Assessed out - success stories please

[Kerfuffle]

This is a lot of food for thought for parents of DCs of all age groups. It seems as though the name of the school doesn’t guarantee training quality and that is what matters the most. 

[Kerfuffle]

@NeverdancedjustamumGreat advice. We are lucky enough to be in that situation right now. 

[Millicent]

This is definitely sobering information for me, as I have a Y5 JA DD who is desperate to get into WL. I have never been a fan of her ballet career aspirations but am in a difficult position as I don't feel that I can shatter her dreams by bot letting her audition. We don't have access to top quality local training either so she is v keen to go to vocational school. I don't want her to for many reasons but don't feel that I can stop her auditioning. It's a very difficult position to be in. Particularly as she is also very academic and may well get into local super selective grammar schools which offer lots of non-ballet opportunities. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Millicent
typo

[Medora]

On 02/07/2022 at 16:21, NotadanceMa said:

I also notice that the RB have changed their admission policy re SEN. (Sept 21) This is of particular interest to me; they can now deselect on the basis of SEN.

Prior to the new training revamp this was not the case. 
I kept the old RB SEN report in my files, the new one is very different indeed.

 

Thanks for sharing, I had no idea 

[Peanut68]

It seems many schools seem to have recently changed many policies in school websites re: things like SEN, diversity, safeguarding. 
Out if interest, with things now mostly only available to read digitally, I wonder if it is even possible to read ‘old’ replaced policies? I strongly advice parents to regularly read & the download & print or store all such documents to keep a watchful eye on changes. I read with interest how current policy is completely polar opposite to what was quoted to me at time if need. eg. Policies now refer to under 18 as children with immediate referral of info to parents…. That’s not what happened in our case as policy ‘then’ was as if over 16’s considered adult. 
This is a very grey area nationally…. Offspring are expected to stay in full time education until 18….so that suggests in most cases parental support with living at home/financial support etc. Yet many schools then don’t give info to these said parents who may not know of problems (medical/pastoral/education issues). Problems they may be able to help with if made aware. Also, does that mean a September born young person can simply walk away early into  U6th whereas an August born has to by law complete the year? So some may feel trapped or that others can seek ‘freedom’ sooner or worse, could be enforced out into world if work without completing education. It’s a real mess as far as I see. 
I can see the issues where Unis feel they can’t share Jack with parents as students are over 18…. But sixth forms? Too many seem to half the time think they are schools & keep with quite lower school-like rules etc then the other half act like they are FE colleges so deny parental involvement. 
But if parents are paying huge sums as in vocational dance training? Surely this should ‘bit’ a level of inclusion? I suspect the ‘school’ style element suits fit certain things & then the college for others like lessening work load by not providing reports/parent consultations etc. 

We all need to demand more of these places. 

[Whiteduvet]

12 hours ago, Millicent said:

This is definitely sobering information for me, as I have a Y5 JA DD who is desperate to get into WL. I have never been a fan of her ballet career aspirations but am in a difficult position as I don't feel that I can shatter her dreams by bot letting her audition. We don't have access to top quality local training either so she is v keen to go to vocational school. I don't want her to for many reasons but don't feel that I can stop her auditioning. It's a very difficult position to be in. Particularly as she is also very academic and may well get into local super selective grammar schools which offer lots of non-ballet opportunities. 

I feel your concern. My child was like this a few years ago. 
 

Having read the experiences on here and based on our experiences of RBS during the JA program (I found information given about progress was covert and unclear) I decided I did not want to trust them with my child. I talked to my child about what I had found out (age appropriately) and shared what I believed were the odds of success of those joining in year 7 (very small). We then decided together it was not a school we would want them to attend. My child is also very academically able and that too played a part in our choice: we think my child would have been bored there academically. 
 

You need to listen to your child’s dreams but you also need to be a parent. Ultimately I, as the grown-up, did not trust RBS with my 11 year old. 

 

Others will obviously feel differently and I do not mean to criticise in any way but that was our experience and our thought process. Good luck with your personal choice. 
 

 

[DVDfan]

18 hours ago, Balletmummy18 said:

 lots of people used to tell me that her experience would toughen her up for the ‘real world of ballet ‘

 

Over the years I've come to feel that teachers and establishments that say this ought to be called out for it. It's an excuse for abuse. 

 

A career in performing arts does involve a lot of rejection and a lot of criticism, both fair and unfair, and a young person needs to decide if that's something they want in their lives. I think the language used around this stigmatises the perfectly reasonable choice not to follow a career involving so many knock-backs. 'Lacking resilience'; 'don't want it enough' etc.

Surely the time for this understanding and the decision is around 16 years of age, 14 at the earliest, and this is when training establishments should make their students aware of the reality of a dance career. Perhaps by talking both to professional dancers and former students who have made that choice to leave, or maybe through helpful films. But not by psychological abuse!

[Kate_N]

12 hours ago, Millicent said:

Y5 JA DD who is desperate to get into WL. I have never been a fan of her ballet career aspirations but am in a difficult position as I don't feel that I can shatter her dreams by bot letting her audition. We don't have access to top quality local training either so she is v keen to go to vocational school. I don't want her to for many reasons but don't feel that I can stop her auditioning.

 

Could you explain to her that you're going to take it step-by-step, and allowing her to audition is not a guarantee she'll be able to attend.

 

Would it also be possible to look at other vocational schools? ENB, Central (although I think that's for older children) Tring, Hammond, Kate Simmonds - and many more (do a search here) or a stronger after-school programmes (might require more driving?)

 

Having options & choices is good. I think White Lodge and the RBS gets romanticised as it's often the only ballet school people have heard of. It all becomes a bit Noel Streatfeild.

[Neverdancedjustamum]

51 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

 

Could you explain to her that you're going to take it step-by-step, and allowing her to audition is not a guarantee she'll be able to attend.

 

Would it also be possible to look at other vocational schools? ENB, Central (although I think that's for older children) Tring, Hammond, Kate Simmonds - and many more (do a search here) or a stronger after-school programmes (might require more driving?)

 

Having options & choices is good. I think White Lodge and the RBS gets romanticised as it's often the only ballet school people have heard of. It all becomes a bit Noel Streatfeild.

I think it’s harder for JAs to not audition because the whole programme I suppose was created to almost act as a feeder programme to the full time school many years ago. I heard that the earlier part of the Year 6 JA programme is all geared towards preparing them to audition for WL. I say “I heard” because we don’t have experience of this - my DD was never a JA. Once they’re inside the programme, I can imagine the goal would be WL. To be honest, even at MA I guess this doesn’t disappear completely - especially those who read Sabine Naghdi’s book and learned that Yasmine was “discovered” when she was an MA and was eventually offered a WL place because of it. I say this in jest but I suppose this has occurred to more than a few.  I know so many parents who are well aware of the issues and concerns discussed on this thread but would still jump at the chance to let their DCs attend if offered. I think this is why over the last 3-4 years I remember those who were offered a place but turned it down. It’s so rare and pretty much unheard of that I remember them more than those who (predictably) accept a place.  I can understand why it gets romaticised. Just look at dance schools’ social media posts. RBS-related successes are quite clearly prioritised and are always “centre stage”. I’ve heard of dance schools where teachers still regularly speak about former students who have gone on to WL, sometimes inadvertently affecting the morale and confidence of current students who  regularly subconsciously remember they “didn’t make it”, not like their peers who are now at WL. I’ve heard of schools which would only support applications to RBS associate schemes, other schemes being deemed not important enough. The list goes on.

[SarahTonerSTSB]

I haven't visited Balletcoforum for a long time (too busy teaching ha-ha!) But you have asked for success stories and so here is a one! (And I can help BTW if anyone is in need of a confidence boost, technique boost, (Sarah Boost as I call it!) for their hard working dancer in training. But that's a different post I guess...

My daughter left Vocational training at the end of year 11 aged just 16.  I trained her myself for the next three years (some of that time over Covid lockdowns of course) and she took open classes too when possible.

She auditioned and was chosen to dance with English National Ballet for their Nutcracker season 2021 and following that she was offered a full time contract. So dreams do come true!! 

Full time vocational training is not the be all and end all; if it's not for you then find another way!

It's expensive whichever route you choose... but...

A dancer's mental health, confidence and continued passion for their subject is of the utmost important; they won't dance forever and ideally will leave their career with positive experiences and memories and still have love for their art form! Vocational school is not for everyone but that doesn't mean no career! 

Happy dancing Folks!!

💝💝💝

[Kate_N]

23 hours ago, Neverdancedjustamum said:

RBS-related successes are quite clearly prioritised and are always “centre stage”. I’ve heard of dance schools where teachers still regularly speak about former students who have gone on to WL, sometimes inadvertently affecting the morale and confidence of current students who  regularly subconsciously remember they “didn’t make it”, not like their peers who are now at WL.

 

It's tricky, isn't it?

 

One of the standard pieces of advice given to non-dance knowledgeable parents is to look at where students from a studio have gone on to - what other schools, Associates programmes, jobs etc. So a studio/teacher who sends a student to RBS, or which has a number of "name" school associates, is going to let you know that - it's one of the signs of solid training.

[Whiteduvet]

13 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

 

It's tricky, isn't it?

 

One of the standard pieces of advice given to non-dance knowledgeable parents is to look at where students from a studio have gone on to - what other schools, Associates programmes, jobs etc. So a studio/teacher who sends a student to RBS, or which has a number of "name" school associates, is going to let you know that - it's one of the signs of solid training.

I wouldn’t necessarily see it as a sign of good training in the younger years. In my experience JA’s and to a large extent early year WL and MA’s are mainly about physique. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Whiteduvet

[Kerfuffle]

I think it also demonstrates that a school is switched on enough to put children forward and is possibly well connected in the ballet world. As white duvet says, that has little to do with actual training at best it shows that the teachers know what RBS is looking for. 

[Kerfuffle]

Lovely to hear that positive story @SarahTonerSTSB! 

[Peanut68]

Another thing about dance teachers saying they are ‘well connected’

At older vocational level this Thule of phrase is kind of used like a very insidious double edged sword….

What they often are saying at the same time is 

“I/we can make you” & equally “I/we can break you”

My feelings is the latter is happening as soon as they wield that word weaponry.

Power abuse & positioning of students as subservient & having to always please the teachers.

APPALLING…. almost a whiff of an abuser ‘grooming’ a victim (too strong???)

 

[SarahTonerSTSB]

2 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

Lovely to hear that positive story @SarahTonerSTSB! 

Thank you! xx

[Kate_N]

5 hours ago, Peanut68 said:

Another thing about dance teachers saying they are ‘well connected’

At older vocational level this Thule of phrase is kind of used like a very insidious double edged sword….

@Peanut68your DC obviously had difficulties in their training, but I really want to defend ballet teachers! I don’t think it’s fair to make such generalisations and paint all teachers with the same brush. I know many, many teachers who genuinely want the best for the students.
 

And if their students do well, why shouldn’t teachers let others in their dance community know? Why should the dancer not be celebrated? And why should not parents who know little about dance see that success, and draw inferences from it about the teacher’s expertise?

 

None of these things is unreasonable.  And most teachers are not out to destroy their students. 

[Kerfuffle]

58 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

@Peanut68your DC obviously had difficulties in their training, but I really want to defend ballet teachers! I don’t think it’s fair to make such generalisations and paint all teachers with the same brush. I know many, many teachers who genuinely want the best for the students.
 

And if their students do well, why shouldn’t teachers let others in their dance community know? Why should the dancer not be celebrated? And why should not parents who know little about dance see that success, and draw inferences from it about the teacher’s expertise?

 

None of these things is unreasonable.  And most teachers are not out to destroy their students. 

 

[Kerfuffle]

I think @Peanut68is referring to a much older age group than those posting about WL successes. Not all teachers are like this of course but it’s important that when such abuse happens it’s called out. This would be the same in any elite level training where the young person is reliant on their teacher. 

[capybara]

On 02/07/2022 at 15:35, Tippytoes17 said:

Apologies if this is a simply answered question or has been answered before but why do international

students only end up joining the school later in the school in higher years and not in year 7? Is it only in the uk that vocational full time training starts then that requires students to leave home or is it just as simple as it being that international students don’t apply until later stages for some reason?

 

In the majority of cases the overseas students who join are spotted by RBS staff at The Prix de Lausanne or The Youth America Grand Prix at around the age of 16 and invited to join the Upper School.

[Ruby Foo]

3 hours ago, Kate_N said:

@Peanut68your DC obviously had difficulties in their training, but I really want to defend ballet teachers! I don’t think it’s fair to make such generalisations and paint all teachers with the same brush. I know many, many teachers who genuinely want the best for the students.
 

And if their students do well, why shouldn’t teachers let others in their dance community know? Why should the dancer not be celebrated? And why should not parents who know little about dance see that success, and draw inferences from it about the teacher’s expertise?

 

None of these things is unreasonable.  And most teachers are not out to destroy their students. 

 
It's a complex picture. The teachers we most respect are those who respect their pupils. Who are prepared to put themselves OUT of the picture and coach their students according to their student's potential both physically and mentally. To fully and completely understand the students mental and physical state and to take time to nurture their talents. The success of a student gaining a place at vocational school is their pupil's success! It is a small step in that students forwardly direction, if that's the direction they've chosen ( and there are many!) Making the mark of success an acceptance at a particular school would be appear a little naive and foolish given what we know of particular vocational schools. Would that same student be accepted at Paris Opera? Vaganova? SAB? San Francisco?  It's is a small step in a positive direction if that is the direction you have chosen and of course there should be a celebration that someone thinks you are worthy at that particular moment in time or indeed, see you have potential. Of course your teacher is proud of you! However, there are slow burning students who don't peak until age 19, who don't follow the social rules of instagram and who don't necessarily look that appealing at 11 yrs. And suddenly it's the story of the tortoise and the hare. One has fallen by the wayside where the other is overtaking. It's that trust of the coach to believe in their student, to follow through with quiet persistence rather than clock up how many students are accepted to a particular school. It's a tricky and complicated picture made more so by social media.

 

[Neverdancedjustamum]

7 hours ago, valentina said:

 
It's a complex picture. The teachers we most respect are those who respect their pupils. Who are prepared to put themselves OUT of the picture and coach their students according to their student's potential both physically and mentally. To fully and completely understand the students mental and physical state and to take time to nurture their talents. The success of a student gaining a place at vocational school is their pupil's success! It is a small step in that students forwardly direction, if that's the direction they've chosen ( and there are many!) Making the mark of success an acceptance at a particular school would be appear a little naive and foolish given what we know of particular vocational schools. Would that same student be accepted at Paris Opera? Vaganova? SAB? San Francisco?  It's is a small step in a positive direction if that is the direction you have chosen and of course there should be a celebration that someone thinks you are worthy at that particular moment in time or indeed, see you have potential. Of course your teacher is proud of you! However, there are slow burning students who don't peak until age 19, who don't follow the social rules of instagram and who don't necessarily look that appealing at 11 yrs. And suddenly it's the story of the tortoise and the hare. One has fallen by the wayside where the other is overtaking. It's that trust of the coach to believe in their student, to follow through with quiet persistence rather than clock up how many students are accepted to a particular school. It's a tricky and complicated picture made more so by social media.

 

Well said, Valentina, I can’t agree more. Social media has made everything trickier but also in a way, more transparent for some. It’s easier to gauge which schools and teachers appear to be more preoccupied with counting immediate “successes”.  I remember last year being surprised that a lot of successes posted by schools and teachers were posted by multiple other schools and teachers. Sadly, it’s so easy to be tempted by schools who advertise a lot of statistics about students who get into full time training and yet it’s hard to gauge how many of these numbers were actually their home grown students complemented perhaps by other teachers/training and how many maybe only attended a weekly online session. The possible slow burners I find are often cast aside and ignored because they can’t be posted as a success within the next few months/year and therefore a bit useless in terms of marketing and advertisement. I always found this odd because even from a business point of view, surely these students should not fall on the wayside because they’re the ones who will be enrolled for longer with the school or teacher as they don’t intend to try for full time asap. Business-wise, they’re longer term income. Additionally, a lot would argue that entry at full time vocational school in the higher years is trickier because of competition from current full timers AND internationals. Surely those students who don’t want to go full time in the lower years and are nurtured and trained in a steady pace would be considered quite the success by a teacher if they gain a place later on at age 15/16 after being trained by them. I find that often there is a short sightedness when it comes to measuring success, to the detriment of those who could be possible slow burners. And the sad thing of course is that once ignored/not nurtured, these possible successes eventually lose interest or the love for dancing because they aren’t nurtured and focused on as much as their peers. Sometimes these students are deemed not focused or determined enough simply because they are not interested  in going full time immediately. And yet these are the kids who have extra hard to juggle full time “normal school” with dance classes. I am always more impressed by teachers and schools who don’t mind working in the background, happy to nurture those who don’t want to go full time asap, willing to work with other teachers and always had the best interests of the student at heart. These are teachers who are brilliant at teaching students of varying personalities too and not trying to box them all into the same personality/working style they prefer. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Neverdancedjustamum

[Kerfuffle]

Well said @valentina and @Neverdancedjustamum! 

[Ruby Foo]

On 05/07/2022 at 08:45, Whiteduvet said:

I wouldn’t necessarily see it as a sign of good training in the younger years. In my experience JA’s and to a large extent early year WL and MA’s are mainly about physique. 

 
Physique is obviously an important factor but there will be other elements too in which good teaching would be an element. Maybe not for young JAs but certainly for WL, a solid basic technique where the student has learned the correct posture, turnout and use of the floor and where no bad habits have been allowed to creep in anywhere, so that the student is a blank canvas with the very basic understanding of good classical technique. Then all the other natural elements such a good elevation, musicality, sense of performance, line and poise, focus and intelligence.

Again, a good teacher would be able to nurture those raw talents.

Not an expert on what they are looking for by the way, but just common sense.

[NotadanceMa]

9 hours ago, valentina said:

 
It's a complex picture. The teachers we most respect are those who respect their pupils. Who are prepared to put themselves OUT of the picture and coach their students according to their student's potential both physically and mentally. To fully and completely understand the students mental and physical state and to take time to nurture their talents. The success of a student gaining a place at vocational school is their pupil's success! It is a small step in that students forwardly direction, if that's the direction they've chosen ( and there are many!) Making the mark of success an acceptance at a particular school would be appear a little naive and foolish given what we know of particular vocational schools. Would that same student be accepted at Paris Opera? Vaganova? SAB? San Francisco?  It's is a small step in a positive direction if that is the direction you have chosen and of course there should be a celebration that someone thinks you are worthy at that particular moment in time or indeed, see you have potential. Of course your teacher is proud of you! However, there are slow burning students who don't peak until age 19, who don't follow the social rules of instagram and who don't necessarily look that appealing at 11 yrs. And suddenly it's the story of the tortoise and the hare. One has fallen by the wayside where the other is overtaking. It's that trust of the coach to believe in their student, to follow through with quiet persistence rather than clock up how many students are accepted to a particular school. It's a tricky and complicated picture made more so by social media.

 

I love your observation about students blossoming at different stages. My teen is a slow burner, hitting puberty has brought about a significant mental sea change. Predominately for them  a need to stay true to themselves and to resist what they believe is an outdated mode of dance training methods by some. It’s not an easy path to take. They also recognise they are slower to learn, no less talented but technique is something they have to work really hard at to master as the movements become faster and more complex. Artistry and musicality are their strengths, but the system favours students who learn quickly still and don’t challenge the status quo. (In their experience)
They have also decided to stand by the aspects of their artistry that set them apart from others. Teachers have said at various points on their training route that unless the technique is incorrect, you need to do you, if you like something about your style then analyse it and decide whether you want to keep it. Tastes vary. For me this is a very important part of being a teenager, finding out who you are and who you want to be. Dance can enhance and stifle those areas in equal measures.

I notice my child moving, inching slightly toward schools like Rambert.

The Forsythe evening from ENB was a revelation for them. 
Not a very clear post, but ‘assessing out’ can also be a positive thing, reframing your child’s experience to date, recognising that your child is bucking a system that doesn’t fit them, not the other way around. I understand at the time it can feel absolutely devastating. 

 

I am constantly waiting for my teen to be assessed out. 😬

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by NotadanceMa
Syntax

[Kerfuffle]

There is so much to learn and so many variables - not only amongst dancers but approaches to acquiring the skills. Do you wait until a single pirouette is perfect before progressing to multiples and fouettés or should these things be learned early and polished later? Different schools around the world have their own approach and the young dancer accepted in one school might not respond well to another school’s teaching. A lot of 11 year olds are at an odd stage of development - I think choosing at this age is favouring the smaller compact gymnast style dancer who hasn’t entered puberty yet. Not so good if you’re either developing or a bit gangly! It’s only at about 15 that you really know what kind of body someone might have, let alone their own preferences for classical, more contemporary or just wanting a more typical teenage  life of hanging out with friends ! 

[Ruby Foo]

58 minutes ago, NotadanceMa said:

I love your observation about students blossoming at different stages. My teen is a slow burner, hitting puberty has brought about a significant mental sea change. Predominately for them  a need to stay true to themselves and to resist what they believe is an outdated mode of dance training methods by some. It’s not an easy path to take. They also recognise they are slower to learn, no less talented but technique is something they have to work really hard at to master as the movements become faster and more complex. Artistry and musicality are their strengths, but the system favours students who learn quickly still and don’t challenge the status quo. (In their experience)
They have also decided to stand by the aspects of their artistry that set them apart from others. Teachers have said at various points on their training route that unless the technique is incorrect, you need to do you, if you like something about your style then analyse it and decide whether you want to keep it. Tastes vary. For me this is a very important part of being a teenager, finding out who you are and who you want to be. Dance can enhance and stifle those areas in equal measures.

I notice my child moving, inching slightly toward schools like Rambert.

The Forsythe evening from ENB was a revelation for them. 
Not a very clear post, but ‘assessing out’ can also be a positive thing, reframing your child’s experience to date, recognising that your child is bucking a system that doesn’t fit them, not the other way around. I understand at the time it can feel absolutely devastating. 

 

I am constantly waiting for my teen to be assessed out. 😬

 

There is a wonderful book called 'Elements of a Classical Ballet Technique' by Karel Shook which devotes a whole chapter on the importance of the relationship between the student and the teacher in ballet. It discusses all aspects including the huge responsibility and the importance of understanding and respecting the student as a whole - their whole being- in order that the strength and trust in the relationship can blossom. Reading it is quite a revelation and had a huge impact on me as a teacher. He describes the uniqueness of this bond and also the pitfalls teachers fall into when they are ' needy'.  It seemed miles away from the teaching we generally see in vocational schools, where despite relatively small class sizes, students are taught 'en masses' and expected to reach a required standard set by the establishment, by the establishment, whether they are ready or not. Sometimes the student can even be ignored in these establishments for months on end or even worse humiliated rather than encouraged and helped.

The good news is that vocational schools are improving ( albeit too slowly) and that sometimes now students will be removed for extra help and tuition on a one to one basis. Not quite the relationship mentioned in the book but better than nothing.

Also, as Kate_N rightly points out, there are plenty diamonds out there. The one I'm thinking about is Desire Samaii who encompasses everything that is wonderful about a teacher, creating truly fulfilling and nurturing one to one relationships within the confines of vocational school. I hope all students will find and have the experience of a Desire Samaii somewhen in their tuition. Sadly, I don't believe there are many of this book around now but happy to lend. 
Reading about Isadora Duncan can also help to inspire young dancers who feel their values and uniqueness are being eroded.

[NotadanceMa]

48 minutes ago, valentina said:

There is a wonderful book called 'Elements of a Classical Ballet Technique' by Karel Shook which devotes a whole chapter on the importance of the relationship between the student and the teacher in ballet. It discusses all aspects including the huge responsibility and the importance of understanding and respecting the student as a whole - their whole being- in order that the strength and trust in the relationship can blossom. Reading it is quite a revelation and had a huge impact on me as a teacher. He describes the uniqueness of this bond and also the pitfalls teachers fall into when they are ' needy'.  It seemed miles away from the teaching we generally see in vocational schools, where despite relatively small class sizes, students are taught 'en masses' and expected to reach a required standard set by the establishment, by the establishment, whether they are ready or not. Sometimes the student can even be ignored in these establishments for months on end or even worse humiliated rather than encouraged and helped.

The good news is that vocational schools are improving ( albeit too slowly) and that sometimes now students will be removed for extra help and tuition on a one to one basis. Not quite the relationship mentioned in the book but better than nothing.

Also, as Kate_N rightly points out, there are plenty diamonds out there. The one I'm thinking about is Desire Samaii who encompasses everything that is wonderful about a teacher, creating truly fulfilling and nurturing one to one relationships within the confines of vocational school. I hope all students will find and have the experience of a Desire Samaii somewhen in their tuition. Sadly, I don't believe there are many of this book around now but happy to lend. 
Reading about Isadora Duncan can also help to inspire young dancers who feel their values and uniqueness are being eroded.

It is because of Desire Samaii that my child found themselves with an unexpected opportunity!! Their experience with her is wonderful.

My child loves Martha Graham and Isadora Duncan, they came to them only recently.

My child has absolutely blossomed under the teachings of some and wilted to the point of dying under other teachers.

I remember at a workshop run by ex ENB principal Dimitri Gruzdev, my teen was struggling to pick up enchainments quickly and became very frustrated; Dimitri said to them, don’t focus too much on your technique because everyone will be watching your beautiful quality of movement and will forgive you many things. It has been comments like this, when a teacher has seen the ‘whole child’ that I believe has the potential to really help the child understand what becoming  a dancer means.

I whole heartedly agree of the importance for the whole child to be seen; and I realise that this is very difficult for some teachers to move towards as it becomes less about them and more about the student. 

 

I just looked up the book on Amazon it is £65 for the paperback!!!

I will try and order it from the library.

 

[Theodore19]

I have always remembered  a phone call that my DS son made from WL. A boy from Japan had been taken into his year group after an overseas competition was asked to stand in front of the other boys and pirouette. 

He did several turns, and when he finished the teacher than shouted at the class. Why can't you do that?

My son replied because you haven't taught us!!!...

Why are talented driven, children picked from hundreds spending hours learning charactor dances and then assessed out and replaced with dancers trained overseas and them passed off as being Royal Ballet Students 

[Ruby Foo]

55 minutes ago, Theodore19 said:

I have always remembered  a phone call that my DS son made from WL. A boy from Japan had been taken into his year group after an overseas competition was asked to stand in front of the other boys and pirouette. 

He did several turns, and when he finished the teacher than shouted at the class. Why can't you do that?

My son replied because you haven't taught us!!!...

Why are talented driven, children picked from hundreds spending hours learning charactor dances and then assessed out and replaced with dancers trained overseas and them passed off as being Royal Ballet Students 

The million dollar question that everyone's been asking for a very long time.....

[Tiaramum]

22 hours ago, Theodore19 said:

I have always remembered  a phone call that my DS son made from WL. A boy from Japan had been taken into his year group after an overseas competition was asked to stand in front of the other boys and pirouette. 

He did several turns, and when he finished the teacher than shouted at the class. Why can't you do that?

My son replied because you haven't taught us!!!...

Why are talented driven, children picked from hundreds spending hours learning charactor dances and then assessed out and replaced with dancers trained overseas and them passed off as being Royal Ballet Students 

Yes this!!! And those in positions of authority at RBS won't answer the question. 

 

[Kerfuffle]

So I guess the way around this to enter competitions where these kids are winning then be spotted 😏? 

[glowlight]

On 03/07/2022 at 19:19, Millicent said:

This is definitely sobering information for me, as I have a Y5 JA DD who is desperate to get into WL. I have never been a fan of her ballet career aspirations but am in a difficult position as I don't feel that I can shatter her dreams by bot letting her audition. 

On the plus side @Millicent - you are going into this with eyes wide open, which is more than many of us have been able to.

 

I would encourage you and your DD to look at a range of different schools when it comes to lower school auditions.  RBS is far from being the only option.  In anticipation of this could you line up some experience of other schools through summer schools perhaps?