ENGLISH NATIONAL BALLET: RAYMONDA

[Geoff]

1 hour ago, Emeralds said:

Imagine trying to tell Martha Argerich or Bryn Terfel how long their quavers should be according to historical notes on how it was performed in Tchaikovsky’s  or Mussorgsky’s time- you’d get a frozen stare of death and probably banned from the concert hall. 

 

I only had professional experience of working with one of the two artists you name. But in this person's case (as with others in the performing arts over my career) questions of historical performance practice, academic research and discovery, and a commitment to honouring the original creative intentions have been a significant part of their working life. So if you had something useful to say about quavers, this would be taken seriously.

 

By the way, as you mention Tchaikovsky, research on his use of the metronome (and therefore "quavers") has been very useful to professionals. Although, as is sometimes discussed here, there are ballet companies known to ignore his metronome markings as their dancers can't handle the original tempi. 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Geoff

[bridiem]

1 hour ago, Dawnstar said:

(This forum should be very beneficial to my moral character: it sometimes feels as though every other question I ask is viewed as inappropriate & every other suggestion I make is contradicted for being wrong!)

 

It may sometimes feel like that to you, Dawnstar, but please be assured that you ask a lot of entirely appropriate questions and make many interesting and apposite suggestions!

[Lizbie1]

I know a deal more about historically informed performance practice in music than in ballet, but if we're seeking parallels perhaps the biggest one is that the consensus has a habit of shifting.

 

About Tchaikovsky and metronome markings: I don't want to sound facetious but they might actually be of more value to dance historians than they are to musicians. Early recordings of piano music - not so long after Tchaikovsky's death - suggest a a wide latitude afforded to the performer, extending to changing the notes themselves. (While I don't recall studying examples of Tchaikovsky's own piano works I don't think it's unreasonable to extrapolate across from other composers' works.)

[FionaM]

What a show!  I loved this second viewing even more … I was at today’s final matinee show and also the dress rehearsal a week ago.  
 

So much wonderful dancing in this, with joyous costumes and of course the glorious music.  And, I am so impressed by the strength in depth in the company … even with the last minute covid cast changes.  Really fabulous performances from soloists and ensemble in all the dances … all of them, including the very difficult male pas de quatre.  (Fine for many to do solo, it’s the togetherness that is tough.) 
 

I noticed more of the enhanced story on the second viewing… especially the scarf exchanges and Raymonda’s confusion of her choice.  I think it’s a keeper.   I would want to see it again to appreciate different casts.  I don’t care about the criticism that  “it’s a thin story”!  The settings and costumes and glorious choreography are enough.  
 

A few cast comments … (trying to be fair to dress rehearsal participants by only highlighting good things 😉)
 

Raymonda - I loved the serene princess-like quality of Shiori Kase, and also Fernanda Oliveria’s clear story-telling.  (I expect all casts improved in that aspect over the week.)

 

John de Bryan - immense technique on display from both Isaac Hernandez and Francesco Frola.  Isaac has long, beautiful lines and super splits in jetes, and both have super control.  Frola had some amazing elevation and I felt real pathos in his character.  
 

Abdur Rahman - more amazing technique from both Jeffrey Cirio and Erik Woolhouse.  I felt very sorry for the heartbroken lads who both fell deeply in love and were thinking it was reciprocated, only to have Raymonda renew her promise to marry the other man.    
 

Enormous jumps and impressive stage presence from Erik.  He was so good today I half expected another on stage promotion.  But that’s not usually the case for soloists , I realise.  

 

Too many super performances to list them all.  Bravo everyone.   Can’t wait for the next time.  

[Thecatsmother]

My first attempt at seeing Raymonda was cancelled but I was fortunate enough to catch it on its last day.  So nice the company managed to perform in the end. 
My opinion- there is a lot for the dancers to get their teeth into but maybe too much to chew fully. I think it needs editing. There were some lovely moments of choreography but it would benefit from being shaped together as a whole more. At times it felt a bit disjointed and I found the ending was a bit flat compared to other versions.

On the whole the male dancers were on good form although some spacing issues in Act 1. I particularly enjoyed the performances of Francesca V, Ivana B and Georgia B as lead nurse.

Although it would not have been my choice of cast the solos and pas de deux were well danced but Olivera lacked the lines of some of the other performers. Despite this, she is doing well given how long she has been in the company. There does seem to be a lot of younger members of the company beginning to come into their own so it will be interesting to follow over the next few years. I am undecided as to whether Natasha M would be better suited in a company with more taller dancers in order to look her best alongside other dancers.  She has however grown in confidence since I last saw her perform.

I found the dream act interesting but perhaps a little blue. On the subject of dreams, I am sure Fernanda would have been awoken by the deluge of noisy pointe shoes which clearly needed more hammering pre show. Despite this, it was visually pleasing to watch.

Call me old school but I do prefer the more ornate ACT 3 version with costuming to show off the dancers legs better. The costumes were beautiful throughout the performance but the rustic look of act 3 was not my favourite. The character dances throughout were refreshing to watch and clearly somebody had spent a considerable amount of time and care rehearsing these. This was something that fitted well and provided a break from the usual typical dances that tend to be seen in full length ballets.

I would like to have seen this once more with a different cast and would go back to see a slightly refined and edited version.

Credit goes to the conductor who is a joy to watch as always and brings such energy and commitment to his work. I always find I spend part of the performance watching him conduct as it us truly mesmerising to watch and listen to. I shall never forget him in Strictly Gershwin some years ago where he ‘danced’ throughout most of the show.
I look forward to the Forsyth program and hopefully easier conditions for the dancers to work through next time. They did amazingly well given the current work conditions. 

[Lizbie1]

4 hours ago, Thecatsmother said:

Call me old school but I do prefer the more ornate ACT 3 version with costuming to show off the dancers legs better. The costumes were beautiful throughout the performance but the rustic look of act 3 was not my favourite.

 

Yes! I couldn't help thinking of the designs for the RB Act 3. This isn't just unfair of me because of the revisions to the story, but because virtually any designs would suffer in that comparison.

[Geoff]

9 hours ago, Lizbie1 said:

About Tchaikovsky and metronome markings: I don't want to sound facetious but they might actually be of more value to dance historians than they are to musicians. Early recordings of piano music - not so long after Tchaikovsky's death - suggest a a wide latitude afforded to the performer, extending to changing the notes themselves. (While I don't recall studying examples of Tchaikovsky's own piano works I don't think it's unreasonable to extrapolate across from other composers' works.)

You’re not being facetious @Lizbie1, I failed to explain the point properly. Tchaikovsky’s working metronome makings on the rehearsal score of The Sleeping Beauty are invaluable. These date from the period leading up to the first performance when Petipa, Drigo and Tchaikovsky were working with the original cast. This is not like questions of pianistic (say) interpretation, it is how a complex stage work was intended to go by those who created it.

 

For what it’s worth, the filmed record shows the Royal Ballet broadly dancing at those speeds up to the 1970s. As you probably know the Forum has discussed what happened then.

[Geoff]

On 22/01/2022 at 00:14, Geoff said:

And how much of Raymonda’s choreography - the character, I mean, not the ballet generally - has been cut / shortened / simplified? I have only seen the full-length ballet on stage once (a few years ago in Vienna) and the technical demands made of the eponymous heroine seemed even greater (relentless in fact) compared to what I saw at the Coliseum this week.

I apologise that my original post accidentally set off a discussion about the ENB programme, which is a perfectly nice complement to the show but ducks around an important question for a ballet which is called Raymonda. Here’s another way in to the issue. Might I suggest searching the internet for this video (see below).

 

This shows around half an hour of “best bits” of Raymonda, taken from La Scala’s allegedly authentic production. More to the point it contains much of the dancing one associates with the lead character Raymonda from other productions which have been recorded (and as it happens also from the one time I saw the full ballet in Vienna).
 

So far as I can tell barely any of this dancing appears in the West End ENB show also called “Raymonda”. Which to me seemed something that would have been worth discussing in the programme. After all, it seems ENB’s Raymonda dances little of what she usually dances in “Raymonda” so why has no one mentioned this?

 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Geoff

[bangorballetboy]

9 minutes ago, Geoff said:

I apologise that my original post accidentally set off a discussion about the ENB programme, which is a perfectly nice complement to the show but ducks around an important question for a ballet which is called Raymonda. Here’s another way in to the issue. Might I suggest searching the internet for this video (see below).

 

This shows around half an hour of “best bits” of Raymonda, taken from La Scala’s allegedly authentic production. More to the point it contains much of the dancing one associates with the lead character Raymonda from other productions which have been recorded (and as it happens also from the one time I saw the full ballet in Vienna).
 

So far as I can tell barely any of this dancing appears in the West End ENB show also called “Raymonda”. Which to me seemed something that would have been worth discussing in the programme. After all, it seems ENB’s Raymonda dances little of what she usually dances in “Raymonda” so why has no one mentioned this?

 

 

 

Do you question why Matthew Bourne's reworked Swan Lake doesn't contain much of the usual steps from Petipa's Swan Lake?

 

It has always been clear that the new ENB Raymonda was a reworking of the piece.  As such, I expected a reworking and I saw a reworking.

[Geoff]

 

2 hours ago, bangorballetboy said:

Do you question why Matthew Bourne's reworked Swan Lake doesn't contain much of the usual steps from Petipa's Swan Lake?

 

That's a good comparison. So, how many of the "best bits" of Swan Lake does one get when seeing Bourne's show? And how many of the "best bits" of Raymonda does one get with the ENB show (Act 3 aside)? 

 

A discussion around what is included - and what is missing - would be informative and useful. As I originally asked:

 

On 22/01/2022 at 00:14, Geoff said:

how much of Raymonda’s choreography - the character, I mean, not the ballet generally - has been cut / shortened / simplified?...Any choreological tips very welcome!

[alison]

While hunting for my feedback on the Bolshoi Jewels, I came across the feedback for the Bolshoi's Raymonda from a couple of seasons ago, so post it here in case it's of use/interest. From a quick skim, I'd guess that the choreography is spread out more over the entire company in ENB's version.

 

 

[Sim]

I saw two performances of Raymonda, Saturday night and Sunday matinee.  As someone who does not know the ballet and has never seen it (except Act 3 in various guises) I had no basis of comparison and therefore cannot ascribe any opinions as to changes in choreography, order of music, etc.  So I decided to just go and watch it as if it were a new ballet...and in so doing, I thoroughly enjoyed it!  

 

I knew that the plot was thin, so I just went along hoping to see beautiful dance and hear gorgeous music...and my hopes were fulfilled.  Both casts were very impressive, and the company as a whole is looking great.  I hadn't seen them for awhile as I cannot bear their Nutcracker so skipped their Coli Christmas season.   I think that both Shiori Kase and Fernanda Oliveira as Raymonda probably could have made more of the dramatic side of the role, but in the context of the whole, this time it didn't matter too much to me.  Their dancing was pretty and technically assured.  I was mightily impressed with the Abdur Rahman of both Jeffrey Cirio and Erik Woolhouse.  Each of them made the most of the role within the limitations of the plot.  Of Isaac Hernandez and Francesco Frola as John de Bryan (if you are going to anglicise this name, why the 'de'?!), although both were on a par technically, I think Frola just pips it from the acting aspect.  Of the other solo roles, I was as always impressed by Francesca Velicu (as Henriette).  Not only is she a lovely dancer, but she has such stage presence...always a sense of fun, or sweetness, or whatever else she is portraying.  I can't believe that she is still a First Artist, and I truly hope that she gets the promotion she deserves at the end of the season.

 

I would like to thank Ms Rojo for giving the male dancers so much to do.  It was wonderful to see their technical prowess coming to the fore...but all in the context of the choreography.  It worked because they danced to together as a team, and not for themselves as individuals saying 'look at me!'  Very impressive.

 

Because I don't know the original ballet, I didn't know most of the music, either...and what a revelation it was to me.  It was beautifully played by the ENB Philharmonic, Gavin Sutherland bringing out the best of the music and the musicians to create a lovely, lush sound that reached up to every part of the Coliseum.  

 

Yes....there are cuts that can be made.  Yes....the story could be made clearer and beefed up a bit.  No....you cannot get better than this if you want to experience the pure joy of ballet and music, and have some colour added to a grey winter's day at the end of two difficult years for everyone.  Both of the audiences clearly felt the same way, and the applause for both performances was long, loud and enthusiastic.  Bravo ENB.

[Rob S]

11 minutes ago, Sim said:

  Of Isaac Hernandez and Francesco Frola as John de Bryan (if you are going to anglicise this name, why the 'de'?!)........,

 

It's all a bit Anton du Bec😄

 

Did Tamara Rojo appear on stage at the end of either of the performances you saw? I'm slightly disappointed that I ended up going to one of the few performances she was nowhere to be seen.

 

 

[Sim]

Yes, she came onstage on Saturday night to announce Shiori Kase's promotion to Lead Principal...although I am not sure it was a surprise to her as it was already on the ENB website!

[LinMM]

Rob S .....we will soon need a laughing emoji to cover some of your posts!!  Used in the best possible spirit of course! Luckily am not on a train this morning lol! 

[Dawnstar]

1 hour ago, alison said:

While hunting for my feedback on the Bolshoi Jewels, I came across the feedback for the Bolshoi's Raymonda from a couple of seasons ago, so post it here in case it's of use/interest. From a quick skim, I'd guess that the choreography is spread out more over the entire company in ENB's version.

 

I don't know about the comparison specifically with the Bolshoi, but I'd certainly agree that the choreography is very much spread over the entire company in ENB's version. I realised by the end of Act III that I would have liked to have seen rather more solo dancing for all 3 of the leading roles. It felt as though a large amount of the dancing was given to either the entire corps or smaller groups/duos/trios.

[Emeralds]

17 hours ago, Dawnstar said:

It must be a great relief to ENB, after all their last-minute Nutcracker cancellations & cast changes and the postponement & re-arrangements of Raymonda's performances, that they've finally managed to present it this week & without any major last minute-cast changes either.

 

Apologies for asking about Alison McWhinney. I didn't think it was wrong to wonder about the whereabouts of a dancer one likes who was indicated to be dancing & then didn't do so, but evidently it is. (This forum should be very beneficial to my moral character: it sometimes feels as though every other question I ask is viewed as inappropriate & every other suggestion I make is contradicted for being wrong!)

I missed Alison McWhinney too, having enjoyed her beautiful phrasing and impressive control in the difficult variation she danced in the rehearsal clip. Alison has developed into such a charismatic artist with wonderful dramatic gifts and the ability to find the soul in each role. That said, I could only make it to one show in a frustratingly packed fortnight so I just assumed she was dancing a different night. We had Precious Adams dancing Clemence at our show and she was just as impressive- Precious really inhabited the role fully, and in the context of the story, I thought she embodied the qualities of Florence Nightingale, Sister Mary Clare Moore, and Mary Seacole, three of the inspirational nurses listed on the production info on ENB’s page, and made the nursing and come alive.

 

I think you ask very reasonable questions, Dawnstar, don’t worry. I think it’s just that on the forum page, a typed sentence can sometimes have more than one interpretation and someone may read the alternative interpretation which while not an incorrect understanding of what the words say, may be very far from the meaning you intended! I often end up re-editing my comments about 3 to 6 times when I realise they can be misconstrued! 

[Emeralds]

59 minutes ago, Rob S said:

 

It's all a bit Anton du Bec😄

 

Did Tamara Rojo appear on stage at the end of either of the performances you saw? I'm slightly disappointed that I ended up going to one of the few performances she was nowhere to be seen.

 

 

Tamara came onstage on Sat afternoon (to present Erina with the silver rose and bouquet) and started her speech saying “I’m sorry to interrupt your afternoon”, which I thought was funny as my first thought was, “no, it’s no interruption, I’m very comfortable in my seat and it gives me more time to get another picture. Ok, who’s getting a promotion or a present?” 

 

As Tamara had appeared after every show on Friday, Saturday afternoon, Saturday night, I thought it was going to be a trend of some sort and wondered what gift, celebration or promotion she could possibly do on Sunday too! 

[LinMM]

Promotion of Francesca Velicu perhaps? 

[Sim]

1 minute ago, LinMM said:

Promotion of Francesca Velicu perhaps? 

That would have been lovely at yesterday's performance, but I think I am correct in saying that the honour of an onstage promotion only goes to principals and lead principals...

[Emeralds]

17 hours ago, Geoff said:

 

I only had professional experience of working with one of the two artists you name. But in this person's case (as with others in the performing arts over my career) questions of historical performance practice, academic research and discovery, and a commitment to honouring the original creative intentions have been a significant part of their working life. So if you had something useful to say about quavers, this would be taken seriously.

 

By the way, as you mention Tchaikovsky, research on his use of the metronome (and therefore "quavers") has been very useful to professionals. Although, as is sometimes discussed here, there are ballet companies known to ignore his metronome markings as their dancers can't handle the original tempi. 

 

Geoff, I think you just hit the nail on the head - “something useful”.  It wasn’t  useful! 

[Emeralds]

2 hours ago, Geoff said:

 

 

That's a good comparison. So, how many of the "best bits" of Swan Lake does one get when seeing Bourne's show? And how many of the "best bits" of Raymonda does one get with the ENB show (Act 3 aside)? 

 

A discussion around what is included - and what is missing - would be informative and useful. As I originally asked:

 

Um, Geoff, the Matthew Bourne Swan Lake is a contemporary dance work which is completely different in intention and plot. 😊 Apart from the same music being used and the character of a Prince, his mother, a palace, a lake and the presence of swans, there are no other similarities with Tchaikovsky’s original ballet. There is no Odette/Odile and there are no swan maidens. I’d say the music is probably only the “best bit”. The prince and his mother could equally be any man and his mother/guardian and who doesn’t have to be the queen.

 

I’ve addressed all your Raymonda questions and others have added a few other useful pointers - you might have to scroll back a bit to find these points.   But actually, if one is never going to buy the La Scala Raymonda DVD with Novikova or to travel to Russia to see the Bolshoi or Mariinsky versions, what does it matter? The ENB one is a very good production. You can’t compare what you never knew. The Mariinsky one (with Tereshkina and Parish)  and Bolshoi one (with Stepanova and Volchkov) are available on Youtube (for now!) for free if you’re really interested in comparing. I would warn you that for a very long ballet, it might feel like a long watch on a two dimensional screen compared to the energetic and charismatic performances in person that ENB gave, though. 

 

[FionaM]

2 hours ago, Geoff said:

 

 

That's a good comparison. So, how many of the "best bits" of Swan Lake does one get when seeing Bourne's show? 

 

that’s an easy one to answer … NONE.  Matthew Bourne’s Swan Lake is a total rework.  The only overlap with the classic ballet is the music.
 

Ditto Akram Khan’s Giselle has none of the same choreography or even the same steps as the classic Giselle.  The music has strains of the original Giselle score and the characters have parallels with the original.

 

This Raymonda reworking is very different to those two… in that it is still classical ballet … en pointe, using classical ballet steps.  Many of the solos are very close, although overplayed with the new narrative.  In this version, I did notice the male pas de quatre has an extra pirouette thrown in before the usual double tour sequence starts.  They coped very well with this extra difficulty, though I’m not sure it was necessary!  I’m less familiar with the ensemble pieces to be able to compare. (I must find one online whilst the live one is fresh in my mind).

 

I tend to think of this new one as a change of costume style (no tutus) and a change of story and setting with some new and altered choreography to fit the new narrative.

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

1 minute ago, FionaE said:

that’s an easy one to answer … NONE.  Matthew Bourne’s Swan Lake is a total rework.  The only overlap with the classic ballet is the music.

 

 

 

I don't entirely agree with your comment re Bourne's Swan Lake.  I think that the overall production has the same structure as a Petipa-based Swan Lake. 

 

When Swan Lake was 100 in 1995 I can remember reading a number of articles about the history and have thought for some time that Bourne's Swan Lake mirrors the more conventional productions.

 

I actually believe that although it is still in the classical idiom David Nixon's production of Swan Lake for Northern Ballet is more radical in its structure.

[Lizbie1]

I'm slightly lost in several layers of who really needs clarification and which questions are basically rhetorical, but here's my reading of the situation: Rojo's primary interest is not in pleasing people with a keen interest in ballet history or hardcore ballet fans. She sees her job as bringing some very good choreography and beautiful music to a general audience for their entertainment and pleasure.

 

Very few people watching ENB perform Raymonda will have seen a more traditional performance - it just doesn't have a place in any UK company's repertoire, other than the RB Act 3 - so comparisons with such productions are somewhat missing the point. We should be looking at what this production is rather than what it isn't.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Lizbie1
mangled sentence

[Lizbie1]

Having said that, I enjoyed yesterday. There's a lot of fun and/or beautiful choreography and a cracking score - being largely unfamiliar with it, I noticed few jarring moments. I wasn't mad keen on some of the more modern choreography but I have no problems with it being in a different style: I think a good analogy would be with the currently approved practice in restoring seriously damaged old buildings, where they like it to be clear which work is later rather than a simple pastiche.

 

As to the performance itself, I thought it mostly very well danced though it certainly had its moments.  Overall it was good but not great - I'd gladly see it again but wouldn't go all out to do so.

[bangorballetboy]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

John de Bryan (if you are going to anglicise this name, why the 'de'?!)

 

The de Bryan family has been in England (with land) for the best part of 1000 years (those Normans get everywhere after William 1 came called - note the name used as I'm currently sitting in the City of London).  Whilst some branches of the family have dropped the "de", others have retained it.

[FionaM]

@Jan McNulty I should have clarified .. I meant there is no overlap in the choreography of MB Swan Lake with the classic ballet

Edited January 24, 2022 by FionaE
Clarification of which ballet

[Emeralds]

2 hours ago, alison said:

While hunting for my feedback on the Bolshoi Jewels, I came across the feedback for the Bolshoi's Raymonda from a couple of seasons ago, so post it here in case it's of use/interest. From a quick skim, I'd guess that the choreography is spread out more over the entire company in ENB's version.

 

 

Thank you for reposting the thread, Alison! Just to warn/inform some who have previously quibbled here and in the NYT & the slipped disc website about Rojo’s changes to the score, the current Bolshoi version has a lot of changes and “messing about” with Glazunov’s score too. And also the story. I don’t mind- I think it works, in the same way that I think the ENB version works. But the Bolshoi version, pretty as it is, is certainly not anything like the original. 

[Geoff]

46 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

Geoff, I think you just hit the nail on the head - “something useful”.  It wasn’t useful! 

 

11 minutes ago, Emeralds said:

the Bolshoi version, pretty as it is, is certainly not anything like the original. 

 

@Emeralds I hope you don't mean that you feel my posts are not useful. I am asking basic questions about how this show relates to the Petipa "original" (to use your word). You have indeed given your answers, for which I thank you even though I am still not quite sure what exactly has been saved/changed/abandoned etc from what you called "Raymonda doing a marathon of lots of technical solos and duets" (this question based on my seeing the ENB show three times and going through the La Scala recording quite carefully - I don't remember the Bolshoi, which I've only seen once - so if you can spare any more expert time that would be great). 

 

However tracking back I suspect it might rather be the online conversation between Alastair Macaulay, Doug Fullington and Sergey Konaev posted earlier by @Sebastian which you do not find useful. As Fullington was actually employed by Tamara Rojo on this production, I would have thought that anything he had to say might be useful. On the point that seems particularly to have met with your disapproval - the brief discussion on the handclaps - I note that Fullington has a different preference to the ENB production. That in itself is (a little bit) interesting but is perhaps also an indication that Tamara Rojo did not find it "useful", as is her right. Academic research can only get us so far. 

[Emeralds]

52 minutes ago, Geoff said:

 

 

@Emeralds I hope you don't mean that you feel my posts are not useful. I am asking basic questions about how this show relates to the Petipa "original" (to use your word). You have indeed given your answers, for which I thank you even though I am still not quite sure what exactly has been saved/changed/abandoned etc from what you called "Raymonda doing a marathon of lots of technical solos and duets" (this question based on my seeing the ENB show three times and going through the La Scala recording quite carefully - I don't remember the Bolshoi, which I've only seen once - so if you can spare any more expert time that would be great). 

 

However tracking back I suspect it might rather be the online conversation between Alastair Macaulay, Doug Fullington and Sergey Konaev posted earlier by @Sebastian which you do not find useful. As Fullington was actually employed by Tamara Rojo on this production, I would have thought that anything he had to say might be useful. On the point that seems particularly to have met with your disapproval - the brief discussion on the handclaps - I note that Fullington has a different preference to the ENB production. That in itself is (a little bit) interesting but is perhaps also an indication that Tamara Rojo did not find it "useful", as is her right. Academic research can only get us so far. 

No, I meant the podcast that Macaulay did with Fullington was not useful- in fact, if a viewer was interested, I would discourage them from reading it as it has a very high chance of killing any interest they had. I think a discussion with Doug Fullington could have been presented in a format that does justice to the ballet. It was like a shopping list of details that got more and more tedious and annoying as it went on. Fullington has a wealth of knowledge but wasn’t given much chance to share it.

 

I will admit (if not already boringly obvious to forum members) that I’m one of the biggest fans of Glazunov and Raymonda on the planet, although by no means an expert. I could chat with fans about the different dancers who have danced the various  roles - even the solos danced by supporting characters - for hours. If it could bore even me to the point of annoyance about how it is killing the ballet slowly to dissect it to death, you know it is a very, very bad podcast.

 

About the feeling that it is like a marathon of solos, Raymonda isn’t given much acting time in the traditional versions of the ballet if you compare it to roles like Giselle or Odette/Odile, where she is allowed to react to events, show you what she thinks of someone or something. Compare that to a role like Swanilda or Kitri in Coppelia or Don Quixote, where they virtually mastermind the plot. Raymonda in the traditional version  basically gets “happy there’s a party and my friends are here”, “sad and lonely that my fiancé’s gone”, “scared of this Saracen knight”, “happy again that I’m not being abducted, oh cool, we have a wedding”- the writing for this heroine is so one-dimensional that there are emoji stickers with more character development! Giselle gets more plot writing in just two minutes in her scenes with  Hilarion/Hans about whom she is in love with and what she feels about and thinks of Hilarion/Hans. Seems astounding that Raymonda has an aunt and  two named female friends (four if you count Bernard & Beranger, the troubadours)  in the traditional versions but doesn’t even get mime or danced dialogue with them to articulate her feelings and motivations. Hence the flawed plot.

 

Can I also just say how envious I am but pleased for you and for ENB that you were able to attend ENB’s Raymonda not just once but three times. (As are many Manchester audience members who got their shows completely cancelled altogether.) 

 

You ask very good questions, Geoff! Don’t stop asking! It’s how we all make new discoveries. Your posts are useful!  👍

Edited January 24, 2022 by Emeralds

[Drdee]

I have been riveted by this thread and all the different contributions. What’s tough is trying to get to grips with a ‘shared’ understanding as we all are coming from different points of view and prior knowledge. 

[Sim]

21 hours ago, Drdee said:

I have been riveted by this thread and all the different contributions. What’s tough is trying to get to grips with a ‘shared’ understanding as we all are coming from different points of view and prior knowledge. 

I was very happy not to be burdened with any prior knowledge at all, so as I said above I just came to it as a newbie and took it for what it is.  It was lovely not to be comparing, contrasting, thinking of other productions/dancers I had seen, etc. etc.  It was like the first time I read a book when I finished uni;  it felt so free and liberating being able to just pick up a book and read it, without looking for hidden meaning, symbolism, underlining relevant passages, etc. etc.  That's how I felt watching this Raymonda.  Sit back, enjoy it, and don't apply any kind of deep meaning or ascribe the heavy burden of history and heritage to it.   Approaching it like that, I loved it!