Sadielou

I didn’t say anything about Xenephobia didn’t even enter my mind. It was you that brought it into the conversation. The thread was about the difficulty of Uk passport holding dancers finding jobs here and abroad and the fact that it was now more difficult as many EU companies are stipulating only EU auditionees. It was then pointed out that 14 RBS students had recently secured contracts overseas. All I said was that 11 of them had probably found it a little easier (not taking away from their talent or that they didn’t deserve these postings) as they were either EU or USA passport holders. This is when for some reason Xenophobia was brought into the mix. After which , I mused that if many (not all) companies abroad were no longer accepting non EU dancers - does that make them Xenephobic. As it seems that if the same (only UK passport holders) were to happen in the UK or is even discussed It would be and is slammed as such. Isn’t this double standards ? I have nothing left to say on the subject and am signing out.

The point was that of the 14 RBS students gaining postings abroad. Most of those going to EU companies held EU passports and those gaining contracts in the USA were already American passport holders. No visas needed. More and more EU companies are stipulating only EU passport holders, the same in the states. Perhaps it is these companies that are xenophobic ?

Good point forget that one !

At the risk of being shouted down I thought I would share a few of my insights, thoughts on the current work / audition situation for our young dancers. As some have mentioned previously there are now far too many schools, just counted 12 in the UK, (and they are just the well know ones), and far too few jobs to accommodate the amount of Graduates filing out of them every year. The ratios involved are never going to add up. So why oh why are “Dancers” on the Gov UK jobs available list ??? Another petition needed I think. Due to the lack of jobs, many vocational colleges have ramped up their training to include an extra Graduate year, and now another new trend has emerged the “Trainee course” and my personal hate “The Junior Company” These courses are only serving to prolong the fate of dancers that are unable to find viable jobs. Yes I hear you scream, but isn’t it better that students are keeping in shape, doing class and gaining valuable experience. No, in my humble opinion it is fleecing parents of money and prolonging the inevitable. Many European Companies have a glut of older dancers, dancers that are entrenched until retirement (who can blame them) so there are very few new contracts up for grabs. Employing new dancers on full time contracts, runs the risk (after two years employment) of having that dancer fill that spot till the bitter end. So Companies having got wise to this have invented “The Junior Company” or “Trainees" to fill their empty Corps spots. Because on these Junior contracts, young dancers can easily be replaced yearly, with no worry of having them wait out their time till retirement. New blood every year for the company for way less money, win win. Having had a Son working for a European Junior Company. I know first hand, that these kids get paid less (some not at all) Yet do the same amount of work and in most cases more than the full time Corps Company members. My other Son after graduation had a “Trainee” contract in a different European Co. He was paid 500 Euros a month, which didn’t even cover his rent. The contract stated that the trainees would be training alongside the full time company dancers and helped into work at the end of the contract. Of course this didn’t happen. On day one the Director gave an introductory speech, his first statement being that ‘There will be no contracts at the end of this season” A very depressing reality on your first day. There was no “Training” per se and all trainees were thrown into all performances alongside the full company members, even, as in my Sons case doing featured roles. At the end of the contract, there was, as promised no contracts and no help with auditioning elsewhere. Not even a thank you for all your hard work. All that was offered was another trainee year. We nearly capitulated and signed a second contract, but in the end had to come to the sensible decision, that it was simply unaffordable, and delaying the inevitable. We found out later that the Government paid this Company 3000 Euros per month for each trainee of which there were 6. As the trainees themselves only received 500 per month.this meant that 15000 euros monthly went into the company coffers curtsy of these young dancers. What a rip off ! I thought that since my dancing days things would have improved, but actually think they have got much worse. At least in my day students were paid to perform with the major companies. I am fed up with hearing of young dancers being expected to work as extras for little or no payment, propping up the major companies who couldn't do the classics without them. Year after year ENB use young dancers as extra’s. ENB have pared down their contracted dancers to such a degree that they simply cannot do any of their classics without an influx of extras. These dancers are treated like second class citizens, not given company dressing rooms, (literally put in a bathroom) unable to use the company Gym or Physio suite and on top of that ENB has the audacity to pay them £100 a week less than the corps company members who are doing the same and in some cases less work. But year after year ENB know dancers will apply as extra’s hoping to gain that illusive full contract. A contract that never materialises as more often than not the Director has already employed a dancer scouted from one or other of the big competitions, or, as I see this year already, a Canadian, Dutch trained dancer scouted at the Grands Audition. Why don't they take from their feeder school, or from the many extra's who already know their productions. These students / extras must be good enough as they are already performing for paying audiences under the ENB banner. RB & BRB are even worse as they don't even bother to pay their students. Once again poor parents, are unwittingly subsidising these productions, by providing a free workforce and on top of that paying outrageous ticket prices, to see their kids on stage. Please remember parents that the Directors of these companies are all being paid extremely well and that none of these big productions could be staged without this poorly paid /free work force. I think this is a scandal that badly needs addressing. In the UK we have all been lead to believe that training at a well known and respected vocational school is the way to launch our children on the job ladder. However from all the replies, & comments on this thread this is obviously not the case. As Parents we are now expected, to finance private coaching, extra graduate /trainee years, professional photo’s, videos, competition fees / audition fees (Grands audition, YAGP Job fair, and several small companies charge a fee) costumes, travel and accommodation. Along with subsidising the big companies by providing living & travel expenses for a child working for free or very little. An impossibility for many families. Ballet has sadly once again become a career only the well off can afford. If your child is not at a top feeder school and one of the very few on the fast track to the adjoined company. It seems that private tuition and the chance to perform on the competition circuit is the only way to bag a good contract. I can think of several boys and girls that are now in top jobs whom on paper do not conform to the stipulations on their current companies audition notices. I am not saying that these kids do not deserve their contracts just that if they hadn’t had the opportunity and finances to perform on the competition circuit, they may not have even have been invited to an in person audition. The cost of competitions has already been discussed on this thread. There was an article in Pointe magazine totting up the costs, See link https://pointemagazine.com/ballet-competitions-101/ This article was written in 2018, so imagine the costs now, eye watering ! Although we as a family are very lucky to have both kids working, the pain and angst involved on the audition circuit has at times been over whelming. What is the answer, is there one ? What can we as parents do to change this toxic audition / work culture ? As parents we all want our kids to achieve their dreams, but sometimes to quote the old cliche you have to be cruel to be kind, and know when enough is enough. Sadly in most cases it turns out the rewards at the end of the Ballet Rainbow are way too few to counteract the, hard work, expense and inevitable disappointments. Would I do it all again ? On reflection, honestly no.

This was said a few years ago by David Nixon to all auditionees (of which my son was one) at the start of the audition. A few years later when another son attended the Northern Ballet audition, his friend who had travelled from abroad was kept till the end of an all day audition, only to be told by the new Director that he was too small. The boy was furious as height had been the first thing that had to be filled out on the audition form and he had spent a whole day travelling to be told something that would have been obvious from the form. This year a friend of my Son was kept to the end of the Northern audition and told that although they would like to give him a contract, there were currently none available. Directors / Companies should be transparent at audition time. Advertise auditions but make it clear if there are no contracts available and that the audition will essentially only to be an opportunity to be seen for future reference. Dancers can then decide if it is worth the money and time to attend. Canadian National Ballet were very fair in this respect, my son was invited to audition, but they made it clear that the company had no contracts available. Surely all companies, especially in this current financial climate should be as transparent.

I really wish Company directors would be honest. How hard would it have been to tell the kids that they were only looking for max 4 dancers. The general audition format now days is to fill in a form with all details send pics to show body proportions and a video with short class and two solos. If the director cannot tell from this quite detailed information who are the best candidates, then quite frankly why bother. If you are looking for 12 dancers (as was the original quota) why bring in 200. Surely the candidates could have been whittled down to maximum 25, or do directors and their assistants just not bother to look at the audition material they ask for. Know recently of kids travelling from abroad to attend invited auditions, having previously sent in all required details. Then after a long day of auditions being told that they are too tall / small. Why didn't the company read the audition form on which height is one of the first details required, thus saving these kids a great deal of money in time and travel expenses ? Northern ballet are great culprits of this, along with holding auditions " Because they are required to, to keep their grant" even when there are no jobs available. Transparency is urgently needed among those in charge.

It seems that the audition was just a marketing move. The same as using the LCB name. The blurb and the fact that the Co Director held, paid for pre audition classes at Pineapple with the carrot of being seen early and getting "pre audition feedback" definitely gave most the feeling that this would be a company of mainly new dancers. The Director even told the auditionees at the beginning of the final audition, that they were looking for 12 dancers. The whole audition culture has become toxic.

I get that there is no point in sending younger students to PDL as they already at the school of their choice. However those of graduating age are missing out on the job front. Students attending PDL get a platform to meet and network with Directors before Company audition season, students that may not even get to audition through the usual channels due to being too tall / too small (several of the boys mentioned above would be too small for most EU companies) / those that are not EU / USA citizens extra. YAGP is also being used by Directors looking for dancers. I have noticed that BRB and ENB have been bypassing their feeder schools and recruiting dancers through these channels. Although I dislike the competition culture it seems that it is now one of the only ways to bag a good job. RBS Graduating dancers that are not a shoo in to the RB company, should definitely be allowed the chance to network along with all the other talented students world wide looking for placements.

Most of the RBS 2023 graduates that went to companies outside of the UK, were not UK citizens.

As a privately funded company LCB can of course employ whomever they want. But as Pointytoes pointed out (no pun intended) Many dancers travelled from a far and spent a whole weekend auditioning, class on the Saturday and all day Sunday call backs. As Pointy toes daughter said a complete waste of time, money and energy when it is obvious that most of the new LCB dancers had been offered contracts well before the audition took place. According to dancers who attended the recall audition, it turned into a vanity project on behalf of the Director and panel who spent the entire day experimenting with their choreography whilst not affording the dancers any breaks for lunch or water throughout a very long day, 10am - 6pm. Once again young naive dancers being used as commodities. Whilst I am sure this new LCB group of dancers will be excellent, I don't think they will fill the gap left by the original LCB. I think it is wrong to pretend that this new company is carrying on the LCB legacy, a legacy which very much needs filling both for dancers and audiences alike. The Uk desperately needs a young vibrant touring company giving young UK based dancers an opportunity to get their foot on the professional ladder whilst performing quality work to audiences around the country. Having danced with the old LCB, and having had many friends that were part of the inaugural company whilst also having kids that were involved in this last LCB audition process, I think I am qualified to make these observations.

Newly formed London City Ballet, who held a two day audition for over 200 dancers last January, have just announced their company roster. Only 3 of 14 dancers are British. Of those employed only 4 attended the audition. 75% of the dancers appear to be quite mature and still employed by other companies. There is only one graduate who appears to be from Canada on the company list. What hope is there for British graduates in this country. The old London City Ballet although run by a South African, with a Prima Ballerina also from South Africa, was mainly made up of young British graduates. It was great opportunity for those who did not make it into the two main companies to garner experience and tour the Classics. This new company is London City Ballet in name only and not the Company that many were hoping would give young graduates new opportunities.

I have a class of just two Advanced 2 girls on Wednesdays @ 7.15 - 8.45pm in NW6 all details here https://www.ballettrain.com your daughter is welcome to come along and see us. Debra - Ballet Train

Completely agree with all FionaE said. Thought Chloe and MacKenzie were en par until the Contemporary when Mackenzie Brown blew everybody out of the water. Totally amazing ! And what a fabulous piece. Daichi danced beautifully but as said above there was no competition. Loved the non competing boy from Stuttgart who also danced beautifully and came across as a warm and caring partner. Found the Canadian couple to be a strange choice especially as the competition was on their home turf, felt that they really struggled through their classical piece. Interesting that with the exception of Daichi, all competitors were American.

I don't see anything new in what is being proposed by the RBS, as I would hope that any dance teacher worth their salt would already be spending some time during the term, on repertoire, music appreciation and self expression. As finding access to ballet performance videos, literature and music has never been easier, I am not really sure what the RBS is offering that isn't already available and way less expensive. To simply apply for this course the fee is £65 - no promise of getting a place. If you are accepted course fees are just shy of £6000 plus an ongoing £550 yearly membership, plus (not yet priced) a yearly 3 day mandatory CPD course. And apart from an initial 4 day face to face training period, it appears that all further training, assessments etc will be online, "to lessen the carbon footprint". Admittedly the exam/ set syllabus route can be restrictive but exams are still an important factor for many students. The majority of older students take exams to amass UCAS points or to add to the sport element of Duke of Edinburgh awards and younger students (11 plus age) need exams results to apply for dance / sport scholarships as a way into some the highly sought after private and state schools in our area. I would have loved this RBS affiliation to be something really new and innovative but sadly I don't see it as either and in my humble opinion it is not a viable option for many dance schools. I only see this working on an associate / cat scheme type blue print.

It is now so expensive to hire even the cheapest performance space in London, so it is now very hard for small local dance schools to put on a professional end of year show. As a mother of 3, I completely understand how difficult it is for parents to find extra money for costumes production fees etc. So I have always kept all our show costumes adding a few extras year by year and then recycled the rest as best we could for each different production. For our last show parents were charged a flat rate of £30 per child which included 2 tickets to the show, it seemed the fairest way. Not sure when we will be able to perform again as our school has lost a lot of students over the past two years due to lockdowns, and there is currently no way of covering costs without asking parents for a ridiculous amount in contributions.

My student took Advanced 2 at RAD headquarters this summer. On exam day due to sickness there was no pianist so accompaniment was by taped music.The day after the RAD emailed to apologize about the lack of a pianist and to ask if I would like to make a complaint directing me to the link to fill in a complaint form, which asked if there was any specific section of the exam that the student in question was disadvantaged. This student had attended an Advanced 2 exam intensive at Headquarters on the Monday through Friday before her scheduled Sunday exam. Throughout the course the students were accompanied by piano and had been told that the pianist would play to their tempo during the pointe work turn sections - specifically fouettés and turns round the room. As there was no pianist on exam day and the taped tempo was much faster than had been rehearsed, this section went particularly badly for the student in question. So as prompted this is what we put on the form. When the RAD came back to us we were told that because of the lack of pianist two special consideration marks would be awarded. However when we received the exam results this student was awarded 57 marks - generally a Merit - but not this time as result read “Standard not attained” . In both Advanced 1 and 2 the examinees now have to attain 4 out of 10 marks in each of the 10 sections of the exam to receive a Pass / Merit / Distinction regardless of the total mark. All lower RAD exams are passed on the total mark anything over 40. So hypothetically a student could pass Advanced 1 or 2 with 40 marks - gaining 4 marks in each section, but could fail Advanced 1 or 2 with 97 marks if all sections were perfect and one was marked as a three. Scrutinizing my students marks, seven sections were marked at 6 and two at 5. There was one section marked at 3 which was the very section we had pointed out on the complaint form. I contacted the RAD and asked why the Special consideration marks had not been added to the section that they were awarded for and was told that these marks can only be added to a total mark, which at Advanced level makes no difference at all to the outcome. They could have awarded 20 extra marks and the standard still would have not been attained. This makes the awarding of these marks totally nonsensical and purely virtue signaling of behalf of the RAD for something that was their fault. The student in question has loved her ballet throughout the years and this was her last exam before leaving for Uni. She is not a dancer and was doing this purely for her own satisfaction and would have been very happy to receive a pass in her last ballet exam. So failing by one mark through no fault of her own is extremely upsetting. I have made a complaint to the RAD but basically have been told that the computer says no. I would just like to know if anybody else out there teachers / parents/ students have had similar problems. I am now very angry about this and would like to take it further.

Prix was on line.

Several of my students have become bored and fed up with RBS JA/MA classes. And lockdown zoom classes certainly haven't enhanced the experience. Although the kudos of gaining a place on one of these courses is wonderful and in a few cases aids entrance into vocational schools, in general the classes are long, boring and very simple. Many JA students are at least Grade 4 level on the outside and are then treated as, and given work akin to Primary level students. I tell my students that associate classes are wonderful building blocks, giving them the opportunity to work slowly on their strength, flexibility and technique. However these children are very young and find it hard to see past the slog to the bigger picture. In the past associate teachers were all part of the RB family, ex dancers, RB trained teachers, ex RB students turned teachers. However if you look at the teachers now employed by the associate courses very few have been trained by the RB and many have no more qualifications than local ballet school teachers. My own child left half way through the first year of MA's, the classes were boring and uninspiring. The decision was never regretted.

Defeatist seems about right. Granted this is a ridiculous situation but as everybody else seems to be marching and demonstrating these days - can't all the dance companies get together and tell it how it is. Dancers careers are being shut down for a virus with a 99 per cent survival rate - CRAZY - I don't know why we are accepting this ? I know there will be people telling me that this is a selfish attitude. But quite frankly if you don't want to go back to work or go to the theatre - stay at home that is your decision. But those of us that want to get back to normality should be allowed to do so. Before it is too late. Come on Dancers / Directors lets make a stand !

Honestly who are the ethnic minorities that are upset about "the firedance" ? I would love to speak to them. It seem to me that is a certain group of white people getting upset on their behalf finding problems where there are none. Bayadere and virtually every classical ballet of this time era are basically fairy stories who on earth can be so offended ?. Should indigenous English people be upset when an oriental or Bame dancer portrays Elgar and his friends in Enigma variations ? This is all totally ridiculous there must be more to worry about - like when are the dancers ever going to get back on stage !

I find this syllabus very badly thought through. The fact that both the male and female preparation exercises are set to the same music, although entirely different steps says it all. It is case of "what can we fit to this music" rather than what is actually helpful. I am working with a student on level 4 - all sections and we find that the preparation exercises in many cases hinder rather than help - Being on different feet, different timings and in some case entirely different steps. For instance the "gargouillades" in the Sugar Plum variation are something students come across quite rarely and therefore you would think that the preparation exercise would take this into account. But no - the prep step is plain pas de chats ? Not helpful. Some of the preparation steps are almost impossible for anyone less than a professional to do on pointe and other exercises with multiple releves are very heavy going on demi pointe. The fact that on the video demo for the Odette solo - prep steps are done on flat and the solo on pointe says it all. I initially thought the Rep syllabus was a great idea for those students who would not be technically strong enough to get through Inter and Advanced but still wanted to do "proper ballet" however the class section is too easy and doesn't marry up with the solos which in most cases are too hard for the level. As others have said maybe better to mix and match, but exam wise I am not sure what that achieves - All way too complicated. Must be a nightmare for the examiners, with some examinees on pointe others on flat, how do you mark fairly and with an open mind ? - We will not be doing this syllabus next year - back to struggling through the vocational grades !

So sorry to hear your news. Have you thought about going to Europe ? Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, Zurich etc. Maybe worth a look.

RBS Boys training is no different to the girls. It is purely that there are fewer boys coming in from abroad and therefore the Director has more boys places to give.

We are on the audition circuit at the moment and it is indeed very expensive, brutal and toxic. Most European companies will only audition students of specific heights, boys under 5'11 are generally not even seen regardless of talent, same goes for girls that are too small, seems that 5"5 is the desired height, but the poor girls get it at both ends as they can't be too tall either. It would appear from our recent experiences that height is now more important than talent ! If you get over the height hurdle and receive an invite to audition, it is in most cases a cattle market. With students (even those from the top schools) being routed out before the end of the classical class. Most companies are now asking for dance photos and videos of classical class and solos, as a pre assessment, presumably as not to waste the time of students that are an obvious non fit for their company. However from what we have witnessed over the past few weeks it would appear that most of these company's hadn't given these videos a second glance. It has been bad enough for us, residing in Europe, but others travelled from much further a field, only to be told goodbye and thank you after only half an hour of class. Three times one of my DC having survived to the end of a full days audition - classical class, pas de deux, repertoire, has been told that he is too classical as the company in question would only be doing Contemporary rep for the forseeable future. Surely this could have been stated on the audition notice, and in the case of my DC it should have been very obvious from his audition video that he is a very classical dancer. That is frustrating enough, but having survived to the end of auditions for two of the most prestigious German companies, one said that they hadn't decided wether they wanted, classical or contemporary dancers or those that could do both (why hold an audition until you know what you are auditioning for), and the other company's director didn't look up from his phone throughout the whole process, Both company's told those that made it to the end of the audition day - 4 cuts in all, that they would email with news good or bad, within two weeks - 6 weeks later we are still waiting, along with the others that my DC knew from those auditions. After 3 weeks my DC emailed both companies to ask for news and one of the company's as to wether it would be worth re auditioning (as this company had started advertising another batch of auditions) but never heard another word from either one. One of our UK companies told all auditionees as they walked into the studio on audition day, that they had no contracts but for grant purposes had to hold annual auditions - Disgusting behaviour ! Not one company audition notice states the terms of the contracts available so in the main auditionees are competing for a job with no knowledge of what they are actually auditioning for or if the job in question even pays. The elation of being offered a contract can soon wear thin when you find out that the only contracts available are for apprenticeships and the pay amounts to 300 euros a month ! This seems to be happening more and more. Even one of the better known junior companies only offers first year members 1100 euros a month, hardly enough to survive on in a major city, unless you have rich parents. Quite frankly it is little more than exploitation on behalf of these company's, a cheap and easy way to fill their ranks, None of the big European company's can perform the well known classical ballets without junior company / trainees and affiliated school students to swell their ranks. The school students (although of course gaining valuable experience) are usually paid zilch - this is the case at Het Nationale and the RB and no doubt many other companies. In my day the RBS students were paid by performance, even for walk on roles - So much for improvements ! It would just be nice if some of these companies could at least show a little bit of respect to the dancers that travel so far and work so hard and stop the exploitation of hard working students. I guess what I am trying to say, is that the worry surrounding schools, assessments and training is just the beginning, as the stress and the considerable financial strain seems to be never ending. It is definitely, definitely not for the faint hearted.

As said in various posts above, many talented Uk dancers often with 5 years of vocational training under their belt are being totally squeezed out at the higher levels. The top vocational schools in this country have no qualms about advertising their world wide auditions on all social media outlets.To the uninitiated it would seem that there is a dire need to fill spaces in these schools, but as parents and teachers on this forum know the situation is the exact opposite. I have personally been through the horrible, gut wrenching experience of assessments with both my own children and my students. We too have listened to their teachers tell us that the chance of them getting places at the Upper level of training, would solely depend on the amount of places available after the Director had given places to foreign students (again before the schools own assessments). I can not help but wonder how these teachers can allow their students to be callously tossed aside year after year without questioning themselves and the training afforded to these students. My heart goes out to all parents and students currently going through this. The sad truth is that the training in our lower schools is not up to international standards and for many years several of our schools have simply got by on their brand names. Many parents of lower school students come to realise this quiet quickly but are caught in a catch 22 situation. If only enough parents could get together and protest, things could change, however as the ballet world is so small and parents are petrified to mess up any chance their child may have, this will never happen. I made a fuss towards the end of my child's training (we had nothing to lose as we had already made the decision to go elsewhere) but even with only one month of schooling left, I was hauled up in front of the Director like a naughty school child and literally told to get back into line if I wanted my child to graduate and perform at the end of the year. Still haven't gotten over this experience ! It is so sad that this same topic rears its ugly head year after year.