English National Ballet - change of leadership discussion

[Emeralds]

44 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

I'm sorry Emeralds I laughed out loud at this.  ENB tour to Liverpool, Manchester, Southampton and (occasionally) Bristol.  That is hardly many cities and regions.  Additionally they only now tour the UK in the Autumn.

 

I'm not quite sure when ACE carved up the country but ENB, BRB and NB have their own regions apart, for some reason, from Southampton where they all go.

 

BRB tours to Sunderland, Salford, Plymouth, Southampton (and they have been to Plymouth in the recent past.

 

NB tours to Sheffield, (occasionally) Hull, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Salford, Norwich, Southampton, Milton Keynes, Belfast, Newcastle, Nottingham, Woking.

 

Obviously they all also have dates in London.

 

 

Don’t be sorry, Jan- I think it’s worth pointing out again what little there is, which I do feel is not a good state of affairs. However little ENB does in Britain or indeed England alone outside London, the fact is that they have the large number of dancers, the costumes, sets,  orchestra, and the big scale classical productions that do tour (no complex stage effects but they do have scenery).

 

I wish someone could say “Emeralds, you got it wrong, Manchester/Nottingham/Newcastle/Liverpool/Bristol are all well served by company X bringing three full length classics with live orchestra every year, they don’t need ENB on top of all that”, but the fact is, often it’s just BRB or ENB, not both, with one full length production or very very occasionally two and some years  it’s nothing. Northern Ballet doesn’t do the full length traditional classics the way RB/BRB/ENB do.

 

You’re right in that “some” is probably a better choice of description than “many”, or “many in certain cities or regions” rather than “many cities” etc. The point is that if ENB were changed to a niche company like the former Ballet Frankfurt or Forsythe Dance Company under Forsythe, those cities will get even less classical ballet than they currently do. 

 

I think while people are discussing Rojo’s achievements, of which there are of course a number, one thing that has made me uncomfortable is the increase in international touring and the cut in regional touring. Yes, she did say  touring in the UK has made ENB lose money. But the company has already performed at the Paris Opera, Bolshoi, Barcelona, South America, USA. Why the need to do more to the detriment of performances in British regions (and what about Wales and Scotland) and now London. 

 

The leadership might say, we need to earn the money on foreign tours to help survive. But without U.K. taxpayers’ funds, they won’t be here in the first place. So I do think that more cities in the UK need to be covered by their touring. If it’s too expensive to tour Sleeping Beauty or Skeaping’s Giselle, at least bring Blake Works/Playlist around the country for two shows in 7 cities, rather than 13 shows in 1 city (London). It’s cheaper- doesn’t need an orchestra or bulky sets and costumes like tutus and boots.

 

[Emeralds]

1 hour ago, alison said:

Hmm, I keep seeing a lack of one name (slightly, at least) associated with ENB, or rather LFB, being mentioned.  But perhaps they aren't interested.

Intrigued now, Alison! Hmm....Alain Dubreuil? Maina Gielgud? Jayne Mulligan? 

 

I assume we’re not counting people who were former ADs. Go on, spill. 😊

 

(Presumably not Hope Muir, who only just started at NBC.) 

[capybara]

1 hour ago, Beryl H said:

What a wonderful list of possibilities FLOSS, I hope one of the above gets the job!

There are dozens more throughout the thread for the selection committee to choose from 😉

 

1 hour ago, alison said:

Hmm, I keep seeing a lack of one name (slightly, at least) associated with ENB, or rather LFB, being mentioned.  But perhaps they aren't interested.

 

Are you thinking of Maina Gielgud? She’s now in her mid/late seventies and happily mounting or coaching ballets all over the world.

[Emeralds]

2 minutes ago, capybara said:

There are dozens more throughout the thread for the selection committee to choose from 😉

 

 

Are you thinking of Maina Gielgud? She’s now in her mid/late seventies and happily mounting or coaching ballets all over the world.

I thought of Maina when the vacancy was announced, but having been around to see the stresses and challenges when she was mounting ballets at ENB, I thought she might not want to do it in her seventies.....that said, I did hope the board might have approached her out of courtesy to invite her to apply at least, given her long career as a principal with them and her service to the company as coach and repetiteur. 

[Lizbie1]

8 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

 I think while people are discussing Rojo’s achievements, of which there are of course a number, one thing that has made me uncomfortable is the increase in international touring and the cut in regional touring. Yes, she did say  touring in the UK has made ENB lose money. But the company has already performed at the Paris Opera, Bolshoi, Barcelona, South America, USA. Why the need to do more to the detriment of performances in British regions (and what about Wales and Scotland) and now London. 

 

The leadership might say, we need to earn the money on foreign tours to help survive. But without U.K. taxpayers’ funds, they won’t be here in the first place.

 

 

This bothers me too, and I would like to know how much money foreign tours bring in. It was my understanding that foreign tours can't be counted on to be profitable - so unless Akram Khan's Giselle (because it's usually that) has enough cachet to attract substantial sponsorship and/or high ticket prices  I don't understand how the numbers add up.

[Jan McNulty]

4 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

but the fact is, often it’s just BRB or ENB, not both, with one full length production or very very occasionally two and some years  it’s nothing. Northern Ballet doesn’t do the full length traditional classics the way RB/BRB/ENB do.

 

 

 

You've made me laugh out loud again mentioning the RB in the same breath as touring companies!!  When was the last time the RB toured anywhere in the UK?

 

In some respects ENB and BRB have become the victims of bigger productions that would not easily fit into the smaller theatres that they used to tour to.  They are also at the whim of the Arts Council who dictate where they will tour to keep their NGO statuses.

 

To go to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland they have to apply for (and get) cross-border funding or go "at risk" to themselves and the theatre that wants them to visit.

 

Northern Ballet provide a lot of people in a lot more places with the opportunity to see story ballets so beloved by British ballet audiences.  As a smaller company they cannot do right for doing wrong.  I well remember Scottish Ballet touring lovely productions of traditional Swan Lakes and Sleeping Beauties and being criticised because they could not furnish the requisite number of corps dancers.  So smaller companies find their own way forward and provide fantastic opportunities for members of the public to see fantastic ballet.  Ballet Black and Ballet Cymru also provide fantastic opportunities for people to see great quality ballet even though it may not be "the classics".

[Emeralds]

6 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

You've made me laugh out loud again mentioning the RB in the same breath as touring companies!!  When was the last time the RB toured anywhere in the UK?

 

In some respects ENB and BRB have become the victims of bigger productions that would not easily fit into the smaller theatres that they used to tour to.  They are also at the whim of the Arts Council who dictate where they will tour to keep their NGO statuses.

 

To go to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland they have to apply for (and get) cross-border funding or go "at risk" to themselves and the theatre that wants them to visit.

 

Northern Ballet provide a lot of people in a lot more places with the opportunity to see story ballets so beloved by British ballet audiences.  As a smaller company they cannot do right for doing wrong.  I well remember Scottish Ballet touring lovely productions of traditional Swan Lakes and Sleeping Beauties and being criticised because they could not furnish the requisite number of corps dancers.  So smaller companies find their own way forward and provide fantastic opportunities for members of the public to see fantastic ballet.  Ballet Black and Ballet Cymru also provide fantastic opportunities for people to see great quality ballet even though it may not be "the classics".

RB/ENB/BRB:  Referring to the classics, not the touring. 

 

I’m not saying NB must also mount the same types of traditional productions of classics that RB/ENB/BRB do. I’ve never said that. I just said their productions are different. Nothing wrong with that. Why must everyone copy the same formula? Nobody wants NYCB to change into ABT either (although granted NYCB has some full length classics, just not the same as what other companies have), and nobody would want Akran Khan Dance Company to turn into Paris Opera Ballet.

 

i think we should ask the audiences in Scotland and Wales what they want to have and what they will buy  tickets to go and see. It’s not enough to say, “you have Ballet Cymru and Ballet Black, that’s enough ballet for you, you should be satisfied with that, don’t be greedy about wanting Don Quixote and Coppelia too”. In fact when Mariinsky Ballet toured Cardiff some years ago with Don Quixote, their tickets sold well.....and the audience wasn’t solely Londoners making the trip to Cardiff just to see the Mariinsky. (There were some, but the audience was not exclusively them.)  

 

SB is the resident company in Scotland and performs great productions- I actually wanted to see their innovative Nutcracker this season but couldn’t. But if Scottish taxpayers are  paying for ENB as well, maybe there should be some discussion about bringing the company or part of the company to dance in Scotland from time to time - Edinburgh Festival is an obvious idea, since international orchestras and  soloist musicians now do a well trodden path of Paris on one day, Proms in London the next day, and Edinburgh Festival the following day.  It’s also a great highlight for the dancers to have on their cv and memories - to have danced at the Edinburgh Festival. 

[Jan McNulty]

31 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

In fact when Mariinsky Ballet toured Cardiff some years ago with Don Quixote, their tickets sold well.....and the audience wasn’t solely Londoners making the trip to Cardiff just to see the Mariinsky. 

 

 

Is that one of the years that they brought half the company including one principal?  They obviously didn't think the provinces deserved more!  I saw them do Corsaire at The Lowry one year (ticket prices half of London) and the only principal with them was Igor Kolb.  The following year ... half the company again but with London prices.  I didn't bother.

 

What you say is valid but it is the Arts Council England that dictates the touring round and they would need to be persuaded otherwise before the companies could tour more widely.  

 

The only companies that tour up hill and down dale in the UK are the visiting Russian companies (which I assume won't be happening for the foreseeable) and Vienna Festival Ballet which folded in the early days of the pandemic.

 

Back to ENB, I hope whoever becomes the AD reinstates the UK Spring Tour.

[alison]

3 hours ago, capybara said:

Are you thinking of Maina Gielgud? She’s now in her mid/late seventies and happily mounting or coaching ballets all over the world.

 

The thought had never occurred to me.

[alison]

3 hours ago, Emeralds said:

I think while people are discussing Rojo’s achievements, of which there are of course a number, one thing that has made me uncomfortable is the increase in international touring and the cut in regional touring. Yes, she did say  touring in the UK has made ENB lose money. But the company has already performed at the Paris Opera, Bolshoi, Barcelona, South America, USA. Why the need to do more to the detriment of performances in British regions (and what about Wales and Scotland) and now London.

 

 

I remember Wayne Eagling saying something to the effect that London was the only place where they don't lose money, so it predates Rojo.  No, I'm not happy with the amount of international touring either, given how little they're getting to perform in this country nowadays, but perhaps the pandemic has changed everything?  Is it that international touring is a safer bet financially than domestic?

 

I've indicated before, too, that I don't think ENB has done itself any favours, historically, by concentrating so much on the big, generally well-known, full-evening ballets: back when I first started watching them, when they were still London Festival Ballet, they would regularly tour a mixed bill for a couple of nights *and* a full-length to most of their venues, making more or less a full week.  The mixed may not necessarily have sold that well, but with suitable pricing/discounts it probably had an important role in emphasising to their regional audiences that there was ballet beyond the 3-acters.  Nowadays, I don't know whether the regional audiences are less savvy about ballet than they were, but I definitely get the feeling that there's a general reluctance to venture beyond the full-evening works.

[Sophoife]

On 08/04/2022 at 20:02, Emeralds said:

I thought of Maina when the vacancy was announced, but having been around to see the stresses and challenges when she was mounting ballets at ENB, I thought she might not want to do it in her seventies.....that said, I did hope the board might have approached her out of courtesy to invite her to apply at least, given her long career as a principal with them and her service to the company as coach and repetiteur. 

I cannot see Miss Gielgud wanting to take on artistic directorship of any single company at this stage of her life. I have been privileged to have met her on a number of occasions in the last 40 years, cannot despite invitation call her anything but "Miss Gielgud", she inspires such respect in me.

 

Don't forget she was AD of AusBallet in the 1980s, and as discussed in John Larkin's biography of Miss Gielgud, one of the reasons her contract wasn't renewed was her extremely open penchant for playing favourites. Vide her own social media, this certainly does not seem to have changed.

 

She is a brilliant coach (we can always tell in the audience when she's been back coaching the corps, especially) and I think the ballet world is better served by her continuing to coach on a freelance basis. Also, she sets and coaches some Béjart, one of the few authorised to do so. We've not seen any down here since she left.

[LinMM]

I honestly don’t think the ENB job is for anybody in their 70’s but loved Maina Gielgud from years back as was delighted she was a taller dancer than usual back then and loved watching her when she was with Bejart Company ( why don’t we see them anymore 😥) a very striking dancer. 

I think running ENB needs somebody in their 40’s or 50’s so can hopefully give it a long run if it’s going successfully etc. 

[Jan McNulty]

9 hours ago, alison said:

 

I remember Wayne Eagling saying something to the effect that London was the only place where they don't lose money, so it predates Rojo.  No, I'm not happy with the amount of international touring either, given how little they're getting to perform in this country nowadays, but perhaps the pandemic has changed everything?  Is it that international touring is a safer bet financially than domestic?

 

I've indicated before, too, that I don't think ENB has done itself any favours, historically, by concentrating so much on the big, generally well-known, full-evening ballets: back when I first started watching them, when they were still London Festival Ballet, they would regularly tour a mixed bill for a couple of nights *and* a full-length to most of their venues, making more or less a full week.  The mixed may not necessarily have sold that well, but with suitable pricing/discounts it probably had an important role in emphasising to their regional audiences that there was ballet beyond the 3-acters.  Nowadays, I don't know whether the regional audiences are less savvy about ballet than they were, but I definitely get the feeling that there's a general reluctance to venture beyond the full-evening works.

 

It's not only ENB that has stopped touring mixed programmes to the extent that we now have a chicken and egg situation.  When a company was in Liverpool in my early ballet watching days if I was only able to see one performance it was always the mixed bill.  We saw some wonderful mixed programmes from LFB/ENB.

 

Perhaps companies could consider touring mixed programmes to smaller theatres?  

[Fonty]

I can remember seeing some fabulous stuff by both the LFB, and the RB touring company when I was a child.  Ok, the first ballet I ever saw was Swan Lake, but after that I am sure mixed bills were very much part of the touring rep.  

9 hours ago, alison said:

  Nowadays, I don't know whether the regional audiences are less savvy about ballet than they were, but I definitely get the feeling that there's a general reluctance to venture beyond the full-evening works.

 

I think that is part of the problem.  Ballet was often shown on television as part of general variety shows on television,  so a very wide range of people would be familiar with the art form.  Nowadays you don't get variety shows as such, the majority of those programmes showcase singers.  You get the occasional full length ballet on BBC4, but I would be amazed if someone went on something like Britain's Got Talent and performed a ballet routine.  Not that I ever watch talent competitions, I have to say.   

[Jan McNulty]

Matthew Bourne's company always seems to do really well these days.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if our ballet companies could create the same buzz and generate the same audiences.

 

Tamara Rojo kept faith with Northern audiences and we had both Le Corsaire (not wonderfully sold but OK) and Khan's Giselle (sold better than conventional ballet does these days) in Liverpool.  I hope whoever gets the job keeps the faith too.

[Fonty]

A pity about Le Corsaire, because I thought it was wonderful when I saw it, and would be only too happy to see it again.  Strange it didn't sell well in certain places, I would have thought it was tailor made for those sorts of places.

 

 

[JNC]

I imagine the Forsythe evening would be a good one to tour - particularly if an orchestra is not required (as much as that shouldn’t be a primary motivation to cut costs…and also given there are no sets and costumes are very portable!). And it seems like the kind of non-classical programme that would be popular given the reception in London. 
 

Ideally as has already been mentioned each city would get a longer visit and perhaps more than one programme (one classical and one more ‘adventurous’ perhaps) for 2-3 nights each. 
 

Similarly I think the “She Persisted” programme (not sure if this did tour?) would be a good one - familiarity is good and I think at the time the V&A had a Frida Kahlo exhibition on, and people are aware of her so that could entice newbies to give it a go. And giving people the opportunity to see works like Bausch outside of London should be there. 
 

I imagine things like the Forysthe evening and She Persisted would probably sell better than Le Corsaire. Most people may have the opinion classical ballet is boring but they will go to Swan Lake, Nutcracker as they are well known but not many will have heard of Le Corsaire. But they will likely be more willing to give a mixed contemporary a go particularly if familiar with a story/character (eg Kahlo) and also if the pricing is reasonable. I may be wrong, but I’m not surprised by Khan’s Giselle being popular over Le Corsaire. I think both are valid of course and ideally a mix of programmes across a week would be best. 

[LinMM]

I think only because Khans Giselle might be more appealing to younger people who have never heard of Le Corsaire but have heard of Akram Khan! 

[Emeralds]

On 08/04/2022 at 20:52, Jan McNulty said:

 

Is that one of the years that they brought half the company including one principal?  They obviously didn't think the provinces deserved more!  I saw them do Corsaire at The Lowry one year (ticket prices half of London) and the only principal with them was Igor Kolb.  The following year ... half the company again but with London prices.  I didn't bother.

 

What you say is valid but it is the Arts Council England that dictates the touring round and they would need to be persuaded otherwise before the companies could tour more widely.  

 

The only companies that tour up hill and down dale in the UK are the visiting Russian companies (which I assume won't be happening for the foreseeable) and Vienna Festival Ballet which folded in the early days of the pandemic.

 

Back to ENB, I hope whoever becomes the AD reinstates the UK Spring Tour.

Not the same year as The Lowry as they only visited the U.K. once that season and it was Wales they picked. The company rankings are artificial when they appear in Britain- same as Bolshoi - dancers who can be corps or junior soloists are “promoted” temporarily for the U.K. tour. And of course, we know Mariinsky Ballet is slow with promotions (eg Novikova, Obraztsova) ever since money started being siphoned off by Gergiev for the orchestra and opera, so many of their soloists are actually principals. Friends who went to Cardiff saw Obraztsova, Somova and Novikova as well as Nioradze, Ruzinatov and Sarafanov In Don Quixote, and the performances were on a par with those they usually gave in Covent Garden and the Coliseum. I was just envious (but happy for them) that I had to stay behind to work, as I would love to have seen all of them at the time.

 

I hope ENB will increase their tours eg spring tour, and consider bringing works that aren’t expensive to stage eg Carmen, Approximate Sonata, Three Preludes, Apollo, Dying Swan, Dust, Second Breath, Etudes, etc. And a mixed bill could also include the pas de deux like Le Corsaire, Harlequinade, Flames of Paris, etc which their Emerging Dancer artists have done. Among their classics, (Skeaping’s) Giselle, La Sylphide, Coppelia, and not just Swan Lake and Nutcracker. I actually remember starting a quiet whispering campaign of sorts where I mentioned “would be nice to have Three Preludes back” and others agreed and started mentioning it to ENB on social media, and 3 years later, it appeared on the 70th anniversary mixed bill and has been repeated twice now (yippee).

 

If they have more than three nights to perform, it would make fiscal sense to have two programmes of a mixed bill and a classic rather than having a whole week of just one thing. If the small independent companies like the ones you’ve mentioned can make these tours break even (and I’m sure their dancers aren’t working for free) there’s a way around it, even if the Arts Council don’t give much of a grant. One way might be to look into increased sponsorship especially from British companies (eg Nat West who are now an ENB sponsor) to take more prominent roles in the financing of these tours, as they have customers outside London too. 

 

[Emeralds]

On 08/04/2022 at 23:23, alison said:

 

The thought had never occurred to me.

So Alain Dubreuil or Janette Mulligan? 😊 Probably not Ashley Wheater, who recently took over as Joffrey Ballet Artistic Director, or Patrick Armand, whose focus has been on teaching, having led SFB School as director and assistant director for some time, as well as teaching at Prix de Lausanne.

[Jan McNulty]

40 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

So Alain Dubreuil or Janette Mulligan? 😊 Probably not Ashley Wheater, who recently took over as Joffrey Ballet Artistic Director, or Patrick Armand, whose focus has been on teaching, having led SFB School as director and assistant director for some time, as well as teaching at Prix de Lausanne.

 

Alain Dubreuil must be in his 70s.  I would have thought that, without being ageist, the company would hope for someone who could give quite a few years (assuming they are a good fit).  

[Jan McNulty]

17 hours ago, Emeralds said:

Not the same year as The Lowry as they only visited the U.K. once that season and it was Wales they picked. The company rankings are artificial when they appear in Britain- same as Bolshoi - dancers who can be corps or junior soloists are “promoted” temporarily for the U.K. tour. And of course, we know Mariinsky Ballet is slow with promotions (eg Novikova, Obraztsova) ever since money started being siphoned off by Gergiev for the orchestra and opera, so many of their soloists are actually principals. Friends who went to Cardiff saw Obraztsova, Somova and Novikova as well as Nioradze, Ruzinatov and Sarafanov In Don Quixote, and the performances were on a par with those they usually gave in Covent Garden and the Coliseum. I was just envious (but happy for them) that I had to stay behind to work, as I would love to have seen all of them at the time.

 

 

They appeared at The Lowry the year after Corsaire but the tickets were twice the price so I didn't go.

 

(The performance I saw at The Lowry of the Mariinsky's Corsaire did not come up to the standards we saw when POB performed (Corsaire) Bayadere at the opening performances for The Lowry in May 2000.  I appreciate it's a bit apples and pears but the difference was striking.  I had seen the Mariinsky perform Corsaire some years earlier in Birmingham and London).

Edited April 11, 2022 by Jan McNulty
Edited for clarification as I had somehow forgotten that POB performed Bayadere at The Lowry

[jmhopton]

25 minutes ago, Jan McNulty said:

 

They appeared at The Lowry the year after Corsaire but the tickets were twice the price so I didn't go.

 

(The performance I saw at The Lowry of the Mariinsky's Corsaire did not come up to the standards we saw when POB performed Corsaire at the opening performances for The Lowry in May 2000).

I thought POB performed Nureyevs Bayadere in 2000 as we went every night (unless they came twice)

[Jan McNulty]

10 hours ago, jmhopton said:

I thought POB performed Nureyevs Bayadere in 2000 as we went every night (unless they came twice)

Sorry, you are quite right Joan - I don’t know how I could forget that.  I've edited my post to show I was wrong.

[Jan McNulty]

English National Ballet has launched the search for a new AD today.

 

I've started a new thread with the press release: