The red shoes Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Whiteduvet said: Yes he knows. As keeps on being mentioned on his thread, a large number of his students have actually mainly been trained elsewhere. My points were surely obvious. You cannot compare boys to girls. You cannot compare experiences of year 7 to year 9. Competition hots up and the sleepover ends. Finally, there are many ways to skin a cat. Find the right school for your child but do your research. So many (JA) parents I met had no idea of the potential difficulties which lie ahead, again, mainly for girls. Hopefully all children are at or manage to find the right school for them. Yes a large number of his students have been taught else where… and? He doesn’t hide this fact.., it’s all over social media every day at the minute where they have trained. Same is starting to happen at Elmhurst. I wonder if I’m a couple of years time we will see all the “ Elmhurst bashing “ too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalletBoysDad Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, AllAboutTheJourney said: I have tried not to get involved in this discussion again because – let’s face it – no one should have to justify their own family’s decision to anyone else but the tone of some posts is getting a bit condescending. I have said many times that this is a very useful forum (and this discussion is a great example of it) because parents of younger children can learn from those who have been through things before – and my opinion on that hasn’t changed. But just because a particular school or pathway isn’t right for a particular child doesn’t mean it won’t be right for another. Perhaps we could just bear that in mind. Whether to accept any vocational place (for people who are personally in that position and not just speculating about it) is a very personal decision based on a huge range of family/financial/geographic/personality and other factors (and certainly not one which will be made lightly or naively by anyone who has ever read any of the threads here!). While I do not doubt that things may have been different in the past (even the very recent past), anyone who has been involved in the vocational audition process this year will be fully aware that what RBS is offering for any incoming Y7 is a 3 year course. Like it or not, at least they are being transparent about that now. As @AllAboutTheJourneyjust said, anyone who has been offered WL this year has been told implicitly on more than one occasion that it is a 3 year programme, and there are enormous consequences and considerations for what happens from Y10. That has been reiterated by the artistic director on zoom, in email offers, at open days, in the actual contract. No one will have made the decision to accept the places for their children, wether boy or girl, lightly or by being ill-informed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverdancedjustamum Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, BalletBoysDad said: I completely agree. Our education system totally lets down our young people with languages. WAY OFF TOPIC HERE, but I am sure Brexit will hardly encourage further government investment in European languages from a young age, especially with barriers to freedom of movement etc.... I'm always amazed by the level of language proficiency (frequently more than 2 languages) in other countries at such a young age. Having spent time living in China and Hong Kong, I have seen first hand many young children and teenagers perfectly equipped with language proficiency to explore educational opportunities abroad in 2nd languages from quite a young age. There is also the added consideration that the language proficiency isn't just to 'get by' academically, its also to be able social integrate and 'live' in the host country. A young UK student living in (eg) Russia might 'just about get by' in the dance studio, but living in the country would be extremely challenging, and the academics would be nigh-on impossible. That would be very different for a Russian with even moderate English language proficiency coming to the UK... That's why I raised the point that RBS must get an overwhelming amount of international applicants due to tuition in English, that sees a world-class training centre attract world-class talent. Yes, I completely get that IF its world-class, the training on offer from the younger ages (for example, WL entry in Y7) should benefit domestic students to a much greater statistical extent going into Y10 and upper school than it currently does. I'm not even sure this information is available, but it would be fascinating to know the domestic-to-international applicant ratio for a number of the world's most 'known schools' and I have a feeling it would shed light on why a domestic UK student has an increasingly challenging job gaining upper school entry to English schools. Language may be part of it admittedly but willingness is a big factor too. I used to work in a place that ran an exchange programme - students from overseas study in the U.K. for a term or two, U.K. students are sent overseas in exchange. Every year we were inundated with applications from students wanting to study in the U.K. temporarily even those with the minimum English proficiently requirement. We almost had to pay British students to go overseas even to countries known to speak English. We always wondered why. I grew up in a country where most people grow up bilingual so it was never an issue to go overseas, and most people I know have been placed in situations where they go and study somewhere where they don’t know the local language. Perhaps students should also explore schools beyond borders. However, it’s probably rarer to find U.K. students in upper schools overseas than vice versa. For example, I know of a highly rated vocational school overseas which only ever had one British student as far as I know (not RBS trained at any point). And yet every year British students, both from full time vocational schools here and non full time apply for that school’s summer intensive which is know to be an audition for their full time programme in itself. So far, I haven’t seen anyone get through to their full time programme. Language barrier isn’t a problem - they have a lot of American students. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballet Saga Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, The red shoes said: Dear me, you sound VERY bitter. I’ve never once said it’s the be all and end all!! And actually his dream is NOT to be in the RB company.., he wishes to dance with Matthew Bourne one day. He knows he is getting the best training in the Uk … and he knows it could end . We’ve talked about what he would do and where to go from there. I am trying to give a balanced view of a VERY one sided thread where everyone is determined to bash RBS.. for reasons only they truly know. Body type I was referring to girls mainly …. You sound very let down and very angry .. Bitter, let down, and angry? Thankfully I am none of those things. You have very clearly, from your previous comments, got an idealised view of RBS. Probably because your son attends. I don’t see any RBS bashing going on. I just see people being brave to say what a lot of people think. I doubt RBS are concerned if anyone is ‘bashing’ them. You don’t need to defend them. I am sure they know they can thrive whatever is said because of the elitist attitude towards them. I gather your son is 11/12? I doubt he has the wherewithal to quite understand the impact being assessed out could have on him. How will he feel if he has to go on to have 2 years of ‘mediocre’ training elsewhere? I actually wonder if you’re bitter? Did you not succeed how you perhaps imagined you would? It’s good to hear the negatives and positives of all schools. Some children do well, some don’t. Even some RBS children don’t succeed you know, even with the ‘world class’ training. Shock horror! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalletBoysDad Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Neverdancedjustamum said: Language may be part of it admittedly but willingness is a big factor too. I used to work in a place that ran an exchange programme - students from overseas study in the U.K. for a term or two, U.K. students are sent overseas in exchange. Every year we were inundated with applications from students wanting to study in the U.K. temporarily even those with the minimum English proficiently requirement. We almost had to pay British students to go overseas even to countries known to speak English. We always wondered why. I grew up in a country where most people grow up bilingual so it was never an issue to go overseas, and most people I know have been placed in situations where they go and study somewhere where they don’t know the local language. Perhaps students should also explore schools beyond borders. However, it’s probably rarer to find U.K. students in upper schools overseas than vice versa. For example, I know of a highly rated vocational school overseas which only ever had one British student as far as I know (not RBS trained at any point). And yet every year British students, both from full time vocational schools here and non full time apply for that school’s summer intensive which is know to be an audition for their full time programme in itself. So far, I haven’t seen anyone get through to their full time programme. Language barrier isn’t a problem - they have a lot of American students. If, for example, we were discussing the National Ballet School in Canada, where their summer programme can lead to/function as audition time the main school…. Their annual fees are, off the top of my head, pretty much the same as RBS full boarding fees. I think the fees for the Australian Ballet are much the same: I don’t know, because I genuinely haven’t done the research, if there is any government scheme or grant similar to MDS that covers international fees. If there isn’t, it means that these schools are only for those who can afford £3-4K a month in fees, yet alone uniforms and modest living costs. I’d be fascinated to know if schemes exists to make English language training in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, even the United States an option. Edited July 13, 2022 by BalletBoysDad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballet Saga Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, BalletBoysDad said: As @AllAboutTheJourneyjust said, anyone who has been offered WL this year has been told implicitly on more than one occasion that it is a 3 year programme, and there are enormous consequences and considerations for what happens from Y10. That has been reiterated by the artistic director on zoom, in email offers, at open days, in the actual contract. No one will have made the decision to accept the places for their children, wether boy or girl, lightly or by being ill-informed. But I wonder if they won’t turn a place down because of the elitist attitude that is propagated? As though saying no to RBS is a nail in the coffin of their child’s career! (Which it most certainly isn’t). Still those parents will believe it won’t happen to their child. From what I’ve heard children who were assessed out had not warning. Their reports were outstanding. Lulled into a false sense of security no doubt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverdancedjustamum Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 minute ago, BalletBoysDad said: If, for example, we were discussing the National Ballet School in Canada, where their summer programme can lead to/function as audition time the main school…. Their annual fees are, off the top of my head, pretty much the same as RBS full boarding fees. I think the fees for the Australian Ballet are much the same: I don’t know, because I genuinely haven’t done the research, if there is any government scheme or grant similar to MDS that covers international fees. If there isn’t, it means that these schools are only for those who can afford £3-4K a month in fees and modest living costs. The school I had in mind is in Europe and has cheaper fees than the RBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalletBoysDad Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Neverdancedjustamum said: The school I had in mind is in Europe and has cheaper fees than the RBS. Yes, European fees are a dream in comparison to U.K. fees. That’s why we explored POB. I believe a full terms tuition and boarding is the same cost as 2 weeks at WL or Tring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The red shoes Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Graceful said: Bitter, let down, and angry? Thankfully I am none of those things. You have very clearly, from your previous comments, got an idealised view of RBS. Probably because your son attends. I don’t see any RBS bashing going on. I just see people being brave to say what a lot of people think. I doubt RBS are concerned if anyone is ‘bashing’ them. You don’t need to defend them. I am sure they know they can thrive whatever is said because of the elitist attitude towards them. I gather your son is 11/12? I doubt he has the wherewithal to quite understand the impact being assessed out could have on him. How will he feel if he has to go on to have 2 years of ‘mediocre’ training elsewhere? I actually wonder if you’re bitter? Did you not succeed how you perhaps imagined you would? It’s good to hear the negatives and positives of all schools. Some children do well, some don’t. Even some RBS children don’t succeed you know, even with the ‘world class’ training. Shock horror! I DO NOT have an idealised view.. for the love of his where are you getting this from? I’m all about balance.. something that is clearly lacking. A very nasty undertone in this thread and yes “ bashing” is happening. You are VERY personal in your comments… assuming things of my life? What had that got to do with assessing out? My parents couldn’t have given two hoots if I danced or not. Yes he is nearly 12 and yes he knows exactly what could happen.. really.. do you think all the parents don’t dis ids this with our children regularly? Do you think we all sit there with rose tinted glasses on worshiping the school !?? 😂 how far from the truth. The only thing that keeps us sending them back term after term is their desire and passion to be there…and yes , they actually love being there!! Shock horror!! Edited July 13, 2022 by The red shoes Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The red shoes Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Graceful said: But I wonder if they won’t turn a place down because of the elitist attitude that is propagated? As though saying no to RBS is a nail in the coffin of their child’s career! (Which it most certainly isn’t). Still those parents will believe it won’t happen to their child. From what I’ve heard children who were assessed out had not warning. Their reports were outstanding. Lulled into a false sense of security no doubt. Perhaps their reports were outstanding but they physically had changed. RBS cannot put that on an assessment report as a reason to assess out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAboutTheJourney Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Graceful said: But I wonder if they won’t turn a place down because of the elitist attitude that is propagated? As though saying no to RBS is a nail in the coffin of their child’s career! (Which it most certainly isn’t). Still those parents will believe it won’t happen to their child. From what I’ve heard children who were assessed out had not warning. Their reports were outstanding. Lulled into a false sense of security no doubt. This is unfair, and untrue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballet Saga Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, The red shoes said: Yes a large number of his students have been taught else where… and? He doesn’t hide this fact.., it’s all over social media every day at the minute where they have trained. Same is starting to happen at Elmhurst. I wonder if I’m a couple of years time we will see all the “ Elmhurst bashing “ too? Would you feel the need to defend Elmhurst too if you saw what you perceived to be ‘Elmhurst bashing’? The point that most of the students are trained elsewhere is a good point. It is basically saying why go to RBS if you can be trained well enough elsewhere? Especially if those children don’t have the mental health issues that come from going to a vocational boarding school. I will state again - there are many opportunities for training other than RBS and the other big vocational schools. Excellent training at that. I would hate it if parents thought that their child was at a disadvantage because they didn’t want the upheaval of a vocational school for their child. They are not at a disadvantage if you can find good training near to home. Do your research. Aim for upper schools, colleges - here or abroad. It can be done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballet Saga Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 minute ago, The red shoes said: Perhaps their reports were outstanding but they physically had changed. RBS cannot put that on an assessment report as a reason to assess out You are making that up. You really have no idea why they were assessed out, even with outstanding reports. You are blaming physicality because you can’t think of anything else and you are defending RBS above all else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The red shoes Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 Just now, Graceful said: You are making that up. You really have no idea why they were assessed out, even with outstanding reports. You are blaming physicality because you can’t think of anything else and you are defending RBS above all else. 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballet Saga Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, AllAboutTheJourney said: This is unfair, and untrue. Is it? Why do you say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The red shoes Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 Just now, The red shoes said: 😂 Read my other comments… I’m not defending them at all. I’m just trying to be a bit more balanced.. try it! It’s good for the soul. With that I bid you a good day 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballet Saga Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 Just now, The red shoes said: 😂 Is it a laughing matter? That you are blaming the physical aspects of a young teenagers body as to why they were assessed out? It seems you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballet Saga Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 Just now, The red shoes said: Read my other comments… I’m not defending them at all. I’m just trying to be a bit more balanced.. try it! It’s good for the soul. With that I bid you a good day 😊 I have read them and they’re not balanced. You are failing at ‘trying to be a bit more balanced’. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllAboutTheJourney Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 @Graceful I'm not disputing for one minute that there are other opportunities for training other than RBS - no-one is - and to be honest I have personally received excellent advice to that effect both in public on these boards and in very helpful DMs from parents who have gone down various different routes with their children. But that doesn't make anyone who chooses to go down the RBS route (or indeed any other vocational school) wrong or naïve or incapable or unwilling to do research on this subject. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalletcoForum Moderators Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 This thread has been locked to allow for cooling off. The moderators will determine if and when the thread is unlocked. We would also remind people that unpleasant personal attacks are not tolerated on this forum. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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