Artistic Directors (of schools)

[billythewhizz]

Just wanted to see what everyones experiences are with vocational artistic directors and their function in the school. My DC's experience at vocational is the AD being distant & unavailable from weekly classes or contact with the pupils, probably the AD attends maybe 1 or 2 classes a year and maybe 1 or 2 consultations a year. If you also consider artistic staff openly say that the AD does not communicate or listen to them, how can the AD make any form of guidance or overarching decision to your DC's development or on going participation at the school. Although I do see the AD role & time would be to reach out to organisations, governors or maybe auditions in far off places, all for the on going image of the school, surely the number 1 priority is the current pupils and their development. The AD bringing their rich, significant experience and knowledge to the school as part of the normal weekly class activity, to the school as a whole rather than for a select few and putting your own image/career progression behind that which is best for the school and each of its pupils....all pupils surely deserve this.

[capybara]

Well said, billythewhizz. I hope that certain vocational ADs are reading you.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Dd’s School does not have one. 

[Dancing unicorn]

No Pictures it doesn’t and it runs perfectly well without one!!

[Guest]

Yes but going to far off destinations is way more fun than bothering to watch students

[RosaMac]

51 minutes ago, Picturesinthefirelight said:

Dd’s School does not have one. 

Perhaps they should. I believe they would benefit from having someone who is closely connected to the industry, who would also be in overall control artistically. 

[Vonrothbart]

1 hour ago, RosaMac said:

Perhaps they should. I believe they would benefit from having someone who is closely connected to the industry, who would also be in overall control artistically. 

 

In an ideal world then maybe yes, but unfortunately some schools would rather poach the more talented children, then a little further down the line, take the glory as if they're one of their own.

[CeliB]

The AD at DSs school in the USA was completely involved in the day to day artistic decisions - oversaw classes frequently, was completely involved in the twice yearly performances, and from my memory had a face to face meeting to discuss progress with all the children at least once a year. Also was always available for a meeting with us every year when we went out to see the performance. When there was an AD at the school for a year or so who was less than ideal we very quickly sensed the school going off the rails- staff left or were sacked, their replacements weren't as good, the atmosphere just went down hill rapidly...

 

At the Vaganova the Rector (who I guess is the equivalent of an AD here) is pretty much omnipotent - he has started teaching the boys graduating classes, he casts and directs every performance, he is always available to meet the children if they want to discuss anything and he gives a lot of advice to the students about where they should apply for contracts. He has a very close working relationship with all his teachers and I get the impression he knows every aspect of every single child in the academy. Of course this level of involvement and control is not so good if he doesn't like you, but certainly all DS's year were absolutely blessed by his constant guidance and attention. I don't think the man sleeps- he does the work of 3 people! 

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I guess having three senior dance teachers rather than one overall AD does mean that no one has overall artistic control. 

 

Selfishly for my dd that has been a good thing as out of the three two seem to hold the most influence. One of the two doesn’t overly like/rate my dd (professionally not personally) but the other one does so I’m glad both get an input not just the one. 

[sarahw]

7 hours ago, Picturesinthefirelight said:

Dd’s School does not have one. 

Picures I think Hammond would benefit from an AD especially for the dancing. As long as they were involved of course! It would improve the overall planning of the dance training I think. 

 

Of course that's a personal opinion....

Edited March 25, 2018 by sarahw
Addition

[Anon2]

If they are rarely present, don’t know the majority of the children and don’t watch class unless there is a visitor in school I can’t really see the benefit of them. 

 

Celib’s son seems to have had very positive experiences whilst training abroad.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Jane
To add second paragraph

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I agree, they would benefit but it sounds like the ones at other schools don’t actually do very much whereas the senior staff at dd’s  school know all the year 10 & 11’s at least & I suspect they know many lower down the school too. 

[Dancing unicorn]

Exactly Pictures! 

The AD at dd’s previous school didn’t even know her name after 3 years of being there!! Every letter we received her name was wrong despite us saying or spelling her name correctly, and at their own Summer school he mixed her up with  someone else from her year! 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Dancing unicorn

[Picturesinthefirelight]

When Dd attended summer school there & he spoke at the end both me & dh thought the AD was very charismatic & we said this is what her school needs. 

 

But from hearing you speak it appears appearances can be deceptive. 

[Busymum]

At DD’s school the director of dance teaches the  year 7’s so that she gets to know the children. She also does teach other classes with the older years so knows all the children well. 

[Dancing unicorn]

Very much so Pictures! 

I’m sorry but 2 schools could not be so different!! And I’d rather her be where she is now! We feel like we lost 3 years. 

[dancefanatic]

I feel the AD at my DD’s school knows all the students, even though he does travel a bit too. I know when he is in school he often watches classes through the windows, is at all prelim auditions & finals, fills in teaching if a teacher is off ill, is st school performances etc. In fact my DD says he knew her name before she even became a student. I know this doesn’t means all other parents would agree with me but I think he does a good job and is trying to get the school’s name out there worldwide which can only help future graduates when looking for contracts if the school has a good reputation. 

[Moneypenny]

Unfortunately, getting a school’s name “out there” worldwide does not help graduates, especially if they get hardly any support in grad year. A school gets a good reputation by focusing on and supporting its grads to gain meaningful employment and having some decent grad destinations to shout about.

[dancefanatic]

Moneypenny I do agree but an AD forging connections with worldwide companies does, provided he/she also spends sufficient time within the school with all the students to ensure their training meets, if not exceeds, industry standards/requirements/etc, will help graduates as ADs from the companies will have a good knowledge of the school and the standard of its training.  I feel a good AD needs to do a bit of both, external promoting plus internal promoting/encouragement and so on.  An AD who is completely inwardly focused on a school and students with no industry connections is not serving his prospective graduates well.  Likewise an AD who is completely outward forcusing to the detriment of the school's students and graduates is not serving the school's best interests either.  An interesting conundrum really.  Glad I don't have to do it!

[Moneypenny]

I totally agree it’s a balance, I’m just speaking from some of my own observations.

[Anon2]

I wish my dd experience was as positive as Dancefanatics. The second AD in post during her time at vocational school spent a great deal of the year abroad, not making company contacts to help his graduates but looking for prospective students. I think he would be hard pressed to remember the destinations of more than a handful of his graduates from the past two years.  I felt his lack of presence on stage at the end of the last show of the year to wish the graduates and other leavers well summed up his poor management. 

 

In the five years my dd was at the school with him as AD he never took class. If a teacher was absent the ladies and men would have a joint class with the one teacher.  If an external choreographer or teacher was in then he would sit in class, always a good photo opportunity! And like the OP my dd was aware of the disquiet among the dance staff about the tensions between them and the AD. 

 

The first AD she experienced at the same school was the polar opposite; coming into class at least once a week, demonstrating steps, engaging with his students. It was a sad day when he retired 

[TBG]

2 hours ago, dancefanatic said:

I feel the AD at my DD’s school knows all the students, even though he does travel a bit too. I know when he is in school he often watches classes through the windows, is at all prelim auditions & finals, fills in teaching if a teacher is off ill, is st school performances etc. In fact my DD says he knew her name before she even became a student. I know this doesn’t means all other parents would agree with me but I think he does a good job and is trying to get the school’s name out there worldwide which can only help future graduates when looking for contracts if the school has a good reputation. 

 

Yes totally agree dancefanatic. He also meets with the children on a 1:1 following appraisals, and meets with parents in a group discussion forum at open days. In my limited knowledge and experience he is everything i think an AD should be and do.

 

Xx

[Ballet4Boyz]

Trying to work out which Artistic Directors you're all referring to & which schools they are associated with . 🤔🤔 Baffled but also a bit worried!!

No need to answer as realise that would be lacking in discretion & not permitted !! 😉  It is disappointing to hear however when you have a DS considering auditioning for one of these schools in the future. I had naively thought all AD's would be showing a lot of interest in their own students progression as well as helping them to make informed decisions about their future dance careers !!

[Harwel]

Fascinating the different experiences from one school - interesting the difference is very much lower school experience versus upper school experience - the shine wears off over time and the reality of the situation comes out.  The upper school experience is the sharp end, the reason for the lower school - getting a job after training.  If these students feel unsupported and left to their own devises everything becomes tainted.  I agree with a post above when I would assume (rightly or wrongly) the AD forging links abroad is about attracting foreign students to the school, preferably full paying ones! I don’t wish to be rude but not to see that is a little naive. AD has to answer to a board, has to balance the books and keep attracting students.  

 

At my DS school, head of dance knows every child has regular meetings with them especially upper school.  6th form students are employed (if they want)  at weekend courses, holiday courses and special dance days at a very good rate which gives them a part time job within the school and fabulous experience of admin, organising, assistant teaching.  My ds has been give permission to have a few days out of school to train as a Pilates teacher so he can earn money in between dance jobs.  It is a fully rounded training for life. 

[Flora]

On ‎26‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 07:32, Harwel said:

Fascinating the different experiences from one school - interesting the difference is very much lower school experience versus upper school experience - the shine wears off over time and the reality of the situation comes out.  The upper school experience is the sharp end, the reason for the lower school - getting a job after training.  If these students feel unsupported and left to their own devises everything becomes tainted.  I agree with a post above when I would assume (rightly or wrongly) the AD forging links abroad is about attracting foreign students to the school, preferably full paying ones! I don’t wish to be rude but not to see that is a little naive. AD has to answer to a board, has to balance the books and keep attracting students.  

 

At my DS school, head of dance knows every child has regular meetings with them especially upper school.  6th form students are employed (if they want)  at weekend courses, holiday courses and special dance days at a very good rate which gives them a part time job within the school and fabulous experience of admin, organising, assistant teaching.  My ds has been give permission to have a few days out of school to train as a Pilates teacher so he can earn money in between dance jobs.  It is a fully rounded training for life. 

Appreciate the commercial aspects for the ADs, but equally I can think of various strong UK students over the years- who would be full fee paying- turned away from the top schools at US and even sometimes lower. On the one hand you would think - they just don't have the talent and standards have to be maintained regardless of money- but some of these then went off to compete through YAGP etc suddenly to be courted where they were turned away before. An example of a dancer was given above I think offered in YAGP but not in school audition. I don't believe that experience is actually all that rare. It makes you wonder if sufficient interest is being paid to the UK students being turned out.