Post Graduate Courses - anywhere!

[Iris]

Hi,

My daughter is due to graduate from her ballet dance school this July. She started there in the September (aged 16) before the pandemic and in total has spent 8 months of her training dancing in our dining room on Zoom.

We are being realistic and don't expect her to be successful in finding a contract with a company.

Could anyone suggest ballet companies that have training programs that allow trainees to get stage experience for their CV's.  We understand that these need to be paid for and you are dancing with the company for free but she really feels that she needs another year of training.

She is willing to travel anywhere to do this!

Many Thanks 

[Anna C]

Hi Iris and welcome.  Post-graduate programmes I can think of off the top of my head are:

 

Northern Ballet:  https://northernballet.com/academy/professional-training/professional-graduate--programme

Royal Conservatoire of Scotland:  https://www.rcs.ac.uk/courses/professional-graduate-diploma-modern-ballet/

Ballet Cymru:  https://welshballet.co.uk/take-part/pre-professional-programme/

London Studio Centre:  https://www.londonstudiocentre.org/course/ma-dance-performance/

and (more Contemporary) Rambert:  https://www.rambertschool.org.uk/courses/postgraduate-courses/ma-degree-rambert2/

 

There are bound to be more, but these are the ones I know of.

 

 

 

 

[Pas de Quatre]

I am not sure if many companies run their own post graduate scheme, it is more that they use pupils from a post graduate course at their own school or one they know. 

 

Kings International Ballet School have been advertising that they are currently auditioning for their post graduate course.

English National Ballet School did run one previously but I don't know if they are now.

 

[Lifeafterballet]

Check out school Graduate destination lists from previous years, you will find a lot of those listed are ‘junior companies’ or ‘pre professional programs’ in Europe and the US. These are ones you have to pay for. Arles and Francois Mauduit in France spring to mind. Then there is Barcelona which is discussed on another thread. 
You could look at ESB in Amsterdam, they seem to do a trainee program but with no company attached. Sadly I think what you are looking for is gold dust and very highly sort after as there are virtually no paid contracts about. The very best of luck though x

[Mummy twinkle toes]

You might also consider the USA. Some offer year round training programmes with option of auditioning for their apprentice ballet companies. Milwaukee is one option and takes up to 22 years of age: https://www.milwaukeeballet.org/the-company/mbii/mbii-program-details/

 

[Justkeepsmiling]

 

• 
   

Mummy Twinkle Toes, do you know how much these American post-grad courses cost? I tried to find it in the Milwaukee Ballet one but can only find the cost of the pre-professional programme which I assume is similar to the U.K. upper school training.

 

I also see that the auditions for this are done at their Summer Intensive and I assume many of these American ones are the same. It is a lot of money to be spending on an SI to possibly not even be offered a place in the post grad programme, especially as the cost of travel to auditions in final year is already very expensive.

 

With a dd in upper school, I dread to think of how much we will need to outlay in the next few years!!!

1 hour ago, Mummy twinkle toes said:

Apologies- I haven’t quite worked out how to quote your post 😂

[Mummy twinkle toes]

3 hours ago, Justkeepsmiling said:

 

 

• 
   

Mummy Twinkle Toes, do you know how much these American post-grad courses cost? I tried to find it in the Milwaukee Ballet one but can only find the cost of the pre-professional programme which I assume is similar to the U.K. upper school training.

 

Apologies- I haven’t quite worked out how to quote your post 😂

I am not sure how much they are- sorry. The sister US forum to this one may have some more information https://dancers.invisionzone.com

Failing that you could email them. I know many US schools do like people to attend their SIs but some are still offering virtual options/auditions.

 

 

[Mummy twinkle toes]

Just seen they are accepting video auditions to be considered for the company or their 2nd apprentice one. 
https://www.milwaukeeballet.org/the-company/careers/auditions/

 

[Blue Box Ballet]

English National Ballet School 

 

http://www.enbschool.org.uk/editorial.php?ref=enbs-professional-trainee-programme

[Iris]

Thank you for all your replies - really appreciate it.

[Peanut68]

1 hour ago, Blue Box Ballet said:

English National Ballet School 

 

http://www.enbschool.org.uk/editorial.php?ref=enbs-professional-trainee-programme

[Peanut68]

Any idea of likely fees for this?

Thanks 

Indeed the likely fees for any of these ‘graduate’ type programmes or pay to do ‘apprenticeship’  type programmes…do they tend to run along a school year basis (eg. Sept-July I’m 3 terms in UK? Not a clue about overseas timings though looking at the Milwaukee link their Summer intensive starts in June so way earlier than UK schools break….

Am finding this all very depressing….graduates by the very name suggests to me training is complete & our dancers should be job ready & able to earn money….Are we all just prolonging the agony of realisation that there are too many adequate dancers for too few jobs? 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Peanut68
To add

[Lifeafterballet]

19 minutes ago, Peanut68 said:

Any idea of likely fees for this?

Thanks 

£10,000 I read when it first started, happy to be corrected. 

[Peanut68]

Just now, cotes du rhone ! said:

£10,000 I read when it first started, happy to be corrected. 

😱

[Peanut68]

Mind you, looks like a 6 week summer intensive in USA wouldn’t give much change from £10k either….😱😱😱

[FlexyNexy]

When my DD did Ellison,  it was $4k for summer. I know other junior contracts in NY that have been asking over $12k basic (9 month contract), others ar around $8.

 

That is just fees, most will not help with visas,  accommodation and it will very likely not lead to full time employment as many companies now are even mentioning (must have green card or permit to work). 

 

My DD had offers, but sadly we had to decline as our US embassy would not cooperate. 

[Kate_N]

For the USA, it’s really worth reading the wealth of information available on Ballet Talk for Dancers. I

 

I also notice that big studios such as Steps on Broadway (in New York) offer student visa programmes (the students are staffing the reception desk when I check in for class there when I’m in NYC). But I don’t know if there’s a coherent curriculum, or just “do all the classes you can manage” sort of training. That said, Steps has some extraordinary ballet teachers at the Advanced/Pro level, and it’s well-known that NYCB and ABT dancers drop in to work with their favourite teachers. But there’s no company attached.

[Dancing unicorn]

RCS

Does anyone know if the compulsory contemporary variation can be your own or does it have to be from Rep?? I’ve googled and can’t find any info

Thank you 

[Peanut68]

8 hours ago, Kate_N said:

For the USA, it’s really worth reading the wealth of information available on Ballet Talk for Dancers. I

 

I also notice that big studios such as Steps on Broadway (in New York) offer student visa programmes (the students are staffing the reception desk when I check in for class there when I’m in NYC). But I don’t know if there’s a coherent curriculum, or just “do all the classes you can manage” sort of training. That said, Steps has some extraordinary ballet teachers at the Advanced/Pro level, and it’s well-known that NYCB and ABT dancers drop in to work with their favourite teachers. But there’s no company attached.

You don’t mention if these so called students pay or are paid….eg. Do they get classes free as ‘payment in kind’? I imagine it’s hugely expensive tk live in NYC for any visiting student too…a nice experience & quite likely some fab training but would it lead to job opportunities? Difficult where USA & work visas are concerned I guess…. All nice dreams but reality & bank balance check probably prohibits looking at anything in USA or indeed anything requiring funding…. Might suggest that career change to plumbing again 🤣

[Loulou]

22 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Thanks 

Indeed the likely fees for any of these ‘graduate’ type programmes or pay to do ‘apprenticeship’  type programmes…do they tend to run along a school year basis (eg. Sept-July I’m 3 terms in UK? Not a clue about overseas timings though looking at the Milwaukee link their Summer intensive starts in June so way earlier than UK schools break….

Am finding this all very depressing….graduates by the very name suggests to me training is complete & our dancers should be job ready & able to earn money….Are we all just prolonging the agony of realisation that there are too many adequate dancers for too few jobs? 

My dd is currently doing a pre professional programme in Europe, albeit in contemporary, she graduated last year and missed 2 of the 9 degree terms of studio training due to covid, plus there were virtually no jobs being advertised, so we agreed to one more year of funding her but that was it, she either needs a paid job or a “ normal” job which she readily agrees with. It was about a third cheaper for the fees than anything in the uk and her rent and what we give her to live on is what we were paying for her rent alone for her degree, so we just saw it as a 4th year of training , keeping her training up whilst applying for jobs . There are a lot more jobs being advertised this year, compared to last year, if it doesn’t work out, she will at least have got go live and dance in a beautiful city, but we all fully accept this will be the end of the road if she doesn’t get a job. She is also a qualified RAD teacher so that is an option.  Oh and her course is 10 months, Oct to June, only break is 2 weeks at Xmas, not sure about Easter at the moment. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Loulou

[Kat09]

You could check out balletcat.com (ballet de catalunya) 

we know of a dancer who was there for a year who moved to ballet de montecarlo  and is now with Bordeaux Ballet. She highly rated her time with ballet de catalunya.

good luck to your DD

[Jan McNulty]

The latest news item on the Northern Ballet website is inviting applications for the company's pre-professional graduate programme:

 

https://northernballet.com/academy/professional-training/professional-graduate-programme/apply--to-the-professional-graduate-

 

As well as the young lady shown on the page the following company dancers came through this programme into the company:  Dominique LaRose (first soloist), Filippo di Vilio (junior soloist), Albert Gonzalez Orts, Aurora Piccininni, Harriet Marden, Julie Nunès, 

 

Obviously doing this programme does not guarantee a job.

[DMumCSB2019]

On 28/02/2022 at 09:16, Iris said:

Hi,

My daughter is due to graduate from her ballet dance school this July. She started there in the September (aged 16) before the pandemic and in total has spent 8 months of her training dancing in our dining room on Zoom.

We are being realistic and don't expect her to be successful in finding a contract with a company.

Could anyone suggest ballet companies that have training programs that allow trainees to get stage experience for their CV's.  We understand that these need to be paid for and you are dancing with the company for free but she really feels that she needs another year of training.

She is willing to travel anywhere to do this!

Many Thanks 

Same situation as you, but my daughter really wants to perform now and get paid but little to nothing available.

[FlexyNexy]

13 hours ago, DMumCSB2019 said:

Same situation as you, but my daughter really wants to perform now and get paid but little to nothing available.

same boat with you and my DD. Only offers getting right now are the ones I would have to heavily subsidise. My DD refused them all as she can’t stand another year of dancing for free in exchange for "exposure".

[Iris]

Just finding the whole thing so stressful. DD has now had 1 offer for a training programme that we would have to pay for. If Covid hadn't had happened I don't think we would even consider it but we feel like we should give her one more year to make up for the training she missed. DD on the other hand is already looking at plan B! 

[FlexyNexy]

58 minutes ago, Iris said:

Just finding the whole thing so stressful. DD has now had 1 offer for a training programme that we would have to pay for. If Covid hadn't had happened I don't think we would even consider it but we feel like we should give her one more year to make up for the training she missed. DD on the other hand is already looking at plan B! 

this is what we have done last year...getting offers straight after graduating...being unlucky with visas hence proper offers went out of air... accepted junior artist/ trainee for a year to try and stay in training and we now know that it leads nowhere. Wasted my money, time and my DD is setting plan B in motion.
She has earned more working during covid as a hostess @ Wembley Stadium during world cup than one year in Ballet.

[Iris]

Do you mind me asking where your DD trained? Did you get much help from the school with applications etc.

[Emmajayne]

Plan B for us! 

[Peanut68]

6 hours ago, FlexyNexy said:

this is what we have done last year...getting offers straight after graduating...being unlucky with visas hence proper offers went out of air... accepted junior artist/ trainee for a year to try and stay in training and we now know that it leads nowhere. Wasted my money, time and my DD is setting plan B in motion.
She has earned more working during covid as a hostess @ Wembley Stadium during world cup than one year in Ballet.

I’m clicking ‘like’ but really it’s more as a sign of solidarity as if course I don’t like hearing how hard & demoralising thus journey is for yours & so many of our young dancers & indeed their families…

I think I suggested on this forum before that we all should join forces to create our own company of dancers….we have the talented offspring, I bet between us all the knowledge & contacts is immense & boy we know the pitfalls of training & the industry & how to ensure fair & happy & healthy treatment (& those people/places to perhaps avoid….!) 

BTW, I am actually serious if anyone else has thoughts on this…. After all, most dance companies started small & many as a way to self create opportunities as so few out there! 

[glowlight]

Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a 'Balletco' ballet company!

 

I think the main problem would be how to fund it so that you could pay the dancers a decent salary - otherwise you are back into the vicious circle of asking dancers to perform for nothing. 

 

If you are serious about this I would suggest the first step is to think about how many dancers you would need to make a viable company, and what basis you would want to employ them - maybe half a dozen dancers for a short project (a couple of months) would be a good place to start.

 

Then think about how much it would cost to employ them, and how much you might need to spend on venues, costumes, insurance etc.  

 

What do you think you could bring in in ticket sales for the performances?  And any other revenue streams (maybe merchandising - not sure what else)

 

Once you have a bit of a budget together then start to look for grant funding to get it started.  Or crowd funding?

 

Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs - this is just my initial thoughts on where I would start if I was looking to set up something like this.

[Beezie]

This appears to be Contemporary and Choreography, but the world needs more lady choreographers.  https://www.parts.be/studios2021

[Ruby Foo]

44 minutes ago, glowlight said:

Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a 'Balletco' ballet company!

 

I think the main problem would be how to fund it so that you could pay the dancers a decent salary - otherwise you are back into the vicious circle of asking dancers to perform for nothing. 

 

If you are serious about this I would suggest the first step is to think about how many dancers you would need to make a viable company, and what basis you would want to employ them - maybe half a dozen dancers for a short project (a couple of months) would be a good place to start.

 

Then think about how much it would cost to employ them, and how much you might need to spend on venues, costumes, insurance etc.  

 

What do you think you could bring in in ticket sales for the performances?  And any other revenue streams (maybe merchandising - not sure what else)

 

Once you have a bit of a budget together then start to look for grant funding to get it started.  Or crowd funding?

 

Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs - this is just my initial thoughts on where I would start if I was looking to set up something like this.

Maybe the first hurdle would be,

what do people want to watch?

what would motivate people to part with their hard earned cash? Not easy at a time like this, when many people can't  even afford to heat their homes. Only understanding this, would lead to running a completely sustainable company, not so reliant on grants and funding and sponsorship which can never be guaranteed.

Traditional companies are struggling. Thinking out of the box in the way that someone did when they realised we didn't need expensive estate agents to sell homes.

Maybe something more interactive where the audience are in the driving seat. Something different and risky and courageous, but without giving up the core values of dance. 

[Pointe]

My dc is in the same situation but really can’t face a 4th year of training. Can’t help but think it’s another year of prolonging the agony? Does anyone have an idea of realistic salary even if get a job?