Importance of pianist in an exam

[thewinelake]

DD did her Advanced Foundation exam today. Apparently the pianist made life rather hard, with a slow adage and quite a few errors in the playing. I wonder why they don't just use a recording? Is it exactly so the examiner can see how well the dancer can cope with the unexpected?!

[taxi4ballet]

I seem to recall that during one of DD's exams, the examiner asked the pianist to repeat an exercise at a different speed.  DD has often mentioned that the pianist plays slightly differently to the recorded music - which could be disconcerting if you're not used to live accompaniment. Mind you, presumably at Advanced level they expect you to be able to cope with that. The examiners will be used to all sorts of pianists, and if one is having a particularly off day, then I doubt it would affect the marking of the candidates. 

 

(Although on one occasion at RAD HQ she was convinced that the pianist was the same one as on the recording, as she said it was identical in every way!)

 

 

[Legseleven]

DD had a pianist for IF who played agonisingly slowly for the adage and then ridiculously quickly for the already foul allegro number 2. The teachers and parents waiting were horrified. She felt it put her off considerably - and that was reflected in the mark sheet from those exercises onwards. 

 

I do think that examiners should stop a pianist who is manifestly playing at the wrong speed and give the correct tempo. Exams are expensive and candidates shouldn't be penalised by rogue piano playing. Not sure how they could best deal with pianists playing badly, though - other than by reporting incompetence to the RAD.  

[Bluebird22]

I took inter foundation BBO and my examiner stopped the pianist with a very sharp "really?" after the sauté exercise which was then repeated, the adage was slow but the sauté was impossibly slow and I think the examiner was fed up. Years later as a teacher I realised the examiner in question was very fond on finding ways to pass candidates rather than ways to fail them

[Guest]

I know of someone who won an appeal (and a free re-sit) against an IF exam result where the pianist had made a total mess of the exercises. A very traumatic experience for a 12 year old though. Recorded music may be less glam but its more reliable.

[Jan McNulty]

Not about exams but it strikes me that students who graduate into companies will have to get used to a variety of tempi when dancing the same piece.  As a member of the audience I have noticed that several conductors in the same company can pace the music differently.  Of course, that does not excuse a pianist in an exam making a mess of tempi. 

[Nicola H]

having had the  luxury of a  real  pianist  at The Ballet Retreat  , a good pianist is better than  any  recording .... 

great  in the rep sessions for the  teacher to be able to say ' we 'll do it  with the music but  a bit slower than  written '   and  while you can do  changed pace / music for  classexercises  if you have enough of a library on your media player of choice , a live pianist  can do that  instantaneously 

[sarahw]

Surely there should be a practice session with the pianist if not usually used?

[Legseleven]

DD always had a couple of practice sessions with the pianist for the graded exams taken at her own studio, but not for vocational exams. 

[sarahw]

Of course.😐

[Pointetoes]

Both schools DD she has been at have had pianist. It is a luxury and she knows she is very lucky. He doesn't do all her classes so she is able to switch between live music and a recording which all her teachers have said is a good thing to be able to do, in other words they need to be able to switch from tempo to tempo without thinking about it. 

I can see the argument for a cd in all exams but you can say the same for music exams - in DD's grade 8 Cello the accompanist  who was her schools director of music, had to play one piece v differently to the way he had played it for another girl because DD had interpreted it her way - they both got the same marks. They were able to put their stamp on it which wouldn't have happened if the accompanying music was on cd. 

[hfbrew]

Serious errors by a pianist should be reported but an examiner would make allowances for this anyway.

 

All vocational students however should be able to cope with whatever the pianist produces as this indeed is showing the level of musicality,sensitivity and response of the candidate. The trouble with always dancing to the same recording means that the dancer may well stop actually really responding to the music.

 

If a candidate responds well to variants in the music then this will be reflected in the marks.

 

Dancers who are going to make it all the way to dancing professionally with live orchestras must be musical!

[Legseleven]

That's exactly what I said to DD when she came out of her IF exam upset, hfbrew! She actually laughed because she said it was also a struggle to stay in time with the pianist for the adage because one of the girls was clearly determined to dance at the speed at which it should have been played rather than the speed at which it was being played, which made it difficult for those dancing with the music as they could see her doing her own thing  

 

I do think, though, that it was so very slow that the examiner could and should have stopped it and given the correct tempo to the pianist. This is the first vocational exam with candidates aged 11 and quite honestly the exam fees should guarantee them a pianist who is not completely disregarding the correct tempi! A little faster or slower, yes - but this was like a funeral dirge. 

[RuthE]

As a singer I can really sympathise with this. I remember having an awful accompanist for my Grade 8 Singing when I was a teenager - the candidate supplies the accompanist, so there should be no problem, but my usual accompanist wasn't available and the substitute was fine in rehearsal and then made a catalogue of really bad mistakes in my exam. I thought I'd failed! Turns out she'd "just" possibly cost me a distinction, by two marks...

[thewinelake]

Yes, a professional violinist friend says that he lost out on a position in an orchestra thanks to a poor accompanist. He now takes his own with him - has anyone here done that for a ballet exam? ;-)

[hfbrew]

My students have the pianists that normally accompany them in class for their RAD exams. If they have to attend an exam at another venue I arrange for the pianist to play and this is what teachers had to do before the RAD permitted recorded music. 

 

However for vocational exams at a regional centre the candidates are unlikely to have previously met the pianist. Candidates are often examined with students from other schools so it is fairer if none of them are familiar with the pianist!

[Anon2]

The examiner will know the music inside out and if she was unhappy would surely have asked the pianist to change tempo. 

 

Dd took an exam at headquaters and there was so much noise outside the room, building work I believe, the examiner stopped the exam and went to complain as no one could hear the piano clearly. 

 

 

[Lily_883]

When I sat my Intermediate last year, we only had one practice with the pianist before the exam, after months of only using the CD. On the day of the exam, the tempo for one of the barre exercises was so slow I wondered if I had accidentally switched to half counts due to nerves! And it's not just the tempo that can differ; there was definitely some legato where I expected more staccato on some of the exercises, which is hard to adapt to. The pianist later mentioned that she had never listened to the CD. I was surprised to hear this at the time, but maybe that's normal practice? I guess if you're an experienced musician, you wouldn't expect to need more than the sheet music?

[MAK]

Just asked DD1 who had her IF today and she said: "oh he made a couple of mistakes, especially Adage". I thought she was going to say "it was fine"! Don't think it was too serious though 😂

[Cara in NZ]

16 hours ago, hfbrew said:

Serious errors by a pianist should be reported but an examiner would make allowances for this anyway.

 

All vocational students however should be able to cope with whatever the pianist produces as this indeed is showing the level of musicality,sensitivity and response of the candidate. The trouble with always dancing to the same recording means that the dancer may well stop actually really responding to the music.

 

If a candidate responds well to variants in the music then this will be reflected in the marks.

 

Dancers who are going to make it all the way to dancing professionally with live orchestras must be musical!

 

I do agree with this in theory, but in DD's Intermediate exam last year she said the pianist played the pliés far too fast. It's difficult to execute a plié with musicality if you have to do them fast!

[Guest]

Looking at this problem from the other angle, requirements to be an exam pianist do not appear to be that onerous. Most exam boards specify ARBSM Grade 8 plus performing experience. The RAD website states that previous experience playing for ballet is 'desirable'. The RAD website also states that pianists should:

 

• Get to know the syllabus thoroughly – exams run like a performance with minimal direction from the examiner. Teachers should give you at least one rehearsal with students. 
• The fewer opportunities you have for rehearsal, the more you should acquaint yourself with the tempo and settings for the exam by listening to the official recordings and watching the syllabus DVDs

In other words, although learning to dance with live music is a key part of a dancers' training, this is not at all the same thing as having to put up with a totally unprepared pianist who is not familiar with the pieces and who certainly should not be casually sight reading them.

 

I hear that there is a week long course in London starting tomorrow called 'Dancing Piano' specifically to teach pianists how to play music for ballet classes. It claims to be the only course like it in the world. Lets hope its a big success.

[Viv]

I quite enjoy doing the syllabus to live piano. My teacher arranges 'live music' rehearsals a month before the exam with the pianist we'll use on exam days. It's a great day, not only does the candidate get to experience dancing to live music but the pianist works with the dancer to make them look their best. I remember last year adjusting one of the grade 5 exercises to be slower for a group of very tall girls than it was for the much shorter girls. Having more time meant the tall girls could gather all their limbs and extend them beautifully...It was wonderful! And I think a wonderful experience to learn how the dancer works with the musician to together create something special. And I think it makes the exams feel kind of nice and important if you don't normally get to dance with live music.

 

Unfortunately, the piano at my studio is...well, crap. I feel sorry for the accompanist because you can see her physically wincing when she tries to play and the keys don't strike or the tuning is out. It's quite punishing to dance to at times and can throw you off but I'm sure the examiner takes that into account. We can't afford a new piano so I guess we must muddle through! 

[thewinelake]

I'd have thought many pianists would bring their own electric keyboard with them...

[Nicola H]

5 hours ago, thewinelake said:

I'd have thought many pianists would bring their own electric keyboard with them...

 Is that what they are being paid for ?

 

While i fully understand the stance MU has with regard to gigs or commercial work, their rate card  puts live accompanists in class out of reach for the majority of dancers, meaning it's a special treat , for exams or for intensives ( where the MU weekly rate is paid to the accompanist)

[hfbrew]

20 hours ago, thewinelake said:

I'd have thought many pianists would bring their own electric keyboard with them...

There is no way a keyboard would fit into one of my pianists car! I provide an electric one at the venues that need it.

 

For me personally to provide the best for my students a pianist is a necessity not a luxury. And I still make a living, just not as much as most! Luckily I have no desire for designer handbags or shoes..

 

But I have to say that I live an area from which it's easier to recruit pianists (I employ 5 on a daily basis) but this is extremely difficult for many teachers in other parts of the country/world. Fortunately there is a lot of excellent recorded music available.

[Ellie]

20 hours ago, thewinelake said:

I'd have thought many pianists would bring their own electric keyboard with them...

No,really no. In my experience good pianists capable of playing for ballet class or exams are very few and far between and the pay is not great, so why should they have to lug around and risk potential damage to an expensive piece of equipment ? Teachers in my area buy or rent a piano or keyboard for exams or classes.

 

46 minutes ago, hfbrew said:

There is no way a keyboard would fit into one of my pianists car! I provide an electric one at the venues that need it.

 

For me personally to provide the best for my students a pianist is a necessity not a luxury. And I still make a living, just not as much as most! Luckily I have no desire for designer handbags or shoes..

 

But I have to say that I live an area from which it's easier to recruit pianists (I employ 5 on a daily basis) but this is extremely difficult for many teachers in other parts of the country/world. Fortunately there is a lot of excellent recorded music available.

 That's great news hbrew, In my experience (unfortunately) most ballet teachers have to use recorded music for class as they can't cover their costs and pay for a pianist. Getting back to  the question of the RAD recorded music,personally I find it too fast. (Am happy for other teacher's input on this )

[Nicola H]

On 9/9/2017 at 19:49, Ellie said:

No,really no. In my experience good pianists capable of playing for ballet class or exams are very few and far between and the pay is not great, so why should they have to lug around and risk potential damage to an expensive piece of equipment ? Teachers in my area buy or rent a piano or keyboard for exams or classes.

 

 even at MU rates  it's not that much , for them to bring their own equipment  and all full size keyboard instruments are MU  Band D  Individual arrangement  porterage fees  for any solo player  ...  an 'electric piano '  is  niether  light or  especially  portable   with a full sized keyboard ... 

[hfbrew]

4 hours ago, mph said:

 even at MU rates  it's not that much , for them to bring their own equipment  and all full size keyboard instruments are MU  Band D  Individual arrangement  porterage fees  for any solo player  ...  an 'electric piano '  is  niether  light or  especially  portable   with a full sized keyboard ... 

Too right, I can only just about carry mine from it's cupboard to the car!

[thewinelake]

Mmmm. Well, DD's teacher used to have a pianist (by curious coincidence, it was the same one that played for the exam in the OP) and I really don't think she'd have had the wherewithall to buy her own piano, but maybe she did. However, I'm in full agreement that it's a luxury - and if you can afford it/have pianists in the area prepared to do it (I think some don't charge MU rates if they're just learning) then lucky students! So you ideally need not only a good pianist, but a strong one ;-)

[taxi4ballet]

Gone are the days when every village hall and community centre had a (albeit probably fairly knackered and in need of tuning) piano supplied as standard. Such a shame.