian, I linked to his pieces a while ago in another thread. So many drop by the wayside and while no doubt they take up another career eventually, I wonder how diminished some feel, how much they feel they 'failed' and never quite come to terms with what might have been?

 

The 'last of the castrati' recording is indeed on YouTube, a surreal and certainly other worldy sound.

 

For anyone interested, this old piece from the Guardian raises the issues... and the horrors.

 

Revelations that the Vatican encouraged the castration of choir boys in the name of art for hundreds of years have prompted calls for a papal apology.

Human rights groups, historians and Italian commentators said the Pope, a singer himself, should ask forgiveness for his predecessors' role in the mutilation of castrati singers.

New research suggests that the employment of castrati was tolerated by the Vatican as late as 1959, long after other states had banned it as barbaric.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/aug/14/humanities.highereducation

 

My own view on foie gras is that it is not something I eat and I do not condone how it is produced.  I can't separate the cruelty of the production from the product. I'm now questioning my own decades long love of and involvement in the 'world' of ballet when reading of the horrific abuse to which some young people say they have been exposed.

 

Boarding schools. So very British yes. So damaging to many, especially those sent off at seven as used to be common, while others say it was 'the making of them' and loved their time at school. It would be useful to hear from those who were at White Lodge and either loved it or loathed it. Should places like this carry on? Is there a different, better way?

 

Are we kidding ourselves that ballet as an art form can be non damaging to bodies and to minds? We train children from an age where many are not able to really make decisions themselves.

 

These are not easy things to consider but perhaps consider them we should.

 

[Melody]

10 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Without wanting to put her in the spotlight unfairly, I wonder if Mrs Ball is taller than Ulyana Lopatkina, Ariana Lallone, or Sangeun Lee, all of whom are taller or much taller than the average height of female dancers, but went on to become principal dancers and audience favourites. I do think that often the wrong students are assessed out. If RBS still offers GCSEs, why not let the student continue to 16 but let the student and parents decide if they want to leave the school? 

Unfortunately, there seems to still be an element of wanting to grab the shiny object of a young foreign dancer doing well in international competitions, and to do that they have to assess out a home-grown student. I don't see that stopping, although I think it's a shame that home-grown dancing students seem to be regarded in so many ways as expendable. 

 

I think it'd serve several purposes to have these junior schools not be boarding schools - they could take more pupils, some of whom might at some point in their school life be able to transfer to a track that led to a career in the industry but not necessarily as a performer; it'd give children the ability to spend more time outside the hothouse and with supportive parents/relatives/friends who can keep track of their experiences more easily; it'd be cheaper than boarding school for families that can't afford the full boarding fees; and it'd be altogether less elitist and just more normal. But the UK seems to have a culture (not just in performing arts) of boarding schools being regarded as giving the best education.

 

I don't think it'd make a lot of difference for people to boycott the ballet companies, especially in a city like London where there are always loads of tourists who want tickets and have no idea what goes on in the schools. I'm reading in other threads that the ROH seems to be making it harder for core enthusiasts to buy more tickets because they want to encourage a wider range of new audience members. As long as the tickets are selling out, regardless of who's buying them, boycotts by core supporters might not be effective anyway.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Melody

[serenade]

16 hours ago, Ondine said:

You don't think it's a valid question?  Some of the stories from young people are harrowing.  So either it's not really an issue or it is. If it is, then audiences are surely part of any solution? After all, it's the paying public which keeps ballet companies going, and companies are fed into by schools which allegedly are damaging lives.

 

I think it's definitely a valid question as of course it's an issue...so some of my thoughts/ramblings are; if the audience is part of a solution, and that solution would be to stop supporting ballet, then what makes ballet so special?  Surely then you'd have to move on to not consuming any piece of art where either the performers were potentially being mistreated/bullied/abused...or the creator of the art was known to have abused someone else.  As either way, by consuming it you would be supporting lives being damaged.  Then how could you stop at art and media as you'd really have to apply the same logic to everything you consume as if you are consuming it you are indirectly supporting it.  Once you've finished cleansing your life of anything linked to the abuse of people you then might have to move onto anything linked to the abuse of the environment and that would be a full time job in itself.  I feel like you could drive yourself crazy with this logic but I have known people do this and cut out anything they deem to be problematic, it's a personal decision afterall.

 

Just as an anecdote, during the height of the #metoo movement many of my friends stopped watching (and still don't watch) anything linked with Weinstein, anything linked with any of the actors accused and any old/classic films made by or starring anyone with a past history of perpetrating abuse (known or alleged).  They then moved onto books etc.  I continued watching what interested me...I took quite a bit of heat for it at the time as their argument was the same as this- if I was still watching films made by these people then I was supporting the people in question so their logical solution is to stop watching it and that would be the moral thing to do.  Therefore in their eyes I was in the wrong...I don't know if they were right or wrong about that but either way I continued watching/reading what I wanted as art keeps me sane and I feel like life is just too short, I'm not prepared to conduct mini audits on everything and decide if it's something I should or shouldn't consume.  I understand their POV but it's just more complicated than that (for me) as unfortunately life is messy and full of abusers and bullies in every facet of life.  

 

What has happened at the ballet schools is really terrible but in no way surprising.  I'm surprised anyone is surprised to be honest as any field where places are scarce and it's something in the arts or creative has an extremely long history of bad practices.  All I can say is I really hope things change.  I'm truly sorry and sad for anyone treated like this but withdrawing support for the artform seems a tragedy in itself. 

 

 

[JNC]

No.

 

the documentary should be discussed, investigated and more training etc put in place to ensure students aren’t abused/belittled. Being able to take constructive criticism is important, bullying obviously not ok.
 

You can decide to stop supporting ballet if you want to but lots of sensible posts on here explain why your question/line of thinking isn’t helpful and quite unfair to many excellent dancers, teachers, and anyone else involved in the production of ballet and what we see on stage. 
 

I think being a ballet dancer is akin to being a professional athlete and the tough truth is it’s not meant to be physically or mentally easy. If we think ballet should be banned for some of the reasons mentioned, professional sports would have to go that way as well. 
 

As for boarding schools, I personally don’t like them as a concept (when they’re about the elite) but for ballet schools it does make sense - otherwise will the royal ballet school only take Londoners (a city that most families cannot afford to move to!). 
 

Teachers should be supportive but able to give fair, constructive feedback. If this isn’t happening better training/recruitment practices should be installed. Pastoral services including staff who are able to support welfare, and or mental health services (eg therapists) could become part of the dancing school overall programme/offering (if it’s not already). In competitive industries where not everyone can “make it” mental resilience to failure should be taken into account. 

[Drdee]

I think watching the ‘Panorama’ programme and listening to ‘File on 4’ might help some of you better articulate your posts. They do not intend to be insensitive but they could be construed as being so by a reader. 

[Drdee]

Just now, Drdee said:

I think watching the ‘Panorama’ programme and listening to ‘File on 4’ might help some of you better articulate your posts. They do not intend to be insensitive but they could be construed as being so by a reader. 

Just like buying ‘fair trade’ or ethically sourced produce we need to see that there is a ‘dark side’ to current ballet training which could improve.

[capybara]

1 hour ago, Drdee said:

I think watching the ‘Panorama’ programme and listening to ‘File on 4’ might help some of you better articulate your posts.

I think you may be one of the posters on here with more knowledge of the issues from the students’ perspective than many of us. Some other experiences and views differ. But everyone is probably struggling to express themselves in writing, which is always more difficult than being part of an ‘in person’ discussion, especially where really important and sensitive issues are concerned. So we need to give ourselves a bit of understanding and leeway too.

 

To answer Ondine’s original question - absolutely not!