Classical V. Contemporary Choreography

[bridiem]

Just now, zxDaveM said:

You could argue that for any choreographer though - as the artform inherently ephemeral.

 

I agree - my (badly phrased) comment actually related to all the new works at the RB in recent decades, not specifically Wayne McGregor. A lot of Ashton, MacMillan etc would I'm sure not be worth reviving - for much of their careers they were 'jobbing' choreographers who had to produce works to keep the show on the road, so to speak. But I do get the impression that new works have become more and more ephemeral over the years, with fewer and fewer being worth keeping, which is ironic given the greatly increased emphasis on 'creativity' and 'innovation' etc.

[bridiem]

3 minutes ago, Pas de Quatre said:

There has long  been the theory of "a baker's dozen" applied to the Arts. For every one genuine masterpiece there will be a dozen or so that aren't very good, or even if popular at first, are soon forgotten.

 

Which makes it even more important to identify, cherish and stage those works that ARE masterpieces (or even just good, which is difficult enough to achieve).

[Ondine]

I see no clamour for a revival of Ashton's Tales of Beatrix Potter. So popular in its day it was made into a film.  I suspect the dancers are relieved, those masks must have been hell.

[Jane S]

13 minutes ago, Ondine said:

I see no clamour for a revival of Ashton's Tales of Beatrix Potter. So popular in its day it was made into a film.  I suspect the dancers are relieved, those masks must have been hell.

 

The other way round, surely? It was  a charming film made into a much less successful stage show.

[capybara]

16 minutes ago, Ondine said:

I see no clamour for a revival of Ashton's Tales of Beatrix Potter. So popular in its day it was made into a film.  I suspect the dancers are relieved, those masks must have been hell.

The Beatrix Potter ballet actually began its life as a film (1971) and only later was adapted for the stage.

I don’t recall it being all that well received in its stage version.

 

(Typing as JaneS was posting - sorry!)

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by capybara

[Ondine]

Yes. My memory is not what it was. 😏 Dowell adapted it for the stage. I don't think Ashton wanted it staged.

 

Wiki:

 

1992 production

The critics did not review the original 1992 production favourably, considering it to be too long, lacking plot and missing Ashton's inspirational touch. Mary Clarke of The Guardian described the ballet as "nauseating" and finishing her review with the opinion that "Sir Fred would have been appalled."^[12]

Subsequent productions

Susan Frater of the Evening Standard praised the Royal Ballet's 2007 revival as "charming" with wonderful sets and costumes. But also criticised it as overly long and for children.^[13]

 

Clement Crisp reviewed the 2010 performance for the Financial Times, he considered Potter's characters "nauseating" the score "Victorian vulgar" and the costumes bloated. But he did acknowledge that the audience liked it.^[14]

Edited August 11, 2023 by Ondine

[MAB]

I note from the list that the ballets that we occasionally see from Ashton are all his later work, not much before 1960.  Interesting that we are now mainly getting later MacMillan, regardless of quality.

[capybara]

5 minutes ago, MAB said:

I note from the list that the ballets that we occasionally see from Ashton are all his later work, not much before 1960.  Interesting that we are now mainly getting later MacMillan, regardless of quality.

Lady MacMillan was not in Kenneth’s life when his early pieces were made and, as the rights holder, she is likely to be playing a proactive part in what is performed now.

 

The owners of Ashton’s ballets appear (still) to exist as an uncoordinated number of individuals who do not seem to be promoting the works they own.

 

Added to which, current Directors may be more familiar with later MacMillan and, increasingly, lack personal acquaintance with much of the Ashton canon.

[Sim]

1 minute ago, capybara said:

and, increasingly, lack personal acquaintance with much of the Ashton canon.

Surely the Ashton Foundation should be trying to rectify that situation?  The fact that people have to go to Sarasota to see the largest choice of Ashton rep is incomprehensible to me.  

[Sophoife]

52 minutes ago, capybara said:

The Beatrix Potter ballet actually began its life as a film (1971) and only later was adapted for the stage.

I don’t recall it being all that well received in its stage version.

 

(Typing as JaneS was posting - sorry!)

 

I must say, as a child of five I adored the film when it came out, and I know myself and schoolfriends saw it at least half a dozen times (birthdays etc) in its first cinema run ("Mummy, please! The squirrels! Mr Jeremy Fisher!").

 

I couldn't imagine it as a successful stage production but I can imagine children delighting in it.

 

As far as jobbing choreographers go, that's exactly what they were. Frankly, Mr McGregor with his prolific output is also a jobbing choreographer. It would take some sort of ego to say "I am creating a masterpiece which shall last for generations"!

 

I remember a music Q&A with Nicolette Fraillon when she described Riccardo Drigo as a jobbing composer, typical of many operating within the theatre systems in Imperial Russia, "give me ten bars of buildup, two of display, and a climax" type thing. She said it was Tchaikovsky's success that changed that attitude, but not completely.

[Ondine]

New York Theatre Ballet (a tiny company) performs Capriol Suite (since 2005) and more recently added (2017) La Chatte métamorphosée en femme to its rep.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Theatre_Ballet

 

New York Theatre Ballet or NYTB was founded in 1978 by Diana Byer, who became its artistic director. Dedicated to the principles of the Cecchetti-Diaghilev tradition, the company both reprises classic masterworks and produces original ballets.

New York Theatre Ballet has performed works by choreographers including Richard Alston, Frederick Ashton, George Balanchine, Gemma Bond, August Bournonville, Michel Fokine, David Gordon, José Limón, John Taras, and Antony Tudor. The company tours its family and adult programs both nationally and abroad, and has become the most widely seen chamber ballet company in the United States.

 

I think the problem is with a great deal of Ashton is it was choreographed for smaller spaces and would be lost at the ROH. Also choreographed for specific dancers specific galas etc.

 

https://dancetabs.com/2015/06/new-york-theatre-ballet-capriol-suite-two-timing-cats-cradle-such-longing-dark-elegies/

 

My suspicion is that Royal Ballet revivals, as I said above, could be seen as quaint but rather outdated.  A man of his time and I actually think the same with MacMillan. 

[Sim]

3 minutes ago, Ondine said:

New York Theatre Ballet (a tiny company) performs Capriol Suite (since 2005) and more recently added (2017) La Chatte métamorphosée en femme to its rep.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Theatre_Ballet

 

New York Theatre Ballet or NYTB was founded in 1978 by Diana Byer, who became its artistic director. Dedicated to the principles of the Cecchetti-Diaghilev tradition, the company both reprises classic masterworks and produces original ballets.

New York Theatre Ballet has performed works by choreographers including Richard Alston, Frederick Ashton, George Balanchine, Gemma Bond, August Bournonville, Michel Fokine, David Gordon, José Limón, John Taras, and Antony Tudor. The company tours its family and adult programs both nationally and abroad, and has become the most widely seen chamber ballet company in the United States.

 

I think the problem is with a great deal of Ashton is it was choreographed for smaller spaces and would be lost at the ROH. Also choreographed for specific dancers specific galas etc.

 

https://dancetabs.com/2015/06/new-york-theatre-ballet-capriol-suite-two-timing-cats-cradle-such-longing-dark-elegies/

 

My suspicion is that Royal Ballet revivals, as I said above, could be seen as quaint but rather outdated.  A man of his time and I actually think the same with MacMillan. 

Much great art is 'quaint' and 'of its time'.  That doesn't mean that it can't be appreciated and enjoyed, and that it should just disappear.  We can and do learn a lot from it.  

[Ondine]

11 minutes ago, Sophoife said:

I must say, as a child of five I adored the film when it came out, and I know myself and schoolfriends saw it at least half a dozen times (birthdays etc) in its first cinema run ("Mummy, please! The squirrels! Mr Jeremy Fisher!").

 

Free trial on Marquee TV and you can relive your childhood.

 

https://www.marquee.tv/videos/royaloperahouse-beatrixpotter

 

Sir Fred himself was Mrs Tiggywinkle.

 

 

[MAB]

4 minutes ago, Sim said:

Much great art is 'quaint' and 'of its time'.  That doesn't mean that it can't be appreciated and enjoyed, and that it should just disappear.  We can and do learn a lot from it.  

 

Indeed, we happily flock to 17th century operas, why must ballet have to always be of today.

[Ondine]

2 minutes ago, Sim said:

Much great art is 'quaint' and 'of its time'.  That doesn't mean that it can't be appreciated and enjoyed, and that it should just disappear.  We can and do learn a lot from it.  

 

Sure. And possibly its time will come again. I don't know how commercially successful much of it is right now and bums on seats has to be a consideration.  We don't really have 'chamber ballet' in the UK. You can't hang a ballet in a gallery.  Also there could be a certain amount of disappointment and that could diminish reputations. If Ashton could choose what could be revived I wonder what he would decide were keepers?

[Ondine]

21 minutes ago, MAB said:

Indeed, we happily flock to 17th century operas, why must ballet have to always be of today.

 

We flock to a tiny TINY number of survivals, a great deal of what was performed then is not performed now!

 

We flocked to Ashton's Cinderella last year, a new production, but I do suspect the complex rights issue could be a factor in not performing some. 

 

2023/4 ROH:

Ashton’s boundless invention is displayed in two mixed programmes, with The Dream and his virtuosic Rhapsody. One of these programmes also features Les Rendezvous while the other includes Five Brahms Waltzes in the Manner of Isadora Duncan, Hamlet and Ophelia, and a guest performance by The Sarasota Ballet of The Walk to the Paradise Garden. The Sarasota Ballet will also demonstrate the genius of Ashton in the Linbury Theatre with a vibrant array of his creative output. The Royal Ballet and The Sarasota Ballet’s Ashton performances during the Season mark the opening of ASHTON WORLDWIDE, the Frederick Ashton Foundation’s five-year international festival conceived to celebrate the work and legacy of Frederick Ashton. Further information on the festival will be announced by the Foundation in due course. 

 

 

MacMillan is being 'revived' for the 23/24 season, let's see how well received the triple is.

 

Kenneth MacMillan’s dramatic flair is celebrated with the romantic tragedy Manon, which this Season celebrates its 50th birthday, and a mixed programme – Requiem, Danses Concertantes and Different Drummer - plus performances and a film premiere by Yorke Dance Project, illustrating the choreographer’s exceptional artistic development across the decades. 

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Ondine

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Ondine said:

We flock to a tiny TINY number of survivals, a great deal of what was performed then is not performed now!

 

The surival rate is far higher than you might think, I believe 90% of all operas written were created prior to 1800.  Operas survive in libraries across the world and are now being excavated and performed, possibly because of dissatisfaction with much contemporary opera.  All forms of early music are becoming popular now and operas once scorned, e.g. Salieri's, are being staged.

 

Perhaps at some point in the future something similar will happen in the ballet world.  I remember seeing  Le Reveil de Flore in Baden Baden a few years back, a museum piece if ever there was one, but with a gorgeous central ballerina role.  The audience clealy loved it as did I.  perhaps much of the problem with the RB is down to the ever diminishing number of ballets performed each season.  Choices are made that clearly exclude ballets that aren't cash cow classics or the brand spanking new.

[Balletfanp]

3 hours ago, Ondine said:

I see no clamour for a revival of Ashton's Tales of Beatrix Potter. So popular in its day it was made into a film.  I suspect the dancers are relieved, those masks must have been hell.

I remember being taken to see this in the cinema as a child. My mother thought i would love it, as I did ballet and loved the Beatrix Potter stories. I was bored rigid. My conclusion being that I love both separately, but not together! I have no desire to see it again! 🙂

[Ondine]

46 minutes ago, MAB said:

The surival rate is far higher than you might think

 

Sure, I'm very enamoured of 'early' music, and performances on period instruments too!  I know people who perform, research, revive. But it's not really mainstream.

 

Dance history. A passion. See my post above. Wonderful recreations. So much that's actually still familiar.

 

However, Ashton is complicated by the rights issue and various other factors, as well as I suspect certain works being lost as they were not recorded.  The ROH possibly isn't the place for some of the early works and small scale works apart from 'special occasion' revivals.

 

https://rambert.org.uk/performance-database/works/the-ballet-of-mars-and-venus-from-the-play-jew-suss/

 

 

Ashton isn't actually easy to dance with the appropriate style. As time goes on, more of this style will be lost.   I've talked of this in other threads.

 

Cash cows are sadly needed to fill those seats at the ROH and keep the entire shebang going. 

 

Ashton of course was 'modern' 'contemporary' once. Capriol Suite isn't 'ballet' if people think of ballet as pointe shoes. There are no shoes at all for Dante Sonata.  That's also named (as with Symphonic Variations) after the music. A number of people here seem to think McGregor's Untitled, 2023 isn't really a title as it refers to the designer. But why not? 

 

Facade, still performed... is the tango ballet? Is Popular Song?

 

(BTW there is a glorious clip on YouTube of Ashton himself dancing that tango with Moira Shearer. He was a gifted comedian.)

Edited August 11, 2023 by Ondine

[Sophoife]

2 hours ago, Ondine said:

Free trial on Marquee TV and you can relive your childhood.

 

https://www.marquee.tv/videos/royaloperahouse-beatrixpotter

 

Sir Fred himself was Mrs Tiggywinkle.

 

My dear! I bought the VHS the moment it became available to me, and I also have it on DVD. My 21yo nephew spent an evening with me last week and we watched his favourite bits at his request, "I haven't seen it for years and it's so cute!"

[Dawnstar]

2 hours ago, Ondine said:

I think the problem is with a great deal of Ashton is it was choreographed for smaller spaces and would be lost at the ROH.

 

They could surely do pieces in the Linbury that are too small for the main stage. However in reality the Linbury's dance schedule seems to be almost entirely given over to contemporary dance.

[Ondine]

5 minutes ago, Sophoife said:

"I haven't seen it for years and it's so cute!"

 

 

Michael Coleman as Jeremy Fisher.  Sublime I admit. 🐸

[Ondine]

23 minutes ago, Dawnstar said:

 

They could surely do pieces in the Linbury that are too small for the main stage

 

I wonder who would rehearse Ashton now Lesley Collier has retired?   Even if the Linbury was available, and the choreography revived, it isn't as simple as just learning the steps.  (How many can actually do 'the steps' as Ashton would wish now? The subtleties of epaulment, the port de bras?)

 

Ballet is all so ephemeral in many ways. As technique expands, it is also reduced.

 

One of the people who taught me some of the art and craft of ballet danced with Diaghilev and also with the Camargo Society. That generation is gone.

[OnePigeon]

Which is why I think it’s so very important right now to get the Ashton works taught and recorded properly by the artists who worked with him, before it’s too late.  When they’re gone, it’s gone.  I can’t imagine the Balanchine foundation being so cavalier in their attitude.  Thank goodness for Sarasota, though it does us as a UK audience little good, at least they’re passing on the tradition.

[Suffolkgal]

There’s Wayne Eagling? And other Ashton dancers about I just hope they cotton on to their treasures 

[San Perregrino]

4 hours ago, MAB said:

 

Indeed, we happily flock to 17th century operas, why must ballet have to always be of today.

There’s quite a lot of 17th century opera that I choose to give a very wide berth. 

[bangorballetboy]

5 hours ago, MAB said:

I note from the list that the ballets that we occasionally see from Ashton are all his later work, not much before 1960.  Interesting that we are now mainly getting later MacMillan, regardless of quality.

 

Ashton at the ROH in the 23/24 season

 

Valses nobles et sentimentales (1947)
Dante Sonata (1940)

Sinfonietta (1967)

Façade (1931)

Les Rendezvouz (1933)

The Dream (1964)

Rhapsody (1980)

Five Brahms Waltzes (1976)

The Walk to the Paradise Garden (1972)

Hamlet & Ophelia (1977)

 

MacMillan at the ROH in the 23/24 season

 

Manon (1974)

Requiem (1975)

Danses concertantes (1955)

Different Drummer (1984)

 

 

[Jane S]

1 hour ago, OnePigeon said:

Which is why I think it’s so very important right now to get the Ashton works taught and recorded properly by the artists who worked with him, before it’s too late.  When they’re gone, it’s gone.  I can’t imagine the Balanchine foundation being so cavalier in their attitude.

 

Indeed so: see here for what the Balanchine Foundation has done

[Ondine]

30 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

Ashton at the ROH in the 23/24 season

 

Valses nobles et sentimentales (1947)
Dante Sonata (1940)

Sinfonietta (1967)

Façade (1931)

Les Rendezvouz (1933)

The Dream (1964)

Rhapsody (1980)

Five Brahms Waltzes (1976)

The Walk to the Paradise Garden (1972)

Hamlet & Ophelia (1977)

 

MacMillan at the ROH in the 23/24 season

 

Manon (1974)

Requiem (1975)

Danses concertantes (1955)

Different Drummer (1984)

 

 

 

Not all the Ashton danced by the Royal Ballet though, but by the Sarasota Ballet at the Linbury? Another early Ashton still performed is of course Les Patineurs, 1937.  A great deal that isn't and possibly the best has survived.

[Dawnstar]

49 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

Ashton at the ROH in the 23/24 season

 

Valses nobles et sentimentales (1947)
Dante Sonata (1940)

Sinfonietta (1967)

Façade (1931)

Les Rendezvouz (1933)

The Dream (1964)

Rhapsody (1980)

Five Brahms Waltzes (1976)

The Walk to the Paradise Garden (1972)

Hamlet & Ophelia (1977)

 

12 minutes ago, Ondine said:

Not all the Ashton danced by the Royal Ballet though, but by the Sarasota Ballet at the Linbury? Another early Ashton still performed is of course Les Patineurs, 1937.  A great deal that isn't and possibly the best has survived.

 

I've just looked at the ROH website to check which pieces on the list will be done by the RB & which by Sarasota Ballet but I can only find the RB Ashton bills & can't find the Sarasota Ballet performances listed. Am I missing something or are they not on there yet?

[Ondine]

The performances, which will feature several rare Ashton ballets, will mark the start of a five-year, worldwide program spearheaded by the Frederick Ashton Foundation, duly named “Ashton Celebrated.” Both The Sarasota Ballet and The Royal Ballet will perform Ashton programs during this concurrent Ashton celebration within the Royal Opera House. In addition, the two companies will come together for collaborative performances throughout the week.

During The Sarasota Ballet’s June 7 gala evening in the Linbury Theatre, The Sarasota Ballet will peform Ashton’s The Walk to the Paradise Garden. Other works The Sarasota Ballet will perform include Valses Nobles et Sentimentales, Dante Sonata, Sinfonietta, Façade, Varii Capricci and more, to be announced at a later date.

 

That's from April.  https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/arts-and-entertainment/2023/04/sarasota-ballet-royal-ballet-london

 

Now Danielle Brown has retired (far too early) I wonder who will be dancing 'her' roles?

 

 

 

 

[Dawnstar]

Thanks. So nothing on the ROH website yet then. Mind you, I don't know why I'm so interested given they're in the Linbury so I almost certainly won't be able to get tickets.

[Ondine]

5 hours ago, Ondine said:

2023/4 ROH:

Ashton’s boundless invention is displayed in two mixed programmes, with The Dream and his virtuosic Rhapsody. One of these programmes also features Les Rendezvous while the other includes Five Brahms Waltzes in the Manner of Isadora Duncan, Hamlet and Ophelia, and a guest performance by The Sarasota Ballet of The Walk to the Paradise Garden. The Sarasota Ballet will also demonstrate the genius of Ashton in the Linbury Theatre with a vibrant array of his creative output. The Royal Ballet and The Sarasota Ballet’s Ashton performances during the Season mark the opening of ASHTON WORLDWIDE, the Frederick Ashton Foundation’s five-year international festival conceived to celebrate the work and legacy of Frederick Ashton. Further information on the festival will be announced by the Foundation in due course. 

 

 

Only what I found and posted above, though it could be that there is further info elsewhere I haven't found.  I am interested to know who will dance the Isadora. Again,  not really 'ballet' but it's Ashton!