Ballet training in the UK

[PrettyPointes]

PrettyPointes, there's also Bristol Russian Ballet Summer School. They do Repertoire and Pas de Deux and had students from vocational schools attend for the last two years. Elena Glurdjidze from ENB was a guest teacher last year. The entry is by photo and application forms are on their website. There's also short videos from the last two Summer Schools on the website too (and on You Tube).

Thank-you Jaylou, I hadn't heard of Bristol Russian before but they're summer school looks perfect! I'm going to apply asap  .

[madhatter]

If you´re in London there is this one too,

 

http://www.invitationtodance.org.uk/

[PrettyPointes]

If you´re in London there is this one too,

 

http://www.invitationtodance.org.uk/

 

Thank-you, Madhatter, this one looks very good, too  .

[BalletDad10]

http://www.creativitypost.com/psychology/is_grit_stifling_our_creativity

 

This article "Is grit stifling our creativity?" is an interesting read and relevant to our discussion. There's a reference to ballet at the beginning which will strike a chord with many of you. Looking forward to reading your comments.

[Anjuli_Bai]

What I gatherred from the article is that work is good overwork is not.

 

Makes sense to me.

[invisiblecircus]

We live in Rome, Italy, and even though I perfectly know that our country ballet companies and schools are not to be considered in an international scenary, I wish to share with you our personal experience, as I believe it can help to understand why many overseas students, including Italians, want so strongly apply for a place in UK vocational schools.

In Italy we only have 2, maybe 3 schools that can be considered vocational and have their own ballet companies; none of them is a boarding school, and none provides for academics. No funding at all, no scholarship offered by the schools or anyone else. If you want to get in, you have to pay the full rate. Unless you live in Rome or Milan, where these schools are located, you have also to find (and pay) an accomodation on your own, as well as an academic school.

For us, the Accademia alla Scala di Milano wasn't a possible choice: my DD is just 11 and of course she couldn't live on her own in Milan. The only chance for us was the Teatro delll'Opera di Roma, whose training system has not a very good reputation.......I can't find even one of their graduated in the best international companies.

 

 

 

Do you mean they are not to be considered "good" in an international scenery? If so, you are not the first person on here to say so but I think that accademia teatro alla scala is one of the top ballet schools in the world. I don't know anything about the school in Rome but I am surprised to read that the training system isn't good. I do know that it is not uncommon for older students to transfer to Milan when they're older though.

 

I have found it very interesting to read through all the posts in this thread because something I have been wondering about for a long time is the impact/ effect of the graded ballet exams on the British system.

 

While I realise that these are taken predominantly by children who are not aiming for a professional career and provide them with something to work towards and a measure of their progress, I wonder if they don't do a disservice to the talented children with professional aspirations, or rather that the focus on them is too great.

 

Firstly, I understand that there is a lower age limit for most of these exams.

 

Secondly, it seems that most schools offer weekly lessons of 45 mins per grade or 1 hour for majors. This is fine for the student for whom dance is a hobby but more serious students need to be taking more classes than that (preferably non-syllabus IMO.) Several dedicated dance mums and dads on this forum have mentioned that their DC make up the hours by attending numerous associate classes and workshops but these aren't accessible to everyone and I think there is a real need for more classes to be available at a local level. I also note that many local dance teachers forbid their students from attending classes outside of their own school (unless it is something prestigious like JA.) This could also lead the less experienced/ knowledgeable ballet parent to believe that one lesson per week is enough.

 

A child accepted to vocational school at 11 should be able to catch up, but it is extremely difficult to compete for a place at 16 with children who have been having lessons 6 days per week, be they from UK vocational schools or from other countries with better local provision.

 

Another point which I think Anjuli_Bai touched on is the use of inexperienced or even unqualified teachers for the lower grades. In the UK, there are classes for children as young as 3, and many of these chidren get bored of ballet before reaching the age where chidren in most countries are starting. Here in Italy, I found it impossible to find classes for children under 6, but the classes I found for older children were better quality than what I've seen in the UK.

 

Edited to include paragraphs!

Edited June 9, 2014 by invisiblecircus

[Zacharovitti]

Invisiblecircus, I didn't want to say they "are not good enough" to be considered in an international scenery, I simply noticed that they are not considered from other countries when talking about the best companies/schools of the world. It can be due to many different reasons, but it's a fact. The Accademia alla scala di Milano is an excellent school, but it was not a possible choice for us for the reason I wrote in my first post. As for Teatro dell'Opera di Roma, I confirm what I wrote: many talented students go away to finish their training, as they understand they could have better training/job opportunities elsewhere. There are surely some very good dancers in the company, but their career' s opportunities are limited to the very few productions of the theatre.

Re graded ballet exams on the British System....I hope one of our experienced friends of the forum can help you (and me!) answering your questions

[invisiblecircus]

Invisiblecircus, I didn't want to say they "are not good enough" to be considered in an international scenery, I simply noticed that they are not considered from other countries when talking about the best companies/schools of the world. It can be due to many different reasons, but it's a fact.

 

I noticed that too and in fact there was recently a post on a different thread saying something similar, which interested me because I had not previously thought that (about La Scala in particular) and still don't understand it.

 

The Accademia alla scala di Milano is an excellent school, but it was not a possible choice for us for the reason I wrote in my first post. As for Teatro dell'Opera di Roma, I confirm what I wrote: many talented students go away to finish their training, as they understand they could have better training/job opportunities elsewhere. There are surely some very good dancers in the company, but their career' s opportunities are limited to the very few productions of the theatre.

Re graded ballet exams on the British System....I hope one of our experienced friends of the forum can help you (and me!) answering your questions

 

It's a shame that Accademia alla scala isn't more accessible to students from other parts of Italy. It seems that, as you wrote when you suggested why so many foreign students want to study in the UK, there are many countries in similar situations. I wonder if the provision of dance training isn't more in line with the number of jobs available in those countries!

 

I went to a vocational school and there was quite a high percentage of Italians there. Most, in fact, all that I know of, came from local dancing schools and were able to gain sufficient training in those schools to enter vocational school between 14 and 17 years old. Some of the students had been attending classes with adults (who were there just for pleasure), it seems that classes at local dance schools are more flexible. Unusually for a British student, I also trained via this route with a brilliant American teacher who hired the studio at a local theatre and taught classes using a combination of Russian and Cechetti methods (which she, herself had been taught at her school in the US.)

 

In the UK there does seem to b a shortage of non- syllabus classes but I suppose that the number of students drops at around the same time that the number of hours study needs to be increased. I believe also that teachers who are qualified under one of the exam boards need to keep entering students for exams to maintain their membership so it makes sense for them that if they were only going to offer one class at a particular level, they would make it a syllabus one.

 

I'm sorry, I don't seem to be able to to write my thoughts clearly!

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

I have found it very interesting to read through all the posts in this thread because something I have been wondering about for a long time is the impact/ effect of the graded ballet exams on the British system.

 

While I realise that these are taken predominantly by children who are not aiming for a professional career and provide them with something to work towards and a measure of their progress, I wonder if they don't do a disservice to the talented children with professional aspirations, or rather that the focus on them is too great.

 

....

 

Another point which I think Anjuli_Bai touched on is the use of inexperienced or even unqualified teachers for the lower grades. In the UK, there are classes for children as young as 3, and many of these chidren get bored of ballet before reaching the age where chidren in most countries are starting. Here in Italy, I found it impossible to find classes for children under 6, but the classes I found for older children were better quality than what I've seen in the UK.

 

 

This is my opinion based on what I have seen in UK (not full-time vocational) ballet schools. I agree that the focus on them is too great. There is a very big focus on syllabus work and getting ready for the next exam. In fact, it is rare to see real syllabus-free classes for young people at these schools. If there is a syllabus-free class, the teacher just asks for syllabus work but set to different music. So if you didn't know the syllabus work, you would be stuck because the teacher would say, "Do allegro 1", etc, with no marking of the steps/enchainment.

 

One school would publish their exam bands and marks of their students on their newsletter and website. If you got distiction the mark would be published so everyone would also know if you didn't get distinction. It appears this had been going on for years, so I assume the RAD must not mind this practice? But it just gives more pressure to students, that they must be 'rubblish' if they don't distinction. However, I don't know how widespread this practice is in the UK.

 

Also at the same school, the students would do the higher grade RAD exams in a year. I heard one girl say that she, 'must be rubbish' (these were her exact words) because she still hadn't done grade 7 after a year in the class.

 

I also know of schools using students to teach lower-level children classes. I once overheard one student, not yet qualified to teach, say to another student-teacher she was teaching the 'baby classes' the next morning. "Baby classes" was referring to RAD Primary level, the old syllabus. The other girl replied that, "You just play about in baby classes." I had a look at the old Primary syllabus, and I felt you needed a good amount of understanding of technique to do it properly. It's worrying that teaching lower-level grades is thought to be 'playing about'.

 

Also, it seems to me it's adult classes that are 'real' free classes, if we take Pineapple classes as an example. But I feel a lot of young people are missing out on a lot of ballet vocabulary and loosing the chance to learn how to pick up free work by this big focus on syllabus work. I feel that the schools use exam results to prove they are a good school, so most schools in the UK focus on syllabus exams.

 

I saw this problem appear in class one day. After I had done my intermediate exam, I told the teacher during class what I got for the free-work section. One girl, who was about 14/15 years-old said, "How do you know what all those steps are called?" It was a genuine question. She had done ballet nearly all her life, working her way through RAD exams. But if she were to audition for vocational school, surely she would be at a great disadvantage from never having learnt how to pick up free work? How could she compete with other dancers outside the UK, whose training did not focus on syllabus work?

Edited June 10, 2014 by Dancer Sugar Plum

[drdance]

Dancer sugar plum you raise some excellent points there. I also believe that a huge number of dance teachers in the UK do syllabus classes because it's easy. Someone has already planned the class, choreographed the settings, thought about what is suitable work for each age group etc. The RAD always teach teachers that their work is an EXAMINATION SYLLABI not a training syllabi so classes really ought to be free work based around the exam settings, but so many teachers just use the exam settings. This is boring and repetitive and teaches kids to pass exams but not how to dance!

 

But this country is obsessed with exams and exam results - when the government judges schools on the basis of exam results to the point where kids are not entered for a gcse because they might not get a C, we are not doing right by the kids. All they judge themselves on is exam results and whether they're good enough and I think this sadly is coming into dance classes.

 

Yes you can judge a teacher by their exam results but it only tells a small part of the story.

[Sadielou]

I think one of the problems is that parents expect and need certificates to present to senior schools/Universities to prove how accomplished or talented their child is, and the only way they can do this is through the exam system. Over the years especially in London, playing an instrument, dancing, acting, singing to a certain standard has become another way of possibly gaining entry to otherwise oversubscribed state and private schools. When I first started my school (20 years ago) there wasn't this same manic need for exams and passing them year in year out. We used to do exams one year and a performance the next and quite often put in totally non syllabus classes.

But now so many children (at least where I teach) are up to their necks with every after school activity under the sun and tutoring for school entrance exams (even the 6 year olds), that for most coming to ballet more than once a week is an impossibility, (however much I push) and yet parents are far more adamant than before that their child must take exams. The RAD has recently overhauled it's syllabus and now all the junior and senior grades are more dance orientated, the enchainments involved are a lot longer and contain more complicated mixtures of steps, (it has been said that may of these enchainments have everything but the kitchen sink thrown in) and although the children really seem to be enjoying the new approach, there is never enough time for teachers to really get down to the basics, especially on one hour a week. It is really quite sad, but non vocational ballet training in this country is being pushed to go along the same route as our educational school system exams, exams, exams. 

 

 

 

 

[invisiblecircus]

Dancer Sugar Plum and drdance, I couldn't agree more with both of your posts!

 

Dancer Sugar Plum, are you British or UK based?

 

I have worked with youth companies and on various projects in the UK and have auditioned students from local dance schools. I have also spoken with a number of students enrolled in dance classes in the large town I lived in.

 

From what I saw and heard, the emphasis was so great on the syllabus that the main focus of the class was memorising the set exercises rather than perfecting technique. I was shocked to hear that in some classes, barre exercises were only being done on one side, either the same side for everything or alternating sides for each exercise. Obviously some teachers are better than others and this isn't done everywhere, but I have heard it from a great number of places.

 

It also seems common for schools to put on a show annually or bi-annually and during rehearsals for this, no class work or syllabus work would be done (but routines would often contain large elements of syllabus work!)

 

We had a girl join our adult class who had come from one of the local ISTD schools. She was apparently one of their best students, 17 years old and being groomed for entry to a musical theatre course at 18. She was also studying for her teaching exams and taught "baby ballet" at her school. We used to do the same class maybe three times, usually with some changes before getting new exercises entirely. She really struggled with this and did not appear to be well taught. She had apparently passed the "new" intermediate but could not execute a single pirouette correctly.

 

I have heard that the idea of the new RAD syllabus is that classes are taught mostly with non-syllabus work to learn technique and steps and the exams are just to assess the level attained, but I am wondering how that will work out in practice (I have not seen this new syllabus.)

 

I haven't heard of schools publishing just distinction grades but I have seen numerous articles in local papers reporting that "school X had Y number of students take exams and all passed" or even listing every result of every student who took an exam/ medal/ rosette/ class award. It's great publicity for the school and I imagine that anyone trying to compete with those schools with open ballet classes would struggle because parents love the idea of certificates and qualifications!

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

Drdance, I agree with your comments.

 

Even in academic schools, the first questions people will ask about it is, 'Is it a good school? What are the exam results like?' But to be fair, if we are not using exam results, how would we judge a school, if you have no experience connection with that school?

 

Then with (not full-time) ballet schools, it's the same problem. Especially for parents who have had not any experience with ballet, how could they judge for themselves which school is better for their DC other than use exam results and the number who got distinctions? We all know that just because you get a distinction in X exam does not guarantee you will get into a vocational school anyway.

 

I too have heard it said that the RAD have stated their syllabus is an examination syllabus. But if you are a part-time school (ie not full-time) there is no time to do free work, or teach the syllabus steps within a real free work setting, before teaching the exam content. There is no time because teachers need to get students ready for exams as soon as they can. Then the students miss out on doing real free work and learning how to dance, as you say. It becomes a vicious circle.

 

I saw this problem in the old RAD syllabi (the syllabi just stopped/stopping). And I've heard that the new syllabi is more choreographed so everything is more dancey. So I can't imagine schools used to focusing on syllabus work changing their focus to more free work when it's now even harder for students to learn the vocational syllabi.

[invisiblecircus]

Sadielou, I hadn't seen your post when I posted. I agree with everything you wrote too.

 

I wonder whether the new RAD syllabus will actually have the opposite affect and will end up encouraging some teachers to drill the set exercises (which seem more complex) into the students, focussing on teaching the students to memorise the steps instead of the technique, especially as many students are not used to un-set work.

 

I think these exams could work well though if teachers would be brave enough to teach free work, then introduce the actual set exercises at a fairly late stage, by which point the students, now used to picking up new exercises, can memorise them quickly and perform them with the technique they have perfected.

 

Competition with other schools is a problem though. Children might feel more confident going into an exam when they've been doing the same exercises all year and if other schools are offering this, it could encourage parents to move their child to those schools.

[invisiblecircus]

Drdance, I agree with your comments.

 

Even in academic schools, the first questions people will ask about it is, 'Is it a good school? What are the exam results like?' But to be fair, if we are not using exam results, how would we judge a school, if you have no experience connection with that school?

 

I would be very interested to hear from people in other countries how it works in their country.

 

I live in Italy now but don't know enough about the training here to give an accurate comment other than from what I've seen, there don't seem to be classes for children under 6 (first class of elementary school) and that the limited number of classes I know of do not follow a particular syllabus with a view to taking an exam.

[aileen]

The emphasis on taking exams in music and dance seems to be a peculiarly British thing which has been exported to some of the Commonwealth counties such as Australia, Hong Kong and Singapore. Does it denote a lack of trust in music and dance teachers? In music, if your child applies to anything unauditioned such as a summer school or a local youth orchestra it's very quick and easy for the organisers to gauge the child's level by reference to exam passes. 

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

Dancer Sugar Plum and drdance, I couldn't agree more with both of your posts!

 

Dancer Sugar Plum, are you British or UK based?

 

I have worked with youth companies and on various projects in the UK and have auditioned students from local dance schools. I have also spoken with a number of students enrolled in dance classes in the large town I lived in.

 

From what I saw and heard, the emphasis was so great on the syllabus that the main focus of the class was memorising the set exercises rather than perfecting technique. I was shocked to hear that in some classes, barre exercises were only being done on one side, either the same side for everything or alternating sides for each exercise. Obviously some teachers are better than others and this isn't done everywhere, but I have heard it from a great number of places.

 

It also seems common for schools to put on a show annually or bi-annually and during rehearsals for this, no class work or syllabus work would be done (but routines would often contain large elements of syllabus work!)

 

Yes Invisiblecircus, I am British and based in the UK.

 

I agree that school shows can be another 'problem'. Since ballet is a performing art, it's great for students to have experience being on stage. It lets students find out if performing is something they would enjoy doing.

 

However, the problem arises when it seems to be accepted that when schools start preparing for their show, and this could be a yearly show, the rehearsals take up 'normal' ballet class time for most of the term before the show takes place. It means there is no barre work, no 'proper' centre work, but just jumping straight into learning sequences for the show in every class. So if it's a piece with a lot of allegro, you are starting off class with an allegro sequence! Or, I have seen the teacher ask for the adage or port de bras exercise for centre practice to be done first thing in class as the warm up. They then launch straight into show work for the rest of class, which has allegro, pirouettes and grand allegro. No plies or tendus are done. This will carry on for each class until the show is over. This is a problem because you never feel properly warmed-up to tackle the show work. I can't imagine full-time vocational schools making their yearly show take over all their classes. Even professional dancers get a normal class every morning before rehearsals. It's thoughts like these, which make me feel that our young dancers are being short-changed.

 

You are right Invisiblecircus, I have seen syllabus classes ask for exercises at the barre to be done one side only. I believe this is to allow more time to do centre work.

[invisiblecircus]

 In music, if your child applies to anything unauditioned such as a summer school or a local youth orchestra it's very quick and easy for the organisers to gauge the child's level by reference to exam passes. 

 

I think the music exams are very different in the way they are taught, in that by necessity, the students build up to exam pieces by doing a number of practise exercises and shorter pieces. I believe they also so a lot of non-exam work (correct me if I'm wrong!)

It is also not uncommon for students to skip grades in music which would be difficult to do in ballet.

 

I see your point about exam grades being an easy way to gauge level attained but in ballet at least, I think this could be accomplished by asking number of hours per week and number of years studied.

 

Are the ballet grades from the various examining organisations roughly equal to each other?

[aileen]

Dancer Sugar Plum, it's difficult for local schools though. Only a very tiny minority of their students will aspire towards a career as a professional dancer and it's not unreasonable for schools to prioritise the recreational dancers over the aspiring professionals. Dancing in a show or a full length ballet is enormous fun, and not everyone is good enough or has the opportunity to take part in EYB, LCB etc (the latter is incredibly difficult to get into as there are no geographical restrictions and students from vocational schools apply as well). I believe that some schools are more geared up to catering for the aspiring professional than others and that the parent needs to gauge this and move the child if necessary, rather than wishing that the existing school would stop doing shows etc which the vast majority of the school's students will enjoy taking part in.

[Moomin]

I don't think it is not only parents who like exams, the children like doing them and are very proud of their certificates and proof of their progress. It also gives them that bit of incentive to work harder and the progression in the few weeks before the exam can be enormous! It's also preparing them for the pressure of academic exams and auditions etc. I'm not sure if there are any students who aim for a career in dance who would only be doing syllabus classes, it's the accepted practice that they will attend associates, private lessons etc which will be non-syllabus classes. Ideally a class would be a mix of free and syllabus work but a lot of people do not want to do more than one class a week which must make it very hard to do anything but the bare minimum.

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

Dancer Sugar Plum, it's difficult for local schools though. Only a very tiny minority of their students will aspire towards a career as a professional dancer and it's not unreasonable for schools to prioritise the recreational dancers over the aspiring professionals. Dancing in a show or a full length ballet is enormous fun, and not everyone is good enough or has the opportunity to take part in EYB, LCB etc (the latter is incredibly difficult to get into as there are no geographical restrictions and students from vocational schools apply as well). I believe that some schools are more geared up to catering for the aspiring professional than others and that the parent needs to gauge this and move the child if necessary, rather than wishing that the existing school would stop doing shows etc which the vast majority of the school's students will enjoy taking part in.

 

Aileen, I agree that it's very enjoyable to take part in a show/performance. I wouldn't want young dancers to miss out on this experience, even if they have no aspirations to do ballet as a career. I only mentioned it as a 'problem' because learning show routines/dances in a school replaces normal class (from personal experience). However, there may be dancers who don't see this as a 'problem'. I also agree that part-time schools have limitations so this affects what they can do and the classes they can offer.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

A lot of parents won't or can't afford to pay for extra show classes so schools, especially the smaller ones have no option to spend the majority of class in the build up to a show on routines.

[invisiblecircus]

Aileen, I agree that it's very enjoyable to take part in a show/performance. I wouldn't want young dancers to miss out on this experience, even if they have no aspirations to do ballet as a career. I only mentioned it as a 'problem' because learning show routines/dances in a school replaces normal class (from personal experience). However, there may be dancers who don't see this as a 'problem'. I also agree that part-time schools have limitations so this affects what they can do and the classes they can offer.

 

I also agree that school shows are an important part of the ballet experience for everyone, after all, performance is the reason why people train in ballet (either professionally or as an amateur) and there is so much to be gained by taking part in a show. It is also understandable that schools would focus their provision on the students without professional aspirations, after all, they're running a business and those students are their biggest customers.

 

It's just a shame that the students who want to, can't continue with their ballet classes during the build up to a show, especially as teachers generally don't allow their students to study with other local teachers. Perhaps it is less important for the younger students but when you get to the age when some children are starting vocational school, it is easy to see how students from these schools get left behind.

 

I understand that associate courses are available for children who want to persue ballet further, but are there enough places for every child with potential? Are local ballet teachers capable of providing training of that quality?

 

 

You are right Invisiblecircus, I have seen syllabus classes ask for exercises at the barre to be done one side only. I believe this is to allow more time to do centre work.

 

This is one of my main gripes with these classes. The pressure on getting through exam after exam should not be so great that classes are taught in such a way that the main aim is to memorise the material at the expense of experiencing a proper ballet class. For most students though, the exam certificates are the end of the story.

 

It would be interesting to know whether ballet as a recreational activity is less popular in countries where they really are doing it just for fun and the reward of mastering a new step or better technique.

[2dancersmum]

I think it is important to remember that for the vast majority of children ballet is just a hobby and I don't think most schools suggest they are anything other than recreational studios.  Many parents start their children in ballet at a young age as a fun thing to do and often they will try swimming, gymnastics, martial arts, football, netball, cricket and many other activities also.  After all, how do you know which activity will best suit your child unless they try them.  The RAD grades are designed to be an exam/training system for all dancers - not just those aiming for a career in classical ballet - or at least that is what our teacher told us - that part of the reason for having classical, character and free movement in the grades was so that there was something for all dancers to aim for and not just those with a good ballet facility.  The vocational grades being purely classical are to encourage more serious dancers but I don't think anyone would suggest that just doing grades was enough for those aiming at a career but the same sort of thing is true in football, swimming etc.  To get enough quality training you have to move beyond just your local classes/clubs etc.

 

As for the concentration on exams, barre exercises on one side only etc - surely that comes down to the methods of the individual teachers rather than the system itself. At our local ballet school and other not quite so local we have experience of all pupils from grade 1 upwards have the option of a non syllabus class each week and students are only entered for an exam when they are ready - there is no rushing for everyone in a class to move up every year and all experience exercises on both sides and exam positions are not set until closer to the time so all will dance in each position in the group also.  This is in a small village dance school with only 2 studios.  Full length ballets are performed in a local theatre every few years.  Younger ones will do a mixture of grade and show work in their classes until a month or so before the show - the main cast will lose Saturdays to rehearsals but still do grades during the week.  Factors like availability of studio and cost determine what can be done.

 

I think it only natural that keen dancers will look beyond their local studios to enhance their dancing - if other DDs are like mine they would far rather have danced all day than gone to school or done anything else.  Many dance schools in this country are excellent and have excellent teachers but they always have restrictions and a duty to all their students, not just the odd few that show exceptional 'talent'

[Dancer Sugar Plum]

As for the concentration on exams, barre exercises on one side only etc - surely that comes down to the methods of the individual teachers rather than the system itself. At our local ballet school and other not quite so local we have experience of all pupils from grade 1 upwards have the option of a non syllabus class each week and students are only entered for an exam when they are ready - there is no rushing for everyone in a class to move up every year and all experience exercises on both sides and exam positions are not set until closer to the time so all will dance in each position in the group also.  This is in a small village dance school with only 2 studios.  Full length ballets are performed in a local theatre every few years.  Younger ones will do a mixture of grade and show work in their classes until a month or so before the show - the main cast will lose Saturdays to rehearsals but still do grades during the week.  Factors like availability of studio and cost determine what can be done.

 

2dancersmum - It sounds like your DD goes to a wonderful school, she is very lucky.

 

Just my personal opinion, I feel that some teachers choose to do exercises one side of the barre only just to make more time for centre work. If you run vocational RAD classes at 1 hour or 45 minutes for each class, then as a teacher it looks like you will have to shorten barre work in order to cover more centre work. I have also seen instances where the teacher decides to miss barre work completely for one class or several classes, and you are asked to jump straight into centre work. Personally, classes like these do not suit me because I don't feel centred enough to jump straight into centre work at the start of class.

 

However, I am not disagreeing that there are advantages to doing syllabus work, as mentioned by other posters. I agree that it's great to work towards an exam as an incentive to do better. Since the thread touched upon the subject of syllabus work in UK ballet training, I've listed what I think are the disadvantages of relying heavily on syllabus classes.

 

I also think it's a downside of part-time schools having yearly shows, where normal classes are completely taken over by show work. I agree with the point made that this cannot be helped due to constraints, such as not having extra time outside class to learn show work. However, it's a real shame that there are no normal classes in the run up to a show, and this could be almost the whole term. One of my teachers, who was a professional dancer, said that it is so important to attend class the morning after a performance in order to re-centre yourself. And she is speaking about being a professional dancer, who obviously is no longer in training. So it would make sense that those still in training should not need to go without normal classes, just because they are performing in shows.

 

Another downside of doing shows is the cost and fundraising. I know that different schools probably approach this differently, but if the school insists on the dancers and parents helping with fundraising, it can get awkward. One school set up a fundraising scheme for new costumes where you would have to fork out your own money if you were not able to raise it elsewhere. This was on top of paying for costume hire. It would get awkward if you had money contraints and/or you work in an environment where their fundraising scheme did not suit. It would be awkward having to admit you can't contribute more money because of your personal situation. If you did not know the teacher well, how could you be confortable saying, "Sorry I have money contraints at the moment, so I don't see how I could give you more money for your fundraising?" Therefore you end up forking out more money for their fundraising, on top of costume hire fees. Then you may find that the money they've gathered from fundraising has been spent on brand-new constumes that you or your DC don't get to wear. You could feel it's unfair you had to give more money to the school when it was of no benefit to you or your DC, and you really didn't have the cash to spare in the first place...

 

I should repeat I am only pointing out the downsides of schools doing shows. I agree there are many positive aspects. However, I am still curious about how other countries, who are not so heavily reliant on syllabus work, train their students before they enter vocational school. Surely it should not matter whether the student will audition for vocational school or not. They still need to be taught how to dance, how to pick up free work, whether they want to do it as a career later on, or continue doing it recreationally.

[CeliB]

There is another disadvantage to a system based on doing exams and that is some children really don't like them but feel pressured to do them in order to move up to the next class. My non vocational DD did grades 3 and 4 at the same time just before we moved out of London. In the new town she went to a grade 5 class which then got rescheduled almost every term. At that time she had major commitments to her diving training so kept having to leave ballet when it clashed, and then rejoin when it changed to a time that fitted her schedule. As a result she sat in a grade 5 class for 3 YEARS repeating the same syllabus. Eventually the school realised this and allowed her to move up to other classes anyway, but given that she had managed grades 3 and 4 together aged 10 (and got merit in both) it was a bit farcical for her still to be doing grade 5 aged 13...

 

She doesn't really care at all about having the grades and honestly neither did I- it was just a great big pain to manage costs, logistics etc.

 

Now she does a vaganova based class and does no exams at all and is much happier....

[Anjuli_Bai]

An American viewpoint....

 

Dr.Dance I agree with your comments regarding syllabus work.  In my early years of study, I took 3yrs of Cecchetti from a celebrated Cecchetti teacher/examiner.  I found it was a good way to teach very basic work such as positions of the body, arms, head, etc.  But otherwise found it boring in the extreme (including the pre-ordained music), and even though there was "freework" it was not enough to overcome the negative aspects of not having the student  learn to assimulate new movement or new ways of putting together dance sequences.  Thus, when this Cecchetti teacher offered to mentor me into the Cecchetti Council - I politely refused.

 

For 40 yrs I loved choreographing every class I taught.  This not only keeps the teaching fresh - as well as the teacher - but also keeps the students, even the youngest, on their toes (pun intended)..  They accept and expect to be challenged with having to put together new combinations of even the most basic steps.  A glissade shouldn't always start with the back foot - it shouldn't always move to the side, the arms shouldn't always be the same, etc.

 

As you probably know syllabus work is not used very much at all in the USA- and yet we do produce good dancers.  Exams are not done - there is no formal grading in the overwhelming number of schools.  This also means no exam fees or any of the other expenses .  

 

As for only doing  one side of the barre - I've only seen that once.  The teacher was a very famous person - but, sorry, that is simply unacceptable to me.  Nor is skipping barre work.

 

Both the classes I took and the classes I taught were always 90 minutes long, except for the very young.  We did two shows a year, one at Christmas time and one during the summer.  They can, of course, interrupt regular class work but only if that's what the teacher wants to do.  Early on in the learning process for a show II taught the enchainements for the dance as part of classwork - the students didn't know it would be part of the dance in a show.  After a fairly short while, when the sequences came together, we only rehearsed those particular sequences for the last few minutes of a regular class.  

 

As the performance time approached, the dance was already smooth and we only needed approximately two rehearsals, one/two on stage, together with the rest of the school.

 

I never allowed the show dances to consume - or even come close - regular ballet class work.  I have to say that since the students were not part of a syllabus system, they were quick to pick up new enchainement and learning a dance was just part of learning new movement in every class.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Anjuli- you say classes are 90 mins. Can I ask what school hours are in your country.

 

I think a lot if dance schools. & children would struggle to fit 90 min classes into a schedule.

 

I run drama/performing arts classes that are 90 mins for young ones. They start at 4pm & parents struggle to get their children their in time. The later class that ends at 7.30pm parents complain its too late.

 

At my daughters old dance school she began at 4.15pm with a 45 min ballet class, then into tap, a break because a different grade was scheduled then modern finishing at 7.15pm. Then it was pretty much straight home & bed.

[afab]

Classes are 90 min. in France and school finishes at 4.30 for the youngest and often 5.30 at the start of secondary school if not later at the end of secondary school and kids still attend. My non vocational daughters finish dance at 8.30 twice a week and 7.30 every other day of the week...

 

Then there is school work and lots of it as it's the French way! 

 

Edited to add: By the way, I completely relate to what Anjuli said... And also shows are planned and rehearsed to a very high level in 2 weeks in DD1 school and they are wonderful! Everything has been covered along the year... 

Edited June 11, 2014 by afab

[Anjuli_Bai]

Anjuli- you say classes are 90 mins. Can I ask what school hours are in your country.

 

I think a lot if dance schools. & children would struggle to fit 90 min classes into a schedule.

 

I run drama/performing arts classes that are 90 mins for young ones. They start at 4pm & parents struggle to get their children their in time. The later class that ends at 7.30pm parents complain its too late.

 

At my daughters old dance school she began at 4.15pm with a 45 min ballet class, then into tap, a break because a different grade was scheduled then modern finishing at 7.15pm. Then it was pretty much straight home & bed.

 

Well, I can't give you a definitive answer since different school districts begin and end at different times, but I think a general time span would be 8:30 to around 3:30.  But that's a very general statement.

[Pas de Quatre]

I think the big difference is that in most countries outside UK ballet classes are longer because tap and modern would not be taken.  The whole of the after school time would be for ballet so there would be no problem with a 90 min class.  In my ballet school more advanced classes are at least 75 mins and the longest one is a special coaching class including pointework of an hour and three quarters but I know that is unusual.

[sophika9899]

Just thinking aloud here and it probably wouldn't work but what if ballet schools were set up in the uk which only took kids aged perhaps 13 or over who showed an inclination towards serious ballet? They could carry on academics in their normal school and then be offered 2 or 3 hours an evening according to their age. So, if a local ballet teacher saw potential and willing in a student she could suggest the school to that child and their parents. These schools would be non-syllabus. Then in year 10 the training could be geared toWards preparing them for the full time auditions in year 11. Lots of pitfalls of course and I haven't really thought it through. For instance there would have to be one or two in every major city. As the kids would have to be able to get to them and back home. The fees would have to be low to allow anyone to benefit. But it's a thought.

[2dancersmum]

The children who do ballet and want to go onto vocational school or make a career out of dance are very much in the minority when you look at the provision of ballet classes and dance classes in general.  I would hate it if children were put off dancing or going to certain schools because they were not serious enough or considered good enough.  I know quite a few adults who have danced since childhood and who love to dance but have never wanted to make a career out of it.  There are plenty of ballet schools, associate classes, dance days, summer and easter courses etc out there to supplement the grade classes of those who wish to and the nature of taking extra voluntary classes also means you can make it fit with your schedule.  My kids are out daily 8 - 5pm for school.  Going to a major city to attend a school for the serious ballet student would be impossible - apart from the cost  - as the whole evening would be spent travelling to and from the major city.

 

I have to say reading this thread I have come to the conclusion that I quite like living where we do.  Its not just my DDs school that includes non syllabus classes but also those in the towns closest to us, where friends dance and a school elder DD used to attend.  None of them have any fundraising for shows either.  Costumes for shows tend to be fairly simple and are made in bulk by a lady locally so we pay on average about £15-20 and the child keeps the costume afterwards.  The school that does festivals has more regular costume costs and I am not sure how they do it as DD did not do festivals.

 

I still think that it is down to the teacher/school as to how classes are taught when they are following a syllabus.  It should not be all about getting as many children through as many exams as possible and I hope there are enough teachers and schools out there that people can avoid places where that is the case