Royal Ballet promotions (and joiners and leavers) 2023!

[Dawnstar]

Musing on what might be the ideal number of Principals for a company? At the moment it feels like the RB has too many - ten women, nine men - while ENB seems rather under-Principaled, certainly on the male side, with only two men & five women.

[TSR101]

I honestly don't think that the RB need more than 6 female and 6 male principals with a stronger cast of first soloists who step up into the non-lead principal roles, and if necessary the lead principal roles. This would give principals more performances and give first soloists possibilities to step up where necessary. However, as I said on another thread, I suspect the RB has deliberately made a choice of later, slower but more promotions to principal to maintain harmony in the company. 

I would add that I am not sure where the next principal promotions are coming from - with the exception of Sissens who seems to be in KOH's spotlight in recent years. There is no one under 25 who I see as pushing forward in the way Hayward was for example with regular promotions in an inevitable march to principal or anyone who takes big leaps from joining from school (e..g Cuthbertson). Definitely no one in the principal by 21 category in the company. 

 

ROH has also seemingly stopped recruiting talent at principal level (or nearly principal level) - Vadim in 2014 potentially the last recruit (? - Corrales a possible inclusion here) which whilst they might be able to fill the principal ranks internally (I would argue overfill) by not recruiting at that level you do miss the future Muntagirovs/Osipovas of this world from joining.

 

[TSR101]

I would add that the overstuffing imo of principals can also act as a disincentive for very talented juniors - when are they going to get a break into a main role if you have 19 principals. If I was a truly outstanding 17yo dancer just about to leave school, there is no chance I would join the RB if I had other good options. I would know RB wouldn't promote me quickly and I would know that almost no principal roles would be given to me for years. Someone like Casalinho would probably still be getting basic corps roles in the RB. 

[capybara]

4 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

I would add that the overstuffing imo of principals can also act as a disincentive for very talented juniors - when are they going to get a break into a main role if you have 19 principals. If I was a truly outstanding 17yo dancer just about to leave school, there is no chance I would join the RB if I had other good options. I would know RB wouldn't promote me quickly and I would know that almost no principal roles would be given to me for years. Someone like Casalinho would probably still be getting basic corps roles in the RB. 

Well Casalinho and Sellman have both weighed up the situation and have made ‘better’ career choices for them.

[Ondine]

6 minutes ago, capybara said:

Casalinho and Sellma

 

Were they offered a place at the RB and turned it down?

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, TSR101 said:

I would add that I am not sure where the next principal promotions are coming from - with the exception of Sissens who seems to be in KOH's spotlight in recent years. There is no one under 25 who I see as pushing forward in the way Hayward was for example with regular promotions in an inevitable march to principal or anyone who takes big leaps from joining from school (e..g Cuthbertson). Definitely no one in the principal by 21 category in the company.

 

Am I right in thinking that the last Principal by 21 was Polunin? Given that didn't exactly work out, to put it politely, I wonder if that made the RB have a re-think about very rapid promotions of very young dancers to Principal? At the moment the dancers who are getting opportunities to take on lead roles all seem to be mid-late 20s. I'd add Richardson, Sasaki & Dias to Sissens in that category, though whether they make it to Principal or get stuck at First Soloist level remains to be seen. Given all 6 of the current female First Soloists are mid 30s or older there will presumably be vacancies at that level fairly soon due to retirements.

[art_enthusiast]

1 hour ago, TSR101 said:

I would add that I am not sure where the next principal promotions are coming from - with the exception of Sissens who seems to be in KOH's spotlight in recent years.

 

I agree. I would say next promotions to principal (male) would be Joseph Sissens and presumably Calvin Richardson. (Luca Acri maybe...? I really like him.)

 

Female - much more difficult to say. Mariko Sasaki, Isabella Gasparini, Annette Buvoli maybe? 

 

There is such great talent at the soloist level - Joonhyuk Jun, Sae Maeda, Ashley Dean, Leitia Dias etc. And indeed at the First Artist/Artist levels as well - I really want to see more of them going up.

 

 

[TSR101]

Just now, Dawnstar said:

 

Am I right in thinking that the last Principal by 21 was Polunin? Given that didn't exactly work out, to put it politely, I wonder if that made the RB have a re-think about very rapid promotions of very young dancers to Principal? At the moment the dancers who are getting opportunities to take on lead roles all seem to be mid-late 20s. I'd add Richardson, Sasaki & Dias to Sissens in that category, though whether they make it to Principal or get stuck at First Soloist level remains to be seen. Given all 6 of the current female First Soloists are mid 30s or older there will presumably be vacancies at that level fairly soon due to retirements.

 

I don't think you analysis is particularly strong here. Whilst you are right about Polunin, evidence suggests he is a statistical anomaly rather than a trend. Overall in ballet (not just RB) those promoted early are often stars for the long term. This has also been the case with RB - Ferri/Cojocaru/Nunez/Bussell all very young and all went on to be star ballerinas in the long term. There are a lot of factors that play into Polunin's fall from grace, most of them personal to Polunin. 

 

The simple truth is that a ballerina will most likely be in their physical prime 23-29 after that there is (hopefully) a slow descent in physical capability (niggles last longer, recovery takes longer etc), injuries permitting. At the same time, the artistic ability of a dancer, where they know the principal role, can really own it, have the experience of doing different principal roles, often comes with experience - therefore I would argue its logical that those who get those opportunities for longer because they are promoted earlier, combined with talent, combined with the youthful athleticism of learning in your physical prime are often in a strong position. 

 

 

 

 

[art_enthusiast]

8 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

though whether they make it to Principal or get stuck at First Soloist level remains to be seen

 

Exactly. As there are quite a few great dancers stuck at First Soloist level (Melissa Hamilton/Claire Calvert/Yuhui Choe being the longest standing ones) it makes it so much harder to predict how promotions actually work.

[TSR101]

IMO, the biggest loss recently to RB is not signing up Olga Smirnova rather than losing young talent. First, because she is brilliant (and imo better than many of the female principals currently at RB) but also because it would have placed RB back in the public discourse, a reminder of when the great soviet stars left Russia and made their home at the RB. It would have added excitement that for all their brilliance the likes of Morera and Magri can't bring and it would have brought press attention (Olga's departure made the newspapers in the UK and she was moving to Holland, imagine if she had like Nureyev before here departed a tyrannical Russia regime to dance at the RB). I don't know the personal reasons for Smirnova's choice, but its sad that RB didn't have the pull factor to bring her over.  

[Guest oncnp]

2 minutes ago, TSR101 said:

I I don't know the personal reasons for Smirnova's choice, but its sad that RB didn't have the pull factor to bring her over.  

Perhaps she didn't want to come? 

Edited November 26, 2023 by oncnp

[TSR101]

5 minutes ago, oncnp said:

Perhaps she didn't want to come? 

 

Yes, that is what I alluded too with not having the pull factor. 

[Guest oncnp]

Just now, TSR101 said:

 

Yes, that is what I alluded too with not having the pull factor. 

 

What I meant is that not everyone's life ambition is to dance for the RB or live in London. 

[capybara]

No spare capacity in the upper ranks of the RB to invite Smirnova.

Surely, there is no need to manufacture an alternative scenario?

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by capybara

[Tango Dancer]

31 minutes ago, oncnp said:

 

What I meant is that not everyone's life ambition is to dance for the RB or live in London. 

 

Yes.  I mean Amsterdam is quite a pleasant place to live and I think slightly cheaper to live in than London (rents definitely being lower).  It has good public transport, good shops and the Netherlands is compact and easy to reach the rest of Europe from.  It's one of the places I'd probably choose if I were looking to live abroad.  So I'm not surprised someone might choose Amsterdam over London.  

[Pas de Quatre]

Or do they have more a more exciting repertoire, and better productions of the classics?

[Benjamin]

13 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

Or do they have more a more exciting repertoire, and better productions of the classics?

Yes they do! If you look at their 23/24 repertoire it’s half half with exciting modern works and classics that are updated productions. Most exiting (presumably) for dancers is that they don’t do Nutcracker every year (Raymonda is on this Christmas).

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, TSR101 said:

I don't think you analysis is particularly strong here. 

 

The simple truth is that a ballerina will most likely be in their physical prime 23-29 after that there is (hopefully) a slow descent in physical capability (niggles last longer, recovery takes longer etc), injuries permitting.

 

I wouldn't dignify it with the term analysis! It was just a suggestion of a possible reason.

 

If that really is the case then it is quite depressing, given every RB Principal apart from Clarke & Corrales is already 29 or over!

[FionaM]

Olga Smirnova did say in interviews that she’d been in discussion with the AD in Amsterdam prior to February 2022.  So perhaps there wasn’t any opportunity for other companies to approach her.  Even if they could ‘find space’ for another principal.  
 

Separately I do think the idea of less principals is risky … there are always going to be injuries and allowances made for maternity leave.  Within the last year, at least 4 principals have been out for long periods with injuries … Sambe, McRae, Corrales, Takada.   Osipova is vulnerable to injury and illness.  Cuthbertson has been on maternity leave.  Plus first soloists Mendizabal and Calvert also out on maternity.  Having up to 8 dancers of your senior ranks unavailable does make a dent in the optically large numbers in the top two ranks.  
 

[FionaM]

ENB 2023 annnouncement of promotions etc had Poppy Frankel on their leaving list.  
 

RB have spelt her surname incorrectly 🙄

 

https://instagram.com/poppyballerina?igshid=MTk0NTkyODZkYg==
 

 

[art_enthusiast]

Could anyone tell me who Lara Turk is? I see her down as a first artist but I don’t think I’ve seen her on stage much this year/last year. Ditto Kevin Emerton, I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen him perform. Most of the other artists/first artists/soloists I do recognise.

[alison]

Emerton was doing character parts last year, I think, but I'm sure he was cast in something (presumably Don Q?) this season.  I haven't registered Turk recently.

[zxDaveM]

1 minute ago, art_enthusiast said:

Could anyone tell me who Lara Turk is? I see her down as a first artist but I don’t think I’ve seen her on stage much this year/last year. Ditto Kevin Emerton, I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen him perform. Most of the other artists/first artists/soloists I do recognise.

 

Lara is a lovely dancer, who has been starting a family, and so has been restricted to more character roles of late when she has been on stage (unattibuted type roles). I like her a lot, so had been hoping she would return to dancing properly. I saw her in the Linbury audience a couple of weeks back, and she certainly looks fit enough to my eye

Kevin has been injured I believe, but I don't know much else

[LinMM]

I remember Lara Turk from some years back now and have underlined her name in a couple of programmes along with Yasmine Naghdi and Olivia Cowley but it was quite a while ago. She never seemed to progress like Olivia beyond soloist. 

[bridiem]

8 hours ago, FionaM said:

Separately I do think the idea of less principals is risky … there are always going to be injuries and allowances made for maternity leave.  Within the last year, at least 4 principals have been out for long periods with injuries … Sambe, McRae, Corrales, Takada.   Osipova is vulnerable to injury and illness.  Cuthbertson has been on maternity leave.  Plus first soloists Mendizabal and Calvert also out on maternity.  Having up to 8 dancers of your senior ranks unavailable does make a dent in the optically large numbers in the top two ranks.  

 

That's true, but in the past injuries have often meant opportunities for more junior dancers. I suppose maternity leave is different because it's long (and getting more common), and unfortunately nowadays dancers often seem to get more serious injuries and are off for longer. All very difficult.

[FionaM]

Maternity leave should be common, expected and not an issue when it happens.  Fortunately this seems well accepted in our companies now.  I am always pleased to see pregnant ballerinas in class or coaching on World Ballet Day.  

[FionaM]

According to ROH collections website Lara Turk has had 513 attributed roles!  I particularly enjoyed her in the white pdd from Les Patineurs.  

[DVDfan]

I may be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that in the past, most serious injuries meant retirement. Now improved medical treatments and rehab facilities mean that dancers can come back, but after lengthy periods of sick leave. 

 

Maternity leave should absolutely be normal, I wouldn't want to watch ballet if it were still the case that ballerinas had to resort to abortion to keep their careers going.  And we'd loose a lot of talent if the ladies who wanted a family had to retire first.

[Dawnstar]

3 hours ago, alison said:

Emerton was doing character parts last year, I think, but I'm sure he was cast in something (presumably Don Q?) this season.  I haven't registered Turk recently.

 

I don't recall seeing him on either any of the cast lists or the stage for Don Q. I started wondering part-way through the run where he was & assumed he must be off injured. (I hope he's not left as well as the other absentee I'd been wondering about, Tomas Mock, as the RB needs some dancers to do the smaller character roles!)

 

1 hour ago, FionaM said:

According to ROH collections website Lara Turk has had 513 attributed roles!  I particularly enjoyed her in the white pdd from Les Patineurs.  

 

Isn't that performances rather than roles? I find it hard to believe that any dancer could notch up over 500 different roles even if they had a career the length of Elizabeth McGorian or Michael Coleman!

[FionaM]

@Dawnstar yes you are right I should have said ‘attributed performances’.  Of course she would have been in many more corps de ballet parts where the individuals were not listed.  

[Odyssey]

There is at least one recent promotion to principal level that I think was not ready for the promotion. I’d be interested to know if the current ratio of principals to other ranks is unusual, somehow I suspect not, particularly if you include regular guest artists. I would much prefer a smaller number, with more frequent opportunities for these dancers to develop their interpretations and perhaps take on less roles in a season. I really dislike the current approach where virtually every principal is cast in a role, regardless of whether they suit the role. It would also follow that first soloists would be able to have more opportunities. I know several forum members are against the idea of regular guest artists, but reciprocal arrangements with companies, at both principal and first soloist levels seem to me a win win solution. 

[Dawnstar]

22 minutes ago, Odyssey said:

There is at least one recent promotion to principal level that I think was not ready for the promotion. I’d be interested to know if the current ratio of principals to other ranks is unusual, somehow I suspect not, particularly if you include regular guest artists. I would much prefer a smaller number, with more frequent opportunities for these dancers to develop their interpretations and perhaps take on less roles in a season. I really dislike the current approach where virtually every principal is cast in a role, regardless of whether they suit the role. It would also follow that first soloists would be able to have more opportunities. I know several forum members are against the idea of regular guest artists, but reciprocal arrangements with companies, at both principal and first soloist levels seem to me a win win solution. 

 

I'd be very interested to know who this is, as it feels like the recent promotions to Principal have been greeted with a general feeling of "About time too" rather than "Hmm, maybe a bit soon".

 

Personally the only Principal promotion that came perhaps a bit sooner than I was expecting was Magri & that was just because I thought maybe she'd be expected to get a few more of the big classics under her belt before promotion (admittedly were it not for covid she would have done Swan Lake 2 years earlier). I was very much hoping that she'd make Principal at some point.

 

I agree that the casting almost every Principal in every role has on occasion not worked out, though I suppose in some cases it's difficult to know if someone is going to work in a role or not until they've actually performed it. And even then opinions may differ as to whether or not it has worked!

[zxDaveM]

36 minutes ago, Odyssey said:

There is at least one recent promotion to principal level that I think was not ready for the promotion.

 

Perhaps they got that promotion to stop them moving to another company, as it was felt they'd blossom over the coming years and so be established as 'older' already established Principals started retiring...