UCAS Tariff Points

[balletbean]

Dear All, 

 

Many of you may well know this but in case it has slipped your mind or never knew in the first place. 

 

When applying to a Conservatoire or University,  Dance exams, Grade 6 and above as well as Drama exams ie LAMDA all carry UCAS Tariff points.

 

These points will not replace the specific subjects required for some courses, however, once added up they will certainly increase a students overall UCAS Tariff point score. Which could be the deciding factor when being considered by the Higher Education providers.

 

The other point to consider is that some independent Bursaries offered by different Businesses and Trusts for "Higher Education (University) or similar (Vocational Schools & MT Colleges)" sometimes request that pupils have "A levels or the equivalent" when applying, the important word is Equivalent. Dance exams are exactly that.  That would enable a pupil who is 16 with only GCSE's can apply.

 

Well worth the research in your local area. If successful funds from a Bursary can certainly help towards the additional costs incurred  (i.e travel & Pointe Shoes). They are out there, just takes a bit of time to research and a stamp!

 

 

[meadowblythe]

 

I must confess, I would take "or equivalent" to refer to an academic rather than vocational equivalent to A levels - such as an IB (International Baccalaureate), Pre-U  or Extended BTec Diploma type qualification.

 

Most conservatoires only ask for 2 A levels at Grade E (assuming we are talking post 18 entry) so the points garnered from ballet or music exams aren't really going to help the tariff.  And I have heard of students with only 1 A level admitted to music college.  Obviously it's a different situation for universities, and dance students starting degrees that can be commenced at 16.

 

 If your ballet qualifications help you over a hurdle, or entitle you to bursary funding absolutely fantastic, go for it,  just advising a little caution on what is meant by equivalent qualifications.

[Nicola H]

A level or equivalent  means  level 3 in the (England and Wales  ) NQF  ( the SQF  includes the  the 'remedial'    levels  in it  where the  E+W calls them entry 1/2/3)

for those brought up on the old  qualification systems  NQF1 is the academic level of a CSE  grade 2 or below   / letter grade GCSE D-G  , NQF2 is O levle  / CSE 1  , GCSE  C or above , NQF 3  is A level / BTEC national .
 

[Pointetoes]

NonDD has been auditions and been offered 2 unconditional University offers to do Music Performance and 3 conditional. She took 2 A levels last summer and is taking 1 this year ( 3 yrs in 6th , I won’t go into that all I will say is it’s been a very tough time for her ) Because of various reasons her A level Music was no where near the grade she was predicated and not the grade most unversities she was applying to wanted, however with grade 8 on 2 instrumental and 2  levels she has over 120 UCAS  points which was why 2 universities gave her unconditional offers. She is off to her top choice Huddersfield with an unconditional offer. It’s an amazing situation to be in. 

 

My advice is put everything down, your highest dance and/drake and/or Music exams ( grade 6 and over) Those extra points add up and can make a difference in how a university makes their offer to you, especially on courses where you have to audition. 

[Kate_N]

As an academic who interviews applications for places in a performance-related degree at a Russell Group university** (and the experience of the other 2 Russell Group places I've worked at) can I add a note of caution? We don't really count all the Trinity/LAMDA stuff ... and certainly not the UCAS tariff points. We look at A2 Levels achieved or predicted, and the ability to reflect on and talk sensibly and reflectively about the candidate's experience of performing/learning about performance in school or extra-curricular activities. So speech exams with Trinity actually matter far less than their ability to collaborate with others. And so on. 

 

Apart from anything else, the ability to pass whatever grade in piano exams (for anything other than a BMus or BA in Music perhaps) tends to advantage the socio-economically advantaged, who can afford these things, but already have a head start.The Sutton Trust estimates that educational advantage linked to  socio-economic advantage starts at around age 3 (I think that's when the much-missed SureStart began for some children).

 

My department is committed to diversity and widening participation - we want the brightest raw material! If they've done RAD Inter, for example, and put it on a UCAS form, I may ask questions about how that fed into their studies of History - I'm not interested in "the magic of performance" - I want to hear about the habits of work and self-reflection that come from training. Because that's what they'll need in my department to thrive. We're tough (which is why we're in the world's top 100 in our discipline and one of the top 3 departments in the UK).

 

I think it may be different at post-92 universities, which have a different catchment pool and a different approach to teaching. But just thought it was worth letting you know from the point of view of a place with high expectations of UCAS applicants in terms of A Levels.

 

You might be interested in this blog from a professional Admissions administrator:

http://wonkhe.com/blogs/why-admissions-secrets-are-a-little-off-key/

 

 

** Although I've mostly worked at RG institutions, I take that grouping with a pinch of salt! Really, it signifies largeish universities which offer a research-intensive environment for undergraduates and lead the world in postgrad & postdoctoral research. THat's all - but they're generally really stimulating places for bright young people as we expect a lot of them AND ourselves!

[Kate_N]

On 22/01/2018 at 07:13, Pointetoes said:

She is off to her top choice Huddersfield with an unconditional offer. It’s an amazing situation to be in. 

 

My advice is put everything down, your highest dance and/drake and/or Music exams ( grade 6 and over) Those extra points add up and can make a difference in how a university makes their offer to you, especially on courses where you have to audition. 

 

Congrats on the Huddersfield place! I know from working with their Music Department in a national teaching organisation that they are one of the top places (if not the best) in the country for contemporary, electronic, experimental music, and music technology. Your DD's achievement in graded Music exams was highly relevant for her application. But I reiterate my warning that this may not always be so, and certainly not the case in my knowledge of Music at the University of Birmingham, for example, where the Grade 8 equivalent plus A levels at a certain level was required (although that was 3 years ago - it may have changed).

 

I'm not saying don't put these things on your UCAS form - just that the use/acknowledgement of them will vary from university to university. Just a heads up, really.

 

edited to add: sorry for the essays! Admissions is close to my heart ...

Edited January 23, 2018 by Kate_N

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Back when my husband applied for conservatoire in Birmingham they accepted Grade 8 practical AND theory in lieu of one A level but on the whole I agree.   There is no written academic content to dance grades so whilst it might indicate practical competence & be taken into consideration for some courses especially if the child attends a school where A Level dance, drama or music is not on offer it is the academic written content of an A Level or btec most institutions will be loailing for. 

[meadowblythe]

 

Ah conservatoire is my specialist subject.  You don't actually need a grade anything to apply to any music conservatoire, including Royal Academy, just be someone they want.  You don't need A level music, although in reality you may  struggle if you didn't have grade 8 theory as an alternative.  Most conservatoires "only" want 2 Es (Welsh asks for 2 Cs).  

 

Studying classical music seems to have a very similar path to ballet, but with even more practice thrown in.  Pity the poor pianists doing 8 hours per day, plus academics, or string players who have ensembles on top of that and then - oh, wait, I need A levels ..

 

And while I am completely off topic (sorry), having a daughter playing one of the instruments with the highest applicant to place ratios (3 solid days of auditions for 2 places at one) , I have said I finally understand what it feels like to be the mother of a DD rather than a DS!

[Pointetoes]

4 hours ago, Kate_N said:

 

Congrats on the Huddersfield place! I know from working with their Music Department in a national teaching organisation that they are one of the top places (if not the best) in the country for contemporary, electronic, experimental music, and music technology. Your DD's achievement in graded Music exams was highly relevant for her application. But I reiterate my warning that this may not always be so, and certainly not the case in my knowledge of Music at the University of Birmingham, for example, where the Grade 8 equivalent plus A levels at a certain level was required (although that was 3 years ago - it may have changed).

 

I'm not saying don't put these things on your UCAS form - just that the use/acknowledgement of them will vary from university to university. Just a heads up, really.

 

edited to add: sorry for the essays! Admissions is close to my heart ...

 I totally agree. She only put them on because they were relevant. It’s been a tough journey, University or Conservatorie but she has gone with her gut. 

[Pointetoes]

8 minutes ago, meadowblythe said:

 

Ah conservatoire is my specialist subject.  You don't actually need a grade anything to apply to any music conservatoire, including Royal Academy, just be someone they want.  You don't need A level music, although in reality you may  struggle if you didn't have grade 8 theory as an alternative.  Most conservatoires "only" want 2 Es (Welsh asks for 2 Cs).  

 

Studying classical music seems to have a very similar path to ballet, but with even more practice thrown in.  Pity the poor pianists doing 8 hours per day, plus academics, or string players who have ensembles on top of that and then - oh, wait, I need A levels ..

 

And while I am completely off topic (sorry), having a daughter playing one of the instruments with the highest applicant to place ratios (3 solid days of auditions for 2 places at one) , I have said I finally understand what it feels like to be the mother of a DD rather than a DS!

 Totally agree having one do Music and one dance, there really isn’t anything in it. Auditions are really tough for both of them, thankfully they are not both doing auditions at the same time......... on the plus side my music daughter plays a rare instrument so still tough but not as tough as your daughter. 

[balletbean]

On 21/01/2018 at 22:04, meadowblythe said:

 

I must confess, I would take "or equivalent" to refer to an academic rather than vocational equivalent to A levels - such as an IB (International Baccalaureate), Pre-U  or Extended BTec Diploma type qualification.

 

Most conservatoires only ask for 2 A levels at Grade E (assuming we are talking post 18 entry) so the points garnered from ballet or music exams aren't really going to help the tariff.  And I have heard of students with only 1 A level admitted to music college.  Obviously it's a different situation for universities, and dance students starting degrees that can be commenced at 16.

 

 If your ballet qualifications help you over a hurdle, or entitle you to bursary funding absolutely fantastic, go for it,  just advising a little caution on what is meant by equivalent qualifications.

I understand your concerns, but as the examinations are included in the drop down box on the UCAS website for Tariff Credits, it would be a shame to not include them on an application form if provision has been made for them. As they say, every little helps. 

 

This recent article by the Guardian Newspaper also makes for some interesting reading, right to the end. 

 

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fhigher-education-network%2F2018%2Fjan%2F19%2Fthe-secret-to-getting-in-to-a-top-university-piano-and-ballet-lessons&h=ATOL8-_oFwxGBkd8vzzNMZqYjqAMiVRVFDi9N6Sf1YdxlKJ_AoIh8YyR_gvpvD8sVhqfySvTY5PSSm_J1KEG0u_POxQPhebFtn6euxEmg7A70Y5KmR93Mph7EmeWF4LGJz-VIF5vf342yQ6K7jc89q_J9gINgraBvC0vq-5-cFA0sxTlkrbJS2o3t_r3PWnO0LuokGUibiKeHv62LMQ-a1bqDxOzbu5JLeM0SXjxjlBJewVNqOECrTURHjJ93BJgmNAPhKlW51_4-x05CJfPUqHot8xocpyNnyP3pN0M5TBsBb_ud1FgppcZ-vnSx3z4CIXRLzrNE96vu7yEdkp7JP4

[balletbean]

On 22/01/2018 at 07:13, Pointetoes said:

NonDD has been auditions and been offered 2 unconditional University offers to do Music Performance and 3 conditional. She took 2 A levels last summer and is taking 1 this year ( 3 yrs in 6th , I won’t go into that all I will say is it’s been a very tough time for her ) Because of various reasons her A level Music was no where near the grade she was predicated and not the grade most unversities she was applying to wanted, however with grade 8 on 2 instrumental and 2  levels she has over 120 UCAS  points which was why 2 universities gave her unconditional offers. She is off to her top choice Huddersfield with an unconditional offer. It’s an amazing situation to be in. 

 

My advice is put everything down, your highest dance and/drake and/or Music exams ( grade 6 and over) Those extra points add up and can make a difference in how a university makes their offer to you, especially on courses where you have to audition. 

Congratulations to your DD, fantastic result.  

 

My DD was automatically entered for a LAMDA Grade 6 exam as part of her GCSE course. That was another few tariff points to add to her dancing collection and ones that accidentally fell in her lap,  thanks to her Drama teacher. 

 

[Kate_N]

BalletBean, that's the article that the WonkHE blog is answering (and refuting, mostly). I think people need to read both - as I said, in widening participation terms, we tend to disregard "piano lesson" tariff points. We want the A Levels!

 

We also are only interested in extra-curricular stuff if it's relevant. so it really doesn't make a UCAS application more ikely to be succesful if you have a gold DoE award.

[Pointetoes]

NonDD was originally applying for something else, long story for another day, in that UCAS application she didn’t put in her music grade 8s because they were irrelevant to the subject, she did include other relevant information in her personal statement. That application was stopped and you know the rest of the story. 

So I totally agree they need to be relevant to the subject they are applying for - Advanced 1 Ballet isn’t much use or of interest if the individual is applying for Law etc 

[Pups_mum]

24 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

 

We also are only interested in extra-curricular stuff if it's relevant. so it really doesn't make a UCAS application more ikely to be succesful if you have a gold DoE award.

That's interesting Kate, as schools seem to push the need for a "rounded" student - or at least the ones in my locality do. Back in my youth I got myself onto one of the most competitive courses at a "good" university by virtue of nothing more than academic results. I didn't even have any hobbies to speak of really. Nowadays, the pupils at my children's school who want to follow the same path are still expected to have a basket full of top grades but also seem to need to represent the county at multiple sports, play grade 8 piano pieces whilst blindfolded and have several thousand hours of voluntary work under their belts. Or at least they think they do....I wonder where this concept has come from if it's not true? I have witnessed a number of very able young people of my acquaintance working ridiculously hard to excel at multiple things in order to bolster their university applications - with very negative effects in some cases unfortunately. If they don't need to I wish someone would tell them.

[Fiz]

I understand what you mean but universities are always saying that they want fully rounded applicants so what better way to show them this?

 

[Fiz]

Cross posted, Pups_Mum.

[aileen]

I'm no expert but my understanding is that for the vast majority of courses the more highly ranked universities are primarily interested in grades (achieved or predicted) plus a demonstrable interest in the course. Extra-curricular activities are given little weight (a) because they are not relevant and (b) because they put disadvantaged students at a disadvantage. There are certain exceptions to this, particularly in the case of medicine and other more vocationally orientated courses. I believe that admissions tutors do want to see more rounded applicants for medical degrees and that some work experience in a medical field plus extra-curricular activities are important. If it's a choice between academic work and extra-curricular activities then the former should be prioritised. If you aren't predicted the necessary grades or don't achieve the grades which have been asked for you may not get a place. Even with the lifting of the cap I've known of applicants losing their places because they dropped more than one grade and their first choice university refused to accept them.

[2dancersmum]

DD2 is currently sitting on 5 offers for university . She completed all her UCAS applications including all her relevant dance results as well. She has not applied for a degree that relates to performing arts - but more science based. She was advised to talk about dance in her personal statement but that she had to relate it to her A levels, proposed degree or life skills it has taught her.  The universities are not particularly top universities according to league tables - but more in the top 30-60 range. Only 2 of them are willing to accept points from other qualifications - one has a limit of 12 points and the other has specifically excluded dance qualifications - it came as a written note with the BBB offer.

[Fiz]

None of my dd’s drama or dance points were included at all. The universities she applied to declined to use them even though she was was applying to do drama as a performing art. Crazy!

[Mummy twinkle toes]

Part of my role is to assess applications for health courses including nursing and paramedic science. Unfortunately, we do not accept dance or music points. I think it is because many people outside of dance/music do not understand them or the work that goes into them. I do try and take it into consideration when assessing the overall but officially it is the A levels that count. It is a shame really because to get to grade 8 in either genre you need commitment and maturity.

[Nicola H]

I think part of it is the percieved prestige of a  HEI offering  offers which are phrased in  p points in named subject  X, q points in  named subject Y   ... 

in the old 1990s UCAS points  ( where  A at a level  was 10 points  and  E  2 points  so  offers  for university  ranged from  4 to 30  points)   some HEIs  used to state that the General  Studies  A levle could only count for 2 points  ... the   now Ruseell Group  / red brick   and the 1960s  foundations  tended to  state letter grades in named subjects  where the   ex-polys  made offers in points ... 

 

[MAK]

Very interesting topic, especially on the subject of whether a range additional activities need to be demonstrated alongside academic qualifications in order to increase the chances of an offer. The experts in this thread seem to agree that this is not the case so is there a disconnect between the expectations of the HEIs and the perceptions of the schools? Many years ago I was privileged to be accepted into an extremely academic university where I enjoyed four years' of high intensity study and left with a good degree that has no doubt opened doors for me in later life. This university was able to pick and choose at will as it was so oversubscribed with very highly qualified students (one of my peers achieved 8 A Grades at A level in one sitting!). However, they also turned away many, many highly academic applicants. They were interested in the "whole" individual and on what else he/she could bring and contribute to university life. I also think they were making an assessment on how well the person might settle in and benefit from a university education in general, as well as the requirements of the specific course.

Anyway, I digress. Good luck to everyone whose DCs are currently in this process. Hopefully having dance, or music or DofE or sport to focus on will help them get a break now and again from the stress of A Levels even if the exam points are not taken into account 😊

 

[Legseleven]

It is the ability to understand how to explain the ways that ballet, music, sport, community involvement, youth leadership - whatever the interest/passion/commitment may be - have helped which can be important as far as I can see. Being able to discuss how one has developed tenacity, time-management skills, teamwork, self-discipline etc as a result of extracurricular activities may well make a difference. It  certainly did in the case of one of DD’s dance teacher’s students who applied to read medicine at a prestigious university; the admissions panel stated that her clear explanation of the benefits of studying ballet at RAD Advanced level had propelled her straight to the top of their list of provisional acceptances. Yes, she had excellent academics but it was the discussion about the benefits of continuing with high level ballet with a universally recognised exam board which had made her stand out. 

[aileen]

The other thing is that some universities and courses have additional exams which applicants take as part of the application process. This applies not just to Oxbridge but also to applicants for Medicine, and applicants for Maths at the higher ranked universities. In some cases the exam acts as sifting mechanism in deciding who to interview; in others a particular score is required as part of the offer either in addition to, or as an alternative to, A Level grades. So what I'm saying is that academic achievement - both in terms of A Level grades and in terms of scores achieved in the BMAT, HAT and similar - is actually more important than ever in the case of certain over-subscribed courses and courses at over-subscribed universities. Extra-curricular activities are all very well but they will not 'compensate' for lacklustre scores in these entrance exams or so-called aptitude tests or mediocre A Level grades.

[Anna C]

10 hours ago, Nicola H said:

I think part of it is the percieved prestige of a  HEI offering  offers which are phrased in  p points in named subject  X, q points in  named subject Y   ... 

in the old 1990s UCAS points  ( where  A at a level  was 10 points  and  E  2 points  so  offers  for university  ranged from  4 to 30  points)   some HEIs  used to state that the General  Studies  A levle could only count for 2 points  ... the   now Ruseell Group  / red brick   and the 1960s  foundations  tended to  state letter grades in named subjects  where the   ex-polys  made offers in points ... 

 

 

Yes, exactly.  RG Uni (and I assume post 92 unis) offers for students who are taking A Levels this year come as "AAB", "ABB" now, i.e. graded A Levels (or total International Baccalaureate points) as opposed to total UCAS points.  To take your offered place, you have to get those grades at A Level.

 

That doesn't mean that Advanced Ballet, Grade 8 Music etc are irrelevant or unimportant though - as others have said, those "well rounded" students who have committed to a "hobby" for so long and achieve Grade 8 Music and/or Adv 1 or 2 Ballet definitely seem to bring to the table other life skills than pure academics.  So while these days I wouldn't do exams for the UCAS points, the drive, determination and commitment needed do seem to be beneficial when added to good predicted grades. 

[Kate_N]

1 hour ago, MAK said:

The experts in this thread seem to agree that this is not the case so is there a disconnect between the expectations of the HEIs and the perceptions of the schools?

 

In short, probably yes. But the short answer is not the most useful! It depends which schools/which universities. There's also a general middle-class expectation that children will do all sorts of life-enriching activities, that will feed their development as people. And that is true - but given the middle-class advantage in so many areas, it can't be something we take into too much consideration in admissions to university.

 

My course requires AAB as a ball-park level of achievement, and for some variations (Combined Hons with other in demand subjects) AAA. That's the level we teach at - we demand & expect a lot of our undergrads (which the secondary school system increasingly doesn't/can't prepare them for, unfortunately). So it behoves us to ensure that they are as equipped as possible to thrive in our programme - and achievement at GCSE and A Level are still the best markers for the likelihood of thriving in our degree.

 

And by 'thriving' I really don't mean high marks - I mean "getting" the requirement for independent thinking and development towards autonomous learning.

[meadowblythe]

1 hour ago, Legseleven said:

It is the ability to understand how to explain the ways that ballet, music, sport, community involvement, youth leadership - whatever the interest/passion/commitment may be - have helped which can be important as far as I can see. Being able to discuss how one has developed tenacity, time-management skills, teamwork, self-discipline etc as a result of extracurricular activities may well make a difference. It  certainly did in the case of one of DD’s dance teacher’s students who applied to read medicine at a prestigious university; the admissions panel stated that her clear explanation of the benefits of studying ballet at RAD Advanced level had propelled her straight to the top of their list of provisional acceptances. Yes, she had excellent academics but it was the discussion about the benefits of continuing with high level ballet with a universally recognised exam board which had made her stand out. 

 

From experience in a school I think this is spot on.   I remember pointing out to one student that perhaps she should mention that she competed in athletics at national level, the time management and perseverance this had shown, she was so focused on making her experiences directly relevant to the field she was applying to she thought she should omit this.  Students who can support excellent exam results with individuality and evidence of personal skills developed in a wider setting seem to have the best chance of getting the offers they seek, although it will never be an exact science.   Others will comment with more knowledge than me, but there seems to be a trend to making personal statements very formulaic - at another school I know the students have to mention three books they have read.

 

Of course as a librarian I have just invited Year 12 into the library for a catch up, and to suggest now is an excellent time to start on your wider reading to support your UCAS application!

 

[Pups_mum]

I don't think anyone would dispute that extra curricular activities are in general terms good and do contribute to the development of a more rounded person. But the problem arises when they stop being enjoyable activities and become another pressure. Sadly I have seen quite a lot of my children's friends fall out of love with their hobbies and some even become ill as they felt that they must excel in every area of their lives in order to meet their goals. It's not enough to enjoy playing a musical instrument or a sport, you have to excel in the exams and make at least the school and preferably the county first team. Enjoying rambling in the countryside with your family doesn't "count" but a DofE expedition does....and so on.

It seems to be an ill of our time, certainly amongst the middle classes. Children are under such pressure now, and, in my opinion, often ridiculously over scheduled with numerous "enrichment activities" even from babyhood. I was stunned recently when I saw an acquaintance on social media singing the praises of the latest class she has enrolled her 5 Year old in....Yoga and Mindfulness. For infant school children. A great way for them to learn to relax apparently. I wanted to suggest that jumping in puddles, being left alone with a glue stick and a few empty egg boxes or even, shock, horror, lying on the sofa watching a film might also achieve that, but I thought better of it.

It's really hard to resist this trend though when it's all around us. My own childhood was a lot simpler, and I don't think that was a bad thing. I wish more children were being encouraged to try things just for enjoyment rather than to "achieve".

[aileen]

Yes, it has become that way. The ambitious middle classes are very strategic when it comes to their children's applications for university. It's quite noticeable how some sixth formers give up their activities once their applications are in or they have received their offers.

[Huddsballetmum]

19 hours ago, Pointetoes said:

NonDD was originally applying for something else, long story for another day, in that UCAS application she didn’t put in her music grade 8s because they were irrelevant to the subject, she did include other relevant information in her personal statement. That application was stopped and you know the rest of the story. 

So I totally agree they need to be relevant to the subject they are applying for - Advanced 1 Ballet isn’t much use or of interest if the individual is applying for Law etc 

Got to say I disagree with the statement that Advanced Ballet isn't much use when applying for Law.  My DD has danced for 15 years and has applied to do Law at a number of Russell Group universities.  As part of her personal statement she referenced dance and drama as it shows the following skills, teamwork, dedication and commitment, penchant for hard work ( difficult to keep up three A levels and 15 hours of dance per week), creativity and performance.  All of which are skills required for a competent solicitor or barrister.  She has offers at all 5 universities.  The courses might not be directly relevant but the skills most definitely are and as a 17 year old it is often hard for them to demonstrate life skills in other ways.

[balletbean]

On 24/01/2018 at 13:38, Huddsballetmum said:

Got to say I disagree with the statement that Advanced Ballet isn't much use when applying for Law.  My DD has danced for 15 years and has applied to do Law at a number of Russell Group universities.  As part of her personal statement she referenced dance and drama as it shows the following skills, teamwork, dedication and commitment, penchant for hard work ( difficult to keep up three A levels and 15 hours of dance per week), creativity and performance.  All of which are skills required for a competent solicitor or barrister.  She has offers at all 5 universities.  The courses might not be directly relevant but the skills most definitely are and as a 17 year old it is often hard for them to demonstrate life skills in other ways.

Congratulations to your DD. A similar situation was recently reported. A professional Ballerina (8yrs) applied for Medical School. Part of the reason for the successful application was that the interview board recognised the dedication, focus, seeking perfection, long hours and stamina required for a professional dancing career were skills required for Medical students. Had she kept her then current career and qualifications quiet they may well not have accepted her, as her academic grades whilst matching the entry requirements were not outstanding when comparing to other applicants. 

[Kate_N]

I would still advise caution. The thing is, that the required results in terms of letter grades must be there.

 

Other aspects of an applicant's life and abilities may help make them stand out from other applicants with the same results, but without the required grades, those other skills/activities will not make up for the lack of required grades, for in-demand courses at elite universities.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Kate_N