Dance.Mum Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Sorry for starting a new thread but I didn’t want to post in several and am interested in hearing about all vocational schools. What are the chances of being offered a vocational school place into Year 10? If you are not successful for scholarship funding (or are ineligible) can you still be offered a place if you can pay fees? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 It’s very possible to be offered a year 10 place at many schools and It is possible to gain funding, although probably tougher than for year 7. However, if a school is inclined, funding can always be found. If you are offered a place without funding, It’s always worth negotiating too - I am aware of more than one person gaining a decent discount on the published fees after some discussion. Good luck! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danceintherain Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 My DD started vocational school at year 10. There were 3 in total who were new into year 10 that year. Funding really depends on the school, many get the help, and for many there are alternative generous bursaries available. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Foo Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Vocational schools usually look to take around 4/5 new students in year 10. 4 boys and 4 girls. Assessments in yr 9 ( where pupils are assessed out of the school) may mean that places become available. Or some pupils may voluntarily change schools at this point before GCSE’s. Sometimes the schools just want to increase the year group. This happens at Tring even though nobody is assessed out. From our own experience, the odd new pupil or 2 is being accepted all the way through the year groups even yr 11 and in any term. Maybe they are doing private auditions or come from wait lists or abroad, where they have experienced different education. Paying full fees will increase your chances but a couple of the schools will offer automatic funding for yr 10 anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milzmam Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Dance.Mum said: Sorry for starting a new thread but I didn’t want to post in several and am interested in hearing about all vocational schools. What are the chances of being offered a vocational school place into Year 10? If you are not successful for scholarship funding (or are ineligible) can you still be offered a place if you can pay fees? Which schools is your dd thinking of auditioning at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancingWellies Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Not sure many other than Royal formally asses out at the end of year 9 anymore. Elmhurst doesn't. It is possible to get a place but competition is still fierce. I think many schools allow people will audition for year group except maybe 11. Whether there are funded places will depend on space for boarding, number leaving, quality of people auditioning. It will vary year to year for each school. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Royal still let people audition for year 11.... despite not actually assessing our at year 10.... back to that cynical raised eyebrow of it being a nice little earner at £65 a pop for dream chasing!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Foo Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 21 minutes ago, Peanut68 said: Royal still let people audition for year 11.... despite not actually assessing our at year 10.... back to that cynical raised eyebrow of it being a nice little earner at £65 a pop for dream chasing!! Although still relatively unusual, there have been several new students in year 11 at RBS. They are mostly from overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milzmam Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 4 hours ago, DancingWellies said: Not sure many other than Royal formally asses out at the end of year 9 anymore. Elmhurst doesn't. It is possible to get a place but competition is still fierce. I think many schools allow people will audition for year group except maybe 11. Whether there are funded places will depend on space for boarding, number leaving, quality of people auditioning. It will vary year to year for each school. As far as I am aware Hammond don't take anyone into year 11. Year 10 is last lower school entry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, valentina said: Although still relatively unusual, there have been several new students in year 11 at RBS. They are mostly from overseas. Different academic routes do enable exceptions to the rule.... am sure if Royal want anyone they would take them!! But it probably is dumb for regular uk school educated to bother for year 11 & pat yet another £65.... but still loads will year after year I’m quite sure 😬 (am prepared to be proved I’m the only dummy of course 🤣) Oh and guess a place would be found were my DC off the scale amazing 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletbean Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 17 hours ago, Peanut68 said: Different academic routes do enable exceptions to the rule.... am sure if Royal want anyone they would take them!! But it probably is dumb for regular uk school educated to bother for year 11 & pat yet another £65.... but still loads will year after year I’m quite sure 😬 (am prepared to be proved I’m the only dummy of course 🤣) Oh and guess a place would be found were my DC off the scale amazing 😉 I wouldn’t like to dampen anyones desire to pursuing their dreams but I do agree with not auditioning for yr11. Not just for the academic reasons as schools vary on their choice of examination boards which could have a detrimental effect on even the highest academic achiever receiving the grades they would have expected had they remained at their school. There’s also absolutely no guarantee of a place for US. That’s before the dreaded word ‘injury’ is even considered let along mentioned. Then what? We are all passionate about the world of dance but we can’t ignore that the rest of the business world incl acceptance at a University (even as a mature student) is based on academic qualifications incl 5 GCSE passes, 2 of which must be Maths & English. None of us know what’s around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Foo Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 hours ago, balletbean said: I wouldn’t like to dampen anyones desire to pursuing their dreams but I do agree with not auditioning for yr11. Not just for the academic reasons as schools vary on their choice of examination boards which could have a detrimental effect on even the highest academic achiever receiving the grades they would have expected had they remained at their school. There’s also absolutely no guarantee of a place for US. That’s before the dreaded word ‘injury’ is even considered let along mentioned. Then what? We are all passionate about the world of dance but we can’t ignore that the rest of the business world incl acceptance at a University (even as a mature student) is based on academic qualifications incl 5 GCSE passes, 2 of which must be Maths & English. None of us know what’s around the corner. I don’t believe this view is always shared by overseas ballet students especially in Asian countries (many who have been homeschooled) who have their own ideas about academic education and ‘plan B’, and do not need to be stereotyped into our own version of what’s acceptable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I think RBS is subject to the same rules as any UK academic school in that they have to prepare their aged under 16 pupils for GCSEs. As Yr 11 entry is mid way through the course, they don't usually accept new pupils then. However, pupils from abroad who have completed the academic study required in their home country won't be subject to this requirement, so no reason not to accept them for Yr 11. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletbean Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, valentina said: I don’t believe this view is always shared by overseas ballet students especially in Asian countries (many who have been homeschooled) who have their own ideas about academic education and ‘plan B’, and do not need to be stereotyped into our own version of what’s acceptable. I totally understand your comment but I was posting from a British students perspective. Therefore studying and training in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 09/02/2020 at 10:40, valentina said: Vocational schools usually look to take around 4/5 new students in year 10. 4 boys and 4 girls. I imagine this is something that varies widely from school to school. I don't think RBS are looking to take 4/5 new students in Y10 for example. On 09/02/2020 at 11:18, DancingWellies said: Not sure many other than Royal formally asses out at the end of year 9 anymore. Elmhurst doesn't. Do Elmhurst assess out at all? What's the current situation with assessing out at WL? There was talk a while ago about not assessing out in Y7 anymore. has that been implemented now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Foo Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, invisiblecircus said: I imagine this is something that varies widely from school to school. I don't think RBS are looking to take 4/5 new students in Y10 for example. Do Elmhurst assess out at all? What's the current situation with assessing out at WL? There was talk a while ago about not assessing out in Y7 anymore. has that been implemented now? This year there are 5 new students at WL year 10. Most years there are 3/4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motomum Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Elmhurst don’t assess out at all. 😍 WL from this year group now assess out from Y7. 🙁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance.Mum Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 09/02/2020 at 09:40, valentina said: Vocational schools usually look to take around 4/5 new students in year 10. 4 boys and 4 girls. Assessments in yr 9 ( where pupils are assessed out of the school) may mean that places become available. Or some pupils may voluntarily change schools at this point before GCSE’s. Sometimes the schools just want to increase the year group. This happens at Tring even though nobody is assessed out. From our own experience, the odd new pupil or 2 is being accepted all the way through the year groups even yr 11 and in any term. Maybe they are doing private auditions or come from wait lists or abroad, where they have experienced different education. Paying full fees will increase your chances but a couple of the schools will offer automatic funding for yr 10 anyway. Interesting that you say Tring do not assess out as this is accounted for in their policy on MDS awards. DC hasn't come across many dancers from Tring at intensives - non that they are in contact with anyway - so we don't have anything first hand about assessing out from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance.Mum Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) On 09/02/2020 at 10:12, Milzmam said: Which schools is your dd thinking of auditioning at? Already auditioned and have offers with finals so really just doing some homework to decide if we should go for it this year or will leave it until post 16. Edited February 11, 2020 by Dance.Mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance.Mum Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 09/02/2020 at 10:18, DancingWellies said: Not sure many other than Royal formally asses out at the end of year 9 anymore. Elmhurst doesn't. It is possible to get a place but competition is still fierce. I think many schools allow people will audition for year group except maybe 11. Whether there are funded places will depend on space for boarding, number leaving, quality of people auditioning. It will vary year to year for each school. 3 hours ago, invisiblecircus said: I imagine this is something that varies widely from school to school. I don't think RBS are looking to take 4/5 new students in Y10 for example. Do Elmhurst assess out at all? What's the current situation with assessing out at WL? There was talk a while ago about not assessing out in Y7 anymore. has that been implemented now? We have been given some insight into the vocational assessment at Elmhurst and were under the impression that their system for assessments was set-up such that if the required improvements were not made you could be asked to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milzmam Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, Dance.Mum said: Already auditioned and have offers with finals so really just doing some homework to decide if we should go for it this year or will leave it until post 16. My dd has offer for year 10 at Hammond, didn't audition anywhere else. Just waiting on funding audition now. Maybe see you there if your dd is Hammond aswell x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance.Mum Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 On 10/02/2020 at 10:15, balletbean said: I wouldn’t like to dampen anyones desire to pursuing their dreams but I do agree with not auditioning for yr11. Not just for the academic reasons as schools vary on their choice of examination boards which could have a detrimental effect on even the highest academic achiever receiving the grades they would have expected had they remained at their school. There’s also absolutely no guarantee of a place for US. That’s before the dreaded word ‘injury’ is even considered let along mentioned. Then what? We are all passionate about the world of dance but we can’t ignore that the rest of the business world incl acceptance at a University (even as a mature student) is based on academic qualifications incl 5 GCSE passes, 2 of which must be Maths & English. None of us know what’s around the corner. For us the academics has to be strong which is why we are undecided about possible entry this year. One of the things that I am still not clear about with is what GCSEs are always available and the number they are allowed to do. This also makes it difficult to assess the comparative successes of examination entrants. Each school will give their headline results in a way that pouts them in the best light. I have gone as far as looking at the entry requirements for university degrees that may be of interest further down the line and there are some who will look at the pass of certain GCSEs if you don't have the require subject at A level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance.Mum Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Motomum said: Elmhurst don’t assess out at all. 😍 WL from this year group now assess out from Y7. 🙁 Already commented on what we have heard from Elmhurst. I had read on here that WL had changed their policy, following heavy criticism, not to formally assess out at Year 7. However we personally know someone who did leave after a "conversation" so it has continued to happen. It sounds now like this is a formal policy again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance.Mum Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 Thank you all for taking the time to comment. This and the rest of the forum is most helpful as we decide what course of action to follow. As it is no doubt for all here, the decisions we as parents and guardians take and advice we give is so important for the future lives of our children academically, vocationally and for their overall physical and mental health. I am not sure how many plans we have now but they keep coming back to dance so onwards with my research and soul searching in the hope of making the right decision, for now anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Dance.Mum said: For us the academics has to be strong which is why we are undecided about possible entry this year. One of the things that I am still not clear about with is what GCSEs are always available and the number they are allowed to do. This also makes it difficult to assess the comparative successes of examination entrants. Each school will give their headline results in a way that pouts them in the best light. I have gone as far as looking at the entry requirements for university degrees that may be of interest further down the line and there are some who will look at the pass of certain GCSEs if you don't have the require subject at A level. I can only speak about Hammond but most students take 9 GCSE's (the same number that ds is taking at his state school and that dd would have taken if she had attended a selective private school. As with all schools the exact subject choice varies each year according to demand but English, English Lit, Maths and Double Science are compulsory. Students are then asked to list their four other preferences in order with a reserve choice and option blocks are devised from them. At least one out of French, history or Geography has to be taken in line with Progress 8. Other subjects on offer usually include Triple Science, French, History, Geography, RS, Drama, Music, Art & Design, Business Studies & Food & Nutrition. I looked at the option blocks at the selective school dd's friends attended that she would have gone to and she actually chose the exact same GCSE's at Hammond as she would have done there. Edited February 11, 2020 by Picturesinthefirelight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 And for comparison Tring's GCSE option blocks are here https://www.tringpark.com/curriculum/academic-curriculum/gcse-and-a-level-options 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance.Mum Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Picturesinthefirelight said: I can only speak about Hammond but most students take 9 GCSE's (the same number that ds is taking at his state school and that dd would have taken if she had attended a selective private school. As with all schools the exact subject choice varies each year according to demand but English, English Lit, Maths and Double Science are compulsory. Students are then asked to list their three other preferences in order with a reserve choice and option blocks are devised from them. At least one out of French, history or Geography has to be taken in line with Progress 8. Other subjects on offer usually include Triple Science, French, History, Geography, RS, Drama, Music, Art & Design, Business Studies & Food & Nutrition. I looked at the option blocks at the selective school dd's friends attended that she would have gone to and she actually chose the exact same GCSE's at Hammond as she would have done there. Thank you most helpful. I have also just found: Elmhurst which does not give as many options RBS option blocks, again with limited choice Tring option blocks which appear to change every few years so you may be lucky as there appears to be more of a variety YDA offer a BTech in addition to a list of GCSEs but it doesn't say if it an option or additional Someone has suggested Moorland to us as it has good academics and I see they have a wide range of courses available. I can see that to allow for a balance of academic and vocational work the number of GSCEs may have to be limited and I am not sure what, in the long run, the difference is between 8 or say 11, which is the number a number of friend's children are either studying or planning to study, will actually make. Outside the usual Maths, English, Sciences, and French are any of the others better for a dancer? I don't recall seeing Dance as an option which surprised me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance.Mum Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, Picturesinthefirelight said: And for comparison Tring's GCSE option blocks are here https://www.tringpark.com/curriculum/academic-curriculum/gcse-and-a-level-options Thank you, I found it as you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Generally a Dance gcse is deemed to be a waste of time at a vocational school as the level of dance practical study required is likely to be significantly lower than they are already doing day to day so better to use that option block in another choice. Often offered at A level though. When looking at total number of GCSE’s studied need to take into account whether it’s a double/triple or possibly single science award they are studying for. At say a very academic or typical grammar school then they may all do triple science so will typically in effect hope to achieve 10-11 GCSE’s, if it’s double this may reduce to 9-10, or single science could reduce it down to 8-9 GCSE’s at mainstream school. Vocational timetables may reduce this further but generally minimum ever would still be 7-8 It will depend on individual pupils, individual schools, can vary from year to year (for instance some schools or in some years it is insisted that a language is taken so this may in effect add 1 extra or reduce by one the option blocks for chosen subjects). Also SEN requirements/limitations may also play a part in individual’s total number of GCSE’s studied for/exams sat. Also bear in mind some schools now seem to commence actual GCSE study work in year 9 now (esp in Science, Maths & English) but others start only in year 10. This could impact on choices/course work completion etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) I have to say that taking 11 GCSE's under the reformed exams is absolute madness for any school/child. The selective school I mentioned that has a good track record of sending children to Oxbridge/Russell Group has only ever offered 9 (with a 10th for top set Further Maths only). I've got a lot of friends whose children are currently applying for university (including Oxbridge) and from the research they have done (one of them is a spreadsheet queen that rivals even Katymac) quality over quantity is emphasised. Only 8 GCSE's are required for even the most prestigious institutions. Some places such as Nottingham score your best 8, others look at your best 5. 24 minutes ago, Dance.Mum said: I don't recall seeing Dance as an option which surprised me. Again I can only speak for Hammond but, following the GCSE reforms they decided to no longer offer dance as an option for the following reasons (given in an email to parents). The children were already doing however many hours of dance a week and most already had dance qualifications that were of a much higher level than GCSE (which is Level 2 on the QCF equivalent to Grades 4/5). Many already had Level 3 & 4 qualifications (Inter F - Adv 1) and it was felt that it would be better to offer a broader range of academic options such as introducing the option to take Triple Science Edited February 11, 2020 by Picturesinthefirelight 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Peanut68 said: When looking at total number of GCSE’s studied need to take into account whether it’s a double/triple or possibly single science award they are studying for. At say a very academic or typical grammar school then they may all do triple science so will typically in effect hope to achieve 10-11 GCSE’s, if it’s double this may reduce to 9-10, or single science could reduce it down to 8-9 GCSE’s at mainstream school. It seems to be much more common at schools since the introduction of the new 9-1 GCSE's and the increased content for triple science to be offered as an actual option block rather than trying to squeeze it into the same amount of timetable time as double. Some schools are still persisting in only offering triple science to top sets and thus it becoming a 10th GCSE but many are offering it instead of. Single Science GCSE is now longer available. It is only available as an IGCSE and is generally only offered to very low ability students. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancingShoes Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I work at a selective grammar school and our students take 9 or 10 GCSEs depending on whether they do individual sciences or combined science. 11 would be a stretch even for the brightest children with the new exams. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Likewise - ditto 3 A levels is the new norm, even for the Oxbridge/Russell Group universities. A few take 4 but not many. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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