Sadielou

Another reflection on exam marks - just wonder if any of you out there feel the same. In my day (many years ago) There were 5 tiers. Pass, Pass Plus, Commended, Highly Commended and Honours. I do feel that with just the three tiers and especially with Merit having such a wide mark margin, it is now all a bit vague. There is after all a huge gap between 55 and 74 marks. I now hear all the time teachers saying that their students received a High Merit, which as we know does not actually exist, but obviously there is a need to clarify.

Totally agree hfbrew,. Over the years I have entered several students for exams that have been borderline. But they were so determined, to try that I felt that they should be given the opportunity to enter. In all of these cases these students have made me so proud even if they only got a pass mark. It was a huge achievement for them, more so than those that were obviously more talented and didn't need to work as hard to get a Merit or Distinction. I just wish their parents could appreciate this and not feel that their child is a failure if they are not Merit / Distinction material.

This has become a huge money making operation, which I feel is very unfair on those poor students and parents that apply year after year, only to get that faint glimmer of hope of "Waiting list" which appears to mean little or nothing. If said person is making all the decisions how much easier, fairer and less expensive (for all involved) would it be if there was an extra SS tick box on the WL, US, MA, SA, JA audition forms. As many of SS applicants are either already associates or auditioning to become associates and the same person is at all these auditions why can't SS also be part of the audition equation. It would also only be sensible to have a list of associate SS applicants and speak to the relevant associate teachers and get their opinion, as to wether their students would benefit from a week or two at SS (would hope that, this was a discussion that was happening anyway).There would then be far fewer photos and application forms to sift through and whoever is making the decisions at photo level would have more time to make informed decisions. Only a thought !

Two of the private auditionees were directly related to the AD and his staff. Very unfair, nobody minds when all go through the same process, but when there are different rules for some ? with all these complaints re RBS auditions, surely there should be an enquiry to the governing body. The RBS has got away with too much for far too long, it is about time they were answerable to a few questions.

I also thought that having the two lower school pieces was totally unnecessary even though I had a DC performing in one of the pieces. The lack of 1st and 2nd year students involved overall was really worrying, especially for those making their way to the US next year, there is little enough opportunity as it is to learn the art of performance. Although I thought all the featured students, danced beautifully, I thought it was great shame that they couldn't have showcased some of the other Grads. I think a good Director is one that can see the talent in front of him and arrange a programme of pieces that showcases as many as possible at their best, not just the few, who immediately stand out.

In answer to Aileen 1 Are you sure about that ? I think if you look closer you will see that this simply isn't true 2 Look where most of these "Graduates" have really been trained. 3 Of course not 4 Because they are better trained in both stage / competition / audition technique and know what companies and schools are looking for. 5 The reality of professional life has been made clear. But life outside the RBS institution has not.

Those students that have jumped through numerous hoops and somehow managed to survive 8 years training (not easy) are definitely good enough and certainly deserve to find corps de ballet jobs in this country. The shortage occupation list is a joke. Certainly the kids at the RBS (can't speak personally for anywhere else) work their arses off, but are not being given the training and tools needed to shine amongst their foreign counterparts. Somebody has to decide a proper training plan because right now it is all over the place. Seems to me that both school and company directors have no clue what they want/need and are scared to stick by their own students (or training), feeling more comfortable with those that have trained elsewhere and have already been given the thumbs up from an international jury. English schools also need to start educating students about foreign schools and companies both in Europe and worldwide. Our RBS students literally have no clue what goes on outside the RB and are given no help when it comes to auditions for foreign companies or schools. Our forward planning talk at the RBS consisted of an out of date list of British schools, no European schools where mentioned at all. Any parent with no Dance background would have no idea that, there are some fantastic European schools, and Companies out there, that are accessible to our kids. Many of the WL RBS kids still think that there is no dancing life outside the RBS / RB and when the inevitable happens and the school places and company jobs are given to those from abroad, the students are left with no clue where to turn. It is a very sad state of affairs.

Statistics are correct as have lived through the ups and downs of this very turbulent 5 years with this group of children and I know very well how all the parents and children are feeling at the moment. In reply to Flora, many of the White Lodgers sadly do have this skewed idea that RBS is the only place to a train and anywhere else is second best. Sadly many of our group felt that if they were not offered RBS US then that would be the end for them. Luckily my DC feels the opposite and has decided to turn down the RBS place in favour of a place abroad, where we feel that my DC will be appreciated and nurtured, every child is different and I think it is more important to go somewhere with a positive atmosphere where you feel that you can learn and grow, rather than just going for the "Name"

These are the RBS year 11 statistics which when put together make pretty sad viewing. 6 girls from White Lodge have been offered places at the Upper School. From the original 13 intake in year 7 only 3 of these original girls will be carrying on to RBS - one girl from the year 8 intake has been offered a place, one girl from abroad, year 10 intake and one from abroad year 11 intake ( YAGP competition winner). Throughout the 5 years, 8 girls have been assessed out, 5 have not been offered Upper School and 3 have decided to quit dance in year 11 to follow a different route. That is a total of 16 girls not carrying on with RBS training. 6 Boys have been offered Upper School places all from original year 7 intake of 12. Throughout the 5 years 3 boys have been assessed out, i quit in year 10 and 4 have not been offered Upper School places. One boy is turning down his Upper school place in favour of training elsewhere. That is a total of 9 boys not carrying on with RBS training. Huge congratulations to those that have been offered places, but to those that haven't please remember that the RBS is definitely not the only route to a successful career.

Totally agree with you Melody. Not only has the RBS US taken the cream of the competition crop again this year (which has become par for the course.) There are now two YAGP medal winners at WL. Is this so the Director can now massage the WL success figures? after all they have been doing it for years at the US. Makes me sad that the British trained dancers (who stand little or no chance of RB Company places) do not get the opportunity to network other schools and Companies, like our foreign counterparts. The Australian schools / teachers seem happy enough to help their charges on their career path why can't the British kids have the same opportunities. In my humble opinion, this stock explanation of not having enough time in the vocational training programme is just a weak excuse. I feel that the powers that be are too scared that their training / teaching maybe exposed on the world stage and not looked on as favourably on as they may wish.

Of course the dream doesn't have to end and I am quite sure that those that want to carry on will do so. and hopefully, show those in charge at the RBS what they missed. I just think that it is beyond disgusting that the RBS think so little of the students that they have trained for the last 5 years. And I don't think it is sensationalist to be disgusted that this is the way the RBS treat their students when only 7 from 24 are given places. Very sad for all those involved feel for both students and parents alike.

So disgusted to find out that only 3 girls and 4 boys of the current year 11 White Lodge have been given places at the RBS Upper School. Doesn't say much about White Lodge training. Very sad for all those kids who have been told they are not classical enough for further training. Let's hope lessons are being learned and things are going to change dramatically over the next few years otherwise quite frankly what is the point of the RBS Junior school.

Boys are a complete different entity to girls and I have really enjoyed teaching the odd one or two that come my way as they have always been so enthusiastic and willing to learn. Must say I get very annoyed at the lack of ballet wear for boys, there are mountains of choices for girls, but on most of the dance wear sites there is not even a boys section, they are just thrown into the mens section which is also very small. Come on dance wear companies boys need choice too !

If any of you get the "Yes" letter then it is definitely something to celebrate, it is a wonderful thing to be one of the chosen few. Please note that I did say at the beginning of my original post that Mr Powney has been in the job a very short time so there is every chance that he will implement a totally new regime and we will see a change for the good, but of course it will take time. No doubt those in year 7 WL and those coming into year 7 will have a totally different experience to us. Being at the upper end of the school we have had a total change of boarding regime twice, a complete change of those in charge on the Educational side and of course a total change of the ballet regime, all some what unsettling. We also, as a year group were left reeling when 8 of our year were assessed out last Feb, of course a couple were expected but the rest were a total shock. That is why and I hope he sticks to it, that Mr Powney has promised that the assessment process will be far more open this year. If your child gets into WL that is a fantastic achievement, but know that some of the other schools offer just as good training and if you are lucky enough to be offered more that one school, you should go with your heart and which school you really feel is the best place for child to grow up and be nurtured. Do not just be swayed by the kudos of the RBS name. Every child and experience is different.

In answer to your question amos 73 I do have a DC at the school as well as some students, and yes it is extremely frustrating to see and hear what is going on from the perspective of both a teacher and a parent. I know my Dc has/had huge potential as well as a lovely dance quality. The dance quality has all but disappeared and when asked to perform a simple role in my local ballet school Xmas workshop my DC was petrified because quote "I'm not good enough" The truth is students who are now in year 10 WL have NEVER throughout their whole time at WL performed classically on stage, unless you count the Defile which although lovely is truly blink and you miss. Otherwise all we have seen them do is Morris, Hungarian, Russian, Irish and Scottish, and this year I think we have Spanish to look forward to. Mr Powney was questioned about this lack of performance in a recent meeting and he said that " it was difficult for the school to find something that the students could perform classically as they were not always ready" whatever that means? very scary for us local dance teachers who bi-annually put children onstage dancing classically. If the 12 best in the country can't do it, perhaps we should give up now! The question that followed was "Wouldn't it then be very difficult for the WL students when they graduated to their various Upper schools and were put into competition with those who had performed throughout their training years, to come up to the same level of performance as their new counterparts"? This question was not answered ! It was said however that Liam Scarlet is to choreograph a ballet for the whole school, we shall see, I shall be very interested to see who is chosen to do the main roles, if it is those children that have already had performing experience, it will be case and point. I know last year that Mr Scarlet chose a girl fresh from the Prix de Lausanne (2nd yr Upper school who had only been at the school for a term and half) to do the main role in his Upper school ballet. If I was a choreographer I too would pick the student that "performed the best" why or why then don't the RBS staff acknowledge this and make it an integral part of their training. Nobody is asking for flashy solos or 3 act ballets, just something that gives the children in the RBS Outreach words "A Chance to Dance" before it is too late.

Mr Powney has only been in the job a very short time so I guess we should give him a chance and see what develops. He has said he will be far more open with parents and children re assessments and the child's potential to carry on in this business, but we will no know how this pans out till February. He also said that he will take British students first and places will only be given to foreign students if places are available. Although this sounds encouraging it is of course totally subjective as to who deserves a place or not, two foreign children (both excellent competition dancers who can be seen on you tube) have started at White Lodge this January which seemed to totally contradict his former comment as he cannot know yet how good the British children are who will be auditioning for places this month. The saddest thing is that the kids at WL work their arses off for little or no praise they are constantly being told they are not good enough are bombarded in this day and age with you tube videos of wonder kids and now have them on their door step. When these brilliant kids turn up at WL or the Upper School the same teachers that have have spent hours on placing and turnout are suddenly drooling over the expertise of these new kids, and have been quoted to say to their old charges, "Why can't you do this" The simple answer should be "Because you won't allow us to do it and haven't trained us to do it" The RBS have supposedly chosen the 12 best children of what ever age group and gender in the country, who it should follow have the facility and potential to be moulded in to the dancers that the RBS are looking for. In my opinion what Mr Powney should be looking at, is what his staff are teaching and seriously considering what sort of Dancers they are churning out and decide once and for all what they really want to see. If the case was that the staff at the RBS made a point of saying to their current students that "child X can do multiple tricks and perform brilliantly, but doesn't have your placing and technique, which is what we at RBS are striving for" perhaps the current students could comprehend why they are spending hours over the simplest little tendu. But this is of course not the case, and current students are becoming despondent, several to the stage of giving up dancing altogether because they "don't see the point and don't love it anymore" Which is extremely sad. I also think that when the Graduate job list is published the school should be made to admit how long these Graduates actually trained with the RBS, as I know the list would then not look quite so favourable on the school and its training.

afab, i notice that you are located in France, I do think that those from abroad as Kat09 has said have more chance of getting a place than those from UK you just have to look at attendant list. Have been to watch SS many times and maybe this year was different as I wasn't there and can't comment but INMHO it is a lottery. But regardless my original point was that there maybe quite a few students who would have loved a chance to audition/re audition for a WL/US place and as they were not chosen for SS didn't get this opportunity. The audition process comprises of (virtually) the same photos and questionnaire but regardless all get a chance to audition. Just trying to say that there maybe a few students that for what ever reason couldn't audition in Feb or some that may have improved / changed greatly since Feb, also know of several students that were assessed out and left in Feb that would have loved the chance to re audition for the new WL hierachy. Just don't think it is a level playing field, but I guess that's life!

RBS SS is done by photo and questionnaire, I know of may excellent dancers who have never been lucky enough to get a place.

Think this is a very difficult subject, really feel for Elmhurst as I know personally how hurtful it is when a student you have nurtured ups and leaves for pastures greener, however also understand that having the RBS on your CV holds a lot of kudos and to receive an offer offer of a place would be very difficult to turn down. Do think however that if auditions are to be held then it should be publicised and not just open to those lucky enough to get a SS place. Would be more understandable if the SS itself was by audition but as it is literally (for girls especially) a lottery how can this be fair ? INMHO our audition. assessment process could do with a complete overhaul, because of our senior school selection process getting earlier and earlier as the years go on, students are being accepted for vocational places a full 7 months before the start of their training, this is a huge chunk of a child's life. A student turning up for training in September could have an entirely different body to the child seen in February. Several years in a row students have been accepted for yr 9 places entered the school in September only to be told in February that they are not suitable. The heartache is immense and surely could have been avoided if the students where auditioned nearer to the time of entry. So perhaps SS auditions are a good idea, but should be for all.

Ellie, I am also a former vocational student, ex dancer and have DC at vocational school and although I agree that versatility is a big plus and that National / Character dances are traditional fare, I do not believe that the younger children are not capable of showing some ballet. I don't know one child at my DC's school that went there solely to do, or wants a career in National dancing and yes I know that these dances pop up in various classical ballets and therefore the children should be able to understand and adapt to these styles but I also know that their confidence is being knocked year in year out as they feel that their teachers do not think that they are good enough to perform anything classical on stage. In my era the lower part of the Junior school had a ballet especially choreographed for them ( a good choreographer should be able to show even the youngest students at their best ) one year it was the "Water Babies" another " Jeux D'Enfant and another was"The Golden Goose" starring Jonathan Cope and yes there was also the National dances, but not in such abundance. It seems now that giving the children character dancing is an easy get out clause, yes they are well rehearsed and yes it is still hard work, but after a whole years training the students really need to feel that they have achieved something balletically and be given the chance to show this however small the role. They also need to feel that the ballet staff have faith in them. As far as seeing the same old faces goes, of course the students that are most suitable for a role should be the ones to do it, however isn't that when the teaching staff need to be clever and schedule pieces that suit a range of age groups and dancers so that more students get a chance to dance. At the end of the RB ROH performance all the students come on for the Defile. Which students get the biggest cheer? obviously the Graduates, but very closely followed by the Year 7's who always look adorable and immaculate, which shows what you can do with very simple steps. Enough said.

RB school Friday and Saturday afternoon programme Scottish: yr 9 Suite of Character Dances: all yr groups Giselle Pas de Six: yr 11 Irish: yr 8 Morris: yr 10 Irish: yr 9 Student Chore: yr 11 Student Choreo: yr 11 Encuentro (Castilla): yr 10 A suite of Dances from the English repetoire including Checkmate: yr 11 Facade: yr 11 Solitaire pas de deux: 2nd yr Upper School La Fille: yr 10 & 11 En Bateau: yr 11 Sudent Choreo: yr 8 Student Chore: yr 9 Jubilation (Castilla/Van Schoor): yr 11 All students danced very well, however yet again only yr 10 & 11 showed any ballet. With all the upheaval and changes going on at the RB I am sure it has been very difficult for all this year, however in my humble opinion it seemed like a vey lazily put together programme and far from inspiring for the younger half of the school.

Totally agree CouldDoBetter. I know it is a terrible thing to say (when they have been given such a great opportunity) but the kids are bored of doing the same old thing, they should be really excited at this time of year with performances looming, but instead they are all beginning to think that they are not good enough to do any ballet and have become resigned to the "we are only doing character" scenario. As parents, although of course we are desperate to see our children perform, we are also slightly fed up with it too !

Think performance is an essential part of our kids training and wish there was more of it. Very sad that for the last three years, all we get to see our year group perform is Character, Irish and Scottish, all very nice but would be nice to see them in a ballet piece, as that is after all what they went to vocational school to study.

Aileen I agree totally, however if you read back the posts on this stream some of the parents of the more serious dancers are the ones that get frustrated and don't understand when a non serious DC is put on the stage and doesn't look of a standard they deem as "good" after which they write that particular school off as not being of a high standard. As I said in my post, in my opinion any child with talent will do better at a full time vocational school as most schools in the UK (there are exceptions) are really catering for those children that are dancing as a hobby, and as those children are generally in the majority it is very difficult to give the talented child what they need in that particular environment. The point I was trying to make was that regardless of wether a child is dancing for a hobby or to make it a career, it is frustrating that some parents ( not all ) do not look more carefully into the quality of the teaching rather than going somewhere that is simply on the right day and time, even if it is just a hobby.