Ballet school ranking?

[Dancersdad]

To be honest most people in the "outside world" only know about RBS because of Billy Elliot and a lot of young dancer's parents are in exactly the same boat when the possibility of vocational schools first gets thought of.

 

As a current Tring parent I am more than happy to see Tring ranked last by those brave enough to put their heads above the parapet. Goes back to my first post about happy parents and level of care. Thank goodness our Tring "experience" ends in 18 days time.

[hfbrew]

Sadly, there are lots of parents who feel the same way about other ballet schools. I know several who are very disillusioned with Elmhurst and more to have good cause to have concerns about RBS.

 

And I also know many, many people who love these places, including Tring. Everyones experiences and perceptions are different. So whilst this question was about rankings it just goes to show that you really shouldn't set too much store by them. Don't automatically assume that RBS is the best place to train for you because its apparently "the top". Likewise don't be put off by others bad experiences, as you wont necessarily have them. If you do, do as I did and address the people concerned.

 

And anyone who is really unhappy should look elsewhere as has been discussed on another thread.

[KathyG]

We would also rank Tring low, when we auditioned for year 7 we were welcomed with open arms, when we auditioned for year 10 the attitude towards us was so off hand we didn't bother trying for 6 form.

 

I do agree though everyone will have their own experiences of each of the schools both positive and negative. Though once in a school it isn't always easy to change schools due to funding.

[taxi4ballet]

I have a feeling that Tring is really trying to up it's game with regard to ballet training, as evidenced by their introduction of the Classical Ballet Academy.

[Pas de Quatre]

As a recent ex-Tring parent I know more people who were unhappy there, than were happy. In 6th form people voted with their feet. As discussed on a previous thread not that many stayed for the 3rd year, the majority left at the end of 2nd year. Some 3rd years have found employment - congratulations to them - but others in 3rd year have simply dropped out during the year, leaving a mere handful of 3rd years now.

[porthesia]

As parent of an ex Conservatoire pupil at Tring I can say our experience was not good - we were led to believe the Conservatoire was the same as Associates and were so thrilled when DD auditioned and was awarded a place. Having said that, I am really hoping their new Classical Ballet course will be a success.

Edited June 27, 2012 by porthesia

[taxi4ballet]

My list is based on the fact that st some schools entry is dependent on ability to pay as well as talent.

 

I would say

 

1 RBS

2 Elmhurst

3 Hammond

4 Tring

 

True, but some schools have far more MDS places to be awarded than others.

[KathyG]

So the government have ranked them by the number of MDS places they have allocated each school.

1. RBS

2. Elmhurst

3 & 4 Tring and Hammond sorry not sure how many nowadays they get since you can't see the annual report to know which is 3 and which is 4.

[Tulip]

I have to agree, the dance teachers are excellent at Tring but unfortunately the director of dance does not listen to her team. The children are dis-heartened as there appears to be no reward or praise (unless you are the chosen few) and at the last parents evening it was clear to me and other parent we spoke to that the dance teachers do not agree with their director of dance in many many situations. (infact it was uncomfortabel when one teacher rolled her eyes and shookl her head). I would NOT rank Tring at the bottom though as the classical training has been very, very good. However to get my daughter where she needed to be, we did have to have some one to one private lessons outside the school. You can have a private lesson whithin the school by an ex dance student, but again only if permission is granted by Rachel Rist and we were not going to wait to be told a NO once again.

[Anon2]

Like some others I have been worried by this thread as regardless of 'ranking' what suits one child/family will not others. A good school/training is what will bring the best out in each child. Constant negative comments from what is considered one of the top schools may well destroy a child, while positive feedback from another will bring their potential to the forefront equipping them to achieve.

 

I have no experience of Tring but all the negative comments make me feel uncomfortable. I am particularly aware of how the parents must feel that have children due to start there in September. They must have been feeling a mix of excitement and nerves before reading any of this but now must be feeling very anxious.

[taxi4ballet]

Well said, Jane.

 

We chose our dd's academic secondary school because she fell in love with it at the open evening and it is 5 minutes' walk away, not because of it's reputation.

 

Everyone's experience of school will be different. My husband and his brother both went to the same grammar school. My brother-in-law loved it and thrived, my hubby hated every minute.

 

In my opinion, the most important factor is the child's happiness. If they are unhappy at school, they will not succeed.

[Tulip]

For all the children starting Tring is September, the dance teachers who do the training are lovely and are very good. The grounds that the school is in are breathtaking and the accademic side of the school is excellent. The teachers apart from one are absolutely lovely and caring.

[Dancersdad]

Jane, I quite agree with you, but remember that those comments about Tring come from people who have sent their children there. Goes back to the happy parents importance of chosing a school.

 

Make no mistake the happy "family" attitude that exists between the pupils at Tring is not seen in many other places and really makes the school a special place to be where pupils realise while still at school that school days are the best days of your life. Too many of us never realise that until it is too late to enjoy them. DS believes the quality of the training is outstanding and I agree.

 

However, the complaints that have been made here seem to be directed at management and even at the division between management and staff. My personal experience of not only vocational schools, but of many private and public sector schools is the quality of the management team dictates just how good the school actually is.

 

My advice to parents going to Tring in September is to stay involved in your child's training and as soon as any concerns arise bring them up immediately with the relevant people at the school. Don't ever feel you have to stay quiet if you are unhappy because you are just pleased your child has a place at the school. Considering our Tring "experience" I can vouch they will not throw your child out because you are unhappy.

 

HFBrew, sometimes, like we were, you get stuck financially at a school. Remember a DaDA is not transferable so if you are unhappy you can get faced with sticking it out or stopping vocational training altogether because you cannot afford to go elsewhere. Also the schools are quick to point out their term's notice period and having to pay the full fees for it if even it is not attended, but they neglect to tell you that DaDA specifically bars them from claiming notice fees.

[dancedizzy]

Classical training at Tring is far from good. I have had 2 daughters who gained government scholarships to attend who both after 3 and 4 yrs training left to take up classical places elsewhere! if you are not the dance director's favourite or if you've dared to challenge a decision of hers then dont bother! All classical doors will be well and truly closed.

One of my daughters now attends the classical CAT programme at Leeds led by Yoko Ichino. The course is extremely challenging but absolutely fanastic. All students have personalised training programmes and my daughter has improved 100 fold and now has so much more self confidence. It helps that the dance director has been a professional ballerina herself unlike Tring's Dance Director!

[Anon2]

I appreciate that these comments about Tring are being posted by those with experience of Tring and I have none. However I have yet to hear of a child that sails through any of the vocational schools without some problem along the way - it is important to keep the lines of conversation open and let the staff/headteacher know what is worrying you or your child.

 

However I still feel uncomfortable with what is being discussed in relation to Tring in such a personal and negative manner on a public forum.

[primrose]

My experience of voiceing my concern at the above mentioned schools dance director was to the absolute detriment to my dds training. She was suddenly moved out of the A ballet group and placed into B. This group was the contempory/jazz set. The dance training was very good, but in all her time at the school did not ever do a pas de deux class and very rarely did pointe. Word of warning, you dont ever get told what set your child will be placed into until the September which means you then have to decide if this is indeed the right school/path you want your child placed on to. When my dd went to Tring, it was for her to recieve a good classical training. The teacher was lovely, but restricted in what she was able to teach due to managment.

 

Jane this is an open fourm. People are not lying about their experiences of schools and I sincerely wish that I was aware of this forum before my dd had been sent to Tring. My dd was so upset by her experiences at Tring that a year on she does not want to discuss her time there. Yes we had a meeting with the headmaster after my dd had secured funding at several schools in this country and abroad, proving that she did indeed have the correct attributes for classical training (she was a Royal Associate and had a funded place at another voc school before Tring) All he could do was apologise and asked us to put everything in writing, even though we had driven three hours at his request to have a meeting with him. We had tried to convey our feelings to the dance director but were told were told that her decisions were final.

[hfbrew]

 

 

HFBrew, sometimes, like we were, you get stuck financially at a school. Remember a DaDA is not transferable so if you are unhappy you can get faced with sticking it out or stopping vocational training altogether because you cannot afford to go elsewhere. Also the schools are quick to point out their term's notice period and having to pay the full fees for it if even it is not attended, but they neglect to tell you that DaDA specifically bars them from claiming notice fees.

 

This is where your invaluable advice is so important, I am sure that many people on this forum will be grateful that you've highlighted this little known fact about DaDas. I am just very sad that it came a bit too late for your DS.

 

You are right that its not easy to change, especially if you are on a DaDa as you can only have one of these. So I definately echo the advice to address concerns immediately. However if a student is unhappy all the time then they should reconsider options. Afterall excellent places such as Central are funded differently, Rambert is another. I know quite a few older students continuing their training elsewhere having found that their existing school is not right for them. Obviously if you've already been in receipt of a DaDa this does restrict options but there are plenty of other avenues- Laban is another that springs to mind.

 

But changing schools issues is probably best discussed elsewhere. This thread was purely a question about ranking which means some valuable advice might get lost- for example the point you make about DaDa. I am sure many other parents would have liked to have known this.

[Anon2]

Primrose, it is the fact that it is an open forum that it concerns me so much. Yes as parents and prospective parents of pupils at the school some people might want to know this information but do schools/teachers ever look at the forum? Could some of the posts be taken as defamation of character?

[aileen]

In my uninformed opinion there are several aspects to good training:

1. the teachers have sufficient expertise in their field;

2. the training is at the right level and of the right quantity for what is required;

3. the teachers enable their students to reach their full potential;

4. the teachers are fair and give all their students opportunities;

5. the teachers are open to constructive criticism and are willing to explain their decisions to the students and their parents.

 

As I said on another thread, in my experience teachers in general are not very open to constructive criticism. Unlike academic independent schools, the vocational schools don't feel that they have to keep their students and their parents happy because there are so few of these schools and so many students desperate for a place. All the power lies with the schools and this can lead to complacency which means that change is slow.

 

[Pas de Quatre]

I believe the fact that it is an open forum is extremely valuable. It allow parents past and present to exchange views and compare experiences at different schools. Otherwise there is often a tendency for a school to feign surprise at any criticism and maintain that everyone else is perfectly happy. If modern communications can topple Arab dictators in the "Arab Spring", just possibly they may help to ensure fair and equal treatment for all pupils at a Vocational school.

 

Aileen - your post appeared as I was typing, we seem to be thinking along the same lines.

[aileen]

With regard to Jane's concerns, I think that it would be preferable if people confined themselves to commenting on factual matters (eg there are two ballet groups and the students have no say on where s/he is placed; eg my 14 year old daughter only did x hours of pointe work per week; eg only x number of students were allowed to audition for x ballet; eg some students dance far more at the end of year shows than others) rather than attacking individuals personally.

[hfbrew]

Short answer, is yes the forum is read by teachers and schools But as far as Im aware there are policies at least at some establishments which prevent them from giving their side of events.

[Anna C]

I don't have a problem with people posting their personal experiences of schools. If the thread were to descend into gossip or secondhand hearsay, then we would of course take appropriate action.

 

However, much like reading reviews on Tripadvisor, hearing people's experiences - good and bad - can be invaluable. At the same time, it's important to remember that these experiences are personal. As far as I can see, nobody has said "don't go to school X, it's appalling".

 

As long as the tone of the thread retains a balance, pointing out the positives alongside the negatives, and experiences are personal, then I don't think anyone could be concerned about defamation of character.

 

If as a parent I was sending my child to any school in September, I would want to go into that process with my eyes firmly open. No school is perfect, and even at academic schools, one child can have a wonderful experience, while several others can have an awful time. But if you know the possible issues to keep an eye on beforehand, it can be very helpful.

[Dancersdad]

At present the Law in the UK does not have many teeth to prevent internet "trolls" (those who deliberately go out of their way to be unpleasant), however a recent High Court ruling forced Facebook to reveal the details of trolls who made a woman's life perfectly unbearable setting a precedent that the Government is now going to put into Law.

 

So far the comments are definitely not defamatory as they related to factual experiences. They only become defamatory if they are based on lies and half truths.

 

Remember the Human Rights Act allows you to form and hold an opinion which is all I really see being expressed here.

 

No, the comments are not very complimentary to Tring or Rachel Rist, but I am certain they can be backed up by factual evidence to support what is being said. I know I certainly would be able to provide that factual evidence for every comment made just based on DS's experience there and much, much more

[Jellybeans]

I think that the best school from a dance point of view is the school that adds the the most value to the dancer as an individual and that the best school from all other perspectives in the school in which the child flourishes the most in all aspects of school life. The two are quite possibly interlinked. many factors will influence this but the problem lies in knowing which one is most likely to achieve this for your child. I agree with the ranking of RBS, Elmhurst, Hammond/ Tring but would suggest visiting all of the chills as many times as possible before a decision has be made - if indeed, you have a choice!!

[taxi4ballet]

I'm sure we all agree that we have our childrens' best interests at heart.

 

Quite a lot of children read this forum, and I think that some of the negative comments may perhaps lead to unnecessary worry and concern, particularly for students who are about to start at a school, and maybe we should bear this in mind.

[Anjuli_Bai]

From Aileen above:

 

"In my uninformed opinion there are several aspects to good training:

1. the teachers have sufficient expertise in their field;

2. the training is at the right level and of the right quantity for what is required;

3. the teachers enable their students to reach their full potential;

4. the teachers are fair and give all their students opportunities;

5. the teachers are open to constructive criticism and are willing to explain their decisions to the students and their parents"

 

All this must also be the policy of the school - which includes the management - directors. There can't be a rift between the goals of the faculty and the goals of management.

[Ian Macmillan]

As this discussion moves on, perhaps it's worth recalling that we all signed up to an Acceptable Use Policy as part of joining this forum:

 

http://www.balletcof...ble-use-policy/

 

I would not have thought that we're there yet but, as debate flows, we might usefully also recall the section that states: "If a member chooses to make highly critical comments this must be done in their own full name and not behind an anonymous user name and email address."

 

The intention there (which originated in the ballet.co era) is not to throttle discussion within what is permitted by law, but only to insist that those wishing to publish strongly critical opinions should do so in an open and adult fashion by making themselves known to the organisation, company, or individual about which, or about whom, they are complaining. That could be done by simply adding a name/signature at the bottom of a post.

[tomuchtallent]

Well,after joining this forum I have been put of ballet for a proffession for my dd and also tring!so it only leaves Hammonds!

But don't worry,I very much appreciate all the comments and this is exactly what I wanted and expected.

I will still visit all the schools when the time is right and make my own mind up though!!

[primrose]

I have to say that there are also a lot of children at Tring who are happy with their training . One of my close friends has decided to leave her dd there and has not auditioned for upper schools anywhere else. I want to add a balanced view to this. However her dds experience if different to my dds. The dance teachers other than the one that has been mentioned are really lovely and are very good. The academic and pastoral side to the school is also very good. It is a school where the children are encouraged to be children. However I think its a good thing that parents of present students can give a honest opinion of what is good and bad about the schools in their honest opinions. Most businesses can be reviewed on many websites such as tripadvisor, so honest and factual reviews should be able to be made about schools regardless of what type of school it is.

I am well aware that the schools read this website and that is not a bad thing as it may make the schools look closley at what problems the students and parents may be having. I apologise to the original poster of this topic as I am aware that you only asked the opinions of people regarding the rankings of the schools.

[glowlight]

tomuchtalent - your comment is saddening. I have often felt concern that the comments which we 'old hands' post may put off the parents of younger children from letting them persue their dreams. Please don't let that happen. The journey to become a dancer is full of ups and downs, but it is really quite wonderful and rewarding for the child and the parent. I'm sure we all feel great pride in our dancing children and have ourselves made good friends and done things we wouldn't have done if it had not been for this journey.

 

Ian - thankyou for reminding us about anonymous posting of contentious remarks - I feel we should never post something that we wouldn't want to post in our own names - although I know that many of us value being able to post using an alias if only to protect our child's anonimity.

[Anna C]

Well,after joining this forum I have been put of ballet for a proffession for my dd and also tring!so it only leaves Hammonds!

But don't worry,I very much appreciate all the comments and this is exactly what I wanted and expected.

I will still visit all the schools when the time is right and make my own mind up though!!

 

I really hope you haven't really been put off ballet, tomuchtalent, or a certain school because some people have had troublesome experiences there. It's thanks to people's invaluable insights on here that we have as much information as possible available to us, but as parents we still have to use that information in conjunction with research, visiting the schools, speaking to the staff, and ultimately forming our own opinion of whether the school will suit our child, IF of course they are offered a place.

 

I have no illusions of ballet as a possible career, about how difficult it is to get good training, complete vocational training, and then get a contract.

 

BUT to be honest, it's not my decision because it's not my dream. I am happy to support my dd - within our financial boundaries - in pursuit of her dream. It's not for me to be "put off" but rather to absorb all the information, share the appropriate information with my daughter, and decide together when and where she should audition.

 

At my dd's academic school, there are some petty issues which annoy me. I let these go because she is so happy there (she chose the school), and because academically, she's doing extremely well. The Headteacher is a bit of an oddity, and somewhat scary, and is quite invisible, never seen by the girls. Most parents are very happy with the school, but there are many who aren't, and many who wouldn't send their daughters there! But it's turned out to be the best choice by far for my daughter as it just suits her perfectly.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that you know your dd and you know what would suit her, so as much as I find it invaluable to have ALL experiences - good and bad - from people, I still had to weigh everything up and then decide to let my dd choose that school. But at least I could make an informed decision because I had all the information.

 

You may visit a Vocational School and think "this is not the right place for my child", despite 99 other people saying it is the best school. Likewise, you may visit a school where others have had bad experiences, but find that your child adores it, and that actually it would suit her very well. I know people whose children have had wonderful training at Tring, and who are very happy with the school. So you never know. As I say, no school is perfect.

 

Read people's experiences, consider them, go to the school with an open mind, question the staff, and then decide. :-)

[balletla]

My DD was at CBA (and has been an associate at all the other schools) and I have watched internal full time classes at all the schools. I also have 2 close friends whose daughters were very recently at Tring (both in the "elite" A group for classical training). My experience is that I don't think the teachers are as precise or demanding in their classical training as I have experienced in the other schools and the students' technique does not appear as well trained. The ones that are successful at 16 seem to have had supplementary training outside the school which is concerning given the amount that a school place costs, or have such a raw talent that other schools are willing to take a chance on them. Equally, I am told that the musical theatre training is outstanding, but that is hearsay.

 

I don't want to put anyone off anywhere but there is so little information about these schools anywhere it is impossible to distinguish between them and I think if people were honest, funding aside, they tend to go on initial meet and greet and the look/feel of the buildings - much like buying a house. I also think that it is so easy as a parent of a 10yr old budding ballerina to get swept along by the experience and 'prestige' of being accepted at a school, that it is important to understand what you are getting yourself into and to be prepared. At the end of the day, it affects your child's whole life.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Ribbons