pastel Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I will be giving a demonstration and information talk at Dancique - Birmingham. Please come along! Enpointe Orthotics - customised pointe shoe pouches fitting demonstration and information session 4pm Saturday 21st November 2015 at Dancique 82 Bristol Street, Southside, Birmingham En Pointe Orthotics is an innovative, flexible, fully custom made silicone insert, worn inside the box of a pointe shoe. En Pointe Orthotics have been researched, developed and refined through substantial trials, working with dancers, teachers and in association and in consultation with medical specialists. Recommended retail price is £189, we are offering an introductory price of £135 for a limited time. Please contact Bernadette Meyers ph 07935 046 566, info@ballerini.dance, www.ballerini.dance for more information or view the En Pointe Orthotics website www.enpointeorthotics.com.au to learn more about these new inserts which make pointe work safer and more comfortable for dancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewinelake Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Ah, about time such things were available... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Yes, thewinelake, they are wonderful! They've saved my daughter's feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut68 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Yes, thewinelake, they are wonderful! They've saved my daughter's feet Wow - they do sound amazing....just wonder about the cost for a child!! Can they be remoulded to adapt with growing feet or is it a case of buying again? If the evidence really supports their use, maybe a link with the vocational schools could be made to offer discounts/onsite fittings etc.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 What sort of things can they help with pastel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewinelake Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I'm presuming that they might reduce bunions if the weight is more evenly distributed to all the toes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Wow - they do sound amazing....just wonder about the cost for a child!! Can they be remoulded to adapt with growing feet or is it a case of buying again? If the evidence really supports their use, maybe a link with the vocational schools could be made to offer discounts/onsite fittings etc.... Hi Peanut68, no, sadly they can't be remoulded, it would be wonderful if they could magically grow with the person's foot. The material is a two part mixture which is moulded around the foot and then sets to form a durable pouch. They will fit the foot until the person grows into a new size of pointe shoe. Once the foot stops growing, they last a lot longer. Yes, it would be great to have a connection with vocational schools, hopefully by having an information session, people will know more about the product and spread the word. As yet, it is new to the UK and pretty much unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 What sort of things can they help with pastel? As 'thewinelake' suggested, they definitely help with bunions and distribute the weight more evenly on the toes. The even distribution helps with balance and pain prevention. My daughter was experiencing unbearable pain in both of her big toes, when she had her pair fitted, the fitter didn't pad under the big toe at all. DD was quite disturbed and concerned because she thought she needed padding in that area. The fitter explained that if she supported the area below the other toes, that would take the pressure off the big toe and alleviate the pain. She was thrilled with the results and can now dance en pointe for hours without pain. They also prevent blisters on/around the toe area. DD used to have terrible blisters on her toes but doesn't have any now. The link below gives information about how they work to prevent things such as bone spurs, toenail damage, stress fractures etc. http://enpointeorthotics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/enpointe_brochure_5000_PROOF.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Where can these be fitted in Britain? They do sound very promising. I woul love to hear what a few more people are saying about them though as they are quite expensive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Sorry just re read the very first post and information is there ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Thanks for the explanation. Dd doesn't actually use any padding & never has discomfort but her hyper mobile foot means getting pointe shoes to fit & support her is challenging (she is fitted at Dancique hence my interest) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanprincess Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I can definitely recommend En Pointe Orthotics- since I was fitted with my orthotics in the summer, all of my pointe classes have been blissfully pain-free 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaffa Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 The idea and testimonials sound amazing. But for an expensive product which could potentially have huge health benefits for so many dancers - if I were a parent/student/teacher on a limited budget, I'd really like to see more research and the assessment of top bodies dealing with dancers' health (in the UK, maybe the National Institute for Dance Medicine and Science as well as vocational school heads?). Also how do En Pointe orthotics compare with the DIY Perfect Fit insert http://perfectfitpointe.com/ , which is considerably cheaper ($36 + shipping), but of course doesn't include fitting? Yaffa (with no connection to any of the above products) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Yes, that would be very useful, Yaffa. Customised orthotic pouches do sound fascinating and potentially very beneficial, but it's an awful lot of money to find when one is already stretched paying for training/accommodation. Pastel, do you know how these prevent bone spurs? And how beneficial they would be, say, to a dancer whose toes are all similar length and who doesn't suffer from blisters/pain en pointe? Or if they already have a bunion? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Autumn days Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 From what I remember about vocational schools, aren't they against students wearing any form of padding as this stops them feeling the floor? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewinelake Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 That wouldn't make any sense to me! Suspect there's a lot of pure old-fashionism in ballet, but that argument seems weaker than the anti-Gaynor Minden school of thought that suggests that they prevent building of strength in the foot. Plenty of good evidence and acceptance from authority in running and skiing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 In the vocational schools all have been happy with padding in shoes, the right padding that is. However all of them do not like Gaynor Minden shoes. I don't know why and even where she is now, no Gaynor mindens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Meant to write, where my daughter has been before in regard to vocational schools. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Actually my daughter has just told me that some vocational schools are funny about padding in shoes, as a student needs to feel the floor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Dd wears Gaynors for one teacher who won't allow her Merlet & Merlet for the other teacher who won't allow Gaynors!! Padding is allowed she just prefers it without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 By the time a student is in Upper School/6th form training full time, I would think they could reduce the amount of padding naturally, to just toe tips or something like an Ouch Pouch Pro which just has a thin single layer of material underfoot. I don't see the sense in banning padding outright at school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 The idea and testimonials sound amazing. But for an expensive product which could potentially have huge health benefits for so many dancers - if I were a parent/student/teacher on a limited budget, I'd really like to see more research and the assessment of top bodies dealing with dancers' health (in the UK, maybe the National Institute for Dance Medicine and Science as well as vocational school heads?). Also how do En Pointe orthotics compare with the DIY Perfect Fit insert http://perfectfitpointe.com/ , which is considerably cheaper ($36 + shipping), but of course doesn't include fitting? Yaffa (with no connection to any of the above products) The developers of the Enpointe Orthotics have discussed the differences between their product and a similar DIY product. I shall contact them and ask them to send me the explanation. I do know that the fitting process is very important and DIY would not be a good option. Each foot is assessed and there is quite an in-depth discussion with the dancer before forming the material to suit the particular requirements of the client. There are also differences in the material, but again, I will need to clarify that with the developer as well as get back to you on the endorsement by medical bodies. I'm hesitant to quote the name of the body without confirming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Yes, that would be very useful, Yaffa. Customised orthotic pouches do sound fascinating and potentially very beneficial, but it's an awful lot of money to find when one is already stretched paying for training/accommodation. Pastel, do you know how these prevent bone spurs? And how beneficial they would be, say, to a dancer whose toes are all similar length and who doesn't suffer from blisters/pain en pointe? Or if they already have a bunion? I shall contact the developer and get back to you about the bone spurs. For a dancer who is not experiencing blisters or pain, they are beneficial because they keep the toes aligned which in turn helps the dancer to keep their feet, ankles and legs in alignment. The pouches will not cure a bunion, but they will prevent the condition from worsening. When fitting the material, the first step is to have the toes in alignment and create a custom toe-separator which will fill the space in the pointe shoe, preventing the big toe from being squashed against the other toes in the pointe shoe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Actually my daughter has just told me that some vocational schools are funny about padding in shoes, as a student needs to feel the floor. Regarding padding. I know there are many strong view points on this topic and schools and individual teachers have their own opinions and rules they impose. But, to clarify a little about the pouches; there is very little material under the toes (where they touch the floor when the dancer is standing flat). They are designed so the dancer can feel the floor easily and the material is flexible and designed so the dancer can fully move through demi-pointe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomin Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Do you have to replace them with every new pair of pointe shoes? In particular hand made ones which may vary a little in shape despite being the same size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Do you have to replace them with every new pair of pointe shoes? In particular hand made ones which may vary a little in shape despite being the same size? No you don't have to replace them with every new pair. They are best fitted in a new pair if possible, and it is always essential to fit new pointe shoes with the pouches, just as you would normally take any padding for a pointe shoe fitting. My daughter has been refitted in several different brands and styles of pointe shoes with the same pair of Enpointe Orthotics. It is possible to increase pointe shoe size slightly and keep the same pair of EPOs, but it wouldn't work to go down a size in pointe shoes. When the foot is growing, it is eventually necessary to have a new pair of EPOs but not for every shoe size change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I might be risking being drummed out of the forum here, but the somewhat luddite attitude of the ballet world ( in general - not anyone in particular here) really bothers me. When I compare the way in which my other children's interests have embraced modern technologies to improve both performance and safety with the ballet world's emphasis on tradition, it leaves me feeling rather uncomfortable. My boys play hockey. The equipment is barely recognisable from when I played as a schoolgirl, and ok, im getting on a bit, but it's not THAT long ago. Even at junior club level, most of the kids are using composite sticks and the choice of designs suited to what position a player is or their individual style is huge. Add to the more powerful sticks the fact that most matches are played on astroturf rather than grass and the whole game is much more demanding and faster paced than it was when I was at a similar level. So technology has also provided safety solutions. In my day, the goalie might have worn a pair of "cricket pad" style shin guards and maybe a gum shield, that was about it. Nowadays, even for a training session, anyone who turns up without a gum shield and shin guards with ankle protection has to sit out, and my youngest, as goalkeeper wears literally thousands of pounds worth of safety equipment made out of all kinds of modern materials. Nobody looks down on him or says that he is "soft" and nor do his coaches tell him that he should expect a certain amount of pain and injury as necessary to his development. New technologies are positively embraced, as they are in numerous other sports and activities. Nobody would expect a young runner to compete wearing the same kind of shoes that were available 10, never mind 100 years ago, the achievements of today's professional cyclists aren't "poo-pooed" because they have lighter bikes and more areodynamic helmets than those of the past etc etc. Ok, ballet is an art not a sport. Yet there are parallels. Like sportspeople, dancers of today are expected to be faster, stronger, jump higher and so on, yet they are expected to do it wearing shoes which have changed little in over a century. The ballet "establishment" seems to be deeply suspicious of technological advances and to look down on those who champion new developments. Why??? If products such as these orthotics can improve the safety and well being of dancers, surely the top schools and companies should be supporting research and development of these ideas, but I somehow can't see that happening. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 So agree with you pups mum!! I've seen these orthotics and I'd jump at the chance if doing pointe work now! There is a question I'd like to ask about advanced bunions though.....if the toe has a strong angle round more than 45 degrees could these orthotics be made to fit still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 PupsMum, yes, I agree with your analogy of the progress of technology for other sports. I think it is really important for us as parents to consider the health and long term impacts of ballet on our kids. Not only pointe work, but over-stretching, dangerous dieting etc. There are some things which are preventable or it is at least possible to reduce the risks and long term effects on their bodies if we educate our young dancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 So agree with you pups mum!! I've seen these orthotics and I'd jump at the chance if doing pointe work now! There is a question I'd like to ask about advanced bunions though.....if the toe has a strong angle round more than 45 degrees could these orthotics be made to fit still? Hi LinMM, I would need to see the foot in question, or at least a photograph to answer that properly. Are you asking for a dancer who will continue to dance en pointe, or for a 'retired' dancer who seeks comfort in regular shoes. The inserts have been used in regular shoes as well as to make high heels more comfortable. I'm happy to have a look at pictures - you can message me privately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 The idea and testimonials sound amazing. But for an expensive product which could potentially have huge health benefits for so many dancers - if I were a parent/student/teacher on a limited budget, I'd really like to see more research and the assessment of top bodies dealing with dancers' health (in the UK, maybe the National Institute for Dance Medicine and Science as well as vocational school heads?). Also how do En Pointe orthotics compare with the DIY Perfect Fit insert http://perfectfitpointe.com/ , which is considerably cheaper ($36 + shipping), but of course doesn't include fitting? Yaffa (with no connection to any of the above products) I contacted the developer of the inserts about your question and her answer is pasted below. The medical association which endorses the pouches is International Association for Dance Medicine and Science. I have also added a copy of an endorsement by a foot surgeon to my webpage. http://www.breeze.pics/enpointe-orthotics Myfanwy Fish reply: "The fitting process takes training and practice which for the fitters is costly and ongoing. This in itself increases the cost to the consumer. We are always looking at how the costs can be kept at a minimum. Many comments that I have received include “what price to you put on the health of my daughters feet”. As well as our guarantee (if the fitters wants to partake - see below), EPO is also willing to subsidise the actual product (not the fitting process as this is up to the individual fitter) if a dancer is not able to afford them. This can be done by emailing EPO at admin@enpointeorthotics.com.au with your specific circumstances and the name of the EPO fitter you will be going through. EPO uses a specific shore strength silicone for flexibility and absorption of energy while do it yourself brands silicone is much harder and less flexible. Even an experienced fitter has unsatisfactory results by using the ‘do it yourself’ product. I’ve tried it on a couple of occasions." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastel Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Yes, that would be very useful, Yaffa. Customised orthotic pouches do sound fascinating and potentially very beneficial, but it's an awful lot of money to find when one is already stretched paying for training/accommodation. Pastel, do you know how these prevent bone spurs? And how beneficial they would be, say, to a dancer whose toes are all similar length and who doesn't suffer from blisters/pain en pointe? Or if they already have a bunion? I contacted the developer and have pasted her reply here: "Most commonly bone spurs occur when the body tries to repair itself from damage from local inflammation, arthritis or tendonitis. The damage could potentially be caused by dancing en pointe. EPOs silicone absorb the energy from dancing en pointe due to their consistency/shore strength as well as distribute the weight more evenly across a greater area decreasing the likelihood of damage in that area. EPO is also willing to subsidise the actual product (not the fitting process as this is up to the individual fitter) if a dancer is not able to afford them. This can be done by emailing EPO at admin@enpointeorthotics.com.au with your specific circumstances and the name of the EPO fitter you will be going through." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Excellent, thank you Pastel. :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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